Detaching & setting boundaries w/ clingy boomerang

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

Wow, that got a lot of stuff out in the open.

M: So you’ve been wanting to talk. I’m not pressuring you but would you like to today? (He was visibly unsure of what to say and how to say it. I drank the STFU smoothie until his words came through.)
H: I still struggle with it but it’s fewer times now.
M: What is “it”?
H: Killing myself
M: Oh, ok. (insert pause. I’m inclined to believe he’s using this comment as bait, again. What do you think?)

Nicely done letting H find his words. Pausing, letting H fill in the silence is excellent.

It’s pretty common for depression to bring about feelings of ending things. How it would be like. In my readings and experience (my cousin committed suicide) folks who are talking about it, are much less likely to do it.

Antidepressants also help. And H is on A/D. Which means he is seeing a doctor for prescriptions, follow ups, and reassignments. H will be exposed to, and prompted to, many avenues of reaching out. Speaking with the doctor sitting front of him; calling the office; the suicide help line; to name a few. H can reach out if he needs to.

So yes, I do think it’s mostly bait, with some truthful associated feelings. (H also does not bring this subject up again. Which to me illustrates the fleeting-ness of it.)

H: The A/Ds are helping.
M: Are you ok right now. Or, do I still give you anxiety?
H: No, I’m ok right now. I just need to find myself. I mean not find myself. I just need to figure things out. (He retracts the ‘find myself’ comment as if he is aware of MLC and doesn’t believe it’s what he’s going through. It was a strange feeling that made me wonder why he felt like he couldn’t admit that out loud. Any insight? Could someone have joked that he’s having one and he is inclined to correct the perception?)
M: Happy to hear that anxiety is more under control.

Mental health, emotional health, there is quite a stigma attached to that. Folks also deny health problems. Especially men.

By the sounds of it, H knows/realizes. Perhaps only in moments here and there. Yet he realizes. So, good for him.

H: I’d still like a divorce.
M: Ok. Let’s get the process moving tomorrow? I can call an atty. (My response was from a detached and passive standpoint. I embraced the situation without hesitation – something came over me. I know the DB response is to say that it’s his D. Thoughts on my response?)

Love it.

Your situation is far enough along, you are far enough along, and you are healed enough that the best/correct response is to toss the ball right back in his court.

This is/was no idle threat. You meant it.

H: Well, let’s wait a bit> I need you to have medical insurance coverage. (This is a repeat convo we had the last time we talked 7 months ago and almost convenient as I raised the follow up appt for tomorrow. Would you agree? Keeping me on a string without saying so?)
M: We’re not staying married for money.
H: It’s not for money. It’s for coverage.
M: I can pay for coverage. I have a job.
H: I just can’t take the chance of going back and things are the same again.
M: I’m not fighting you. You’ve decided and as I’ve said before, I’ll give you your divorce if that’s what you want. As for me, I haven’t had a change of heart. I still remember and believe in our vows, a covenant I honor.
H: Well, I just don’t see it any other way.

H is backpedaling. Methinks he is quite surprised by MamaG2.0.

M: Well, there are many ways. I’m not sure that anyone should write off a 32-year relationship without making an effort. But, I’m not here to change your mind.
H: And, how would we do that?
M: I don’t know. I’m not a therapist. This is where we were 20 months ago. (We just stared at each other. My wheels are spinning.)
M: What? You’re acting like you expected me to fight for you. (Blank stare again.)
M: I’m going to get ready to sell house. That’s the first thing in order. (Somebody get me a refill!)
H: You know that’s not what I’ve wanted. (He starts getting visibly agitated.)
M: I don’t need that much house and would like to sell it. (H shook his head and more silence.)
M: It doesn’t help that you’re talking with EA all day every day. The grass grows greener where you water it and our grass isn’t looking good. (He was confused by this comment. Not sure if he’s surprised I ‘know’ about EA or if he believes it’s innocent and they’re just friends. Thoughts?)
H: We do talk all the time. I guess you and I don’t really spend much time together, do we?
M: You spend holidays and go on vacations like the one in July to SC together. That’s called an EA. As long as you cheat on me that way, we can’t bond and be better.
H: I do talk with her a lot but that’s it. There’s nothing else. (Bam – confirmed! Somehow, I kept my cool for the rest of our interaction that night. Not so much once I got home.)
M: Then why did the two of you go?
H: She had concert tickets. HS friend and I planned to go with her and her sister. HS friend backed out so it was the 3 of us.
M: I understood the two of you went alone and that’s definitely at least an EA. I have no proof of it turning PA but we’ll see. (Ran out of the smoothie again! Wish I hadn’t admitted the ‘no proof’ part.)
H: We just talk.
M: I’ve known and have waited for you to come clean with me. I even gave you the oppty yesterday, but you didn’t divulge. (H was not sure how I knew but didn’t question me either. Good thing as Godly intuition is hard to explain. I’ve still not snooped.)
H: I have no interest in her nor anyone else. We only talk. You know, she even suggested that I join dating sites. (OK, so why did he throw this in there? Dating sites were suggested?)
M: (No response. Refilled STFU smoothie as I collect myself from his admission. I purely watched him to see his body response. He wasn’t angry which is his typical response to pressure. He was saying this very matter-of-factly. I was so confused and unsure of what to believe.)
H: Maybe we can start talking more. I know I’ve suggested that before but I’m serious. We can reconnect. (Neither of us mentioned stopping with EA.)

So, lots out in the open. And ball pretty well in H’s court. Let’s see if he follows up with talking more.

As for EA, yes he likely sees it quite differently. Even justifying it as an innocent friendship. Masters of manipulation they are. Even to themselves. Twisting reality to their narrative.

You did well with the EA topic. You did tossed a barrage of truth darts, and you got him to admit the EA. You even put a boundary out there, and defined the EA as cheating - “As long as you cheat on me that way, we can’t bond and be better.”

Stick to your boundary. You told H pretty clearly. It’s now up to him.

H is now opening up to me and begins to share his thoughts for the first time in over a year. Is this monstering to justify his behavior that was just aired about EA? I imagine there is truth to some/all of it too and these topics explain how he may have been seeing me as a villain in Feb 2023 and onward. Thoughts?

I’m sure H’s sharing of his thoughts about you are in a good portion a response of what had just transpired. It’s ok. MLCers have lots to burn through, and lashing out and venting can promote forward movement.

For someone who has aired very little over the last 12 months & for someone who has cried on a dime, this is a welcomed change. (Neither of us shed a tear.) Despite the many appts and hours we’ve spent together over the last year, he hasn’t shared any of this. Why now? What’s changed? Did EA help him see what he’s doing or even put to words what his feelings have been but he didn’t know how to express? Why is he finally voicing things? Has he reflected? How did he get here? I have so many questions.

Why now? Growth.

As odd as it is, and horrible as it is, affairs are a band-aid. Remember, these hurt folks are using the AP to grow up from. Like a surrogate parent for the teenager self. They use them. And the AP uses the MLCer.

It is kind of help. Not directly, nor particularly healthy or well intentioned even. And there are many other ways and methods of guidance and help. However, that’s not what was chosen. Of course, if they could/would choose better they’d not be in crisis.

That’s the silver lining side. There is an entire ugly side of affairs which folks embroiled in these illicit relationships have to journey their way through.

H’s list and feedback. There are some nuggets of truth in there, as you pointed out. And you have made changes, and H has noticed. Keep doing for you.

His take on things is the standard script/fare. Interestingly, he shared quite a bit. Even acknowledging some of his own shortcomings.

Will he remember the details of this convo? What he shared and/or what I said in response? In the moment, he seemed to be very engaged and coherent. Nothing he said was outlandish. If I didn’t know about MLC behaviors, I’d tell you that was my H.

Time will tell. MLCers wear a mask and hide their deep self. Part of the running; running from themselves.

However, I do think H will be mulling this over for quite a while.

Is he still in replay? Breaking stage of withdrawal; first awakening? Second awakening?

Replay. Tending towards depression.

If there is an affair partner, they are running. Sounds like the EA might be ending, or H is lying.

Boomerangs do circle back and then fly off again. It’s ok to hope. Keep expectations to zero.

The ball is in his court. Stick to your boundaries. Do not sell yourself short. Do not falter. Live your life. Love your life.

H has the opportunity to run and catch up. If he decides to, don’t hold his hand. He has to earn it. Demonstrate it. Consistently.

D