Cemar said: -------------- it really is quite simple, you just have to love sex and desire sex with your spouse. Unfortunately, almost half of all women are NOT really capable of being like this, and we are the unfortuante guys that married one of these women. --------------
ANNNK, I have to disagree here cemar.
A spouse does NOT have to love and desire sex in order for the relationship to work. Michele is very clear about that in her book, in fact, the "just do it" principal is derived from her experience with people that don't necessarily love or desire sex.
What a good sexual relationship does require is TWO people that want to have a good relationship.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Have my copy of SSM and have read it avidly, then in total despair, then hitting the high lights whenever I need to reaffirm why I am still here. Have my copy of DB too, but since I have always had high desire SSM spoke to me like I was a model for the high desire section of the book! Unfortunately I took the wrong track in trying to interest my W in reading the book. I suggested, placed it in obvious places, then I just begged her to read it. She started reading it too just shut me up. I don't think the she ever finished it because she didn't like the idea of changing. She doesn't think that she should have to change because I made the mistake of meeting my emotional needs without her. You know what that is - the big A - the scarlet letter in a major way. It was a major mistake trying to badger her until she would read the book. I don't believe that she ever read the part about HD spouses, but I know better than to ask!
It is just about to the point where I am thinking that I need to pull out the extra mattress and take the spare bedroom in this house. She thinks that my level of desire is OVER SEXXED, and if I hear "My mother raised me better" one more time I am going to call her mother on the spot and tell her to get out of our bed room.
I have been going through this for 5 years now and am even begginning to investigate herbals to lower my libido! The problem is that the only stuff I have been able to find in my studies really only works well on people with a low level of androgens to begin with. Plus, even if I am able to lower my desire for sex won't I feel empty? Won't I feel like the best part of my life is forever denied to me?
WAIT!!! It already is
We were together for two great years of bliss before we got married - then the axe man lowered his blade. Almost as soon as I put that big rock on her finger her enthusiasm died! What happened and why can I point to this time as a clear defenition of when life started to suck?
I will write more later, but I feel thr typical anger and reesentment building. So, I need to quit before I am a nasty ogre all night long!
Jeff
"As soon as somebody falls in love, all the wits seem to dribble out the bottom of his head." Garion from Castle of Wizardry. And Jeff is obviously in love.
I'm so sorry that you're going through this...it's really no fun. I haven't actually done the A thing myself...but I'll admit I've had the opportunity and have been very close once, and was in fact in the process of planning a trip where we'd meet up...right before my LDH started counseling...when I felt I was at rock bottom and there was no way up.
I'm not trying to push anyone to get their spouse to read the book...but it never hurts to ask...sometimes they agree like my LDH...sometimes they simply won't...then drop it..otherwise it's pushing and they become resentful of it...you're absolutely correct there.
I would encourage you not to move out of the bedroom though. It's very difficult to bridge the sexual gap when you are separated in that manner but still under the same room...you're just roommates at that point.
I have to ask...exactly what does she mean when she says "My mother raised me better" better than what? That's pretty vague. And how does she know what her mother does in the bedroom. I mean...I happen to know what my parents do...but my mother and I a best friends so we talk about our problems but for most people it's an assumption. It just so happens my mom is LD and she and my father are having a the same problem my H and I are only flip-flopped. So I've been helping her to see where my father is coming from and how he's hurting. It's actually been very productive for us.
Anyway...back to the subject at hand. Unfortunately since you did go outside the marriage to meet your needs...that's going to complicate matters. I've always maintained (for myself anyway) that you can forgive...but you don't forget. You can even deal with the hurt and get past it...but you don't forget it. So unfortunately that's probably only going to add to her LD. Do you think it's possible she may at this point be using sex to punish you for your actions?
Marriage without sex is ALWAYS roomates. That is what I think of my marriage, and we occasionally have sex. LD's by there own nature PREFER to be roomates, that is THE WHOLE problem.
We may have to agree to disagree on that point. Having been on the other side of the fence myself. I didn't view myself as a roommate when I was LD. I mean I showed my H affection/love in many other ways, I just didn't enjoy sex....but now that I'm the HD I can certainly see how it feels like you are living with a roommate. I've thought the exact same thing myself...in fact I've voiced that same thing on these boards :-)
That brings me to a thought though...here it is..ready or not.
My LDH loves me, I know he does....but he shows his love for me in many other ways besides sex. He does so many things around the house for me without me asking repeatedly, or asking at all. And gives me things anytime I mention I might like something (materialistally). For some people showing their love in that manner is so easy. It's actually allowing themselves to be vulnerable emotionally that is the impossible thing...that's what my LDH is currently in counseling for.
He has the approach that I show you I love you because I give you...(whatever he's bought me that week)...whereas I come from I don't know that you love me because I don't get (physcial affection/emotional intimacy). That's where our major void is.
Is it possible that your LDW is afraid to be vulnerable to you?
Anita - taking her own opinion with a grain of salt.
I think you've just described my M. W is a great W outside of the bedroom. She routinely does all those little things that say ILY. But for whatever reason, she can't/won't let it carry into the bedroom.
I'm guessing here...but that makes me think she's got underlying issues she needs to deal with...and it's very possible she's not even aware of what they are. I mentioned this in a post on another thread...my LDH didn't even really realize how he was behaving towards me until our C asked some questions that made him think and allowed her to open his eyes to how he had been treating me and our relationship. He was really shocked/hurt that he'd been causing me so much pain.
We're far from the end of our road...but I'm very fortunate in the fact that my LDH wants to change his behavior. The truly hard part was getting him to see what he was doing to himself, me, and our relationship. I hate to put it this way...but he truly was "clueless" until that lightbulb came on.
I've now been able to request of him that he do something that shows he loves me every day...that I don't have to guess about...that doesn't require money...as I'm not lacking anything in our relationship monetarily...just emotionally/physically.
I feel that mading that request and imposing that condition...it still gives him some leeway to do some things he's comfortable with...but it's also not the easiest thing in the world for him to do so he has to stretch it a bit. I've noticed that since I put that condition on the table...that he participates with our son more, giving me more time to do what I need...and now he's beginning to do little things physically that he simply didn't do before....i.e. kissing me on the back of the neck, cuddling, and even walking into the kitchen buck naked and talking with me...he'd never do that before. This isn't sex, and certainly no replacement for it but...it's a start.
I've had to come to a realization for myself that these small steps are rewarding...for me...these steps scream that he does love me. I know they are so small...but just the effort is sooo important. It helps me to maintain my patience with our lack of sex...and as an added bonus, he's beginning to actually communicate more effectively with me as well. The other night I asked if he felt like "getting lucky"...and for once he actually told me he was too tired (normally he'd have ignored me) and said but tomorrow night we can. You could have knocked me over....I was so appreciative of him doing that and not ignoring me...I made a point the next day to let him know how much that meant.
The old Love Languages. People tend to give love in the way they want to recieve love. I have figured out that my love language is physical touch. I do not have a second love language like some do. Unfortuantely, my wifes love language is NOT physical touch. For a ND wife, physical touch is easily the hardest love language to learn if it is not your primary language. Sure, she cooks dinner, does the laundry, etc.., but these are only appreciated by me, they are not LOVE to me. If she wants to express love to me in a meaningful way, it must come through physical touch, which could be affection or sex. Nothing else will make any deposits in the love tank. Now I too must figure out her love language so that I can make deposits in her love tank.
Quote: Is it possible that your LDW is afraid to be vulnerable to you?
Aren't all LD spouses this way? The literally don't want to want. What exactly are they afraid of, what is this vulnerablness?
Well I can only speak for myself and my LDH on this...but for both of us it was a control issue. My LDH has been trying to desperately to make sure he wasn't treated the way his ex treated him that once we were married he shut down emotionally (because that's when things went downhill for him last time). For me being vulnerable meant showing my weaknesses and allowing someone in meant they could hurt me. Couple that with a bad self-esteem problem and bad body image and you have a recipe for disaster in a relationship.
but...it's a start.