Hi all, I posted yesterday but it didn't make it. I think I said that after my post about ridding myself of unwanted weight by cutting it off...Bets called me to make sure I woudlnt' cut of arms and legs (the better to keyboard with). She gave me lots of good info on Slim4Life, made me laugh and made me cry when she said I was beautiful just the way I was. (She says I'm CURVY). Thanks all for giving me some warnings bout drugs and exercise sites. The Cortisol isn't a drug...it is all natureal and not an appetite suppresant in it. But I've gained weight while taking it so I will take advantage of its money back guarantee! I do exercise, tho 1/2 hour on treadmill even at 10% and 4.0 isn't near enough for me to maintain. I need about 2 hours a day and I set myself up for that by being an athelete long ago and then doing a stupid thing after pregnancy to lose that weight FBO X who 'couldn't handle my gaining weight during the pregnancy'. But I guess it is the stess of trial and not knowing my future financial sitch ...its been too long and too hard and somedays it is just too , too, much.
Bets has a tendency to read this into my posts and gives me a call or sends a telepathic hug...
Hey Pen, you should know that Wonder Woman who is an old timer and sometimes posts on MLC was also an OW. ANd she has had some guilt and remorse too. Then she became a victim of the MAN she was OW to...so I guess she knows it from both angles. I think it good of you to let us know, and I know it must have been hard for you to do, to take that risk in telling us. While I could never be an OW, I also know that none of us is guiltfree.
Well Bets, I'm having so much fun listening to trail tapes and trying to transcribe them. THis sucks so bad. Shoud my book be The Neverending Divorce? Or How to Collect a Million Bucks in One Easy Lesson aka Name Your Poison. gd
Betsey, thanks for the encouraging words, and the cyber hug (I needed it). I’d braced myself for flying tomatoes, and instead encounter only generosity and understanding. It’s wonderful that you have a friend in Triple J with many similar qualities as Mr W, because I know how a) a male perspective and b) the perspective of someone who’s actually “been there” himself can be invaluable.
Life is full of hard lessons, and for me, this experience was mainly a lesson in humility. I’ve been known to tout far and wide how I would “never” do this or “never” do that – and slam I was in the middle of an emotional mess I never expected to be in, with no elegant way out. I do believe that our actions define us to a certain extent, some more than others, and I shall have to live with the consequences. This isn’t all of who I am, but it’s part of me, and it is my responsibility to learn from it, and undo what harm I can.
Triple J – you ask an interesting question, and one that deserves an answer. When we met, my h told me that his marriage was over, and they were only together because of the kids (D14, S9, and S7). He said he’d married her when she was pregnant, quickly found that they didn’t have much in common, but stayed because he loved his daughter (and later his other children). He was an unusually involved father, just as you seem to be. Over the years, he increasingly questioned the marriage, tried for a while to encourage common interests, but never really able to find any. She’s a morning person, he a night man. She’s a social person, he’s a loner. There was a big gap in their respective IQs and education. They literally had nothing to talk about. When he came home from work, they’d cook dinner, and then she’d go to bed. She wasn’t affectionate towards him. Her life resolved around her children. He never painted her as a bad person, in fact as a woman with many admirable qualities, but as an ill match for him. He thought it a bad marriage, and believed she felt the same way.
Thus the story as presented to me. I’ve been able to substantiate pretty much all of it, either through personal observation, or through involuntary comments the children made. He's a just man. The one error of judgment he made was to think she also considered it a bad marriage – she didn’t. She was terribly upset when she found out he was involved with someone else. She cried, begged and pleaded. Another thing he’s not is ambivalent – he offered to stay for the sake of the children, she said she wanted him to stay because of her, otherwise he should leave. He left.
I don’t know how “hard” he tried to find an emotional connection to her before calling it quits – I wasn’t there. But I've yet to see him bend the facts to paint himself in a better light. Let’s assume he has tried all he could– is it sufficient to say “I am and always will be incompatible with this person” to leave? There was no physical/substance abuse, and the children were happy. They’ve adjusted, but are less happy than before. He says he’s happier. I’m happier. His ex-wife is stable, but certainly not happier.
Is it worth it? Not for us as individuals, but as a “whole picture”? I hope so, but I honestly don’t know. I suppose time will tell.
I don't know if I've really answered your question, but I tried to be honest as best I could. Feel free to follow up if you need more information.
GD1, thank you too, and stay away from Cortislim unless you’re looking for a sedative. It’s mainly Magnolia bark, which helps against anxiety in animal models, but doesn’t do anything for (or against) excess pounds.
I’m a long time lurker who has recently poked his head up from the underbrush and just wanted to say that I really appreciate your willingness to share your situation with all.
You must know that your words touch so many beyond those who actually post to your thread, but just in case you had forgotten I wanted to just say a quick “thank you!”
Hope I can one day be considered a “friend” to this thread, although with your generosity I’m sure I already am!
I know you are really looking forward to D10 coming home! Enjoy her when she arrives!
Your sitch reminds me of my sister and BIL. An awful lot. My 3x married BIL is my really good friend now (and brother of my heart) and a really good man who has made mistakes. We spent many hours last month talking about issues like this.
He married W1 a few days after they graduated high school--she was pregant with their 1st son and their families expected them to make their union honest and legal. They stayed married long enough to have son 2 before they both decided they were not meant to be married.
She still frustrates him, but says she is now the mother the boys needed (he was granted sole custody), and has really been a mother now that the boys have grown. W1 had substance abuse issues and the courts felt the boys were better off with him. He did a great job too.
However, he was young, working many hours and trying to be the best dad he could. He married W2 for companionship and to help him raise them. Unfortunately, this R was troubled from the start. W2 suffered tremendous self esteem issues, and because of how she saw herself, instead of building herself up, tried to tear everyone around her down. Including the boys. When my BIL wanted to go to college, she told him he was not smart and not to waste his money. During the 12 years they were married, she put on 100 lbs and when he got in shape (he has diabetes from a motorcycle accident he was in at the age of 17), she got MEAN.
I met BIL when my sister took me on a tour of their plant (they are both in the automotive manufacturing industry) and they were friends. I knew the moment I laid eyes on him that he was special and that his feelings for her went way beyond friendship. She was dating his boss at the time... I kept my mouth shut because I really felt a compelling need to see how this would play out.
It was difficult for both of them. My sister ultimately became OW. To his credit, he told my sister that he had an obligation to work on his M and cut off contact with my sister. Both of them were beyond devastated. After 4 months of attempting to get W2 to agree to changes, he admitted defeat.
My sister and BIL are happily married now, and just celebrated their 2nd anniversary. His boys still keep in touch with W2, but have told their dad on many occasions that she is a miserable person who doesn't want to be happy. They embrace my sister wholeheartedly, because for the first time in their lives, they see their dad happy. With his diabetes being very serious, his health is a major concern.
He also had tears in his eyes when he told me how grateful he was for my sister's support when he decided to go to college. He graduated last December, with high honors.
Ironically, his older sister made some snotty comments about how he could never do anything right, particularly marriage. She said it aloud in the middle of the ceremony. My parents, Mr. Wonderful and I all felt really bad for him. Since then, his dad has become really sick, and his stepmother has wreaked havoc in their lives--the kids had to band together and he and his sister are friends for the first time ever. His sister credits my sister for her unwavering support--and admits that he never had that from W2.
He's a truly wonderful guy who made mistakes. I suspect your H is somewhere in that category as well.
At some point in my adult life, I began to adopt the Native American mantra, "Never judge a man unless you walk a mile in his moccasins."
Add another on top: "Nothing is ever what it seems."
We all have pasts, Pen. There is stuff I will not likely share with any human being because of the shame I feel in retelling things. I've been absolved by God, myself and in the formality of the confessional. I've lived with the sins and dealt with the consequences. But they don't take away the shame. So I understand that concept awfully well.
Feel free to dump here, at whatever level you are comfy. I guess you have figured out that we (Monica, Rachel and Phoebe) tend to be drawn to controversy... I think working through controversy is a good way to practice validation and other worthwhile DB skills, and if we can personalize these issues, they foster more understanding, compassion and empathy.
And face it, we can all use more work in that department.
Have a great weekend!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Welcome! I don't know where my pals are? I think part of it is that I have had lots of difficulties with MSN/Hotmail this week, so I haven't had any success during the day in e-mailing them. Though my internet access is undisturbed. (I have a trouble ticket in, so hopefully resolution soon).
I think we can allow you to become a Friend! Chandler (Renew4Me) hasn't posted in a really long time, but Joey (SeattleHopeful) pokes his head in from time to time. We don't have any candidate for Ross?
I think Pam told me a little about you. You post in separated? I'll have to head over there and check in...
I miss my buddies!!!! I'll make my apology for not being in touch. This dumb problem has also affected my IM capabilities at work, and it ticks me off! Hopefully, it will be ironed out soon.
I hope to have something decent to post after tonight. We'll see. Maybe I'll even post if it's boring as watching grass grow...
Take care and have a great weekend!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Hey Pen...you are right about the Magnolia bark.Fess up, are you a chemist, biologist????? Yep, if there is sedative qualities at all for me (part human) then I will tend to gain weight if anything...and yes, I have. So back it goes!
DISCLAIMER: I reread what I wrote re Wonder Woman and realized that it sounded like her H (he of whom she was once OW) had left her....That isn't true.They had a rough spot BUT they are doing well now, I am happy to say. Sorry bout that. ANd WW posted her sitch in MLC, but I guess it really wasn't my place to repeat her telling, so I apologize for bringing up a name...that was indiscreet of me. (Luckily, WW is way cool and she won't hold it agin me ) So, Bets...kidling is back home. I hope my kidling comes home soon too, though she is strangely quiet these days. JUST IN FROM FRIEND LAWYER: the bad guy lawyer (Xs) called and wanted to know if we could make an offer so that I get the house and X 'gets something'. I tried to warn friend lawyer that this man (Xs lawyer) is a gameplayer and will try to dupe her. But then she yelled at me, said some mean stuff. She is a patent lawyer, and a neighbor and doing this basically pro bono. So, I chose to say I needed to get off the phone, then wrote her an email and said: you aren't obligated to do anything here. You offered, as a friend to write an argument becausse I lawyer couldn't or wouldn't. You wrote it. You weren't paid, we don't have a contract. You don't have to feel that you must continue. I thanked her for her help, but said that I just couldn't handle getting yelled at these days..and that I thought this was putting her under too much pressure. I offered to write the argument myself and , if she didn't mind, use lots of what she had already written. Our emails crossed and she apologized for yelling and of course there was a BUT. She felt that I was criticzing her when I told her that the Xs lawyer tried to psych people (PHD in Psych) ...and that 'lately' that's all I've done. (I haven't talked with her much at all for the last month since the trial date May 13...????) I think she is overwhelmed and on edge. ANyway, she says she will write the argument, and hopefully it won't ruin our friendship as it were. I guess I need to DB her don't I? So here's the upshot: if you don't DB your runaway spouse, you will end up having to DB your lawyer, his lawyer, the other bottom feeders in divorce law anyway. So: think of it like this..is it better to DB the father of my children or some lawyer charging $250 hour. Alrightie then, Bob Barker, come on down!
Bets! I have returned tanned and rested from the beach and village... so I am catching up!
Triple J makes some salient points here, as usual. Seems to me there is still quite a bit of analyzing and not taking things at face value even when he is communicating them... fixer-mania, and it takes one to know one, so I feel pretty qualified to recognize this myself.
It does feel strange when they start communicating what they weren't saying before.
Your interactions (sleeveless shirt included) all sound pretty positive. It does seem like the callback clarifications work pretty well for you both... in terms of creating some understanding. This also works well for me and my H (when we are communicating) and I think it works *precisely* because it is a 180 from what was not working... keep it up.
Linda, thanks for the chuckle! I'll have to remember who I need to DB and when!
Wonder, glad you're back! Can't wait to hear all about your fun in the sun...
I've had a decent day, though I wasn't exactly the life of the graduation/going away party earlier this afternoon. I had to drive to our old neighborhood, which is still sometimes painful for me. The minute I walked through our friends' door, I burst into tears. You could have heard a pin drop, even with about 20 teenagers! Our friends (the parents) did a fantastic job getting me to engage in conversation that put me on a more even keel. Who'd have figured? I ended up having a really good time, even without Mr. Wonderful. I miss them. Good thing the mom and D13 are going to get together with me and my girls in 2 weeks to go to dinner and catch up.
I won't bore you with all the details up to getting D10. On the way to the airport, we had an awkward silence in his truck. I have NO idea why the lull. It wasn't exactly comfortable silence, so I can't write it off as just me. I ended up talking about the friends whose party I had attended earlier...
He said with a weird expression (sort of a smile but forced--not quite sure what that meant), "How does our old house look? Did you drive by?" I found tears welling in my eyes and forced myself to look out the passenger window. I said, "No." He asked why not? I replied, "Because driving by the old house is sometimes painful for me."
We didn't really break the silence until I was at D10's gate, when he called and had a much more cheery disposition.
(I got the escort pass and had the honors of meeting her at the gate.) It was a very happy moment for both of us! We met Mr. W. and D7 at baggage claim and headed out to a nice restaurant--one we had not visited before.
D7 was awful--she was seated next to me and really being a pain. Finally, D10 spoke up and asked her, "Would you like to sit next to Dad?" She nodded yes and they switched places. BTW, our convos before, during and after dinner were like we were any other family.
D10 and I started doing a little parody on Shooter McGavin (from Happy Gilmore) when Mr. Wonderful burst out laughing. We both looked up and saw him grinning from ear to ear and he spoke, "You two are quite a pair. Just watching you makes me smile."
He ended up asking for our opinion on this doofy guy who works for him--someone he said he really struggles to get along with. This coworker had seen another car hit a cat, which was writhing in pain in the street... so he backed up, drove into that lane and ran over the cat once again, killing it.
D10 and I were absolutely horrified and pretty doggone upset. Mr. Wonderful saw our reaction and said, "That's all I needed to know. I really think this guy is an [censored], and seeing what you guys think seals his fate with me. I'm also wondering why he told me that."
He also started filling us in on other more trivial matters....
We got to the house and D10 unloaded her stuff and handed out all the presents, including her gifts to her dad. (I had given him a set of horseshoes earlier with a really swell card with a nice note inside: "You are a WONDERFUL father! Thanks!" I signed it with a heart... He turned around when reading it, so I didn't see his reaction.
When it came time to go, I was fixing some peanut butter/chocolate bars to take to my adopted dad tomorrow. He looked like he really wanted to say something but lost his nerve. It looked on the positive side, though. He finally leaned across the counter and said, "Thank you for the dinner and the horseshoes. It was really a very nice evening. I'll have the girls home tomorrow afternoon sometime."
Whatever he was going to say didn't get said... but I'm not going to punch that button either.
That's it from my neck of the woods.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I was just sitting here and reminding myself of the various birthdays and realized that I had forgotten to wish you a happy one. I hope you celebrated appropriately?
HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY TO YOU!
I must have had my head up my butt. Forgive me?
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Chandler (Renew4Me) hasn't posted in a really long time, but Joey (SeattleHopeful) pokes his head in from time to time. We don't have any candidate for Ross? 
