Detaching & setting boundaries w/ clingy boomerang

[MamaG]

I'm not sure how the hike and talk went - mixed reviews (reviews of my own as I replay the whole thing in my head). I have given it all so much thought. To what degree was my real H present in the 2 hours? It felt like it was him that I was engaging with. H seemed serious and sincere. Not angry but question if his monster has softened....

And for as a result of replaying Sun over and over, I clearly have a lot to write. Long one ahead....

Time & location were not set for our hike. So, I reached out to H to ensure I heard from his mind. H’s response immediately introduced running behaviors: “not been feeling well since yesterday’s breakfast”. I’m feeling triggered – yes, I’m working on this.

M: Stopping at bakery. Want anything for our hike? (no response for an hour)
H: You’ve probably already left but I’m all set. I have not been feeling well since breakfast. There must have been something in it.
Hmmm…another nauseous day and I happen to be around him….STFU smoothy was delicious.
M: do you have the battery charger? I can’t seem to find it. (I made no reference to his ailments.)
H: What do you need it for?
M: I want to pick up some of these leaves with the mower but it won’t start.
H: Not sure you should mow them bc….blah blah blah…I’ll bring it if I’m feeling better
M: What time do you think you’ll be coming? (3 hours go by…)
H: I’m jumping in the shower and will be right over.
H: On my way

As H pulls in, dogs run over, and he happily greets them. He sets up the charger and we’re ready to go. I intentionally met him outside so this conversation happens, and we don’t get derailed by his belongings being packed up bc they’re right there at garage entrance. I walk towards my car in the garage as he walks towards his.

H: You’re driving?
M: I figured we’d take our own vehicles. I didn’t know if you’d want me in your truck.
H: Up to you but you can come with me. (I jump into his truck and we’re off.)
H: I’ll stop over tomorrow morning to see if it charged. (Interestingly didn’t offer to take care of the leaves.)

We enjoyed some small talk and then I asked what H has been trying to talk about. We talked about dogs (yes, again) and why they shouldn’t be pulled from mom too early, setting the stage for adults being impacted by long ago traumas.

M: You know that when dogs experience an early separation from mom, it leads to anxiety and other socialization problems. Plenty of long-term challenges.
H: Ya. But niece got her dog at 7 weeks, and she seems fine.
M: Humans are like that too, but it’s not measured in weeks. I said, the first 7 to 10 years of life really form who we are and our beliefs. (Let’s hope this connects some dots. Do you think in his emotional turmoil that this comment could’ve opened his mind to potential long ago issues?)
H: Ya. I guess.
M: I have a follow up appt tomorrow to confirm I’m in the clear from May surgery.
H: Where? (There was immediate concern in his voice. His ‘where’ question is likely due to him expecting to take me to the far away appts but I didn’t tell him.)
M: It’s local.
H: Let me know how it goes.

Ok, let’s cut to the chase...

M: So you’ve been wanting to talk. I’m not pressuring you but would you like to today? (He was visibly unsure of what to say and how to say it. I drank the STFU smoothie until his words came through.)
H: I still struggle with it but it’s fewer times now.
M: What is “it”?
H: Killing myself
M: Oh, ok. (insert pause. I’m inclined to believe he’s using this comment as bait, again. What do you think?)
H: The A/Ds are helping.
M: Are you ok right now. Or, do I still give you anxiety?
H: No, I’m ok right now. I just need to find myself. I mean not find myself. I just need to figure things out. (He retracts the ‘find myself’ comment as if he is aware of MLC and doesn’t believe it’s what he’s going through. It was a strange feeling that made me wonder why he felt like he couldn’t admit that out loud. Any insight? Could someone have joked that he’s having one and he is inclined to correct the perception?)
M: Happy to hear that anxiety is more under control.
H: I’d still like a divorce.
M: Ok. Let’s get the process moving tomorrow? I can call an atty. (My response was from a detached and passive standpoint. I embraced the situation without hesitation – something came over me. I know the DB response is to say that it’s his D. Thoughts on my response?)
H: Well, let’s wait a bit> I need you to have medical insurance coverage. (This is a repeat convo we had the last time we talked 7 months ago and almost convenient as I raised the follow up appt for tomorrow. Would you agree? Keeping me on a string without saying so?)
M: We’re not staying married for money.
H: It’s not for money. It’s for coverage.
M: I can pay for coverage. I have a job.
H: I just can’t take the chance of going back and things are the same again.
M: I’m not fighting you. You’ve decided and as I’ve said before, I’ll give you your divorce if that’s what you want. As for me, I haven’t had a change of heart. I still remember and believe in our vows, a covenant I honor.
H: Well, I just don’t see it any other way.

Now we’re moving into the thick of it…I couldn’t refill my smoothies as fast as I was drinking them.

M: Well, there are many ways. I’m not sure that anyone should write off a 32-year relationship without making an effort. But, I’m not here to change your mind.
H: And, how would we do that?
M: I don’t know. I’m not a therapist. This is where we were 20 months ago. (We just stared at each other. My wheels are spinning.)
M: What? You’re acting like you expected me to fight for you. (Blank stare again.)
M: I’m going to get ready to sell house. That’s the first thing in order. (Somebody get me a refill!)
H: You know that’s not what I’ve wanted. (He starts getting visibly agitated.)
M: I don’t need that much house and would like to sell it. (H shook his head and more silence.)
M: It doesn’t help that you’re talking with EA all day every day. The grass grows greener where you water it and our grass isn’t looking good. (He was confused by this comment. Not sure if he’s surprised I ‘know’ about EA or if he believes it’s innocent and they’re just friends. Thoughts?)
H: We do talk all the time. I guess you and I don’t really spend much time together, do we?
M: You spend holidays and go on vacations like the one in July to SC together. That’s called an EA. As long as you cheat on me that way, we can’t bond and be better.
H: I do talk with her a lot but that’s it. There’s nothing else. (Bam – confirmed! Somehow, I kept my cool for the rest of our interaction that night. Not so much once I got home.)
M: Then why did the two of you go?
H: She had concert tickets. HS friend and I planned to go with her and her sister. HS friend backed out so it was the 3 of us.
M: I understood the two of you went alone and that’s definitely at least an EA. I have no proof of it turning PA but we’ll see. (Ran out of the smoothie again! Wish I hadn’t admitted the ‘no proof’ part.)
H: We just talk.
M: I’ve known and have waited for you to come clean with me. I even gave you the oppty yesterday, but you didn’t divulge. (H was not sure how I knew but didn’t question me either. Good thing as Godly intuition is hard to explain. I’ve still not snooped.)
H: I have no interest in her nor anyone else. We only talk. You know, she even suggested that I join dating sites. (OK, so why did he throw this in there? Dating sites were suggested?)
M: (No response. Refilled STFU smoothie as I collect myself from his admission. I purely watched him to see his body response. He wasn’t angry which is his typical response to pressure. He was saying this very matter-of-factly. I was so confused and unsure of what to believe.)
H: Maybe we can start talking more. I know I’ve suggested that before but I’m serious. We can reconnect. (Neither of us mentioned stopping with EA.)

We got back to the truck and I asked if I could kiss him. He said yes and I leaned in. Yes, I leaned in...other than look my way, I don't remember much leaning on his part.) And, I'm not sure what it meant or said to him. (Where was that smoothie maker?)

H is now opening up to me and begins to share his thoughts for the first time in over a year. Is this monstering to justify his behavior that was just aired about EA? I imagine there is truth to some/all of it too and these topics explain how he may have been seeing me as a villain in Feb 2023 and onward. Thoughts?

For someone who has aired very little over the last 12 months & for someone who has cried on a dime, this is a welcomed change. (Neither of us shed a tear.) Despite the many appts and hours we’ve spent together over the last year, he hasn’t shared any of this. Why now? What’s changed? Did EA help him see what he’s doing or even put to words what his feelings have been but he didn’t know how to express? Why is he finally voicing things? Has he reflected? How did he get here? I have so many questions.

1. Control – back to control. Yesterday he felt ‘judged’, but didn’t use ‘judged’ in today’s conversation. I told him that I’m not the same person and he said that he can see that.

2. Misses: (listed in this order)
My food
Playing games at table with me
Watching tv at night with me
Coming home to me
And of course….s3x

3. Grateful for a couple mentions:
-He thanked me for helping him through a 6-month recovery of an injury in 2021 (a contributor to MLC launch)
-He thanked me for managing the house and told me I did a great job keep us organized through the years. But (yup, a ‘but’) that’s not necessary anymore. H wants to be provided with more flexibility for his time – do as he pleases. H felt like we were in a boss/EE relationship (Hmm..never said that before but likely a truth dart at me.)

3. Need to escape – I validated
-H needed to move out (On the hike, he seemed to regret but provided no apology. I heard, he needed to escape and doesn’t fully understand it.)
-I was needing him too much and he couldn’t take it anymore
-He needed more freedom than I was offering him to do this or that without helicopter cop

4. Detachment (worked for me and forced him inward?) – H said I hurt him when:
-I wouldn’t respond to his texts over summer (Did he fear losing me and finally look inward?):
-I wouldn’t tell him what happened to my arms in July
-I didn’t acknowledge receipt of something he put in the mailbox in Aug. He said: how was he supposed to know that I got it?
-I didn’t tell him about job change

5. Explanation that his life isn’t great – woe is me
-He’s only been to bar 10 times in 1.5 years – doesn’t look at others. Just goes for a drink.
-Doesn’t eat most nights
-Needs to hire someone to mow his lawn bc he couldn’t mow for 2 weeks with sprained ankle
-He talked about being afraid to move back home in case control sets in again. (I didn’t respond – no comment on returning home as I’m not ready and the being afraid…well, fear remains in him.)

6. Forgetful
-There have been several moments that he’s forgotten things/commitments
-Parcel was about missing multiple appts and that there were consequences if he continued to not show
-Didn’t come for the charging lawnmower on 10/28 despite it being his offer
-Text me at end of day about forgetting to come for charging lawnmower but didn’t ask about my appt earlier that day

7. Admitted faults of his own
-Would walk away from discussions – he admitted hating conflict; it would’ve been an argument. (Umm…no….)
-Agreed that he wouldn’t bring his friends over through the years but it seemed like he was still hiding the reason; he knows that I would be offended by that
-Wasn’t good at creating lists

8. I provided a short apology dump to demonstrate growth and self-reflection (held onto some for another day)
-It must have been a heavy weight to be my main source of happiness – I go out now and like it. He said he’s afraid I’ll stop doing that. He wants to see friends and thinks I should too.
-We both lost respect for each other. (He agreed.)
-I should have stood up to my parents to defend him. (He agreed again)

9. He said that I don’t listen to him. I validated his thought as I’ve heard this before from him. And, I’ve read that avoidants say things once (sometimes just think it) and expect that the spouse understands how passionate they feel about that comment. I feel like there may be some truth to this comment and that I could be a better listener. Something I still need to work on.

10. Confusion and emotional turmoil continue:
-H wants to introduce our 2 dogs to his. (Umm, not so fast. Why do you think?)
-We talked about how him walking away from our convos was disrespectful. H quickly agreed and it was obvious that he had come to that realization. Told him that disagreeing on something isn’t an argument. Rather, it should generate conversation which is what marriage is about. We agreed that he needs to stand up for himself without the anger. (Was this too much for someone in MLC?
-I told him that not bringing his friends over to our house made me feel like he was embarrassed of me (I think he was embarrassed of them but I threw it into convo.) This was a new thought for H and he appeared to ponder. This gave me reason for pause. Could there be something here…
-At drop off, we were in convo while I got out of truck and closed the door. I kept eye contact. Afterall, we were in a convo. As I walk around to driver window, I saw his face fall. I could see anger surfaced. I got to his window and said, that was an example of you not assuming I had good intentions when I shut the truck door while we were talking. Could you see that you got angry? He said yes. I said, now do you feel silly? You thought I was abandoning the convo by closing truck door before saying goodbye? He responded with a disappointed, “yes”. I reminded him that I’m not out to get him. Assuming good intent would help our situation. (hoping this resonates as I’ve said over the last 3 years pretty consistently!)

11. I interpreted and walked away with some questions/thoughts:
-H is missing comforts and securities of home life – he mentioned several very specific things that
-Since MLC, it has been rare that H would accept any food I’d offer which was always confusing. Now that I know ‘my food’ is the first thing he mentioned missing, I wonder if he wouldn’t accept it bc it would bring him back to what he misses and remind him of home. Is this what you hear/interpret?
-Anger and fear continue to bubble to the surface – he has greater awareness now (afraid control will return if he comes home)
-Could it be that EA told him there was no interest in PA by suggesting dating sites? Letting him down easy? – Is his fantasy over and he’s beginning to realize it?
-I don’t remember an apology but heard the confusion that I was dubbing it an EA. To him, she’s a friend. What do we make of this? Limerence? which I know very little about….
-H acknowledged that he’s not perfect and needs to make some changes for us. hmmmm
-Could the upcoming holidays and our milestone bdays be influencing his thoughts and push to talk?

At the 20-month mark from BD1, he finally voiced his issues and suggests we talk more frequently. Is he cycling back to me? I still wonder if he’s had an awakening. What are your thoughts?

In addition to my interpretation of the last 5 months, he hasn’t been returning S’s calls nor reaching out to D & S very much.

In the entire 2 days, H didn’t mention spending time with this HS weed friends so I suspect that chapter may have slowed down. The EA and remaining HS friend don’t often tinker with weed; it’s on a more social basis.

Will he remember the details of this convo? What he shared and/or what I said in response? In the moment, he seemed to be very engaged and coherent. Nothing he said was outlandish. If I didn’t know about MLC behaviors, I’d tell you that was my H.

Is he still in replay? Breaking stage of withdrawal; first awakening? Second awakening?

10/28: H didn’t show up for the mower charger. At 9 pm, H sent a text acknowledging that he didn’t and asked if I had unplugged it already. We exchanged a few texts about how to unplug it and that was it.

10/29, 10/30, 10/31: No reach out from H

Let's see what Nov brings....