Where do I start…the beginning i suppose. My H (53) and I (51) have been married for almost 25 years. We have 2 D’s. 19 and 17. I hope this isn’t too long.
About 3-4 years ago he came to me and told me that he wasn’t happy. He didn’t know what he wanted to do. He wasn’t ready to leave. He refused to go to therapy but we talked through things and came up with some ways to try and improve and he stressed to me how important his band was and it bothered him that I complained about it all the time.
So taking a step back, the band has always been the biggest argument we have. It has always come first. When the kids were little, I always felt like he needed to spend more time with us on the weekends. We both work. Fridays were always band practice and we’d usually hang out as a family on Saturdays after he woke up from a long night out. Not much time for date nights. And he was having gigs on Saturdays like 2-3 weekends a month. I admit, I was mean. I was jealous of his time with the band and when we did get a night out I would ruin it by saying something stupid. But he wouldn’t change either. It’s on us both.
So after the I’m not happy conversation I thought, okay, the kids are getting older, they don’t want to hang out with us anyway, so I’m going to stop this. He also stressed to me that the band was an outlet for him that he needed, kinda like me working out. Okay, i get it, I was stupid. I stopped. I felt like I’d grown up a little too.
We started to hang out more, going and watching other bands, have dinner together, etc. And bam, in January he BD. I was shocked and in despair, the usual. I thought things were getting better! He told me that he thought I had stopped complaining about the band just to keep the peace. Really? That’s what you think of me. He told me he loved me but didn’t love me. I’m 53 and I need to be happy. You’re going to find someone else and be so much happier. I’m not the same person I was. I asked him if there was someone else and he said no. You get it. I told him I loved him and wanted to work it out. He won’t go to therapy and told me that I just need to understand it’s over.
I did all the wrong things of course. And I did dig into his phone. He’s always been very protective of his phone but one morning I got in and found a text message that made me almost throw up between the singer in the band (F) and him. I asked him about her and he said they are just friends. We always have conversations like that. Well, I’m pretty suspicious that they are either having an EA or PA. I forgot to mention that he told me she was getting a D a few days before BD.
He doesn’t want to leave until June when our D(17) is done with school. She’s struggling with school and with her anxiety and ADD I’m really worried how she is going to deal with this. But he says oh don’t worry the kids will be fine. You just have to tell them the right way. Is it wrong that I want him to tell the kids with me in the room and he takes responsibility? He wants to make it sound like it’s both of us.
And he only wanted me tell one person other than my therapist. Glad I started that right away. He’s says he’s not talking to anyone about his, but I’m not sure I believe him.
Somehow I found the DB website and read DR. And I’ve been trying to implement different things as well as the last resort technique. As soon as I think things are better they aren’t. I get the feeling that everything I’m do he thinks I’m doing just so we get along until June. He’s acting like nothing has changed. Same sense of humor same conversations. Still sleeping in the same bed, which might be just for the kids. I don’t know what to do. I’ve been trying to GAL. Pick up some old hobbies. We don’t fight. The only thing we’ve fought about lately is his “expense” credit card that he is supposed to only use for work. I found that he’s been making multiple large payments a month to this card. He said he’s stop using it but I don’t know if that’s the case. I have no idea where this money is going. I think I’m going to drop it for now because it’s obviously a push.
Any suggestions you amazing people have would be awesome. You guys get it unlike a few friends. And I need to see this through your eyes. I first thought this was a MLC but now I’m wondering if WAH. I’m reading DR for the third time with that in mind. I don’t want my marriage to end.
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I am so sorry you are here, but you will find a wealth of information to read that will help you along the way. The posters are at various stages of dealing with their spouses who are either in MLC or Walk Aways.
First and foremost, you are not at fault for his thinking that he is unhappy. Sounds to me like he is on the "edge" of having a MLC. He's the right age and is using the band as a way to take the edge off the feelings of unhappiness. Has something happened in the last year or so? Death in the family or a friend/co-worker? Has he had a health issue or lost a job? Generally, something will trigger the feelings that he is having.
I suggest that you read everything that you can about depression and MLC. Since he is on the "edge" of a crisis, you cannot do a thing about it. If you attempt to stop the crisis, he will go into another one at a later date. I know that this is very difficult for you. I would listen and observe. Do not offer up advice unless he asks for it. He may talk about moving out and may not do it unless he is pressured by you and his home life. The best thing you can do is leave him alone. Try to keep the focus on you and your family.
If you haven't already done this, set up a separate bank account for yourself. Check the credit cards and if they are joint, you need to think about removing your name from them. Why? Because if he is getting ready to enter into a full-blown crisis, he will not hesitate to spend money like it is water and may remove you from the accounts. Some do this and make it very difficult for the left behind spouse to get any money from their spouses. Once they enter the crisis, they become very self-centered and selfish, and it is all about them. You, your family, pets and home will no longer be his world. His world will become a younger version of himself until his crisis is over.
Again, keep the focus on you and your family. Listen and observe. If you listen closely, he may give you clues as to where his head is at presently. Protect your assets. Do not think for one minute that he's going to continue as he has been in paying the bills, etc., once he's in crisis. You will become the sane one who will need to be strong throughout this crisis storm.
Continue to come here to post. Do not share any information that you have or receive about the crisis with him. This is your safe place to post.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you Job. I feel very blessed that I found you guys.
The credit card that he has been using is in his name only. So I have no access to it. However, I have been taking screen shots and recording everything I can because he is paying this card off with our joint account. Even the cash he takes out of our joint account I’m keeping track of. And I’ve made screen shots of all our statements. I’m not sure what to do about the separate account. The L that I had a consultation with told me not to do anything with the accounts yet. That everything is digital. So I’m not sure what to do there? I had a consult just to get my questions answered. Particularly about this.
We’ve talked to a mediation lawyer already and he’s looking at apartments. I don’t know if he has one set up and I haven’t asked. I know he applied for one.
His father had cancer around fall of 2019 but has been cancer free since then. At the time of BD his brother was going to be tested for cancer. We found out a month ago he does have cancer but caught it very early and surgery should take care of it. When I tried to talk to him about it he seemed very positive. The only other thing that’s happened is our D(19) going to college.
I’m trying to stop asking questions and letting him come to me. He still treats me like I’m his “friend” but not wife. He’s comment on things he knows I’m interested in and talks to me about his work. He asks how my day was and if I had fun with the friends I was hanging out with. We still watch tv together, do family dinners, go to our D(17)’s activities. I’m just so confused.
I agree, folks who been through it, get it. On that note, there are many kind and compassionate folks here with much hard earned wisdom.
I see you’ve been reading DR and working on implementing the LRT. This is a good thing, H needs to feel what it will be like, is like, to lose you before he will consider changing his direction. He needs to feel the loss.
H is 53. The time of another life transition. We all traverse stages of life - childhood / adolescence / adulthood / golden years. The mid life stage can be quite problematic for some folks. This particular stage stirs up one’s past, one’s demons, like no other stage. And, unlike previous stages and transitions, one cannot “simply” rebury uncovered traumas and hurts. Mortality, family, work, responsibilities, lost youth, missed opportunities, regrets, and so on, all burst forth.
Most folks do manage to transit this time. It not easy, there is plenty of reconciling of one’s life to this point, their accolades, their regrets, and soul searching. Folks exit this transition peaceful or agitated. It depends on many past factors, how they’ve lived, and their coping skills.
For some people this midlife transition is a lot more difficult. They lash out a lot more than average. They struggle a lot. Still, eventually, they find their way. Usually with some destruction along the way.
And for the very unfortunate few, this time brings up such unrealized past torments and traumas, they enter a crisis. They get stuck and run from their past.
A full blown midlife crisis is a truly horrible thing. It is consuming. The poor soul engulfed in such is upon a terrible journey of trying to come to terms with long ago traumas from a person who was in a position of authority over their young self. Those horrific traumas were impossible for such an immature mind to grasp, so they buried them. The only defence mechanism available to the youngster. Unfortunately, things buried alive, come back to haunt.
A MLC unleashes significant damage and collateral damages. The MLCer runs and partakes in all manner of wild behaviours. They spend money, drink, do drugs, get fast cars, get tattoos, dress differently, start acting/talking like a teenager, and so on. They become a teen with a huge bank account. They toss aside responsibility and accountability. They become brash and bold, and about the worst teenager you can imagine. All in a foolish and fruitless effort to relive and regain their youth. To somehow have a do-over.
Realize, the seeds for a crisis are planted long ago. Long before you, their spouse, ever met them. The MLCer does not know the cause of their present day torment and turmoil. So much buried from their past. These folks are emotionally stunted from time of that trauma(s) and need to grow up from there/then. They have very poor coping skills and mechanism, all leading to this consuming emotional storm.
I pray your H is only having a difficult transition.
Be H having a difficult transition, or entering a crisis, only time will tell.
Be he a MLCer or WAH. Again, time will tell.
Your path, your journey is the same regardless. Focus on you. Give H lots of time and space. Let him feel what he needs to feel. He needs to hit rock bottom before he will change. Very few will change until the pain of not changing outweighs the pain of continuing along.
You suspect a EA or PA. It might be F, the band’s singer, or someone else. It is staggering how commonplace affairs are. Give it little notice. An affair means nothing. They are built upon lies and deceits; which makes a poor foundation for a relationship. It’s like trying to build on sand. Illicit relationships take enormous energies to maintain.
An affair is a band-aid for some deep personal defect. The cheater usually tries to blame the faithful spouse. Ignore any of that BS. It is pure gaslighting and projection. H is presently unable to blame himself and will incorrectly assign/project his faults upon you. He will rewrite your history and craft his narrative. Craft justifications for his course.
Again, you know better. Do not engage in his spew or his make believe. Do not take his bait. Focus on you.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
As soon as I think things are better they aren’t.
Oh yes. It crazy-making. Give him time and space. Focus on you and your daughters. Live and love your life, like H isn’t there.
H has told you he wants a divorce. And wants to hang around until June; until D is finished school. That’s pretty common for these folks.
Move him out of the master bedroom. Tell him, he is sleeping elsewhere. In the spare room, or on the couch in the basement. Does matter where, just not in the MB. Lots of spouses try to push the LBS out. Nope! H wants out of the marriage, he’s the one to leave the bedroom.
And no cake eating. No sex. Especially if you suspect an affair. These folks love to have their cake and eat it to. They really feel they can have the best of both worlds. Let reality slap him.
Stop doing his laundry. Or his dishes. Or his meals. Let him feel the consequences of his choices.
No arguing. No fighting. Just you focusing on you. You living your life. You moving forward.
Originally Posted by bkerchick
He doesn’t want to leave until June when our D(17) is done with school. She’s struggling with school and with her anxiety and ADD I’m really worried how she is going to deal with this. But he says oh don’t worry the kids will be fine. You just have to tell them the right way. Is it wrong that I want him to tell the kids with me in the room and he takes responsibility? He wants to make it sound like it’s both of us.
Of course he wants you to go along. He doesn’t want to be seen as the bad guy. And their idea that kids are resilient, is pure script. They all say that. Kids are pretty far down their list of cares and priorities. These folks are going to do what they’re going to do, regardless of who it hurts. They just like to believe their narrative.
So, definitely be in the room.
I’m a proponent of being open and honest with your kids. Tell them. Answer their questions. All age appropriately. Given your daughters are 17 and 19, your conversations will be much more candid and deeper than someone with kids of 5 and 7.
Those deeper and honest conversations will likely be only between you and your daughters, H will not be involved. Stick to facts. And do not demonize their Dad. It’s not your job to facilitate their relationship, your job is for you to not destroy it.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
The only thing we’ve fought about lately is his “expense” credit card that he is supposed to only use for work. I found that he’s been making multiple large payments a month to this card. He said he’s stop using it but I don’t know if that’s the case. I have no idea where this money is going. I think I’m going to drop it for now because it’s obviously a push.
H has told you he is wanting a D. You need to speak to a lawyer.
That doesn’t mean you are wanting a divorce. You are just gathering information. Learning your rights, responsibilities, and entitlements. Discovering the best case, worst case, and likely case scenarios if a D were to progress.
Keep a close eye on the finances. Some of these folks go off the rails and start spending lots of money. Be prepared and ready. If the time comes you need financial protection or security, get it! You’ve got lots of life left to live, and you have to be able to fund it.
You are on two paths. The emotional healing path, and the business path. Most of our talks here will be emotional healing and working towards detachment and acceptance and such. That’s the bulk of one’s work. That inner journey stuff.
The business side is the money and custody stuff. When dealing with business stuff, remain business-like. Treat this like a business deal gone sideways.
Your kids are adults, so no custody. That leaves only assets and debts.
Lots of LBS do not speak with an L, or look into the business side soon enough. Again, you are just looking into things before you are surprised or in some serious financial troubles. Gaining information and options. And information is power.
There is nothing wrong with you getting your own account and starting to deposit into it. Or removing yourself from the joint credit card. Stuff like that. Though, depending on your locale, it can still be considered martial debt. Hence, speaking with L. A legal expert that can shed light for you.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
You guys get it unlike a few friends. And I need to see this through your eyes. I first thought this was a MLC but now I’m wondering if WAH. I’m reading DR for the third time with that in mind. I don’t want my marriage to end.
(((Hugs)))
You will be ok. You’ve got time in all this.
Focusing on you. Finding detachment. The advice is quite counterintuitive. It feels wrong or against what we feel is the correct or default action to take. Have faith. And dig for patience.
I look forward to conversing will you.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I have talked to an L and asked specifically about how to protect myself and the kids. He said to keep taking screen shots of records and because it is martial debt it will all come out since everything is digital.
I’m trying to figure out the best way to stop doing things for him since D is still in the house and we have family meals occasionally. Also how to get him out of the bedroom for that same reason. Air mattress?
Yesterday was bizarre. H spent the morning doing chores around the house, which he rarely does anymore. We had plans to take the D’s and D(19)’s BF to dinner. But he managed to get a last minute ticket to a wine tasting with the singer, let’s call her (s) and her friends. I was proud of myself for not getting mad, just rolled off my back. But he would be finished before dinner and would meet us. I had my doubts. We ended up eating at the same place that his wine group was at after the tasting due to the waitlist at the place we wanted to go. The D’s chose to do that. I told him he didn’t need to eat with us, but after hanging out with the wine group for quite some time he did finally join us. Kind of. The four of us had a great time and he watched the basketball game. He was very drunk. D(19) offered to drive him home but he wouldn’t let her. So we left. We thought he was behind us but he didn’t come home for another 2 hours. The D’s were very concerned about him. I didn’t bad mouth him just kept quiet. My D(17) finally texted him and asked when he was going to be home. Apparently he’d been sitting in the garage trying to get in touch with (S) because he texted her back “(S) are you wake?” Then he edited it to say yes I’m home. She thought it was funny and showed me. I felt so bad for the D’s. I doubt he remembers. He also told me at dinner that he spent a large amount of money on wine. Not sure if he remembers that or not either or if I’ll ever see it. Do I bring it up?
I’m sorry I’m just complaining but I still feel so lost. Who is this man that I love? I had some friends that also ran into this group last night and they told me today it was like bizzaro world. I don’t know what they saw but hopefully I’m having lunch with one of them this week.
I a brighter note, I had an amazing day with D(19) yesterday shopping. We had an amazing time. A church with D(17) today. H has been less and less interested in church do we go without him and he makes excuses.
I am glad to read that you have seen a lawyer. Do not discuss with him what the lawyer has advised you to do.
Treat him as if he were a roommate for now. Continue fixing meals and if he comes to eat, fine. If he doesn't that is fine too. Try to remember that he is starting to revolt against authority. That means he will begin to look at you as if you are an authority figure, i.e., mother. Eventually, he will resent having to tell you and your children where he is at and with whom.
If he is pressured, he will continue to talk about moving out. If that comes up again, he may consider moving into another room for a bit, but I suspect he will move out. The pressure of trying to be the person that you know, and love will be too much for him. He is very much aware that something is wrong, and he just can't figure out why he feels the way that he does. Depression plans a huge role in MLC.
People are starting to see that he's changing. Eventually, he will leave you, the family, pets, home and friends behind for a while and hook up with new people. Most likely a younger set of friends, divorced/separated friends, etc. This is part of the crisis.
I would not bring up anything that he has said. Listen, observe and file the info away in your memory or come here and write things down.
BTW, you are not complaining, you are trying to figure things out and how to deal with the new person that is living in your h's body. In fact, what is happening is called the mirror image of him. He will do the opposite of what he's done in the past and trust me, you will question your sanity along the way.
I am glad you had an amazing day with your D. Keep the focus on you and your family. Continue to watch the bank accounts and most importantly, come here whenever you need to talk.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Like job said, do not tell H about your lawyer visits or information you are gathering. This also includes DR, this site, DBing strategies, and so on. Why? Because H will see it, craft it, as you trying to manipulate him. Realize, for now, H is not on team bkerchik.
Having that night out described as “bizzaro world” is most apt. And unfortunately, likely just the tip of the bizzaro iceberg.
I know and empathize with how lost you feel. Remember this: You didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him.
H’s crisis is about him. About his past unrealized unreconciled trauma(s). Stuff he doesn’t even know about. Stuff he hid away.
H is driven by his emotions. He will not make well-reasoned logical decisions. Rather he will behave in the moment according to how he feels in the moment. And feelings change rapidly. As will his behaviours, actions, etc.
A crisis person cannot handle blame, judgement, pressure, and such. They simply can’t. Their mind would fracture. So, here they are feelings all these weird and wildly unhappy feelings. Becoming more and more depressed. They wonder why? What’s the cause? Who’s the cause? Remember, they cannot have it be them. So, they look around and see us. Their loving spouse. And incorrectly assign us as the cause.
With time and space, and some good fortune, H may someday realize: “Hey, bk hasn’t been bugging me for quite a while and I still feel unhappy. Hmmmmm. Perhaps she isn’t the cause of my unhappiness.” And with more good fortune, H would start to look inward, to the true cause.
Of course, this takes time. And a person in crisis is actively running from their torment. This running stage, or replay stage - as it’s them trying to replay/relive their youth, is the longest stage in a crisis.
A MLCer is on their time line. Any attempts to speed things along, as well intentioned as that may be, is at best neutral. More often our intervening just delays the crisis, and at worst completely stalls it. H has to walk his path.
And you have to walk your’s. Focus on you and your daughters. Be busy (Get A Life, GAL). Pick up old hobbies and interests you set aside for marriage and family. Start a new hobby, or take a class, or course. Feed your interest and enthusiasm. Walk, exercise, and so on. Keep moving forward.
Hope you have a wonderful day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Today I’m trying to act like a roommate. Even though my H would say that’s how we have been living. This roommate hasn’t offered any random information, which I usually do. We’ve talked when he brings stuff up, it it’s regarding the D, or if the D is involved. I think he thinks I’m mad at him? It’s just very uncharacteristic of me and feels very weird. Is that the right way to do it?
We both worked at home today and I went to the gym over lunch. My gym called him while I was gone, he told me he was concerned that something had happened to me, but they were just trying to get him to join. In the back of my head I’m like what do you care if something happened to me. I didn’t say that of course. I just said it was weird that they called. I’m so confused.
Yep, that’s right. Be kind and cordial. Speak with him (not to him), if/when he brings something up. However, it’s best to steer away from any relationship talks.
To go along with this roommate style. Don’t walk on eggshells. You don’t have to pussy foot around. Live your life. Example: “Hey H, I’m going out. See you in a couple of hours.” And go.
A few 180s from your day to day routine will get noticed. And might stir some interest within H.
Any positive changes you make, ensure you do them for you. Reason: Well, first and foremost, everything here, all advice is for you. For your betterment. So, make changes for you. Secondly, if you make changes for you, they will likely become permanent, and not just be some attempt to win H back.
By the way, H will seeing those positive changes as just that, attempts. And he will likely not believe the sincerity of it. He will also likely craft some narrative as “too little, too late”, blah blah blah. Pay it no heed. Do for you!
Detachment is the single best thing you can do for yourself. This is basically your first step. Being detached is when your emotions are no longer uncontrollably dragged around by the words and/or actions and behaviours of H. The key part of that is: uncontrollably.
When you find detachment you will be able to better influence your emotional state. Yes, you still feel - hurt, sad, anger, etc., but it won’t rule you.
To that, control. You can only control three things: Your thoughts, actions, and reactions. That’s it. Through that direct control of you, you exert influence upon other aspects of your life. This is the path/key to detachment, indifference, acceptance, forgiveness, and much more.
I’m not sure how detached you are presently. Anyhow, a few of helpful strategies. Which work by rewiring our triggers and feedback and reactions to stimulus.
When you feel your emotions running away, imagine a big red stop sign. (MWD, speaks of this in her book DR.) A big red stop sign to place the breaks on your emotions.
Schedule a time to feel. Purposefully take periods of time throughout the day to feel. Cry, get mad, whatever. Scheduling a safe time and space, say five minutes every couple of hours, helps with things not boiling over at some less opportune time. Periodic forcing yourself to feel helps cleave the subconscious triggering and feedback mechanisms. As you get more under control and detached, alter your schedule, less time, less often, until only once before work, then eventually none required.
Sweat it out. Doing something physical really helps. Run, walk, do a workout, dig a garden, shovel snow, and so on. It gives your conscious mind something else to focus on. Don’t worry your subconscious will still be churning away. This strategy is particularly helpful for anger. Sweat it out. Burn it out. For example, go to town on a punching bag. Instead of yelling at H. Get all that anger out in a safe and healthily manner. (Helps with getting a good night sleep too. )
(You may not be in the anger stage just yet. Still, good though.)
Be better, not bitter.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Welcome and so sad you find yourself here. What sort of bike are we talking about? And how did you pick this user name?
How are you feeling today? I see DnJ and job are giving you great advice as they are passing on their hard earned knowledge.
As suggested, follow the advice to let out whatever you are feeling each day, just in the time and place of your choosing. Don’t keep it in. Vent here as much as you want. Don’t feel bad about it or guilty for “complaining.” LET IT OUT. Because it WILL come out and HAVE to be felt sometime or other anyway. Here people understand.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
And bam, in January he BD. I was shocked and in despair, the usual. I thought things were getting better!
Yeah, it seems to be a common thing. The WAS goes quiet and seems better/friendlier and then BD. The explanation I remember is they feel better after picking a direction. They had already given up the R. And no, it’s often not fair when the LBS seemingly had no chance to address the issues. Seemingly. In closer inspection though, the WAS had been trying to give off signals that they needed change. Do they do it well or clearly? No, quite often not. But in their minds they had been trying…
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I did all the wrong things of course. And I did dig into his phone.
Ah, that snooping! I did some too. And in a ton of hours digging through the archives here there are many insightful commenters on the value or not of snooping. Generally it is NOT advised. Why? Because the damage to you when you find details will most times far outweigh the advantage in intel you gain.
Does the knowledge of H having at least an EA with someone change what you need to do? Nope. The only exception I’ve seen in the archives is those who advocated for hard and fast A busting. That will not get your H back. Any future possible reconnection cannot happen with an ongoing A though.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
He doesn’t want to leave until June when our D(17) is done with school.
. But he says oh don’t worry the kids will be fine.
And he only wanted me tell one person other than my therapist.
….
He says, he says, he says…. SO WHAT? Understand he is NOT on team bkerchik right now. This was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around. That no matter how earnest my XW seemed to be, she was knowingly or unknowingly trying to get me to do what was to her advantage and to to alleviate any guilt she had for her choices. It is disconcerting to be unable to rely on discussing important issues with the one person you thought you could trust implicitly. You will have to make up your own mind about each of these and more things. What is bkerchik’s independent opinion? Ask away here for outside opinions.
One of the things I found most useful here is R2C’s threads of quotes from the forums here. I don’t think it is in the pinned threads. This is the 14th one and in the first post are links to the other 13. I recommend going back through them and following the link back to the original thread if it resonates.
Vent here as much as you want. Don’t feel bad about it or guilty for “complaining.” LET IT OUT. Because it WILL come out and HAVE to be felt sometime or other anyway. Here people understand.
I second this.
I find that sometimes the things I need to let go of are easier to process once I've put them into words, written them down (here or elsewhere) and got someone else's perspective on them.
You'll change a lot over the next while. Lean into it.
I’m a road biker (pedaling 😀) I used to go on a long ride at least once a week. Don’t know why I stopped. The day I started this thread I took my bike in for a tune up. I can’t wait to get it back and fit the weather to warm up so I can get out again.
Yesterday was rough for no apparent reason. Part of the ups and downs I guess. I felt like nothing I was doing was going to help. That H is just going to thinking I’m “keeping the peace” again. I guess it doesn’t matter. I started using the “stop sign” but a little differently. Whenever I think of H and the OW I put up a stop sign and say I can’t control this so stop. Does it work? Sometimes. Detachment is SO hard. I try to remind myself that he is only thinking of himself right now and this new happy life he thinks hes getting.
I’ve been GALing more than I have in a long time. I have a friend to totally gets what I’m trying to do and is 100% behind me. So we talk a lot and go out regularly. Others don’t get it, sadly. But I know they love me and support me. But I’m getting out. Going to take some free online history classes just for fun. Yes I’m weird. We have a big school fundraiser this weekend. Will he go? I don’t know. I’m not asking. I’m going no matter what.
What I don’t get is why he cares how I am. “You okay” that ones stopped a little. The concern over getting a call from my gym while I was there. At a soccer game and he’s concerned that I’m cold. Is that him just getting over his guilt?
I know I need to stop worrying about what he wants. My C says the same thing. I guess I’m just focused on the kids and him right now, but trying to get better about focusing on me. I read somewhere to do something you can control first thing in the morning. Make your bed. So that’s what I do, at least my side. I’ve also started showering first thing. I know that sounds silly but before I would get it done right before I would have to for the day.
Any advice on detachment would be amazing. One of the Quotes I found was if he says five words you say three. I’ve read DR, how to survive your husbands midlife crisis, when a mate wants out and the shut out wife, need to read them all again.
I don’t know if I’m going this quote thing right or not. I’m doing this on my phone so I have more control over things.
Originally Posted by grok
That no matter how earnest my XW seemed to be, she was knowingly or unknowingly trying to get me to do what was to her advantage and to to alleviate any guilt she had for her choices. It is disconcerting to be unable to rely on discussing important issues with the one person you thought you could trust implicitly.
This has been so disheartening. I was having trouble with work right before BD and he offered to help me look around for a new job. Did he really want to “help” or just want to find a job where I could make more money.
I told him I had a lawyer I was going to use to help me through mitigation. He couldn’t figure out why. Well, I don’t know what I don’t know and I don’t trust myself signing something that will affect my life this much without help. He says well it’s my life too. By then I knew better, so I told him he could get his own lawyer then too. He says but it’s just so expensive. Yep dude, it is. You want this not me. I didn’t say that I just agreed. Yes, it will be expensive.
After making life decisions together for 25 years it’s hard to understand.
The sadness comes in waves. Wondering how I will get through Easter without losing it. Trying to only open my mouth when talked to or in response to something about the D’s. He’s been offering up information and asking what my day looks like. We are both in sales so day to day changes and we need to make sure someone can pick up or D from wherever. Normally that would something I do. Certainly not reading into it but I think it’s interesting.
Any ideas for 180’s?
Thanks for everyone’s input! I’m so glad I found you all!
Last edited by DnJ; 04/10/2504:15 PM. Reason: Corrected quote syntax.
You were close on the quoting; just missed the [/quote].
Here is a link on quoting and other helpful commands and their syntax/structure. It’s also a sticky thread - those blue threads on the top of main page - for easy reference.
I thought I had a good couple days DB’ing. Treating him like a roommate, only engaging when engaged or about the D’s. And one little comment asking me if I’ve told a certain friend what’s going on and I lose after he’s left for the night for band practice. I know this is a marathon, but sometimes I just want it to be better now. And sometimes I think it never will be better. I’m really concerned about Easter.
Such a roller coaster!!! I thought I had a good couple days DB’ing. Treating him like a roommate, only engaging when engaged or about the D’s. And one little comment asking me if I’ve told a certain friend what’s going on and I lose after he’s left for the night for band practice. I know this is a marathon, but sometimes I just want it to be better now. And sometimes I think it never will be better. I’m really concerned about Easter.
Holidays are tough. There are really no ways around only thru. Make some space in your day to grief. If you don't feel like going through the motions of making a big meal or whatever - don't. Maybe take a bike ride.
As for your H - he is going to try and control the narrative. This is to control his own guilt and validate his actions.
Let him get mad about you telling your friends (if you did). Let him get upset about a lawyer. Get used to the venom and temper tantrums. He needs blame and fuel for the fire. Snuff it out.
Anytime he asks why... simply say.
"I am accepting your decision to leave the marriage"
Leave it that. Don't engage. Repeat to him as many times as necessary until he stops.
And then for you - you work towards that. Whether that's kicking him out of the MB, separating finances, etc. It will be the most difficult thing you will do. It will be a process.
And it will eventually be okay.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
Holidays, anniversaries, birthdays, and other special days are difficult. Also, these events usually stir up one’s spouse.
Don’t be surprised if H appears to engaging in family time, or more conversations, etc. Remember, he is emotionally driven, he wants to feel that old familiar family time and doesn’t want to feel like the bad guy. It’s quite confusion and an LBS can get pretty mixed up with such mixed signals.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
What I don’t get is why he cares how I am. “You okay” that ones stopped a little. The concern over getting a call from my gym while I was there. At a soccer game and he’s concerned that I’m cold. Is that him just getting over his guilt?
Most do feel guilty and do try to assuage their feelings. (Again, not wanting to be the bad guy.) The form their effort takes varies. Know that this time of guilty feeling is short term and rather tenuous. Don’t read too much in it.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I read somewhere to do something you can control first thing in the morning. Make your bed. So that’s what I do, at least my side. I’ve also started showering first thing. I know that sounds silly but before I would get it done right before I would have to for the day.
Absolutely!
Yes, making your bed first thing sets your day up in your manner. Starts you off on the right foot.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
This has been so disheartening. I was having trouble with work right before BD and he offered to help me look around for a new job. Did he really want to “help” or just want to find a job where I could make more money.
Or both?
Or neither?
Does it matter?
Do you want a different job? If yes, then do so. If no, then don’t.
As for H’s motives, one cannot know the truth of someone else. However, plenty of these folks’ intentions are for self interest; and yes a spouse with better income does have a financial benefit in a divorce.
Again, it matters not. Do for you.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I told him I had a lawyer I was going to use to help me through mitigation. He couldn’t figure out why. Well, I don’t know what I don’t know and I don’t trust myself signing something that will affect my life this much without help. He says well it’s my life too. By then I knew better, so I told him he could get his own lawyer then too. He says but it’s just so expensive. Yep dude, it is. You want this not me. I didn’t say that I just agreed. Yes, it will be expensive.
- I’m don’t know how serious in mitigation/negotiation you two are; or how far along the process you are. However, some suggestions/advice:
- This is the business side of this stuff. Treat is as so. Treat it as a business deal gone sideways; which it is.
- Do not share information with H. If he wants to blab and tell you things, listen. You, however, be silent.
- As mentioned, H is presently within a time of feeling guilty and will try to assuage it. Lots of these folks will make better deals during this period. It doesn’t last for very long.
- Definitely do not sign anything before your lawyer looks it over. (Well done!)
- Also, good for you having your own lawyer. Do not have a shared lawyer. Having your own L, means they are fully looking after your interests. And for most people this is the biggest financial decision of their life.
- Know your priorities and wants. What you are willing to let go, what you don’t really care about, and what you are willing to fight tooth and nail for. Do not share this with H!
- Do not presume H’s list of wants and priorities. Let him tell you. Let him lead the negotiating. You will likely be surprised at what he values. Lots of these folks are willing to forgo money/assets/custody to get their way. In that vein, if you bring something up, if it’s not their idea, they usually fight it. Especially an MLCer. Heck, they fight against their own proposals.
H is on his path. Do not place boulders in his way, the faster he walks it, the faster he is done. Also, don’t pave his path in gold either.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
Such a roller coaster!!!
I thought I had a good couple days DB’ing. Treating him like a roommate, only engaging when engaged or about the D’s. And one little comment asking me if I’ve told a certain friend what’s going on and I lose after he’s left for the night for band practice. I know this is a marathon, but sometimes I just want it to be better now. And sometimes I think it never will be better. I’m really concerned about Easter.
Yes, it’s a rollercoaster for a bit. Keep focusing on you and the daughters; and step off the coaster for a while.
Yes, this is a marathon, not a sprint.
What is concerning you about Easter? (What are you fearing?)
H being there? H not being there? A big argument at the table? Your emotions boiling over? Having to prepare the meal? And so on…
Most stuff we fear, never comes to pass. And for that which does, it is not longer a fear, rather it becomes a problem to work through.
Fear lives in the possibilities, live in the future. We don’t fear something that is currently happening. (Or has happened.) We fear what might happen. And that, only lives in our mind. Let go your fear. Live in the present and let the unknown and unwritten future unfurl on its time.
You will make it through Easter. And you will control what you can control: your thoughts, actions, and reactions.
I keep reminding myself over and over that I can’t control him. I can’t fix him. But sometimes it’s just overwhelming.
We haven’t started the mitigation process at all yet. Don’t have a L for it yet. Told H to pick out a few and when he was ready we would do a consultation. If they are going to do mitigation I want to approve as well. But I have my individual L picked out when the time is right. I’m not pushing. I’m not asking. I’m not talking about what I believe is financial infidelity.
The lease is signed and his apartment will be ready June 7th. I think that’s what hit me this week.
Need to continue to do things for me. He is going to the fundraiser tonight but I probably won’t see much of him. I’ll be with my friends having a blast!
Honestly the thing I’m worried the most about for Easter is church. I cry easily…I hate it! And I’m worried about getting through without biting my tongue off which is what i usually do when I start to get emotional. He’s also playing in the church band that day and guess who’s singing. He’s making dinner he’ll act like nothing is going on. I’m not too worried about that.
You all are amazing. I started going through some of the quotes on the link that grok sent me which have been great. Also read midlife crisis for dummies. Wow.
You are so right that you can't control him, nor can you fix him because you didn't break him. The only one that can right his world is the man up above.
Easter is going to be difficult, but you will get through it. If you need to cry, do it. There is no shame in shedding tears. In fact, they are healing in their own way. Once he is in his apartment, the stress and tension will ease up in your home a bit. He may not push too hard to settle things up and just let things ride for a bit. The more you push, the harder he will pull away. You are doing the right thing in not pushing. Many people don't realize that the more you question them, the more they will distance themselves and lie.
Holidays and special events are difficult. When I went through this years ago, my xh would surface and make life difficult on those particular days/times. It was like he didn't want me to be happy and wanted to remind me he was out there.
Continue as you have been. You are doing well for someone who still has an alien living in the home. Make a list of things that you would like to do and go for it.
Hang in there. This is not a sprint, but a marathon. Sending lots of positive thoughts your way today.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi. I’m heartbroken to see you have joined an unpopular club. A warm club nonetheless. People here are really great.
I just wanted to share with you that I agree that crying at church is acceptable. I found myself a new church (building) with very dim lighting. I wear my long hair down and allow it to cover my face so that no one else can see it. I’ve cried at many masses. It’s ok. Sending you hugs from afar.
The fundraiser was amazing. Had a blast with our (maybe soon to be my) friends. H wanted to leave before most people and I didn’t want to go yet. So I got a ride from a friend. I never would have done that before.
But now I’m back grieving. I almost started crying today at the gym. Thankful I ran into my trainer (he knows what’s going on) and we talked a bit and made me feel better. Don’t worry about him being an OM. I’m old enough to be his mom. He’s a good kid and he and my workout partner take care of me.
Anyway.. I think I’m having a hard time getting this June 7th date out of my head. That and for some reason I’m feeling like I need to apologize for my share of this. After BD I apologized profusely, but never anything specific. Is this even a good idea?
And I’m just sad you know. I know you guys do. I can’t thank you guys enough for your support.
I’m glad you enjoyed the fundraiser. Good job remaining there even though H wanted to, and did, leave.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I think I’m having a hard time getting this June 7th date out of my head. That and for some reason I’m feeling like I need to apologize for my share of this. After BD I apologized profusely, but never anything specific. Is this even a good idea?
I’d suggest not apologizing further. You’ve already apologized. Leave it be.
If something “specific” comes up, and it has credence, certainly own your part and give a sincere apology. Once. Do not want to beat it to death.
When other blames come up, things you are not culpable for, let them slide. No need to fight to try to get H to see your side. Just validate his feelings and move on. “H, I’m sorry you feel that way.”
Go about becoming your best version of yourself. Fix your side of the street. Whatever you apologized for, make changes. Make them permanent. Do them for you. Become bkerchik2.0. A woman only a fool would leave.
Don’t tell H of your changes and work. He won’t believe it anyhow. Besides it’s for you. Just leave him to notice your positive changes.
Leave the topic of June 7th alone. (I mean no talks/pleading with H, not living in denial.) Focus on you. Get organized and prepared. There will be two households. H has stated he is serious about this. Ensure you have things in order for you and the kids.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I agree w/DnJ. You do not need to apologize again. You have already done it previously. Continue to work on you. You do not need to tell him of your changes and what you are working on. Trust me, he wouldn't believe you...but stay quiet about them...for he will begin to see those changes and he will then test you to see if those changes are real or if you are just trying to win him back.
Be the best that you can be and be pleased and proud of your changes. It's sad that we all have to go through on this journey, but it does make us stronger and we do come out the other side far wiser and happier with ourselves.
I also agree that June 7th should not be your focus. In fact, that day, have you considered not being home when he packs or will you remain there to ensure he doesn't take things that he shouldn't? Sure, it is going to be sad, but the tension in your home will lessen once he has left home and to go to his new place. He's like a young man moving out of his parents' home for the first time. He'll be excited and I can assure you that feeling will not last long. He may surprise you be at your home more than you think.
For now, keep the focus on you and your family. Keep working out and it's okay to talk to a close friend about the situation. Hang in there!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
So this will be interesting. School doesn’t end until June 11th. So if he does tell the D’s before that our D(17) will have to go through finals with that knowledge. Not sure what he’ll do there. I’m not bringing it up.
Moving. I’d hadn’t thought about it much. I will not help him pack or move. If the D’s want to help that will be up to them. I’m sure there will be things that we will need to discuss what stays and what goes. Do I make him take all his crap? I’ve been taking pictures of all his band equipment so I have asset records. Lots of money there.
So eventually, maybe, if he does come around do I let him? I need to read DR again.
Get riding! and let us know how it goes. I was always the mountain bike type. I started up again after BD...though often riding it on street rides. LOL. A new friend I made introduced me to Critical Mass night time group rides and from their I branched out.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
That and for some reason I’m feeling like I need to apologize for my share of this. After BD I apologized profusely, but never anything specific. Is this even a good idea?
Originally Posted by DnJ
I’d suggest not apologizing further. You’ve already apologized. Leave it be.
If something “specific” comes up, and it has credence, certainly own your part and give a sincere apology. Once.
Originally Posted by job
I agree w/DnJ. You do not need to apologize again. You have already done it previously.
^THIS^
Though let me add another reason. Which I only understood many many months later.
I was ...
BARGANING
Behind my apologizing for every hurt identified by my XW was multiple motives. One of which was bargaining. A covert contract attempt. ...if I make her know I'm sorry, she will give our M another chance...
Was it right to apologize? Yes for the elements I was responsible for...but only those. Also, it won't be believed unless accompanied by behavior changes ... again that are done for yourself ... or again it's bargaining.
Behind all that was also the disentangling of her claimed hurts... which she was processing/feeling through the lens of an EA+? Understanding what is truely my problems to work on and what were the distortions an extramarital relationship brings. It has been a slow process as in the beginning I trusted every word she spoke.
g
H:55 XW:50 D19, D18, S13 ILYBINILWY 3/23 DB1 4/23, rescinded 5/23, DB2 6/23 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-5 & W leaves 8/23 – 3/24 Settlement 5/24, Court 9/11/24 <-, D 9/16/24
H decided he wanted to have an “update today”. The lease will begin on June 9th. He had the date wrong. He’s signing it. When he told me it sounded like a question. So I asked. Are you asking me or telling me. Well I guess I’m telling you. He does want to tell the girls until after school is over…good. H also mentioned that he hates bring this stuff up because he knows how much pain it causes me. I told him we were a little past him hurting me. I don’t know if that was the right thing. He also mentioned how much anxiety this is causing him. I don’t remember what I said but tried to emphasize. Any recommendations there? I didn’t want to say sorry to hear that. He’s causing his own anxiety. (Which I recently found out he’s been struggling with for awhile, never told me). He wears quite the mask. Also wants to have a consult with a mediation lawyer next week.
I didn’t cry even though I really want to. Now I probably will, but not in front of him. I was calm. No yelling, complaining or anything like that. He was probably surprised.
He also mentioned that he would be living with only a few things because he needs to save money. Ha. Since when? Obviously I didn’t say that just listened. And that he would take him some time to move out. I have no idea what that means and I didn’t ask.
One thing that’s been weird lately is that he keeps calling himself stupid. Stupid stupid stupid. He has while he’s been working and last night after getting home from a trip he said it after complaining about his hotel room. And he came home day early. Says he’s sick. Sorry throat. Don’t know what to believe. Anyway not reading into it I just think it’s weird.
I still feel like I’m going all the wrong things. Giving space, only bring up D stuff, only talking when he brings stuff up. Not getting emotional…in front of him.
I was calm. No yelling, complaining or anything like that. He was probably surprised.
Good for you!
Be a grey rock when dealing with him.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
He also mentioned how much anxiety this is causing him. I don’t remember what I said but tried to emphasize. Any recommendations there? I didn’t want to say sorry to hear that. He’s causing his own anxiety. (Which I recently found out he’s been struggling with for awhile, never told me).
It’s ok to let his statements go without comment. There was no question that needed answering.
H is not acting like a husband, doesn’t want to be part of things with you, so he loses you as an emotional support person. He needs to feel the loss.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
Also wants to have a consult with a mediation lawyer next week.
Be business-like.
I’m not a fan of this idea of some nicey nice mediation process. Separation/divorce rips apart families and the martial union. Society and the legal system has become frighteningly efficient and effective at divorce. Ensure you don’t get swept along in this misguided hurried effort.
Personally, I’d have my lawyer just respond to my spouse’s lawyers written terms. Negotiating back and forth until a settlement is reached. Really don’t need a third party mediator as the law is pretty clear. Basically everything is 50/50. That is the starting point. Going forward from there most things are able to be negotiated or even waived, aside from a few mandatory items.
Mediation hides the carnage and pain the leaving spouse is causing. It allows them to sidestep their feelings of being the bad guy. Provides a layer of insulation for accountability and responsibility. They can fall back on “well, you were there, and this is what we came up with”.
There is no “we” here. You don’t want a divorce. You are getting dragged along. So, let H do the heavy lifting! “H, I’m not going to mediation. Have your lawyer send my lawyer your signed written proposal and I’ll review it. If it is acceptable, I’ll sign.”
The long and short of it: You cannot stop a divorce. If H wants out, he can.
However, you can control what you do. What process you’ll follow. Make H craft a fair reasonable (or better) settlement and send it to your lawyer.
People do tend to get panicked when lawyers get involved. The truth, lawyers are going to need to get involved at some point. I think of my L as who he is: A legal expert. Someone who knows the law.
I’m fairly intelligent. Yet, during my divorce I was a mess. I’d have likely made some bad deals if I’d not had my L. Also, the myriad of legal items and rights and such with undoing a marriage was astounding. Seriously, there were over a dozen items I’d never even heard of.
An example, homestead act. This gives each partner a life time estate in the marital home (the homestead). It’s for protection of the family and the spouse. They cannot be evicted, even if the house is solely owned by the other partner. You can see how this right needs to be waived during a divorce if one is buying the other out. If they won’t waive, then the house has to be sold and proceeds split. And if you miss getting this waived, it prevents future sale as the ex-spouse has rights to the homestead. That would be a bad position to get one’s self into.
As an aside, that is the position OM has likely gotten himself into. (They are considered common law married.) XW cannot be evicted from his home. Ever. If OM were to die, his son would inherit the home. And not be able to sell it as XW is protected to live there for as long as she wishes to.
These legal minefields exist. In this particular case, a “before they move in” cohabitation agreement is needed, or rental agreement. A written documented account. I found this out, when I was asking my L, what if XW wanted to come back. How would I protect myself. Cohabitation agreement.
Anyhow, that’s just one of many worms in the can of worms.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I still feel like I’m doing all the wrong things. Giving space, only bring up D stuff, only talking when he brings stuff up. Not getting emotional…in front of him.
Yes, it is counterintuitive and will feel wrong for a while. You are doing well. Stick to the path.
Now, I cannot guarantee DB will save your marriage. However, it will save you! And DB, IMHO, gives you the best chance at saving your marriage.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I do have my own L picked out. I believe that he wants to do mediation because it’s cheaper. But I won’t sign or agree to anything without consulting my L and I will talk to him about the process if we both just use our own L’s. I don’t know what H’s plans are for an individual L.
Had my IC appointment today. She was glad to hear I was messaging you guys. And that I have some friends that get what I’m doing. Well they don’t really understand it (I think until you’ve looked into anything like DB’ing you are clueless about it) but are supporting me. Thinks I’m doing well for how things are even though I don’t feel like it.
I need to keep reminding myself that most of what he’s doing right now is out of guilt. It looks so much like he’s being nice. I’m sure he’ll have his happy family man face on this weekend.
I hope everyone had a good Easter. Good Friday went the way it thought it would …I cried. My D17 told me it was okay because she cried last year. I love that girl! Easter was good and felt so normal I could have screamed.
It baffles me how he can just pretend things are okay. I guess to a certain extent I am too for now. I just loose it on my own time. I think that’s what confuses me the most. He acts like nothing has happened, even when it’s just the two of us in the house. I know it’s probably guilt but it’s so nuts! And we don’t fight. The closest we’ve come to that was BD. And then voices weren’t even raised. Disagree, yes, but I can’t remember the last time we had a real fight. Since I dropped giving him a hard time about spending so much time with the band, like 3-4 years ago, it’s stopped. Of course he thought I did that to “keep the peace”, not because I actually cared.
Anyway, DBing the best I can. I’m trying so hard to stay positive around him but sometimes I struggle and I don’t want to look like I’m moping. I converse when things are brought up. I don’t even tell him what I’m doing for the day unless he asks. And I don’t ask him unless I need to know for D pick up. He will just tell me. Not sure if he is pulling away more because of that. It all feels wrong and I know it’s supposed to. I also talked to my Dr and got a script to help me sleep. That has been huge.
Got my bike back from its tune up! Now I need the weather to not be crappy so I can get out!
It does feel very wrong . It will feel that way for quite awhile .
Oh how I feel for you with the lack of a real fight . Look at it a different though . You have grown to not allow yourself to even get to that point . Same here I took back control of how I handle my emotions and what allow around my children . I wasn’t much of a yeller to begin with but was a push over . Took a long time to balance getting my point across in just a few words and most of it not being negotiable. Boundaries . Your H saying it was to keep the peace is just an excuse . Ignore it . Really just ignore it . They say all types of craziness .
Just a few words of advice when he asks what you have planned . I used to be an oversharer. Keep it short . I have plans or errands . I have a little name I call it . Ghost mode . I just drop off . If it was not kid related that needed attention I would not respond . I will always respond to my children though .
It’s very sad . Even while I’m somewhat I would say in repair . I am a way different person .
It’s been I think about 8-9 months for BD for me . Some of the things that I can tell you that have slowly come out when H does talk are : you gave me space , you didn’t pressure me , you didn’t need or want anything from me , you were rock solid if I stayed or left . Very different than the spew he spit out with a list of everything I did wrong . I get a lot more of he’s fearful I will boot him .
Hang in there . It’s a long haul . Sending you hugs and kisses .
I am definitely an oversharer, which is why I think this is so hard for me. I also used to tell H pretty much everything. I miss that. Had a good weekend. Pretty much ran errands and did things I wanted to do. D17 had junior prom. She had SO much fun! So happy for her. Just went with a group of friends. So I felt pretty good this weekend and know I feel like I’ve gotten dumped back into bizzaro world.
A large majority of the posters are fixers. Sharing with someone who has "left the building" is difficult because you now need to step back and only share some of what you use to share with him. It is difficult I know...but you can't share everything with him at this time. You can share what's happening with the children and bills (if need be), but what is going on in your life...share with a close friend. He needs to miss you and be curious in order for him to one day rethink what he has done and question whether he did the right thing.
You are doing just fine. We are all here for you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Had a great weekend though. Got a bunch of yard work done. H actually mowed the lawn. I honestly wasn’t sure he would. Thought he’s just wait until I couldn’t stand it any more and I would do it.
Some very good friends of ours had a party Saturday night that we went to together. It was weird because I’d catch him looking at me all the time. It feels like he’s going this more. I don’t know, whatever, I had a blast with my friends. One of the hosts kept talking about this group of friends being family. I’m like oh you just wait.
Also had a weird experience with a birthday party. He told me he was going to go play golden tee or wherever it is he goes, I don’t ask, and I told him I was going to the party. He kind of shrugged it off because he’s not a big fan of the bday boy. Kinda made fun at me for going. I shrugged it off. Before he left he told me that if I was still out by a certain time he might join me. I’m like sure right. He actually did. That was kind of weird.
I know he’s noticed the some of the changes I’ve made. He made his side of the bed the other day. Having my morning routine has been huge. Some mornings I really don’t feel like doing it but it makes me feel better.
I think the fact that he acts like everything is normal is making me the craziest. June is right around the corner and I feel like I’m running out of time. He hasn’t brought up meeting with any mediation lawyer and I don’t ask. Just trying to keep my chin up and make improvements on myself.
I was doing some reading today and found this..see if I can do this quote thing right
Quote
You both have questions about 180's and the Last Resort Technique- Can they go too far?
Look, the important part of doing a 180 is introducing the unexpected into your interactions. This doesn't mean that you should completely withdraw. Nor does the LRT mean that either. Doing the LRT means stopping the begging, pleading, pursuing, getting a grip on your own life and being more upbeat. But if your spouse starts to take an interest, that's a good sign and you should be available. Not clingy, mind you, but interested.
I think it might be tempting to back off completely and stop having contact because it might feel safer not to interact at all.But neither technique suggest your doing that. Re-read page 130. I wrote that if your spouse starts to show interest, readers should "Be loving in return, but do not become overly excited or enthusiastic."
But the bottom line is this, the proof is in the pudding. If your spouse is responding lovingly, you're on the right track. If not, you have to finetune what you're doing. Hope this helps. Do re-read the section on the last resort technique. Okay? Michele
I feel like I’m withdrawing when I give short answers and be vague about things. Am I doing this right? Do I just need to be more positive when I reply. So more positive but short answers? If he brings up conversations do I engage or keep things short? I’m so confused.
I’m glad you attended the party and had a good time. And yes, it is quite likely H is watching and noticing you. LRT, 180s, focusing on you, GAL, and such all help with:
Quote
stopping the begging, pleading, pursuing, getting a grip on your own life and being more upbeat.
All of which you are doing.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I feel like I’m withdrawing when I give short answers and be vague about things. Am I doing this right? Do I just need to be more positive when I reply. So more positive but short answers? If he brings up conversations do I engage or keep things short? I’m so confused.
You’re ok. It is confusing.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I think the fact that he acts like everything is normal is making me the craziest. June is right around the corner and I feel like I’m running out of time. He hasn’t brought up meeting with any mediation lawyer and I don’t ask. Just trying to keep my chin up and make improvements on myself.
Having no answers, H’s acting like everything is normal, is bizarre. Of course you’ll feel confused.
What helps. Control.
That is controlling what you can control - you. Your thoughts, actions, and reactions. (Keeping your chin up and making improvements on yourself. For yourself.)
Let go what is in H’s grip. Time will tell his course.
Yes, June is just around the corner. However, you are not running out of time. You. Your time. Your course. Your life. Lots left!
True, your situation may change. Yet, you will be fine. Truthfully, likely better than fine.
H is so lost that he cannot realize what he is loosing, and he needed to feel that loss.
Continue to be kind and cordial with H. Short, direct, answers. Your positivity comes from within. Comes from your life. Your positive life. That will reflect in everything you do and say. It will be noticed in your behaviour at party or in a short reply to a question. Because you are doing it for you. For you. Because of you. (Not some attempt at winning him back.)
Sincere. Genuine. Honest. Loyal. Strength of character. Now, that is an interesting person.
Be who you want to be, because you want to be. Be kind and compassionate. The chip will fall as they will. You only can control your side of the street in all this. (((Hugs)))
Have faith.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Last week we found out that my FIL was in the hospital. He’s been dealing with pneumonia snd they decided to admit him while he comes off his blood thinners before they put in a drain. Monday the put in the drain and early Tuesday morning he’s in the ICU puking. So H found out first thing Tuesday morning when his brother calls and just said dad is in the ICU call mom. He’s freaking out a little bit before he calls and basically says “I can’t deal with this right now” (not sure what that meant, didn’t ask) and he calls his mom. They were running tests and will know more but he’s fine, they think it’s an ulcer. H is still freaking out so I gave him a hug and told him if he needed to talk I was there. I said I know. I’m not sure if that was the right thing to do, but it felt like I needed to at the time. Then the rest of the day he’s super crabby until D17 gets home and then the next day too. Not towards me necessarily just in general towards work
Today his brother got his prostrate removed because cancer was found. Needless to say he’s been a little stressed the past few days. Dad had an ulcer and he’s moving around. I haven’t seen him much today but everytime he gives me an update on everyone he seems irritable. Just weird. Stress? MLC? Showing it to me but doesn’t around D so she doesn’t see how he’s effected?
We go up to visit D19 on Sunday for Mother’s Day. Should be an interesting 2 1/2 hr drive. H took D17 to the store last night to “go shopping” aka get me a card or something. At least I’ll get something. Really excited to visit D19 at school. Can’t believe she’ll be home for the summer soon.
Busy weekend coming up. Lots of GAL’ing going on which I’m excited about.
Monday I’ll probably feel terrible again. M day has always been rough since my m passed away almost 5 yrs ago.
Yesterday…So I’m on my way to the gym over lunch and I’m making myself some lunch to take because I had a meeting right after. I told him I was going to see my dad for his birthday and asked if he wanted to go. He said no. I said okay. Then a conversation about my dad’s house starts which is long story but something we both agree on. Just talking. Then he brings up leaving. Asks if I’ve talked to any lawyers since we talked last…nope. He hasn’t done anything either. He said I know you put that on me to do. Yep I did…I nod. Says he probably won’t be moving in June, thinks he’s jumped the gun in the lease. Thinks July. I just said okay. He says but we’ll be paying for it and I’m not there….so. I told him yep we’re paying for it but it doesn’t mean that’s the deadline for you to move. There’s no timeline. It’s up to you. Then he asked if he should tell d19 next week when she gets home from school and ask her to keep it to herself. I said absolutely not. That would be SO unfair to her. So I think July? Never said. Didn’t ask. Thought maybe he’d start moving stuff in June. I told him that if he starts moving stuff the kids will notice. So when we ended the conversation he said something like, okay no deadlines good. Then he tells me how surreal this is. I agreed. Says he can’t sleep and his stomach is messed up and feels like he can’t be happy because he’s so stressed out. I ask about what. He’s says “everything”. I said you don’t have to tell me but if you want can you be more specific. He’s says he stressed about telling people and then stops and says something like I know you’re not a therapist and stops talking. I said right but I can listen. Says he’s worried about telling the kids. He said you said it was on me…nodding my head…I say yes but I’ll be there. Then he asks “what am I going to tell them”…I shrug.. “what am I going to tell my parents?”…I shrug. “I’m going to ruin lives.” Yes you are. I wanted to yell then why are you doing this!!! But I just say “I understand why you’d be stressed about that.” I started crying when he mentioned the kids. I apologized got a tissue and stopped crying. He told me never to apologize for crying that he’s been crying too. Again wanted to scream. But said nothing. I told him my position hasn’t changed. I haven’t seen him like that in a long time and I don’t ever think that stressed. Now he’ll probably retreat again because he’ll be upset he said all that. He hasn’t opened up like that in forever. Not reading into it. No expectations. Then my d19 texted about the dates we would normally be going on vacation in July. And are we going anywhere for the 4th. He gave her the dates but said he didn’t know about the 4th.
So I guess this will be more interesting. Our 25th wedding anniversary is June 3rd. The kids especially D19 is going to remember that. We usually always go somewhere for the 4th as well. What will happen there…not asking. Today he’s acting like nothing is wrong again…not surprised.
I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. He is one confused man who really and truly doesn't understand what is going on within himself. I am not surprised that the move has now been postponed. As long as you can go with the flow and not pressure him into doing anything, he may very well continue as he has been and not move out.
As for telling the children, that is on him to explain what is going on. You get it! Yes, it is on him to retain a lawyer and get the ball rolling since he's the one that wants out of the marriage.
Hang in there! I think for someone very new to this yo-yo ride, you are doing well. If you need to cry, then do so. Tears help us heal.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Mother’s Day was amazing! I had some tears heading up to see D19. H knows it’s a tough holiday for me. D17 gave me a great card and D19 got me flowers. I actually got a happy Mother’s Day from H which was more than expected honestly. Had a nice meal and a tour of campus. D17 is going to be looking at schools this summer so she wanted to check things out. Hopefully hearing about H and I won’t totally sidetrack her. Moved a bunch of stuff out of the dorm. H complained a lot but I was determined just to enjoy the beautiful day with my girls. Then H actually grilled out when we got home. His idea. He hadn’t done that yet and we used to almost every Sunday. Hung out on the patio like nothing was wrong.
Had a pretty good week. D19 is home. It’ll be nice to have her back this summer. Today for whatever reason I couldn’t get the thought of “I wonder how much of my life the past few years was a complete lie.” Shouldn’t think way. I’ll never know and probably better I don’t.
D19 has been asking about July 4th again. I stay out of it. H says we probably will stay home. I know D19 wants to anyway but he may have some pushback from D17. I’m not pushing, not talking about the future or the R, but I wonder if these conversations with the D’s about summer will push him. Will it get taken out on me and he’ll leave. I’m trying to even tell myself that there is a good chance he’ll still leave in June. Was that conversation a lie. I seem to be questioning everything.
The past few days he seems more irritable. Mostly with the dog. Then when D17 tells him to calm down he’ll kind of go off. Not yelling just making comments. I keep quiet and shrug. She’s okay. I check in when he’s not around.
Saturday will be tough to see my dad. He has no idea. Will probably tell him H is golfing. And Sunday it’ll be five years since my mom passed. Going to just try to enjoy my dad and hanging with the girls.
I’m glad to hear Mother’s Day went well. Time with daughters, some nice gifts, a BBQ; glad you enjoyed the day.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I’m not pushing, not talking about the future or the R, but I wonder if these conversations with the D’s about summer will push him. Will it get taken out on me and he’ll leave.
Good for you. Remain clear of all that.
Fate will push and prod H. Let others say what they will.
H might try to lash out at you. Let it roll off you. You keep doing you, focusing on you and the D’s, and let H own his choices. Let him, make him, do the heavy-lifting if he is going to leave.
Hope you have a great weekend.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
It’s been a little over a week since H came to me and said he wouldn’t be leaving until July. This morning I come downstairs to grab some breakfast. H is down there. He’s up early. I wish I could remember exactly what he said, but I think it was somewhere along the lines of “I want to run something by you”. Okay. He tells me that he wants to wait until after the summer is over to move out and he is going to try to get out of his lease. He’s asks if that’s okay. I said yes. He said that everything little thing about the kids and their questions about this summer is really stressing him out. Asking about vacation, the 4th. He said every time something like that comes up it stresses him out. And again, how do I tell them. He says he’s thinking about the family. The kids, our parents, but not once are the two of us mentioned. I told him it was no problem if he stayed it was his decision when he leaves. He said he wanted to make sure it was okay, cause I could just want him out, said he didn’t know. I said no I’m not kicking you out. This is fine.
And just earlier in the morning I thought it was weird because I noticed him saying “we” more often and that it’s weird that he is willing to meet with the guy to fix our ac. All things like that house related I’ve had to do cause he’d kinda been checked out if living here.
I almost brought up our m during this conversation but I stopped myself. Even if I was to bring it up he was definitely not in a good place to talk about it this morning. And I told him last week that my position hasn’t changed. I didn’t want to keep bringing that up. I really don’t know what to make of any of this and I really don’t want to read anything into it. Don’t know if I even believe it. Is he saying these things to see if I keep up my changes? No expectations right? I’m thinking i continue on as I have been. Working on myself, no R talk. But I’m very confused.
Yes, the behaviours of these mixed up folks can be very confusing. They ping pong about, and can abruptly alter direction. Case in point, H’s plans about leaving. He pas postponed them, twice, and now is looking to get out of his lease.
Why? Hard to know for sure. Your changes, problems in the band, life pushing back on him, fate, karma, realizing what he would be missing/leaving/losing, etc.
You are wise to be wary and keep your expectations at zero. Time will tell.
Keep doing as you are. Be kind and cordial. Pressure-free. Focusing on you. Living your life. And letting H run to catch up.
You got this!
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Today I keep overthinking why he asked me if it was okay to stay. I just told him a week ago that my position hadn’t changed. Was he being thoughtful or did he want me to kick him out so I was the bad guy? I know I can’t control him or know what on earth is going through his head. Just venting.
Your h is a very confused man. The many questions and concerns that your daughters are raising are stressing him out a bit. As long as you remain calm and not get into the middle of their discussions, things should be ok. He needs to interact with the girls and they continue to give him things to think about.
I am not at all surprised that he is staying until July and then coming back around till after the summer. He asked you if it was okay to stay. Maybe he hoped you would tell him to leave so that he could say that you shoved him out the door. There is no way to tell with them because their thought processes and emotions are all over the place.
For now, listen carefully, observe. Stay neutral and calm. I know it's not easy, but you are doing a great job
Keep the focus on you and your family.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Remember the 10 bottles of wine H told me he bought when he was drunk and they never made it home? Yesterday he showed up with 6 bottles. Saw them on the counter and asked what they were. Told me the bottles he ordered just arrived so he went and got them today. So first, he told me there were 10. Okay. Second, why bring them home now and tell me how much I’m going to like them. And, the wine house he got them from doesn’t open until 3. He was picking D17 up from school and 3, then he dropped her and went to work out. So did he go pick this up in his work out clothes. Makes me question all that. I know I shouldn’t.
Then my lovely D19 who I think is catching on to something going on, not sure if she knows what, but something. This was our family chat last night when she got home from work. H and I were at D17’s soccer game.
D19: did you go to the game? Me: Yep D19: oh I was confused because your car is here Me: yes dad and I rode together D19: I just assumed dad was somewhere else like he always is
I did not respond. Family text. I know he and D17 both saw it. He did not respond that I know of, unless he texted her alone.
Roller coaster today. My BF think I should kick him out. She’s never been married and doesn’t have kids. She doesn’t get it but tells me she supports me. It’s hard hearing that. Fortunately I have my other friend who totally gets it.
It will be an interesting long weekend. Will he disappear or will he be around. I’ll be busy. Lots of work to do around the house. Some GAL’ing. Hopefully a hike with the D’s and the dog.
People don't get it...not until it happens to them. Yes, it is easy to say kick him out, but they are not walking in your shoes. Ignore her comments and continue as you have been. You will know when you have had enough....but it is up to you to decide that....not others.
Enjoy your hike.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Interesting weekend. I work up on Saturday and my wedding ring was broke. The wrap band had been cracked for awhile and it and the solder finally broke. I was a mess. Do I even bother to fix it. I was a real mess. H gasped when he saw it. That was it. Fortunately I had decided the night before I was biking in the morning. Forced myself to go. Cried through the first couple of miles. But I felt SO much better when I was done. Really cleared my head. I decided I was getting it fixed I didn’t care what h thought. Not sure that was the right thing, but h only kind of scoffed when I told him the cost. That was all he said. Don’t know what he expected me to do. D17 noticed right away and asked why I was wearing my plain band (h got it for me to wear for work).
Sunday was more of a mess. Said he was going to play golden tee. Stupid golf game he’s addicted to. Turns out he may have played but also went to a mutual friend’s bday party. Didn’t even tell me about it. I only found out because he was tagged on Facebook. That hurt a lot. A lot.
And today he headed out early to play golf and disappeared for the rest of the day. Makes me wonder how I can do this sometimes. Not sure what I expected. He’s never home. Then he gets home and pretends everything is fine. Sometimes I feel sad for him, like what’s going through his head. Maybe nothing. I know guys think differently and I’m probably always thinking the worst.
Just a tough weekend. Thank goodness for my bike and the D’s.
Feeling better today… for now. I think because our 25th wedding anniversary is Tuesday that I’m really up and down. Just another day right?
So, apparently the lease has been cancelled. I looked at the checking account this morning and there is a deposit from the property management group. Looks like it just cleared. H hasn’t said a word about it. I feel like I should give him the opportunity to tell me? Yes/no? And how long do I give him? He knows I can see it. I don’t get why he wouldn’t just tell me when he found out.
I wouldn't say a word about the lease being cancelled. He may tell you and then again, he may remain quiet to see if you are going to ask. Don't ask.
I am glad you are getting your ring repaired. He may have been waiting to see if you were going to continue on and not have it repaired. He's definitely not sure about his situation. Lots of stuff for him to think about.
He is like a teenager. Says he's going to do something and then later does something else, i.e., like attend a party and not tell "mom". Don't take it personally...this is just a part of him growing up. He craves independence and yet, there are times he wants you "mom" to know what he is doing.
Trust me, there is no way that you can absolutely figure his head out. Why? Because he doesn't know what he's going to do one minute to the next. This is a very emotional journey for him and he has to work through all of his issues before he becomes a mature man who is settled in his own skin.
Don't second guess yourself. I think you are doing great with him still living under the same roof with you. It takes a lot of patience to deal with a man/child.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
So I did ask..but it was more like hey it’s almost June are we going to have to pay rent? Of course I got the answer I should have expected. Oh I didn’t tell you I’m so sorry. I could have swore I told you. Blah blah blah. Part of me wants to believe him, part of my doesn’t believe him.
Went to D19’s boyfriend’s baseball game on Saturday. Beautiful day! Of course we get home and h is gone. Where’s dad? I said probably playing golden tee or something. That was a guess, I had no idea. He comes home in time to grill dinner. Then after the kids leave he announces that he is going back to play more tee. He didn’t. I can see the charges, that’s not where he went. I don’t comment. When he leaves he says he’s won’t be home late. That’s one of the things we used to fight about. I said you do you. No argument.
Sunday I go to church with D17 and get home and h says he’s going golfing and to watch a band. Have fun. I deep cleaned a ton of the house because all the furniture was moved since we had someone do some painting. He got home for dinner and was just crabby. I don’t remember the comment he said but I agreed with him. He started arguing with me like I didn’t. I’m like h stop I agree with you. He finally stopped. Seriously???
The teenager thing certainly rang true to me this weekend. I so wanted to tell him to grow the H$!! Up. I kind of had a thought a church too. Through all this no matter how hard it is I need to be the lighthouse. I was also in the middle of cleaning and all of a sudden I’m like why am I doing this? And I could truthfully say it was for me and the girls. I’ve always said those things to myself but I felt different this time. Is that weird?
I feel like he’s just trying to piss me off. Just trying to get in an argument. Is that what they do?
Oh yes, these lost folks will push your buttons and try to goad you into a fight/argument. Very much like a teenager, not wanting to take responsibility for their behaviours that lead to problems.
I loved how you preempted H’s rant by agreeing with him. Still, you had to stop him and point that out. They aren’t really listening, more assuming your response and looking for a fight.
H is being driven emotionally. He will act and argue based upon that. It is infuriating how immune they are to logic and reason. H will say the sky is red, and no amount of explaining, or arguing, or anything will make him see the truth.
Not taking his bait to these attempts at conflict is excellent, and difficult to do. H will likely ramp up his attempts. It’s part teenage rebellion, testing your changes, testing your boundaries, seeing if you’ll accept him, how far he can push, trying to make you the bad guy, and so on. Validate where you can, and let him be. Don’t get dragged into his world/fight.
Boundaries. Lots of times their need for conflict continues to increase and the LBS must implement boundaries. Premeditated action you will take if/when H is disrespectful, swearing, overly argumentative, and such. Like you did with him arguing, a direct statement, followed by immediate action. Example: “H, I’m willing to discuss with you. But when you swear and yell, I will leave the room.” And do it. A boundary must be rock solid. And yes, H will test it.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I was also in the middle of cleaning and all of a sudden I’m like why am I doing this? And I could truthfully say it was for me and the girls. I’ve always said those things to myself but I felt different this time. Is that weird?
Not at all. Sounds like a nice moment of clarity.
Have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Well I made it through our 25th wedding anniversary. I cried pretty much everywhere I could without being seen. Nothing was said. Just a day. I expected that. Kids either didn’t remember or didn’t say anything. I’m Shute there are cards in the mail. I’m not checking the mail. It’s hard knowing that was once such a big deal is now just another day.
Interesting insights since my last post an some questions…
1. I realized that the only time this weekend that h tried arguing with me he was drinking. Which he’s been doing a lot. I know shocker. Otherwise he is just his normal self, like nothings changed.
2. The wine is now home. Do I drink it? I really don’t want to but I kinda do. But I don’t want to make a big deal out of it.
3. I went to clean the drain (D’s hair, you know what I’m talking about) the other day. This is usually h’s job. Well I’m not waiting around for him to do things anymore. I’m just doing them. He’s says what are you doing I can take care of that. (In a nice voice) I said well you’re busy. He says that’s silly let me do this. What’s gotten into you lately? Hmm okay.
4. H says he’s staying the summer. That means that we go on family vacation together. It’s going to be so hard going there knowing I might never have that again. Anyway, it’s still over a month away, but some things like boarding the dog need to be done now. Do I bring it up? Do I just take care of it like I always would? The cabin we stay at doesn’t have everything we need so we have to take a lot with us. I usually do all that packing. Do I tell that h that it’s on him now?
The drinking a lot is not a shocker. He is self-medicating. Hoping that the alcohol will make him feel better. We all know that it won't. He will try many different things to try to feel better. Until he hits that brick wall and discovers that happiness comes from within, he will be experimenting with different things.
You are learning very quickly to not wait on him to do things. One thing, be sure to thank him when he does do something. They are starved for validation and attention, i.e., just like teenagers.
I would go ahead and do whatever you need to do to get ready for vacation. When he sees you doing these things, he may very well volunteer to do them. If he does, thank him. Try to remember that teenagers are more willing to do things if they volunteer versus being asked or told.
Hang in there.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
That self medicating - looking for external happiness - takes many forms. Drinking, drugs, spending money, thrill seeking, fast cars, illegal and illicit behaviours, affairs, etc. The rush they get from their current running behaviour usually gets old fast and they spin off to a new one.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
2. The wine is now home. Do I drink it? I really don’t want to but I kinda do. But I don’t want to make a big deal out of it.
Don’t make a big deal out of it, or read to much meaning in to things. It’s just wine, treat it as such. Try it. If you like it, enjoy it. (Moderately. Alcohol can mess up our path, view, of things pretty quick when we are so hurt and confused. H is living proof, right?)
Originally Posted by bkerchik
4. H says he’s staying the summer. That means that we go on family vacation together. It’s going to be so hard going there knowing I might never have that again. Anyway, it’s still over a month away, but some things like boarding the dog need to be done now. Do I bring it up? Do I just take care of it like I always would? The cabin we stay at doesn’t have everything we need so we have to take a lot with us. I usually do all that packing. Do I tell that h that it’s on him now?
I’d arrange boarding the dog, like you always did. I’d keep H in the loop. Kind and cordial.
The vacation is a month away. Plenty “could” happen between now and then. What actually will happen, time will tell. Point is, expectations. Dial your expectations to zero. Unmet expectations lead to resentments.
H could go along with everything. The planning and packing and such all being smooth. H could also flip direction and do a last minute “I’m not going”. Either way, whatever happens, you and the daughters are going on vacation! (Hopefully, Dad’s coming along.) That’s your mindset. So, do things, make plans, that way. Without relying on H’s involvement, attendance, or actually doing a certain part of the plan (like arranging boarding of dog).
Folks in emotional turmoil have the attention span of a gnat. They will promise all manner of stuff and “blink” forget about it the next moment. Ensure you do what you need to get done. And that’s not just for going on vacation. Bills, picking someone up, shopping, etc: H is presently flaky, it’s best to ensure needed things happen regardless of his actions or inactions.
As for packing: Keep H in the know and let him do his own packing. “Hey H, I got the dog boarding looked after and working on getting the dishes and bedding (or whatever joint/family items it is) gathered up. I’ll leave your packing to you.”
Have a great day bk.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Well I made it through our 25th wedding anniversary. I cried pretty much everywhere I could without being seen. Nothing was said. Just a day.
Hey bk,
Some days those feels are a gut punch. over and over. you let it all out. for it IS an enormous loss. then get back to finding / figuring out what is YOUR paradise.
A little Regge this time for your feels and contemplation.
Paradise - Stick Figure
I wonder where the wind it blows The reason why it blows so cold ... When all the rain keep falling down The world don't stop from spinning round What's in your heart, it's hard to find But getting lost is being found I hope I can find my paradise
And I hope I find my paradise (echo)And I hope I find my paradise(echo)
g
H:55 XW:50 D19, D18, S13 ILYBINILWY 3/23 DB1 4/23, rescinded 5/23, DB2 6/23 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-5 & W leaves 8/23 – 3/24 Settlement 5/24, Court 9/11/24 <-, D 9/16/24
Another interesting thing happened last week. H got home Thursday night about 10:30…drunk. D19 and her boyfriend were in the kitchen when he came home. He said hi, looked at his phone, chuckled, answered it, and walked outside to take the call. When he came in d19 asked who it was. He said my brother called me. D19 told me about it. Mom I know he was lying about someone calling him because I saw him answer the phone. She also said that she didn’t think it was his brother. She didn’t know who it was. Well I can guess. She’s really starting to call him out on stuff.
Then D17 went to the library sat to get some homework done. I asked h if he could pick her up when she was done so I could go to D19’s bf’s baseball game. Sure h said no problem. He gets home with her (I assumed she was working the whole time) and she’s pissed. He made her sit there for an hour so he could finish playing golden tee. And he acts like she’s over reacting. I was pissed but vented to a friend.
It’s like he’s just begging for a fight over stupid things. I don’t get it. And I still don’t get why he wouldn’t tell me about the lease. So frustrating.
But I did get me ring back and it looks brand new!
A few weeks ago I did a thing. The details don’t matter, but let’s just say I did something stupid, was completely my fault, but really was an accident. I won’t be using much of one of my fingers all summer. When it happened I told D19 that she needed to take me to the ER. H doesn’t do well with anything hospital related. I didn’t want him passing out and wasn’t sure I wanted him there. H insisted on taking me. I said no D19 will take me and again he insisted. So I let him. He kept me from going into shock on the way there. Lying there all I could think about was why the h was he even there or cared. I even told him he could leave. He told me I was being silly he wasn’t leaving.
He asked the next week what he could do to help. I told him. He’s helped a few times but mostly I get tired of waiting for him to do it and take care of it myself. Maybe that’s on me. Not sure. I have a hard time asking for help. D’s have been amazing and help whenever I ask.
Father’s Day was good. D’s were surprised I didn’t get H a card or something. I told them well I made our big breakfast. I thought H would disappear again like he usually does on Sundays but he actually wanted to hang out with D’s and I. Just like old times. D19 has really been calling him out about never being home…at least once a week it comes up.
This injury has really set me back. Two steps forward, three back. I know I can get back there I just feel like I’m starting over.
I had dinner with my good friend that completely gets what I’m doing. One of the few that know anything is going on. She’s amazing. She asked some good questions that I’ve actually been pondering. How long can I go on like this. I said at least until the end of summer and then we’ll see. Honestly I don’t know. She also asked what I would do if he truly is having an affair. Again, I don’t know. Depends on the circumstances and his reaction? I don’t know. She was happy to hear that if he does change his mind things won’t just go back to status quo. Work needs to be done and things need to be figured out.
I sprung that dinner on him. Texted him on my way that I was going. Wasn’t going to tell him but wanted to be the better person. The next day I did a lot of cleaning so I showered late in the day. He asked if I was going out. I said I had no plans right then. He said oh I thought you would since you just showered. What? I swear some of him questions are getting weirder.
I still don’t know what we are doing for the 4th. Vacation or not. I’m not bringing this one up, it’s on him. I did find a place for the dog just in case. I mentioned that we were invited to a friends house if we didn’t go. That was a few weeks ago and he just said he didn’t know yet. This has also been dependent on his dad’s health which we just found out is fine now.
He keeps asking if I’ll be able to swim when we go on out big vacation. I told him I’d figure something out. His parents will be around for that one too. I don’t even know how I would act around them. Normal. Try not to cry.
Anyway. I’m trying to get back to that better place I was. Calm confident kind. But short on details and things he doesn’t need to know about.
Sorry to hear about your hand. Hopefully your injured finger heals quickly.
It is interesting how H took you to the hospital and remained there with you. Another insight into the duality (or more) and confusion he is living.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
I had dinner with my good friend that completely gets what I’m doing. One of the few that know anything is going on. She’s amazing. She asked some good questions that I’ve actually been pondering. How long can I go on like this. I said at least until the end of summer and then we’ll see. Honestly I don’t know. She also asked what I would do if he truly is having an affair. Again, I don’t know. Depends on the circumstances and his reaction? I don’t know. She was happy to hear that if he does change his mind things won’t just go back to status quo. Work needs to be done and things need to be figured out.
Good questions, and good answers. “I don’t know” is a good honest answer. Until you really face something like betrayal due to an affair, you don’t know what you’d do. And even then, it takes lots of time to find your path.
Be gentle on yourself. Give yourself grace. It’s perfectly ok to be uncertain to such, especially while they are still rather theoretical and/or unconfirmed.
Yes, the old status quo will not be resumed. You know, and see this.
I hope your week goes well.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Well I’m doing kind of better. Between my finger and everything else I still kind of lose it sometimes. My finger is healing well and it’s not quite as bad as I thought it was. I keep telling myself it could have been worse. It’s crazy how this has set my confidence back.
Not going anywhere for the 4th which is fine. I feel like we would kind of be imposing on my in laws because of FILs health. Still planning the trip at the end of the month. H will be going with the girls, the plan is for me to go but who knows if that will change. H’s whole family will be there. I’m think he likes that since he can get away from me. But who knows. My MIL and I very close. We usually end up taking walks a lot in the morning. Spend a lot of time talking. I keep thinking, how in the he$$ I’m going to do this without losing it. This could be my last trip to my happy place. The place that h and have gone to even before we were married. In-laws have a condo there and we rent a cabin on the lake. The place that my kids turn down other vacations for. So many memories there. And what do I do if a question about our anniversary comes up. Tell them nope didn’t do a damn thing, while my BIL is probably planning something for their 25th in Sept. Do I cry in the bathroom and act as if? Very lost on this one.
Otherwise status quo. Had a lot of fun with d17 and h Saturday night. H decided to play songs from our college days and we all hung out and sang and laughed. Even d17 said she has a really good time. He said bye babe as he left the other day which I’m trying to not read too much into. I slip like that every once in awhile. But he has been very careful not to so I was shocked. But again trying not to read into it.
You are correct, it’s wild what will affect one’s confidence during these situations. Believe me, the shifting between confident and questioning is perfectly normal, and temporary. Such shifting, and the emotional being dragged around, fades and confident normality does return.
Originally Posted by bkerchik
And what do I do if a question about our anniversary comes up. Tell them nope didn’t do a damn thing, while my BIL is probably planning something for their 25th in Sept. Do I cry in the bathroom and act as if? Very lost on this one.
Tell them, “I remained home this year” or “H and I remained home this year”. No need to go into further details. Just a simple factual answer.
It’s ok to cry. Some advice. Schedule it. You scheduling a time, and place, a when and where to allow yourself to feel and explore helps with your emotions not building to the point of bubbling out during inopportune times. A scheduled periodic “forced” reflection also fosters uncoupling and detaching from triggering stimuli; as well as fosters healing, after all you have to work through your emotions, nice to do so on your choosing.
Scheduling has a start time and an end time. Perhaps getting up ten minutes earlier. There is that fleeting moment when you awake, while you still do not realize, are not aware, of the situation. Then it all comes back.
So, after that reality return, set a timer for five minutes, and sit on the side of the bed. Cry, think, whatever. Just let your thoughts and feelings kind of go. Once the timer goes off, the five minutes are up, wipe your eyes and go about your day.
At the beginning, several scheduled times are likely required. Morning, coffee break(s), and an evening one. Slowly you’ll “need” less, and you’ll remove a scheduled time, and/or shorten the time. Eventually getting to just one five minutes a day, to three minutes a day, to one minute, to none.
That’s scheduled times. You will get to when you can go about your day without any scheduled times. Sure, there will still be the odd moment or event that brings up something, yet it will be far less debilitating. A lot less having to finding a place to cry and let it out.
In the interim, schedule a safe convenient time and place to feel what you have to feel. It’s emptying your emotional bucket before it overfills. Eventually that stream will become but a trickle or drip, and filling takes a lot longer.
Get a nice card for BIL’s 25th. I suspect you’ll likely be involved or present in their celebrating. A hug and congratulations.
Hang in there bk.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Just got home from dinner with D19. So awesome! And she even asked me to go! I love that girl so much!
The 4th was fun. Hung out with the gang and watched fireworks from one of their backyards. Caught H staring at me again. It was just like old times. Then he goes to a concert with the possible OT the next night. They were given tixs, or were they. Made me sad.
But that same day we were having morning coffee and he asked me if there were anything things that needed to be done around the house that he could help with. I almost fell over, I didn’t even know what to say. Just dumbfounded. I couldn’t think of anything to tell him although there are SO many things! So today I asked him if he could take on getting rid of some of the old furniture in the house we need to get rid of and he said okay! We’ll see what happens typically he won’t follow through on stuff like that. Trust that he will and don’t bring it up again?
One week until we leave for vacation. I’m starting to stress because usually I’ve got a lot more put together than I do right now. I’ve decided I’m going to just go and suck up as much fun and awesomeness as I can. If H’s B and SIL are a pain I’m just going to let it slide. Although I know H will complain to me about it. I just need to keep telling myself this and make it happen.
I had an interesting chat with the nurse practitioner that I have been seeing and she’s prescribed me meds to help me sleep. Had a follow up and she asked me how things were going, as she’s knows what’s going on. She asked how IT was going and I said well she listens. She’s like well I don’t know much about this stuff but it sounds like you need more of a coach to help you navigate this. So I’m going to look into that. Does this group still do that or any recommendations? She also told me to message her anytime I needed to, even to vent. So sweet.
I’m also reading the Empowered Wife. Anyone have a take on that book and its ideas?
Thursday of vacation and it’s been awesome. Been trying to give myself the appropriate places to cry but now that we are starting to do some lasts for me it’s getting harder and harder. Kids have been talking about all the generations that will come here and I’m so glad they will still have that but it makes me so sad as well. Going to try to stay positive and make the most of every moment. When we leave I’ll have all three kids in the car with me ( d19’s boyfriend is with us) I just pray I don’t lose it.
Treasure those memories for they will help you along the way. Your vacation sounds like it went well and everyone had a good time. I know that it has been difficult for you and crying is a way to heal and also you are crying for things that have been lost along the way. There is no way to know what the future may hold for you and your family...but I do know this...you are a very strong person to have gone on this trip and put on a good game face the entire time. That strength will see you through this ordeal.
Stay positive and enjoy each and every moment. Try to remember this, the past is gone, the future is not ours to predict, but the present is a gift, a gift of time and a gift to help us dig deeper within ourselves to do the things that we must do in order to live each and every day.
Stay strong, cry when you need to cry and then pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue moving forward. You are right where you need to be at this time. Travel safely back home.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you! I feel like God is as blessing me today. I always go out paddle boarding first thing in the morning and I saw a family of four deer and so many other animals. Then later we saw an eagle swoop down and catch a fish. God is good. I hope tomorrow ends okay. Lots of hidden tears today.
Back from vacation, which was great, and reality has hit me like a ton of bricks. I find myself wanting to apologize but I know that’s not right. I want to scream, why won’t you talk to me about this. No R talk since May. He doesn’t bring it up and just pretends nothing is wrong. Summer is almost over and I feel like I’m on the clock again. Is he looking at apartments again? When does he plan on telling the kids? Right before d(19) leaves for school and d(17) starts her Senior year? What if summer goes by and he doesn’t say anything. He’s talking about things going on in September like it’ll be the same! It’s driving me crazy. Sorry i know I can’t control what he does and I need to stay in my lane. Just need to vent.
If you think all of this is driving you crazy, just think what is going on in his brain. You are the sane one at the moment and his emotions and the wiring in his brain is misfiring all over the place. He's not going to talk to you about the situation unless you push him and then he'll start up that nonsense of leaving home and finding an apartment. As long as he feels comfortable at home and is not pressured to shape up and get it together, he will stay. I've seen a lot of them like this and it about drives the spouse/partner absolutely nuts. The only thing you can do is go somewhere and scream as loud as you can. Take a walk, do something that is really physical that requires your strength and full attention, find a pillow and beat the living daylights out of it.
I honestly don't think he even knows what he wants to do at this point, but I can assure you, if you push for answers, he will threaten to leave again.
I know this is driving you nuts. I went through this for about 18 months and when I finally opened the door and told him that he could leave, he sat on the couch and cried and admitted he didn't know what he wanted to do...but three weeks later he left and never returned.
If you really and truly want him to leave, start pushing. If you don't want him to leave, you will need to find a way to channel your frustration into something else.
Breathe!!!!!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you Job. You always have a way of putting things in perspective for me. Thank you for talking me down off my ledge. I WILL carry on. I CAN do this.
reality has hit me like a ton of bricks. I find myself wanting to apologize but I know that’s not right. I want to scream, ... I’m on the clock again. Is he looking at apartments again? When does he plan on telling the kids? Right before d(19) leaves for school and d(17) starts her Senior year? ... Just need to vent.
As much as you need. Whenever you want to. Here.
I've felt every one of those things. I get it.
And you know what? Sometimes I still have reality hit me like a ton of bricks sometimes. Almost a year since XW finalized the D. Why? Well, been thinking of that for a post in my thread - the impact of going from trust -> receiving dishonesty, disrespect, disloyalty...
and the world keeps turning ... paying me and my occasional desolation no mind.
So I tell my story here to vent. To let it out. And to tell my joys in order to reinforce them Where others get it. And to get advice and perspective from those like job who have gone through the fire before -
Originally Posted by job
The only thing you can do is go somewhere and scream as loud as you can. Take a walk, do something that is really physical that requires your strength and full attention, find a pillow and beat the living daylights out of it.
G's sister - brother, I used to go for walks in the forest and whack trees with a big stick. As hard as I could. and then my hands hurt.
So, on those good things that YOU control ... any biking lately? tell us a good biking story! It's part of your GAL right?
g
Related music feels... hmmmm... something that goes harder for those rage/scream/desolation feelings... I can't decide between:
All the Good - Filter
Rise and shine IMO take back what’s mine from you cuz
All the good in us gets assassinated All the good in us gets killed no hesitation
Or "mellower"
A Little Bit Off - Five Finger Death Punch
I'm a little bit off today, somethin' down inside me's different Woke up a little off today, I can tell that somethin's wrong I'm a little thrown off today, there's something going on inside me I'm a little bit off today, a little bit off today [Outro] I'm a little bit off today Somethin' down inside me feels so different Just a little bit off today You can all f*** off today
H:55 XW:50 D19, D18, S13 ILYBINILWY 3/23 DB1 4/23, rescinded 5/23, DB2 6/23 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-5 & W leaves 8/23 – 3/24 Settlement 5/24, Court 9/11/24 <-, D 9/16/24
No biking lately. Not since I hurt my finger. I know my finger doesn’t really have anything to do with Biking but I so worried that if I would fall I would mess it up. So still lifting, and my lifting buddy is 100% behind me so that helps. Walking the dog when it’s not too hot. Halfway done with my online history class and going to start taking piano again when my finger is ready. Lots of GALing this weekend. Grad party that H will probably go with me too and a fundraiser that I will to by myself if I have to..lots of friends there. Reading a book about self care. Doing at least three things that bring me joy everyday. And knowing they bring me joy brings me even more. Funny how that works. Thanks for reminding of the good things!
My WAW been back for a year, now. Our older daughters and my youngest at 15 have benefitted but they hate if we argue. Our sex life has not been so great. Personally, that hits me emotionally very hard. She gives me sex just as a 'duty' or to do something nice for me. She had screwed up and told me she gave the OP lots of sex because she was worried about him going out and fng someone else. I also had pestered her for the truth and she said "yes, it was exciting. And enjoyable but then felt really bad and realized it was such a horrific damage to myself and my family." So, it's now hurting ME extra deeply all over again. She doesn't even TRY to enjoy our sex or get an orgasm. Makes me feel like sht. She promised to work so much harder on that and put more honest effort into it. She had said that a year ago also and I pointed out and she admits she didn't follow through. Oh, also while we were separated, she got pregnant by the mf OP she was with. She had miscarriage fairly early and back then I had been very crying and sympathetic with her (still apart then) Now, I just have this agonizing pain over and over and almost constantly about her having sex w someone else. AND GETTING IMPREGNATED BY HIS SORRY A$$. He was married as well. It just hurts so much and I've been praying and praying but I don't feel relief and I feel like I can't stand the pain period and don't know if ever can get past it. We've been married 15 years. Back together now but shoot, 2 other times in the past she ran off too. I could really use some advice and ideas about the getting through this constant agony.
M:48 W:35 S:16 D:15 D:10 Md: 12 & 1/2 years bomb: Jan 8 ? she moved out about then also Moved in w/OM soon after
My WAW been back for a year, now. Our older daughters and my youngest at 15 have benefitted but they hate if we argue. Our sex life has not been so great. Personally, that hits me emotionally very hard. She gives me sex just as a 'duty' or to do something nice for me. She had screwed up and told me she gave the OP lots of sex because she was worried about him going out and fng someone else. I also had pestered her for the truth and she said "yes, it was exciting. And enjoyable but then felt really bad and realized it was such a horrific damage to myself and my family." So, it's now hurting ME extra deeply all over again. She doesn't even TRY to enjoy our sex or get an orgasm. Makes me feel like sht. She promised to work so much harder on that and put more honest effort into it. She had said that a year ago also and I pointed out and she admits she didn't follow through. Oh, also while we were separated, she got pregnant by the mf OP she was with. She had miscarriage fairly early and back then I had been very crying and sympathetic with her (still apart then) Now, I just have this agonizing pain over and over and almost constantly about her having sex w someone else. AND GETTING IMPREGNATED BY HIS SORRY A$$. He was married as well. It just hurts so much and I've been praying and praying but I don't feel relief and I feel like I can't stand the pain period and don't know if ever can get past it. We've been married 15 years. Back together now but shoot, 2 other times in the past she ran off too. I could really use some advice and ideas about the getting through this constant agony.
M:48 W:35 S:16 D:15 D:10 Md: 12 & 1/2 years bomb: Jan 8 ? she moved out about then also Moved in w/OM soon after
I found your old thread which is at the 100 post limit. Please make a new thread and I’ll link them together (if you want). Also a new thread will give folks a place to read and respond directly to you.
Thanks
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
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