What can I do differently?

[MamaG]

Affairs are a symptom of a deeper problem. The AP means nothing. They are a band-aid. Affairs are built upon lies and deceit, and require constant and enormous energies to maintain for they are build upon a horrible foundation - like building on sand. Very unstable.

This comment is so common around here and I just can't grasp it. Some days are easier than others to refocus thoughts. Today has been rough. I listened to a podcast talking about a sitch very similar to mine. Altho there was no reference to MLC (nor ages), it defined my life and my H's life leading up to BD pretty well. Reliving the details kicked me hard. I've tried to overcome and convince myself that A's mean nothing but it has had me in tears for hours now. I may need to implement scheduled anger/grieving sessions with timers. I've gotten as far as believing that MLCers are not rational and run....maybe bc I've seen it first hand with H. I guess actions do speak louder than words. Yet, I don't need to 'see'.

G, I read your story (again) and while our timelines may be similar, the MLCers are so different. H is quiet and tells me nothing unless we're friends. Up until about a month ago, we were friends often as H would take me to appointments and we'd share many moments. In the entire 6 months that H has been out of the house, H has not shared any information with me at all. All convos are basically about work and the occasional outing H has. Your scenario provides for monstering that gives insight to where her head is. Confusing as it may be, I would love to know what is going on in H's head/heart. Nothing.... And this right here is what's kept me in a holding pattern. I've lived in denial and fear as I analyze the bread crumbs. I long for a half bite so I can nourish my emptiness of loss and unknowns.

I bounce between many thoughts. Today's fun has been between:

"I won't consider providing good responses to H nor letting H in until there is a concerted effort by H. H must demonstrate true and consistent interest before I can entertain bread crumbs."

and

"I just wish H would text me so that I know I didn't push H away with all the short responses over the last 5 weeks. Should I have nudged H along the path we were on - seeing each other a couple times a week and staying connected - instead of going so dark? (H even called me in early May which he hasn't done on his own accord since last year.)"

As part of my growth, I am proud to say that I don't NEED H. I used to tell H that I want him, I love him and I need him - this all before MLC even. I genuinely believed that I needed him. I now know that I don't NEED him. And, yet another fear: I wonder where 'want' and 'love' will land.

Today's self-allowed rollercoaster ride has generated the question: Do we excuse the MLCer's behavior by classifying it under a term (MLC)? I want to empathize that H is in turmoil and it isn't about me nor M. I can't help but also wonder if LBS simply excuse abandonment, betrayal and unfaithful behaviors under the MLC umbrella. Does that mean that all who abandon, betray and are unfaithful are going through a crisis? hmmm

[MamaG]

DnJ - I'm reading through your response. Now, I ponder....until I can speak and respond. TY for holding my hand.

[Ready2Change]

If you chase a child, the child runs away. If you run away from the child, the child cases you. Same with your dogs.

Can you clarify that the child is H? If this is true, I have seen some of the chasing but continue to wonder if its a chase in response to me going NC (except providing responses) or if H is simply a clingy boomerang.

Basic human nature. Sometimes completely subconscious.

That is why we recommend all of the DBing rules and sandies list.

Your ultimate goal is to have H pursuing you. You become interesting because you are doing your thing and NOT pursuing him.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

I've tried to overcome and convince myself that A's mean nothing but it has had me in tears for hours now. I may need to implement scheduled anger/grieving sessions with timers. I've gotten as far as believing that MLCers are not rational and run....maybe bc I've seen it first hand with H. I guess actions do speak louder than words.

Scheduling a dedicated allotment of time to grieve, cry, get mad, punch a pillow, etc; and then when timer stops, continue on with your day, really does work. It’s part of rewiring our hurt minds and hearts.

In the entire 6 months that H has been out of the house, H has not shared any information with me at all.

That is pretty common. They are very secretive.

I would love to know what is going on in H's head/heart. Nothing.... And this right here is what's kept me in a holding pattern. I've lived in denial and fear as I analyze the bread crumbs. I long for a half bite so I can nourish my emptiness of loss and unknowns.

Yep. You’re on the cusp of letting go. Letting go the denial and fear. Something that helps: Embrace the unknown, the uncertainty.

You only control you. Your thoughts, actions, and reactions. That’s it. Three things. Pour yourself and your efforts into that which you can directly affect.

Thoughts and actions: Embrace and accept limbo. Uncertainty is perfect fine. Let go of that which you cannot control. Grab on to that which you can and do control. And through your actions and efforts you will yield an influence upon the uncertain. Remember, the lighthouse only can, only has to, shine. It’s up to the captain to steer their own ship.

Of course, you are more than just a lighthouse, you are also captain of your own ship. You decide when you let go the holding pattern. And for what’s it’s worth, it’s good, really good to be still, to be in that holding pattern, while one figures out their headings. Keep pondering, keep working towards letting go, keep embracing uncertainty, keep to the path, it does become far less counterintuitive.

Focus on you. Feed your soul not with mere breadcrumbs. (((Hugs))) It takes time to find one’s way. You really are doing well.

As part of my growth, I am proud to say that I don't NEED H. I used to tell H that I want him, I love him and I need him - this all before MLC even. I genuinely believed that I needed him. I now know that I don't NEED him. And, yet another fear: I wonder where 'want' and 'love' will land.

See. Look how well you’re doing.

Want vs need. Oh, I remember that lesson. Good job MG!

As for where ‘want’ and ‘love’ will land:

Do we excuse the MLCer's behavior by classifying it under a term (MLC)? I want to empathize that H is in turmoil and it isn't about me nor M. I can't help but also wonder if LBS simply excuse abandonment, betrayal and unfaithful behaviors under the MLC umbrella.

Keep your heart soft and squishy. Something I strove for. A heading. In letting go, embracing limbo, focusing on me, not looking to breadcrumbs, scheduling time to grieve and cry - in all that, I kept my heart soft and squishy.

Being the recipient of betrayal, abandonment, unfaithfulness, one could easily, maybe even by default, go down a path that hardens their heart. Seems a reasonable response to protect oneself from such hurts. Yet building a wall around our heart is not a great idea. A calcified heart cannot yield. A wall of rock cannot allow someone/something in. Or out!

Soft and squishy is not just for some better future; it’s for the here and now. A harden and walled-off heart cannot let go or let out the hurt, pain, anger, hatred, and such.

Keeping one’s heart soft and squishy, hurts! Lean into the pain. Walk through it. Work through it.

Do we excuse the MLCer’s behaviour? Do we excuse the betrayal, abandonment, unfaithfulness, etc? No. We forgive.

Love the person, forgive the sin.

We can, and should, hold them accountable. And forgive. There is an amazing peace and contentment when one truly lets go of retribution, vengeance, and such. Letting go and writing paid in full on whatever invoice their heart is holding.

Grudges require so much energies to hold on to. Yet, folks struggle to set them down. And not pick them up again.

Soft and squishy. For what it’s worth, is a conviction, a heading through the brambles and bog of hurt, pain, and disillusionment of our situations.

One can love someone and yet not like the behaviour. It’s ok.

‘Want’ and ‘Love’ can remain. And with a soft and squishy heart, I’ll pretty much guarantee they will. What will change, especially in lovingly letting go and forgiving: You. You will change.

You will ‘want’ and ‘love’ you first and foremost!

Also, you likely will still love H. And, in what will seem utterly incredible, you will be perfectly ok letting go of H.

If you truly love someone let them go. I’m sure you’ve heard that before. It took me, my situation to actually learn what that means.

It is incredible the strength one discovers in letting go. Read my post again, and see all that one can let go of. Loving let go of.

Have a great day MG!

D

[MamaG]

Going nuclear and blasting the particulars is a road sometimes taken. It certainly gets it all out there. And usually drives a pretty big wedge. Nuclear is not something I’d recommend.

It isn't in me to be nuclear. And, as I've pointed out, H has been very quiet - not a whole lot of monstering. Thanks to this site, I know to present myself calmly, be cheery and to not talk about R/M. This has almost forced the calmness we both bring to each other in our interactions. And, I'm hurt. When I get hurt, I tend to internalize it until I can make sense of it....or forget it.

It appears both H and I are wearing a mask. We both remained very calm and collected when we interacted (since BD). Although I believe we both tried to be calm before BD, the 'try' part didn't last. We would yell passionately in the heat of disagreements. H would run and I would chase. Sometimes I'd try holding out for H to approach me, but H typically outlasted me, which only led to more anger in me. I now wonder if H was looking for me to chase (as I interpreted it then) or if H just simply needed space that I didn't afford him because I wanted to resolve the matter and have a great remainder of the day. Space allows awakening, doesn't it?

DnJ, I'm still digesting your comments on fear. Ya - I need to work on fear. It would free me. Time allows awakenings too, doesn't it?

H didn't ask about appt nor offer to take me. Did H forget about the appt? Did H interpret my last text (7 loooooongg days ago) as my medical stuff is behind us and H feels free-at-last? Is my M officially over? Space and time will tell. Ugh, man does that hurt. Goin dark is not for the weak.

No, not simply or easy for me. Someone you know well ... knows exactly why it SEEMS that way. laugh

Many, many, many, months past BD, when I could speak, I eventually was able to just state very short factual description using W’s own words/actions.

Grok, thanks for reminding me that it's normal. I often wish I could move through my own confusion, fears, feelings, turmoil so much faster. Wish I could be stronger and wiser. I don't know which feeling to battle in each moment. It's so overwhelming. Do I go with winning over sad/lonely, angry, impatient, leery, confused. Sigh

Happy father's day to all the dads out there.

[MamaG]

I've not shared much about D21 and S23 so as to not overshare on a public site. And, H hadn't completely withdrawn from kids. Historically, H would get updates on kids from me and rarely reached out to them on his own. Since H moved out, H has been texting once or twice a week to both of them - I guess in theory there has been an increase in outreach to them. Albeit, H knows less about them as there isn't much info shared in the superficial exchanges.

After yesterday, I need some help explaining to the kids (adult kids, that is) about H's current state and behaviors. I'll provide some info before seeking your input on how to provide feedback to the kids as I don't want to negatively influence their relationship nor H's journey. Thank you all in advance for any guidance you can share.

Initially, both kids made attempts to stay connected and verbally share what is transcending in their lives, while remaining caring towards H. Within 2 months of BD2 (when they learned about H's wish to end MR), D quickly noticed that H was impacting her mental health and began detaching more and more with each passing week. At first, D wasn't sure but quickly learned that H showed no interest in her life - grades, BF, vacations, day-to-day anything. S continued to stay connected much longer. Like H, S holds feelings in and pushes them down, making it hard to know how S is dealing/coping. More recently (6 months after BD2), S has pulled away from H (responding to texts with less detail about himself and sometimes not responding) but hasn't fully detached. S is concerned for H's mental health based on BD info and that remains on the forefront.

Questions:
Do MLCers favor a child? If so, what drives the favoritism?
Does a child with similar personality to LBS get favored or unfavored?
If not favoritism, then what?
What do I share with kids/not share?

On Father's Day, S witnessed what D has been saying about H....H has no interest in her life. And, S experienced a bit of H's limited interest in S's life too. Ex: S made a comment at breakfast that would typically engage H. Nope - no luck. Later they met up at night for a treat and S brought the subject up again with added detail. Nope, H still didn't take interest nor engage. S was crushed and it seems that S is beginning to see what D has been expressing about H for some time. If I know S, his wheels are spinning, but won't say anything to me. S will continue to look for 'sign's (helicopter hovering).

Question:
Do I tell kids that it's normal for MLCer to withdraw more before 'awakening'? And, if so, how do I explain this to them so they understand and aren't taking it personally?
Is S finally seeing the lack of interest that may have been there all along?
Was yesterday a tough day for H and H couldn't wear the mask? Can I tell kids that this is a symptom of depression?

A typical Father's Day would consist of being together ALL day with various events and visiting my dad for the afternoon. Based on what was shared with me about their 2 visits with H yesterday, H may have cycled between visits yesterday, since H's escape attempts were more prominent with the second visit.

Question:
Why didn't H wear his mask despite having been able to in the past for the kids? Why was it more obvious to kids that there is something going on? How do I explain this to the kids?

D had to build internal strength to see H at all (felt like she had to) and then was relieved it was behind her. To boot, H was itching to go back to his house as soon as H's treat was over. Sat up in his seat and gave all indications that he didn't want to be there. "If he didn't want to see us again, why did he even agree to it? He acted like he had plans and was late."

When I tell my kids that H has to hit rock bottom before H can come out of it, they get upset. "Why do you want him to get worse?" I try to explain but they don't understand and tell me that it can't get worse than it was in Feb 2023 (BD1).

Questions:
What do I say to kids? What words do I use to explain to adult children what's happening? 'When they ask, what's going on with dad', what do I respond with?
What do I not say to the kids?
Do I continue to encourage them to not give up on H and suggest that they continue to stay connected or at least respond to "How are you? What are you doing this weekend?" texts?

H continues to share his life with 3 (guy) best friends that he's been friends with since school years. One is single, one is engaged and one is married. All 3 are 'I support you with whatever decision you make' friends. Kids hear about these interactions and I let them know that H shares what H wants them to know. H hides what he doesn't want them to know.

Question:
Is there a better way to explain H's behavior to them?
How do I ensure that they don't feel like H has replaced them with 3 friends?

For me, yesterday was a great day celebrating my dad. Dad is getting older and I appreciate every day and moment I can share by his side. It was a great family day and a reminder of how blessed I am to have so many in my corner.

I also sent a text to my FIL. FIL responded with how often he thinks of me and will always love me. Clearly, FIL is heartbroken from all this. If only FIL would give H a kick in the pants....or even reach out. Sigh.

Appreciate any and all direction provided.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

With older kids, especially adult kids, your job is not to facilitate or maintain or rebuild the relationship between them and their Dad. Your job is to just not destroy it.

At 21 and 23, daughter and son will start seeing things/life through a different lens. More serious long term relationship as an example. They would not want their spouse to do to them, what their Dad did to you. That growth is a difficult path to get through. Seeing their Dad in such a light. They need to find/figure out their relationship with him, and he with them.

Do MLCers favor a child? If so, what drives the favoritism?
Does a child with similar personality to LBS get favored or unfavored?
If not favoritism, then what?
What do I share with kids/not share?

Oh yes, it is common for a MLCer to pick a favourite. And it then follows that they have a least favourite as well. With my four kids I saw it clearly. XW/Mom placed youngest son at the bottom. Her favourite switched as her moods switched.

Is it personality? My youngest son is like me. He even looks like me. However, what I think is more definitive is how much they go along with the crisis person. My son told Mom what he thought of her and OM. And she dumped him quick. Just like family and friends that didn’t/wouldn’t gobble up her narrative. As XW said regarding the enabling folks she only met weeks prior - these are my true friends!

What to share with kids is an interesting conundrum. Knowledge is power. And you want your kids to have power and be able to make good proper decisions. Basically, if they bring up a topic, discuss it openly and honestly.

Do I tell kids that it's normal for MLCer to withdraw more before 'awakening'? And, if so, how do I explain this to them so they understand and aren't taking it personally?
Is S finally seeing the lack of interest that may have been there all along?
Was yesterday a tough day for H and H couldn't wear the mask? Can I tell kids that this is a symptom of depression?

Why didn't H wear his mask despite having been able to in the past for the kids? Why was it more obvious to kids that there is something going on? How do I explain this to the kids?

Absolutely you can explain depression and the associated behaviours.

As for withdrawal/awakening: I’d stick to the here and now stuff. Dad is in crisis. Due to long ago unrealized and unresolved traumas from when he was young. These pains and hurts were stirred up as his own mortality pressed upon him. Dad does not know what hurts, or even why he hurts. He just hurts. Ceaseless torment. And as such, he runs!

He is running from anyone and anything. He is running from him self! Kids, spouse, pets, friends, family, work, etc, all get caught up in the blast, all become collateral damage. It has nothing to do with them! Dad’s pain is from a time when they weren’t even born.

I’d stick to the running/replay stage for explaining Dad’s behaviours. You can certainly explain the crisis journey, as questions would most likely come up. However, be honest. Not all MLCers exit their crisis. Not all exit healed and better. Some find their peace by turning their back on their past life and people from it. Some never find peace. And some do the hard work. Time will tell with H/Dad.

Yes, Dad often puts on his mask. It requires much energy to pretend, to wear a mask. I suspect Father’s Day stirred up plenty of feelings and it all became overwhelming. Dad’s path is emotionally driven. And he was likely emotionally exhausted.

As to son and daughter. As time goes on a few things occur. They heal and let go the rose coloured glasses. They start to see things more clearly. Dad’s moods and his Jekyll/Hyde personalities are seen more and more. Dad also realizes this, or becomes tired, and lets himself slip more and more around those that know him and realize how he is.

When I tell my kids that H has to hit rock bottom before H can come out of it, they get upset. "Why do you want him to get worse?" I try to explain but they don't understand and tell me that it can't get worse than it was in Feb 2023 (BD1).

There is nothing so bad that it can’t get worse.

Oddly, that is quite a positive message. No matter what is going on, it could be worse.

Hitting rock bottom: People seldom will make a change, even a positive one, until their pain outweighs the ease of remaining in place. People will do incredible, enormous, things/efforts to avoid changing. There is an entire change management philosophy about this.

These are normal average healthy rational people. A MLCer is way worse.

A person in crisis, in depression and emotional turmoil runs from their pain. Until their pain outweighs, reaches a tipping point, they will continue to run.

Running behaviours shift their focus from their pain. The modern age has so many shinny playthings to distract one. We live in a luxury that the kings of old never even experienced. Almost anything is a mere click away. And the ubiquitous cell phone is an incredible distraction.

Rock bottom is when one realized the distractions don’t work anymore. Be it pain. Be it realization of the futility and meaningless of their path. Rock bottom is a choice to change.

What do I say to kids? What words do I use to explain to adult children what's happening? 'When they ask, what's going on with dad', what do I respond with?
What do I not say to the kids?
Do I continue to encourage them to not give up on H and suggest that they continue to stay connected or at least respond to "How are you? What are you doing this weekend?" texts?

I’d not press the kids to stay connected. Nor would I suggest not staying connected. Listen to them, and give feedback to their chosen path forward. Their headings (which you can gently steer towards), in my opinion, finding understanding and empathy about Dad and his plight; finding acceptance and forgiveness of his behaviours.

What not to say. Do not tell them everything is going to be ok with Dad. Be hopefully, yet be honest. A crisis is truly a horrible thing. I’d not wish it upon anyone.

Is there a better way to explain H's behavior to them?
How do I ensure that they don't feel like H has replaced them with 3 friends?

Time travel. Remember, H/Dad is reliving his youth. He is trying to relive all he feels he missed out on. And, he is emotionally there, well then. He is a teenager - emotionally.

Has Dad replace the kids with these friends? Yes. Well sort of. Dad is replaced by teen/MLC Dad. This pod person is living those long ago years again. Needing to grow up from when he was emotionally stunted. Pod person Dad didn’t have kids and wasn’t married, as such not much empathy or interaction towards the people and events of his present day life.

My XW tossed aside our four kids. And she latched onto OM’s son as her own. She’d talk about OM’s son, as her son, right to her kids. Very wild/weird stuff.

My kids were thrown away and replaced. They do feel that. It’s not about kids trying to not to feel that, it’s about rationalizing those feelings. Understanding. Empathizing even.

Do rationalize the facts and the events of the here and now. Dad’s behaviours. How it makes them feel. What they feel. Why they feel.

Acceptance is basically emotional understanding.

Hope this helps.

You’ve got the gift of time. Keep moving forward.

D

[Valeska19]

I've not shared much about D21 and S23 so as to not overshare on a public site. And, H hadn't completely withdrawn from kids. Historically, H would get updates on kids from me and rarely reached out to them on his own. Since H moved out, H has been texting once or twice a week to both of them - I guess in theory there has been an increase in outreach to them. Albeit, H knows less about them as there isn't much info shared in the superficial exchanges.

After yesterday, I need some help explaining to the kids (adult kids, that is) about H's current state and behaviors. I'll provide some info before seeking your input on how to provide feedback to the kids as I don't want to negatively influence their relationship nor H's journey. Thank you all in advance for any guidance you can share.

Initially, both kids made attempts to stay connected and verbally share what is transcending in their lives, while remaining caring towards H. Within 2 months of BD2 (when they learned about H's wish to end MR), D quickly noticed that H was impacting her mental health and began detaching more and more with each passing week. At first, D wasn't sure but quickly learned that H showed no interest in her life - grades, BF, vacations, day-to-day anything. S continued to stay connected much longer. Like H, S holds feelings in and pushes them down, making it hard to know how S is dealing/coping. More recently (6 months after BD2), S has pulled away from H (responding to texts with less detail about himself and sometimes not responding) but hasn't fully detached. S is concerned for H's mental health based on BD info and that remains on the forefront.



Questions:
Do MLCers favor a child? If so, what drives the favoritism?
Does a child with similar personality to LBS get favored or unfavored?
If not favoritism, then what?
What do I share with kids/not share?

Looking for answers to these questions is a cheeseless tunnel to go down. It's not helpful. Sharing with kids the reason "why" will not likely validate their feelings.

On Father's Day, S witnessed what D has been saying about H....H has no interest in her life. And, S experienced a bit of H's limited interest in S's life too. Ex: S made a comment at breakfast that would typically engage H. Nope - no luck. Later they met up at night for a treat and S brought the subject up again with added detail. Nope, H still didn't take interest nor engage. S was crushed and it seems that S is beginning to see what D has been expressing about H for some time. If I know S, his wheels are spinning, but won't say anything to me. S will continue to look for 'sign's (helicopter hovering).

Question:
Do I tell kids that it's normal for MLCer to withdraw more before 'awakening'? And, if so, how do I explain this to them so they understand and aren't taking it personally?
Is S finally seeing the lack of interest that may have been there all along?
Was yesterday a tough day for H and H couldn't wear the mask? Can I tell kids that this is a symptom of depression?

Short answer is no. If the kids want to talk about it - listen, validate. Quit speculating on why he does what he does... it truly doesn't matter.

A typical Father's Day would consist of being together ALL day with various events and visiting my dad for the afternoon. Based on what was shared with me about their 2 visits with H yesterday, H may have cycled between visits yesterday, since H's escape attempts were more prominent with the second visit.

Question:
Why didn't H wear his mask despite having been able to in the past for the kids? Why was it more obvious to kids that there is something going on? How do I explain this to the kids?

Who cares... you are supposed to be out living your life.

D had to build internal strength to see H at all (felt like she had to) and then was relieved it was behind her. To boot, H was itching to go back to his house as soon as H's treat was over. Sat up in his seat and gave all indications that he didn't want to be there. "If he didn't want to see us again, why did he even agree to it? He acted like he had plans and was late."

When I tell my kids that H has to hit rock bottom before H can come out of it, they get upset. "Why do you want him to get worse?" I try to explain but they don't understand and tell me that it can't get worse than it was in Feb 2023 (BD1).

Questions:
What do I say to kids? What words do I use to explain to adult children what's happening? 'When they ask, what's going on with dad', what do I respond with?
What do I not say to the kids?
Do I continue to encourage them to not give up on H and suggest that they continue to stay connected or at least respond to "How are you? What are you doing this weekend?" texts?

H continues to share his life with 3 (guy) best friends that he's been friends with since school years. One is single, one is engaged and one is married. All 3 are 'I support you with whatever decision you make' friends. Kids hear about these interactions and I let them know that H shares what H wants them to know. H hides what he doesn't want them to know.

Question:
Is there a better way to explain H's behavior to them?
How do I ensure that they don't feel like H has replaced them with 3 friends?

For me, yesterday was a great day celebrating my dad. Dad is getting older and I appreciate every day and moment I can share by his side. It was a great family day and a reminder of how blessed I am to have so many in my corner.

I also sent a text to my FIL. FIL responded with how often he thinks of me and will always love me. Clearly, FIL is heartbroken from all this. If only FIL would give H a kick in the pants....or even reach out. Sigh.

Appreciate any and all direction provided.

My direction is going to be very short.

You really need to challenge yourself to stop focusing on your H so much. I understand what a difficult dynamic it is to break... truly.. but so much of your posts are about him and very little about you.

What are you willing to do to change your life and make you the lead character of your story? Are you in support groups? How about IC? Changing the dynamic of a relationship is difficult. It brings up feelings that are challenging to handle. Guilt, Fear, Anger... these feelings are normal but can get feel unbearable when your partner is immature (which yours clearly is). One often needs external support to say on this new path.


I have posed this question to you before in which you immediately go back to asking so many questions about your H. Why? Is it difficult to put yourself first? What feelings come up for you?


IMHO - The path the true healing is understanding what you really need to be happy in this life... and then to be willing to fight like H3ll to get it.

So what needs to happy in order for to have a dog in the fight??

[MamaG]

Is it personality? My youngest son is like me. He even looks like me. However, what I think is more definitive is how much they go along with the crisis person. My son told Mom what he thought of her and OM. And she dumped him quick.

Looks like I may be seeing a similar situation. D looks a lot like me and has many similar traits. Although D was daddy's girl to the upteenth degree, D is no longer in that role. And, this has impacted D quite a bit. And with the interaction earlier this month when D told H to 'ask for things before taking them' (and H had a temper tantrum on his way out), it's clear D isn't on H's favorite list right now.

As for withdrawal/awakening: I’d stick to the here and now stuff. Dad is in crisis. Due to long ago unrealized and unresolved traumas from when he was young. These pains and hurts were stirred up as his own mortality pressed upon him. Dad does not know what hurts, or even why he hurts. He just hurts. Ceaseless torment. And as such, he runs!

He is running from anyone and anything. He is running from him self! Kids, spouse, pets, friends, family, work, etc, all get caught up in the blast, all become collateral damage. It has nothing to do with them! Dad’s pain is from a time when they weren’t even born.

Both S and D look at me cross-eyed if I try to explain with any flavor of the above. It's almost like they think I'm crazy to believe this...never mind say it. I believe what you said about them seeing it for themselves in time. This may be the only way they'll believe.

D has been quick to anger and has been full of anxiety since BD. In the past, she would bring up H as a topic but blame me for bringing it up. It's like D wanted to talk about H but didn't want to. After getting into any H talk, D would backpedal and cut the convo short. Now, D is more comfortable talking about things that bother her and how it makes her feel but D seems to be quick to anger (in general). D is also dismissive about her feelings and it's getting concerning - to your point, she has dropped the rose colored glasses. I trust home life changes are a big contributor in addition to the S. D moved home for the summer from school (that's hard in and of itself), D has been my primary care giver and seems to feel some obligation to keep me company. All this to say, D's emotional state is rocky at best. I expect this will become easier on her as the doctor has lifted some of my restrictions and I will return to work in some capacity in the first week of July.

As a person, S is super supportive and empathetic. His rose colored glasses will stay on much longer as he continues to support H. S will not speak about H to me. No exceptions. Yes, I worry about S as he is much like H. For this reason, I ask him to not be afraid to vent, share or I'll bring up simple topics about H to ensure S knows that there aren't ill feelings.

I’d not press the kids to stay connected. Nor would I suggest not staying connected. Listen to them, and give feedback to their chosen path forward. Their headings (which you can gently steer towards), in my opinion, finding understanding and empathy about Dad and his plight; finding acceptance and forgiveness of his behaviours.

What not to say. Do not tell them everything is going to be ok with Dad. Be hopefully, yet be honest. A crisis is truly a horrible thing. I’d not wish it upon anyone.

Ooops - I'm pretty sure I've confidently shared that H will come out of it. I'll make some adjustments here. It makes sense to not make guarantees. I've also encouraged that they don't give up on H and requested that they respond to all texts. Perhaps I'll lay off this too. They're adults and can make their decisions. TY

You really need to challenge yourself to stop focusing on your H so much.

Yup. I agree wholeheartedly. Yet, I don't know how to control that H is the first thing on my mind when I wake, last on my mind when I fall asleep and often times in my dreams. Sigh.

Changing the dynamic of a relationship is difficult. It brings up feelings that are challenging to handle. Guilt, Fear, Anger... these feelings are normal but can get feel unbearable when your partner is immature (which yours clearly is). One often needs external support to say on this new path.

For those of you following along and possibly living through a similar sitch, you know that it took me a long time to take the first step towards detachment. My medical issues, and allowing H to care for me through them has delayed detachment. I'm still not sure that I/H are, or will be better for it. But, I know that at the time, I needed H to hold my hand even if the H who joined me was a skeleton of the old H at times.

Other than medical issues, why did I continue to chase breadcrumbs instead of detaching from a H who had moved out and fired me as a wife? Well, I came to the conclusion just last week that first, I had to admit to my fears. While journaling on this site, I determined what my fear(s) are literally as I was typing. This week.....well, this week I learn just how hard detaching is as I comfort myself facing my fears. Just when I thought I couldn't hurt more, boy was I mistaken. Talking myself through the fears while running back to denial and anger confirmed that LBS's go through phases and bounce back and forth, too. LBS process definitely isn't linear. So eye-opening to what I've been reading about MLC phases not being linear.

People will do incredible, enormous, things/efforts to avoid changing. There is an entire change management philosophy about this.

Yup! I often coach employees through Change Management as part of my professional role. How did I not connect this dot? Rhetorical. Rational humans struggle with change; myself included. Although, there have been many instances where I would consider myself an emotional human more than a rational one.

IMHO - The path the true healing is understanding what you really need to be happy in this life... and then to be willing to fight like H3ll to get it.

So what needs to happy in order for to have a dog in the fight??

You've made me think, Valeska19 (again)! Imagine the scary epiphany when one has no idea what makes them happy in this life. Clearly, appeasing H (and kids) was my life. I know I need to make some changes here. BD and onward has taught me just how much my life revolved around him and I had no clue. Depending on H for my happiness must have been tremendous pressure for H too. Ooof

I'm blessed to have so many options to GAL. I'm surrounded by many great friends and family members. Yet, I just haven't been pursuing my options much. Medical issues contributed some but I can no longer hide behind that reason. Fearing that I have to tell my story contributed a lot towards my hibernation. I'm making some changes and I trust you won't let me forget to keep making changes in this space. Next week, I've made plans to put my toes in the sand for a couple days with family (ironically H's family as they invited me and I accepted). And, I'll be celebrating the 4th with a close friend. I'm also looking forward to returning to the profession role - I've learned that I love my job and the satisfaction it brings me!

Still crying through the healing and slogging through. I appreciate you both holding my hand.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

Both S and D look at me cross-eyed if I try to explain with any flavor of the above. It's almost like they think I'm crazy to believe this...never mind say it. I believe what you said about them seeing it for themselves in time. This may be the only way they'll believe.

In that respect I was fortunate that BD was during supper in front on my kids and parents. Seven witnesses to her behaviour and grand announcement.

Most folks have zero awareness of the true reality, magnitude, and horror of a midlife crisis. The common assumption is the Hollywood comedic version. The uninitiated do fight and struggle against the real description, calling only upon their as so far life’s beliefs and experiences; like we all do. It takes seeing the wild behaviours and staggering fragility of the MLCer’s grip on reality to open one’s eyes. And even then, it is difficult to fathom just how deep such a crisis goes.

A once rock solid spouse, a previous responsible parent. Rewriting them into their current status is difficult. These crisis folks become the opposite of who they were. That in itself is difficult to absorb.

I don't know how to control that H is the first thing on my mind when I wake, last on my mind when I fall asleep and often times in my dreams.

Perfectly normal MG. My at the time W was similarly in my thoughts and heart and dreams.

You do not control your dreams. You do/can control how long you’ll dwell upon H once you wake from your slumber.

It’s ok to allow yourself to ponder upon rising from sleep. Taking a few moments as you orient yourself to how things presently are. Then, imagine a big red stop sign, and on to making the bed, brushing your teeth, and going about your day and awesome life. (BTW, the awesome-ness is there, it just takes time to discover and feel/believe it.)

One day, H will no longer be the first thing on your mind when awakening. Be patient, such comes when it is ready to. Part of grief’s journey. It’s bittersweet, sad and joyful, when we begin to start our day without our spouse being our first thought. That sadness does diminish more and more as we progress towards acceptance.

Still crying through the healing and slogging through.

You are doing fine. And yes, it is quite a slog. Keep moving forward. You got this!

D