Grief and Gratitude, Grok - day by day

[grok]

Thread four.

Titled inspired by MamaG and Kings Kaleidoscope … at the end of thread three.

First thread:

Grief and Gratitude, Grok

https://forum.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2949552&page=all

Second Thread:

Grief and Gratitude, Grok - Shifting

https://forum.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2950131&page=all

Third Thread:

Grief and Gratitude, Grok - (A) Rise

https://forum.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2950697&page=all


There is much behind me.

Behind Me by Teho (instrumental)

... an immersive, reflective atmosphere, blending a steady, driving house beat with delicate, somewhat sorrowful melodies ... "dreamlike" and "intensely atmospheric" ... a building structure, with a captivating, steady rhythm that gradually intensifies


g

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

- Cadet's Welcome Thread

Time by NTO (instrumental)

... flowing, immersive, and cinematic quality ... evokes emotion through its rich, flowing melodies

[DnJ]

Hello g

Yes, there is much behind you. Accomplishments and growth aplenty.

Nice to see you are free from the yoke of alimony. 18 payments. Congratulations! (And condolences. It’s a weird bittersweet thing.)

D

[grok]

Congratulations! (And condolences. It’s a weird bittersweet thing.)

It is. And closes off with finality a little bit more of the old me while freeing the new me. Though I am uneven in follow-through, I recognized some time ago that each action I took, to close off the remaining connections between XW and myself, was freeing in an undefined weird, bittersweet way.

day by day

The day by day yesterday.

D20 excited about FL being 37F overnight and then crying and throwing up at 2am. "dad, fix it. it hurts"

D18 very smartly thinking through why she doesn't like her current work situation and then later at night falling emotionally apart i just want to go to bed but i have schoolwork due, and i can't close the web page, and i thought i'd be done in time, and i have pets to do, and dishes to do, and i need you to review it, and i worked so hard today to make sure i was on time, i crashed out on the floor with the heating pad because i didn't feel good today, and ....."

S13 intelligently working search engines in the process of getting his Pet Care badge and then being single syllable grumpy "uuhhgg" about not liking anything in the full fridge and pantry.

Me? I crashed out on my bed for an hour "nap" ... while my mini-adults "snuck" in and took pictures of me sleeping. LOL.

triggers and cycles

Well, another life event hit me sideways triggered / caused that well worn cycle of emotions...

Though to clarify, it was not MY life event.

Some posts back I mentioned reconnecting with a cousin. We've been messaging on and off ever since. I received the following about a week ago and have been letting the swirling emotions just do their thing.

Cousin S,
...Hope all is going as good as possible...
...life putts along for years then all of a sudden it changes...
...asked for a divorce the end of august—- he let it be known that we ( the kids n I) are no longer profitable to him and as he has been involved with another affair all summer… he’d like his freedom - which he has been enjoying....
...boys n I will be moving up to...
...in the spring I will move my folk up there too...
...so much to work through after  20 years here married...
...all the mental n emotional packing that’s hard...

You can see why that would pull me, if briefly, right back to the point when you realize EA/PA from the person you trusted most.

I messaged back love and hugs. and some snippets from postings here. and music selections.

Cousin S,
...Maybe that’s why I think you’d understand…
...the first affair I was aware of was  when SXX was 3- so 15  years ago...
...broke my trust,  my heart- everything.  I was angry - very very angry...
...but I didn’t want to share custody for...
...thought when he quit that one it would be it...
...few years ago, the boys n I were able to name 16…
...quit counting… and quit caring...
...he’d come and go with less interest in the family than a customer at a bed n breakfast...
...for narcissists, the relationship isn’t about feelings or emotion or connection— it’s about control...
...instead of a fatal stab with a sword that  stops you in your tracks, mine is more a constant stabbing  that over time...
...times I feel like I can’t go on… like every thing is ending...
...But then I have those glimpses of hope- your dad mentioned- ... i might be able to ... discover what normal would be….after all these years- I don’t  think I know normal...
…what does it feel like not to be angry or hurt…

Wow. That sent me into a whole different spin cycle. what do you say? the fixer can't fix. there is no fixing to be done. yet...what parts of DB principles can be offered as supporting. I offer a place to vent. I offer understanding. I offer bits of my own experience as empathy and connection. A point of love and understanding from outside the mess.

Cousin S,
...you are right. Grief does cycle...
...I think it’s important to recognize the cycle. Realize it’s part of the new reality .  Realize you don’t get stuck in anyone part of it.  And realize it’s ok...
...Thanks for the songs.  Music is my life blood....
...let’s just say if you hear a Metallica tune from my direction it’s probably not a good time to speak to me...
...lifts your focus from the mess around to the creator...
...No matter what- that’s where I usually land...  

I ... think I struck the right balance. Music as a connection? OK! Lets go!

Cousin S,
...I complete love these songs… I understand the feeling expressed in the Judah song.  I’m so thankful people put feelings to music.  Sure relate… 
...We start loading the uhauls on Sunday.
...It will be a crazy week!


My emotions still swirl at her messages, though very muted now. I was a little surprised at how much...I mean, still reading archives here doesn't hit me like this. I wonder why? Because she is my cousin and I know her? I let the question rest for now.

g

Beatitudes - JUDAH

I differed my hope, all I do is cope
I don't got the words, sum up all the hurt
I just wanna cry, wanna be alright
Can't be weak, can't break free
On my knees
Most days, my face on the floor
Heart can't break any more from the pain of the divorce
Oh, my God, what's this for?
...
Is it a test? 'Cause I'll fail more and more
I suck, fresh out of fucks
Where are you, my Lord?
...
Another medium, see it different
Blessed are the meek and those who thirst
Blessed are the poor and the hearts that hurt
Blessed are the ones in bed, can't get out their head
...
Might wanna die, nothing left to cry
Just trying to survive, that was me terrified
I see now that life had to prove
Like roses are red and violets blue
I don't know what I would do without you

[grok]

Days

Holidays -
Thanksgiving is approaching and XW's parents came to town for a few weeks. The news was passed though D18 some weeks back.

I've been thinking I should have a separate talk, them and me. ... Set our connection anew, without XW between anymore, and not going through their grandchildren. This is MY home. They are welcome here but come to me directly. I'm not sure how I will handle Thanksgiving... as... well, see below.

The moment has arrived for killing the past and coming back to life

Birthdays -
S13 is now S14! *fireworks*

The big present was upgrading him from an 8 year old iPhone to a 16e. I stacked all the discounts and added him to my overarching plan.

Over the last week, D20, D18 and I had set up a small family party for just us this evening with cake and gifts.
later...
D20, "Can Grandma and Grandpa come over too?"
G, "Of course they can. They are always welcome."

And then, as I was out this evening, I received a message 30 minutes before I got home and the mini-party started at 8:30p

D20, "Dad.... Grandma invited mom over. I didn't know that was happening. She thought it would be nice for S14. Just wanted to make sure you knew."
G, "It will be nice for S14"

Hmmm... I'm split here. I'm a little irritated Grandma is making invitations without talking to me. At the same time, since it turned into more than just the four of us, it probably was good for S14.

XW, and her parents, could have done birthday things or plans any time all day. They did not. Nor make plans for such. Huh.

Anyway, I exhibited good cheer for all, teasing my young ones (dual wielding lighters for the candles...lol), taking pictures I will share later.

XW, 45 minutes later, after presents and a bite of cake, quietly, "I'm gonna get going now." and heads out saying bye to S14.

Grandma, "Where did XW go? Did she leave?"

Grandma and Grandpa left about 15 minutes later.

g

Coming Back to Life - David Gilmour] (Live from the Luck and Strange Concerts)

Where were you when I was burned and broken
While the days slipped by from my window watching
Where were you when I was hurt and helpless
Because the things you say and the things you do surround me
While you were hanging yourself on someone else's words
Dying to believe in what you heard
I was staring straight into the shining sun

Lost in thought and lost in time
While the seeds of life and the seeds of change were planted
Outside the rain fell dark and slow
While I pondered on this dangerous but irresistible pastime
I took a heavenly ride through our silence
I knew the moment had arrived
For killing the past and coming back to life

I took a heavenly ride through our silence
I knew the waiting had begun
And headed straight..into the shining sun

(Quite literally written about his divorce and finding the woman he later married)

[DnJ]

Hello g

Happy Birthday to S14! Pretty sweet upgrade from his 8 year old phone.


I understand you being irritated with the surprise invite of XW.

This is MY home. They are welcome here but come to me directly.

It is one thing to speak directly, and make plans directly, with their older grandchildren. After all, the girls are adults. However, XW’s parents extending an invite to XW seems to cross a line.

That being said, I believe your agreement is that XW could more or less come and go as she pleases. Also:

D20, "Can Grandma and Grandpa come over too?"
G, "Of course they can. They are always welcome."

So, Grandma and Grandpa are always welcome. And XW is allowed as well. So, what is it that is upsetting you? Be specific. (The answers are for you. You need not share them. Just some help uncovering ‘why’.)

In the above, did Grandma and Grandpa asked/invite themselves through D20? Or did D20 ask if Grandma and Grandpa could be invited? Does it change things? Should it? Is one way better than the other?

If you were like my family, XW was the go between. The one who invited people and arranged birthdays and such. That duty falls to who now? In my case, for the first year, it was more picked up by my older kids and my Mom. I then realized that duty didn’t belong on their shoulders, it’s not their job, and I actively took over. And now, I do ok. However, XW was better at it. (Or seemed it to me.)

The moment has arrived for killing the past and coming back to life.

An interesting quote.

It is a new and different life after such. Divorce or reconciliation; as one’s situation progresses the old life fades and a new one unfurls.

Consider where you are. How things presently function. The family dynamics, communication, and such. What is respectful and disrespectful of you. Of your home. Consider how you would like things to be. Then work and move forward towards that end.

Do this when calm and free from the emotions of holidays and gatherings. Be rational and levelheaded when considering the what’s and why’s of it.

Killing the past and coming back to life. I think it less a matter of actively killing, and more a matter of what one’s feeding.

Feed the present. Feed the dynamics you want. Live and love your life.

D

[grok]

Flashes

D18, "Dad, Grandma said they wanted to do games tonight. I said around 5p, is that OK?"
G, prioritizing grandparent time, "sure, that is fine... do you have your schoolwork done enough for tomorrow?"

....church, grocery shopping, cleaning, put away from weekend camping with S14...

D18, with teary eyes, "Dad! Grandma is such a brat! I don't like her right now!"
G, emotional force fields up to accept calmly whatever pours out, "What happened D18? isn't it about time you were planning games with grandparents?"
D18, "Grandma asked if I wanted to do it at home or at mom's shop."

Oh! ... it didn't take but a split seccond to understand why that was sooooo wrong. Grandma effectively asking D18 to choose between Dad and Mom.

flashes

of

anger, disapointement, grief

that this is put on my children!!!

it all rolls though me in an overlaping instant

can't breath

then

G, "oh, yes, D18, that is NOT ok and not right to ask you."

and I don't say but am proud of her for seeing it for what it was ...

... I give D18 hugs.

G, "Why don't you go over to your mom's and take S14. I'll get the shopping done here while you are out. Just message me if you think of something we should get for this week. As you have an assignment due, pick a time when you need to leave and tell them this when you arrive."

My thinking... these are XW's parents, let them have an enjoyable few hours together...with XW and D18 and S14. D20 is out for the weekend visiting a friend three hours drive away.

coda

ring, ring,

D18, "Dad, we're on the way to mom's shop and she isn't answering. Grandma is trying the door but there is no response. I don't know if she even asked mom. I just thought you should know. "
G, "OK D18, thanks for calling. let me know if you head back home agian."

g



ps

S14 and I had a good time camping for a couple days (Fri/Sat/Sun) despite, "Dad, I DONT like camping" 14 year old grumpiness.

I launched into camping directly after... driving 6 hours to a concert Thursday night with D20 (We are the Messengers, Jeremy Camp, and Skillet) ... and D20 let me know the day before, "Daaaad, we have to be back before noon on Friday...I scheduled work!" So. Driving home from midnight to morning hours of Friday! Oh... to be young LOL.

In the Spirit of the Season. The Rockin' version

O Come, O Come Emmanuel - Skillet

O come, Thou Dayspring, come and cheer (Come and cheer)
Our spirits by Thinе advent here (Advеnt here)
Disperse the gloomy clouds of night
And death's dark shadows put to flight
...
Rejoice! (Rejoice!) Rejoice! (Rejoice!) Emmanuel
Shall come to thee, O Israel (Oh)
...
He's with us now



pps

Side story,

When We Are Messengers was finishing their set, next to last song, they played "Maybe It's Ok." I've quoted this song before. Acceptance of not being Ok, being broken...

Maybe it's ok if I'm not ok
'Cause the One who holds the world is holding on to me
Maybe it's alright if I'm not alright

The singer stopped and turned to the audience, "I'm a professional for my art...but I'm going to have to end it right here and not do the last song. I don't have it in me tonight. My Da called me two nights ago and said Ma had an MRI of her head. There's something there and she's not OK. I wish I was there with her right now. ... It's OK to not be OK. We are all broken sometimes." The audience gave him much love as he and crew exited the stage.

day by day

[grok]

DnJ connected thoughts day. (LOL)

You may not get responses…but they do roll around in minds and hearts.

A change on the rise.

XW

 I believe your agreement is that XW could more or less come and go as she pleases.

Sort of.  Explicitly agreed to when they were S11, D16, and D18:

* XW may come over on weekdays while I am at work to homeschool children.
* XW may stay over while I am on business travel since there are minors in the home.

Tacitly accepted

* If XW comes over in the evenings "to say goodnight," I have not objected if she sometimes comes in the house and hangs out with them for a bit.  I think it is good for my children.
* When XW comes over with her parents during workdays because they are in town, I have not objected.  Spending time with the children is good for them all.
* Other one offs where she comes over for some reason....

Of note, XW never made a place for kids or parents to visit/hang out.  As far as I know, she has not picked up the type of work that would generate income to do so.  

Killing the past and coming back to life. I think it less a matter of actively killing, and more a matter of what one’s feeding.

I knew the moment had arrived
For killing the past and coming back to life

I read it a little bit differently...the great thing about verse... I see killing off the imagined futures that rested on the roots of the past.  Those manifold dreams that were to unfold ... but no longer will.  

THOSE branched futures are dead.  But for a while, the LBS won't internalize it.  They are killed off, ended, and it is time to recognize and accept what is.

for

What the LBS sees in time, after doing the work, is a new process that has been planted and generating underneath. 

While the seeds of life and the seeds of change were planted

A seed planted.  A new root.  A new branching manifold future unfolding.

Forever fractures and Jacob’s limp

There is a lot of collateral damages in these situations. Some fractures never really heal.

And what do we do with the presence of such fractures? What lessons do we move forward with?

. Can you imagine being Jacob? Can you imagine waling the rest of your life with a visible limp? Every step you take you are reminded of this encounter … How that must have shaped Jacob for a lifetime! That must have lead him to a place of surrender each time he took a step!
…
If we don’t have moments when we fully trust him and where there are no safety nets of plan B’s, then we will never fully learn to trust him with everything.
…
The emptying is rarely pleasant. … When our comforts, our idols, and our understandings are ripped from us … We understand those things, people., or ideas in which we placed out hope and security are, in fact, fleeting and completely incapable of providing an anchor for our souls amidst the storms of life.

What is standing?

Am I still standing? Not in the definition of trying to continue a marriage to XW. Though I leave open the possibility, she has not shown any of the qualities defined by Sandi2 as necessary for a R. More like… the seeds of change were planted and

Most of us consider waiting as something very passive, a hopeless state determined by events totally out of our hands.
….
But there is none of this passivity in Scripture. Those who are waiting are waiting very actively. They know that what they are waiting for is growing from the ground on which they are standing. … If we wait in the conviction that a seed has been planted and that something has already begun, it changes the way we wait. Active waiting implies being fully present to the moment with the conviction that something is happening where we are …

I feel sad

…when XW exhibits…(lightly paraphrased)

G, emailing life insurance, ”please assist XW in transferring billing for life insurance to her account”

as XW has not completed this settlement term in over a year. We had discussed this briefly before. I’ve been paying for the policy so it didn’t lapse. I told XW, though it is a term, it was required for the court to accept the settlement, but I do not require it of her. I am acquainted with the person I am emailing. It’s not a cold corporate email.

XW messaging, ”How many months do you want reimbursed? I’m not signing until I have to, which is soon.”
Pause
”Never mind. I will sign the paperwork tomorrow. It doesn’t really matter what they have done anyway. None of it matters. God is in control.”

I didn’t reply, thinking to reply after 24hrs … something like I don’t require any reimbursement

The next day in email I see…

Life insurance, ”G, We have sent multiple applications to XW with no success.
XW, we can stop billing G but if you do not get new you will not be in line with your decree.
what you want to do.”

XW, ”I cared about decree obligations; G told me “he was covered and didn’t need anything from me”.  I understand not wanting to pay every month on my obligation.  I don’t blame him for being testy about this. 

If a lump sum payment, I will sign it December 1st, that is what I can meet.  A lump sum was what I initially requested and it came back to me listing monthly payments.  I apologize deeply for digging my heels in.  I have had hackers steal my identity and wreak havoc, including with every aspect of my finances (my car, my RV, my children’s health and educational opportunities, my annual taxes, my internet, travel, and so very much more). It is hard to address this with people who are not friends and family”

Life insurance, ”I am truly sorry for everything you are going through. That would not be easy.
We will stop the auto draft from G’s acct. “

XW, ”I appreciate your patience… I will read it over and sign it to get this monkey off everyone’s backs.“

I don’t think I’ve ever been “testy.” XW has had a 25 year habit of mind reading. Hackers to blame for everything? I have no idea. I am doubtful. Given this trend started when she added $7,000 extra in one month to our joint credit card just before she departed. Those extra charges stopped the moment she gave the card back to me.

I am sad she is having such a hard time. Mind and Heart. I don’t wish it on her. She has the skills (multiple degrees) and wealth (half our net worth) not be in the predicament.

I’m not fixing it. I don’t feel an urge to.

Just sad this is where her choices lead to.

g

Change on the Rise - Avi Kaplan

What good's a man
Who's lost his soul
Can't take a stand
Mmm, when his flame's gone cold

Mmm, fend off the enemy
Sing out the jubilee
With all the fire we can breathe
…
Headed up, down the river
Oh, Lord, I feel the reveling
I feel a change on the rise

[Valeska19]

D18, with teary eyes, "Dad! Grandma is such a brat! I don't like her right now!"
G, emotional force fields up to accept calmly whatever pours out, "What happened D18? isn't it about time you were planning games with grandparents?"
D18, "Grandma asked if I wanted to do it at home or at mom's shop."

Oh! ... it didn't take but a split seccond to understand why that was sooooo wrong. Grandma effectively asking D18 to choose between Dad and Mom. "

Am I missing something here grok? Does XW''s parents have a history of this? Even the way it's worded - there seems to be alot of emotional weight here. It 'feels' like a very big deal...

...which leads me to this question? Are your children in therapy? Obviously D18 is an new adult.. but an adult nevertheless. Her emotions are valid... but how she is handling those emotions is very childlike. How do you plan on helping her transition handling those as an adult? How do you teach her to advocate for herself whilst validating her feelings?

And what do we do with the presence of such fractures? What lessons do we move forward with?

We learn to live with them. Sometimes... there is no lesson. Having an unavailable parent is not easy to deal with. There is lots of reparenting yourself that has to be done.

I think you do a great job at allowing your children to have feelings around the issue.
I think you do a really good job pulling back to see a bigger picture (kids continuing a relationship with the grandparents).

AND I can see it there are still little things that sting. And that's okay.

In regards to the XW's parents - perhaps try to understand they are on a journey too. I'm sure it's not easy for them to watch XW's behavior and probably don't have the best tools to handle it. Are you really angry at them? Or are you just upset about the situation?

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

You may not get responses…but they do roll around in minds and hearts.

Perfectly fine. And thank you for the kind words.

I’m not fixing it. I don’t feel an urge to.

Just sad this is where her choices lead to.

Good for you not getting involved in her life insurance boondoggle.

I didn’t reply, thinking to reply after 24hrs

Aldo good to utilize 24 hours to consider what response to provide. As things turned out, none was required as XW decided to deal with the “monkey on everyone’s back”. (Not much of a monkey IMHO. Life has far bigger problems.)

I don’t believe you’ve been testy regarding reimbursement. Though in XW’s narrative and mind reading she ‘needs’ to see it such.

Yes, it is sad to see such confusion and consequences. Yet, as you stated, her choices are leading her to that.


Gosh, it’s December 1st. Have you started any decorating yet? Setting up the tree? I think I’m going to set up my tree, if not today, tomorrow. (Oh wait, day after tomorrow, I’ve got a dentist appointment tomorrow.)

Have a great day.

D

[grok]

Am I missing something here grok? Does XW''s parents have a history of this? Even the way it's worded - there seems to be a lot of emotional weight here. It 'feels' like a very big deal...

 No, not … exactly. I’ll say up front they are good-hearted people.  So, any thoughts on them are in that context.  There is history with Grandma (I’ll leave the naming to keep people clear), though not so much directly with the children. 

Grandma doesn’t like to make decisions and often uses indirect guilt trips to push things her way.  When I met XW (in her late 20s), she was badly co-dependent on Grandma.  Even for daily/weekly decisions.  Though she was trying to break away and run her own life.  Grandma, apparently, had used XW (since her teen years)  as her emotional sponge and validation for complaints about Grandpa.  During this crisis, I learned that from XW’s perspective, Grandma had strayed from Grandpa in the early years and he hadn’t let her forget it since.  From XW's perspective, they have passive aggressive emotional sniping ongoing in the background.

The above troubled relational dynamics and associated coping mechanisms spill over. If I had to guess, I’d say Grandma isn't even aware of her own passive aggressive emotional manipulation.  She likely wouldn't be aware of how it would be perceived by D18.  For her part, D18 perceives this, and reacts with the tools, words, and capabilities of the 18-year-old young woman she is.   Sometimes very self-aware.  Sometimes falls apart.

...which leads me to this question? Are your children in therapy? Obviously D18 is an new adult.. but an adult nevertheless. Her emotions are valid... but how she is handling those emotions is very childlike. How do you plan on helping her transition handling those as an adult? How do you teach her to advocate for herself whilst validating her feelings?

No, not in therapy.  Though I agree, it is a good idea at some point.  To D18's credit, she normally recognizes her own reactions.  She usually asks for space to reset herself.  It's usually pretty rapid from emotional reactions to self-control.   I try - 

To stick to being unflappable whatever her emotions spill out.  A solid foundation in their lives.
To not take any of it personally.  It is from her internal reality.
To name it, "that is sad" or "that is angering."   Understanding and empathy.
To identify potential reactions or actions she could choose and on what basis she might pick them based on what she might consider important to herself.  So that she looks at what she considers important and chooses actions/reactions based on them.

We learn to live with them. Sometimes... there is no lesson. Having an unavailable parent is not easy to deal with. There is lots of reparenting yourself that has to be done.

I had an interesting conversation with a co-worker last week along those lines.  People were discussing plans for the holiday weekend and when my plans were... non-standard... I gave him the short explanation of my household status.  He identified... because his father left when he and sisters were young.  One sister reacted by never making him part of her life again.  He and the other sister were always excited to see him.  For he was unavailable ... but he was a bringer of fun things and treats.  AND he sees now, how his mom was left holding the bag... the one who sacrificed and made a home and life for him and sisters.  Unprompted, his story validated the advice given here.

I think you do a great job at allowing your children to have feelings around the issue.
I think you do a really good job pulling back to see a bigger picture (kids continuing a relationship with the grandparents).

AND I can see it there are still little things that sting. And that's okay.

NGL, a little praise feels good.  *laughs*  

I try to keep in mind complaints D20 and D18 made individually to me. "Dad, mom is still treating me like I'm 10 or 12 and telling me what to do and feel." Is this is connected to the MLC part of XW's crisis? Don't know. Don't need to know. I try to be a guide and safety net for these young adults.

In regards to the XW's parents - perhaps try to understand they are on a journey too. I'm sure it's not easy for them to watch XW's behavior and probably don't have the best tools to handle it. Are you really angry at them? Or are you just upset about the situation?

I'm not actually angry or upset at them.  Sometimes I am disappointed. Sometimes I am unsure.  Often unhappy that we have to navigate this at all.

From the beginning of this episode, my mental model for thinking on them was a question.  Twenty years from now, how would I react or deal with D20 or D18 making the choices XW has?

So...  maybe they too feel disappointed, unsure, often unhappy that we have to navigate this at all.  

Grandma and Grandpa stopped by to pick up the young ones the other day.  They were taking them and XW to a Medieval Times show and dinner.  The last one out the door, Grandma stops and turns briefly, "Oh, ... I wish you were coming too...  *short worried sigh*" and then hustled out to their car.  

Though no longer dragged by it all ... like others experienced, the holidays, the ex-in-laws, ... my chest tightens and eyes fill.  I sometimes feel like I'm on the outside looking in.  

g

Outside In - Circle of Dust

It's hard for me to face that so much time has passed
And all the things that went away were those I thought would last
It’s hard to look into the mirror dark within
And not embracing the reflection there  may be my greatest sin
...
Standing here with empty hands to fill my heart
And thinking I am winning in a race I didn't start
...
Sometimes I feel  I'm on the outside looking in
It's like I'm  watching someone else living in my skin
Hope has stained my heart in vain, I'm drowning in my sin
Sometimes I feel I'm on the outside looking in
 Outside looking in

[Outro]
Father,  have mercy on your son
And always  bring me home again however far I've run
Father,  grant wisdom for within
So  I no longer have to be on the outside looking in

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

“Dad, mom is still treating me like I'm 10 or 12 and telling me what to do and feel.” Is this is connected to the MLC part of XW's crisis?

Yes this is a common trait of the MLCer. The crisis drags them back to their time of their trauma; from whence they need to grow up from. This is, for most, their teenager and/or childhood years. Thus they behave, treat, and interact with the world - people, finances, life insurance, risk, relationships, employment, how they dress, how they speak, and so on - in a childlike manner. It is interesting, and wildly weird, to see a woman of 50 behaving like a 13 year old.

One’s emotional state (mental state) does come through in their interactions. Most adults have grown up and put away childhood things. For one consumed by torment and emotional time travel, they display childlike behaviour. Your daughters do see this and are rather spot on with what Mom is doing. You could give them an explanation for ‘why’ Mom behaves thusly. However, the truly deeply hidden cause/why of Mom’s behaviour - the hidden trauma(s) - remains unknown. For only XW can discover that herself.

Another facet of Mom’s treatment towards daughters is that’s how she see them. It is one part, children see the world through children eyes. So, a teenage-like XW is going to see the world likewise. It is second part, that XW/Mom has stalled.

That time travel stuff again. The MLCer, while consumed and embroiled in replay, is pretty much asleep in the present. There are moments when they peek out of replay, peek out of the tunnel, and display moments of awakening. Like the character Rip Van Winkle, they awaken to find the world has moved on without them. Most often they dive back into replay facing such disorientation, which of course exacerbates things further.

The fortunate ones do, bit by bit, peek by peek, slowly - glacially slowly - make their journey. With a good and correct amount of fate, luck, God, the universe, whatever - the fortunate exit the tunnel. Face their depression, work through withdrawal, and hopefully find acceptance. All on their own time.

For me it is 8+ years post bomb drop. Remember a crisis usually silently starts around 18-24 months before BD. My XW is now around a decade ‘asleep’. So many events missed in our kids’ lives. A fact which was noticeable during my son’s wedding. XW has been missing for quite a while.

Post wedding, and the (forced) peek or two she had, she has run back into the tunnel. Quit her grass mowing jobs. Missed the kid’s birthdays. And hidden away, again. Poor gal. She is quite a lost soul. I suspect Christmas isn’t going to do her any favours.

Though no longer dragged by it all ... like others experienced, the holidays, the ex-in-laws, ... my chest tightens and eyes fill. I sometimes feel like I'm on the outside looking in.

I know what you say. At times, I still miss what could have been. Long for it. And then let it go. And embrace what I do have. Which is actually a lot.

I didn’t deal the cards, I just play the cards I’ve been dealt.


“Outside looking in.”

Some advice.

Go inside.

Don’t stand out in the cold. Go inside.

For example. The in-laws. And from what you say, you are looking/willing to keep this relationship alive and active. So, get ahead of things. Do not wait to react to late invites and such. Invite them to your house. First. Not reacting. Acting.

Make plans and invite Grandparents for Christmas. Take the lead.

Believe me, they are feeling disappointed, unsure, etc. And will be happy to have an invite.

I’ve found people are quite happy to join in to activities. They mostly need someone to just make the decision.

(People also have a reluctance to get involved because of our grief. A common reaction, and most unhelpful. When you ever get the opportunity with a person in grief, go against this incorrect default feeling and speak with them.)

Leading and deciding also helps you.

It may be a strange feeling to be somewhat the ‘center of attention’. Yet go with it. You’re not stealing the spotlight or anything, just being the host. The man of the house.

Decide, choose, and act to be inside.

Be the life of your home. (I know, it takes effort to let go that wife/Mom was usually in that role. Let go, and take the reins.)

Shine.

Trust me, people will and do gather to such a light.

D