Well, I didn't know if I would get many responses from this question. I am pleased.
MM, you asked me to post a little more. Please don't lose patience with me but I want to post a LOT more.
My W and I do ML, sometimes more often than others, but from reading the first chapter of SSM (I've ordered the book and am REALLY looking for to it arriving), it appears that frequencey and quality are both important. Despite the fact we 'ML' if that is what it can be called, I have felt for years very cut off, unfulfilled, and just plain not loved much. My spouse has given me so many confusing signals that I don't have a clue what is going on inside of her head. I have come to conclude as well that she probably doesn't know either. She is awash with emotions, and I am just an 'oversexed bastard.'
Before we got married 15 years ago, she had a friend who told her that 'when my husband wants sex and I don't, I just rub his penis for him and that takes care of it.' So, she went into marriage believing that the HJ was the answer to intimacy if she didn't want it. It was like an out for her to not face issues, not nurture this aspect of marriage, and not even need to contemplate sex in any way.
We married and the S was great for about 2 months. Then the children came along (we both wanted to bring little ones into the home and didn't feel like waiting would gain us anything), and the S went to H.!!. Because of the environment I live in, I have been influenced by my own family, by her family, and by others around that S was something "a real man controls and respects his wife's desired to refuse if she doesn't want it." Well, I bought that line and it is a terrible and sinister lie for me. So, for all of these years, I have felt like a freek because I have these desires and they don't just go away. About 6 years ago, is discovered porn. At the time I thought it was just me and if I could give that up and take better control of myself to respect my wife and NOT express or expect any sexual desires outside of the rules she set, then I would be a 'real man' and would not feel pulled into porn. I gave it up, went for some time with some good control, but the natural desires I felt didn't go away.
About this time, (and the resentments were going STRONG long before this), the resentments and anger I started to feel toward her intensified. She would continue to give me HJ when I asked, but I felt like it was 'oh, I can't wait until you just ejaculate and this gets over so I can get back to my television show'. This has continued to happen since our marriage began and the S went to H.!!. We were still ML during this time, but the action was VERY routine, not very passionate, and very 'sanitized' with refusal to try new things and see if it could be spiced up.
About every month or two, my anger would bubble over, I would get pissed at everyone and everything, and usually have a blow out fight with my wife. It would push her away, make me an unsafe person, and give her a reason to only give me HJ and not ML, or if we do ML, to treat it as a suspicious and dangerous activity. (By the way, I have never hit her, haven't raised my voice at her in many years, and have not refused to pay bills, make sure she has money sufficient for her needs, etc. Nor have I taken it out on the children for many years. At one time I did and I have since repaired that damage completely and have a wonderful relationship with each child.)
Sometimes I have felt the resentment, have felt that asking her for S would make me 'needy and not a real man', (which is how I feel often with her. I don't think its all me. I think she communicates that to me.) and as in such times, I am ripe to violate my morals. I have on those occasions rebelled against everything, have gone out and looked a porn both media and live, and even spend three evenings with a prostitute.
I learned a thing or two from that whole experience. ML between two people who love each other involves spiritual, physical, emotional, and erotic components. Its like being in a desert and not only getting a cold drink of water, but also getting to sit in a lawn chair, have a cold drink, have some shade, and having an air conditioner on you all at the same time. When I acted out with the prostitutes, it wasn't what I wanted. It was physical and somewhat erotic but there was NOT ONE BIT of emotional or spiritual connection. In fact, those areas inside of me were damaged. There is no happiness in sex outside of marriage for me. It might give me a really satisfying sexual encounter but I would still be starving since the emotional and spiritual connections inside of me would be destroyed.
Well, I've done everything I can to withdraw from those porn and sexual escapades, and have made full and complete confessions to my wife and have taken steps to try to rebuild and repair the damage. She didn't want S befor these events though and still doesn't. Back to the old HJ routine.
Still feeling defective I went to a Sexaholics Anonymous meeting and tried to embrace the program. Their approach teaches that sexuality is completely optional and if you follow the plan, it is something that can even be given up to a higher power. They teach that it is possible to have a stable and somewhat healthy relationship with someone without having any expectation whatsoever for sexual union or even for non sexual effection. I have tried repeatedily to adopt that approach but the desire does not go away and it is just a matter of time before the anger bubbles and a blow up happens. It is also just a matter of time with my frustation patterns over these 15 years before I throw in the towel, accept defeat and decide that there is no help for me. Get the Big D and try to find someone who accepts me as something other than a 'real man' and want to have sexual union with me that contains all of the wonderful components I desire and even crave.
Well, I have discovered another aspect in these 15 years that could also be a way to cope, but not a healthy way. I am aware that if I lose weight, there is a point where it effect testosterone and kills ones libido. Combining that with a SSRI drug would take my libido and push it far away, making it a distant whisper that is easily snuffed whenever necessary. This is an EXTREME approach, but might be necessary. Right now I reject all of the 'real man' as a pill of bull s..t, I feel angry at my family or origin and even more angry at my inlaws for the lies they have intentionally or unintentionally fed me, and I feel anger at my spouse. Right at this moment, as I write this, I do not love her. I think I could say I land more on the hate side. But, I DO love my children and know that the Big D would destroy them. So, that in its self is enough motivation for me to do something. I have to. I can't continue going like this and having the feelings I have inside. Feeling hatred is a horrible thing: It destroys my ability to work, my ability to love my children like then need, and even my ability to think. Wherever this path leads, forgiveness is going to have to become my middle name, but that has to be balanced with requiring respect from those I forgive. I refuse to be a door mat any longer to people and their stupid ideas.
Why did I start this thread? Sometimes my wife hugs me, and it can be a little sensual. I kiss her sensually in return and I feel all of the boundries go up. She then explains to me that she doesn't want every hug to turn into a sexual overature. Well, she never hugs me for sexual overature and so I should know this by now, but I have to push her away because she doesn't desire any sexual union, and so how am I suppose to deal with her coming over, turning me on, and then reminding me 'hey, I am a woman and you are a man. You have a penis that just grew. But, Its my body and you can't have any of it!' Its maddening.
My sister rebelled against the family moral values when she was in highschool. She has a good relationship with everyone in the family but lives her own life the way she pleases. She is also VERY sexual in how she dresses and acts, as well as with how she dates. She got married at one time but for good reasons, got divorced. During that marriage I know that her spouse was NEVER put in a position to feel a need to look outside of marriage to get his needs satisfied. She was willing, able, and even enjoyed being there and getting down and dirty. They had a very hot and erotic love affair for years. This sister is the complete contrast of every other female in my family and my wife's family, as well as my only brother's wife. Its like S is this big evil thing you NEVER talk about, and its something the women tolerate because they have to or their men will not be there for the other things they want. The whole thing is a confusing issue and just makes me sick. I feel stupid and angry that I have bought it for so long myself.
Boy of boy, do I have a lot of work to do on myself let alone my relationship with my W.
Congrats to anyone who reads through this whole mind dump. It felt good writing it all out.
