Life goes on

[kiro]

Those aren't friends.

We use that term too loosely. I have made no secret to the board that I am a recovering alcoholic. I had "friends" that when I went into recovery no longer wanted to hang out. I made it clear that to remain sober I couldn't be around partying and drinking. They were not interested in hanging out without partying and drinking. Thus, not true friends.

Value true friends. Jettison those that are not.

I probably need to think about this a little bit. Friendship is a complicated topic. I don't think it's black or white. It often falls in the gray areas.

If I use your example, you clearly expect your true friends to stand by you at any time especially when you're going through tough times. You also expect them to accept your choices and support you whatever these choices are. Right? And you're disappointed that they didn't want to hang out when you didn't want to party anymore. Understandable

But if I apply that same logic to the situation of 2 people splitting up, it means that friends will want to stand by each of you regardless of your choices. If they're as much your friend as they are your spouse's friend, they're put in a difficult predicament.

In a way, to agree on a definition of true friendship, we probably need to agree on a common moral code. A true friend will advise you to do the right thing because they want what's good for you.

But not everyone agrees on what's right and what's wrong. This is especially true when it comes to relationships in our modern days. Many people don't see marriage or family as an important value anymore. They may value independence, individuality, and personal fulfillment as higher values. (I'm not saying that marriage is in contradiction with any of these values necessarily)

When a WS starts behaving in a wayward, they usually have a different story to tell their friends. They'll say that they were unhappy in the MR, they'll accuse the LBS (often unfairly) of abusive behavior, they'll talk about finding their true self, their freedom, their independence, etc. They'll say a lot of things that could sound appealing and convicing to many people.

I think it's difficult to judge all your friends equally. Very few friendships are true and sincere anyway.


Lately, I've also been on the other side of the fence. I have a friend who has been going through separation this past year. And we've been spending a lot of time together. Given my experience, you'd expect that I would try to convince him not to separate. But there is just no way to convince someone of something when their minds are already made. From the outside, many people can accuse me of helping him out in his separation. But it wouldn't be true. The only choices I have are to stand by him and give him good advice when I can or to walk away.

[SteveLW]

Those aren't friends.

We use that term too loosely. I have made no secret to the board that I am a recovering alcoholic. I had "friends" that when I went into recovery no longer wanted to hang out. I made it clear that to remain sober I couldn't be around partying and drinking. They were not interested in hanging out without partying and drinking. Thus, not true friends.

Value true friends. Jettison those that are not.

I probably need to think about this a little bit. Friendship is a complicated topic. I don't think it's black or white. It often falls in the gray areas.

If I use your example, you clearly expect your true friends to stand by you at any time especially when you're going through tough times. You also expect them to accept your choices and support you whatever these choices are. Right? And you're disappointed that they didn't want to hang out when you didn't want to party anymore. Understandable

But if I apply that same logic to the situation of 2 people splitting up, it means that friends will want to stand by each of you regardless of your choices. If they're as much your friend as they are your spouse's friend, they're put in a difficult predicament.

In a way, to agree on a definition of true friendship, we probably need to agree on a common moral code. A true friend will advise you to do the right thing because they want what's good for you.

But not everyone agrees on what's right and what's wrong. This is especially true when it comes to relationships in our modern days. Many people don't see marriage or family as an important value anymore. They may value independence, individuality, and personal fulfillment as higher values. (I'm not saying that marriage is in contradiction with any of these values necessarily)

When a WS starts behaving in a wayward, they usually have a different story to tell their friends. They'll say that they were unhappy in the MR, they'll accuse the LBS (often unfairly) of abusive behavior, they'll talk about finding their true self, their freedom, their independence, etc. They'll say a lot of things that could sound appealing and convicing to many people.

I think it's difficult to judge all your friends equally. Very few friendships are true and sincere anyway.


Lately, I've also been on the other side of the fence. I have a friend who has been going through separation this past year. And we've been spending a lot of time together. Given my experience, you'd expect that I would try to convince him not to separate. But there is just no way to convince someone of something when their minds are already made. From the outside, many people can accuse me of helping him out in his separation. But it wouldn't be true. The only choices I have are to stand by him and give him good advice when I can or to walk away.

Can't really disagree with anything you've said. However, I would point out that standing by a friend that is separating form his wife and actively encouraging him to do so are two completely separate things.

I also submit that a true friend tells his friend when that friend is doing something wrong. For instance, my W and I had really close friends years ago. The W chose to cheat on her husband with a coworker, then leave our friend for this coworker. We stuck by him.......we jettisoned her.

[SteveLW]

Oh and it is a very complex subject, indeed!

[kiro]

So out of the blue, my ex sends me a message apologizing for what she did and asking for my forgiveness. 8 years later! I always wondered if that days was going to happen…

Quick Recap of my story:
We were married 17 years with 2 boys (now in their 20s). She dropped the EB on me in 2017 then she left a few months later.
We got a peaceful divorce in 2019.
I met another great woman and got remarried in 2020. I’ve been happily married ever since.
My ex is remarried as well with her affair partner. But I have no contact with her and have never tried to know how she’s doing. Since the divorce 6 years ago, we met maybe 3 or 4 times during the kids graduations… We talked normally in a friendly way these few times.

[DnJ]

Hello kiro

How interesting. An out of the blue apology and asking for forgiveness. I bet her apologizing feels kind of good. Maybe even has some closure to it.

I suspect XW has some manner of pressure in her life which is prompting her to sort out her stuff. To tie up loose ends.

Have you replied to her?

Have you forgiven her?

It’s great to hear things are going well in your life.

DnJ

[kiro]

Hi DnJ

I replied with a short message saying that I had moved on a long time ago, that there are a lot of things I never understood but that I had made peace with the fact that I didn’t need to understand everything. I also said that if she needed to discuss anything further to let me know. My tone was very peaceful and friendly, but I didn’t give her the pleasure of explicitly saying that I forgave her.

She thanked me for my reply and that was it.

To answer your question, I don’t know if I forgave her. I don’t even know what that word means. To be honest, I don’t think about it or about her anymore. I don’t hold any grudge or any bitterness inside me. So maybe that means I forgave her.

The way I see it is that we had a good happy marriage and she ruined it. We could have grown old together and lived happily as a family. But that was not meant to be. There are many paths in life and many ways to live happily. Her actions led me to a different direction, and thank God I am happy and fulfilled in my marriage and my life.

[Kind18]

So out of the blue, my ex sends me a message apologizing for what she did and asking for my forgiveness. 8 years later! I always wondered if that days was going to happen…

Quick Recap of my story:
We were married 17 years with 2 boys (now in their 20s). She dropped the EB on me in 2017 then she left a few months later.
We got a peaceful divorce in 2019.
I met another great woman and got remarried in 2020. I’ve been happily married ever since.
My ex is remarried as well with her affair partner. But I have no contact with her and have never tried to know how she’s doing. Since the divorce 6 years ago, we met maybe 3 or 4 times during the kids graduations… We talked normally in a friendly way these few times.

Sounds like you handled this well.

Hard to know what her motivations were for apologising. Entirely possible that things with OM are a bit rocky at the moment. That’s what my ex-wife used to do when we were married - as soon as things between us got a bit rocky, she’d start reaching out to her ex partners apologising for what she’d done. I guess she was monkey branching and trying to test waters.

My divorce has been six years now. I’m remarried, to an incredibly successful woman and we just had a baby together, meanwhile she just split up and was kicked out by OM#4. Maybe I’ll get an apology soon too 🤣

Unwanted divorce was the worst time of my life. But like you, it delivered me to a much better place. It’s hard to be bitter years later when their decision to have an affair actually did you a massive favour!

[DnJ]

Congratulations Kind!!

[kiro]

Thanks for the reply Kind18. It’s always nice to hear other people that were able to move on and build a happy life after going through a divorce. You are right about your last sentence. In a way, she did me a favour because I found my current wife. But I usually don’t like to think that way. I was also happy in my first marriage before she lost her mind.

My wife said the same thing about my ex when she sent me her aplogy. She said that she was testing the waters. Who knows and who cares?

[grok]

Kiro, Kind18

Thanks for dropping back in and showing what it looks like years later.  A glimpse into possible futures yet to be written for me. And others. 

And showing how very long timelines can be before a WW/WAW really works though their crisis, at least enough to acknowledge their actions.  Eight years!

g