Honesty and 2x4s are always welcomed - sometimes I need that.
Perhaps my updates are doing myself justice. I've been GALing and detaching to the extent I can stomach. I'm getting better but have room to grow. Having been in the dark to MLC and DBing until Feb 2024, I lost a year of valuable insight on how to behave. I've only been at it for 3.5 months and I have room for improvement. And, it doesn't help that I struggle with buying into the strategies.
I struggle, like I've read in other threads with the concept of if I let go, will H miss me or further wander? Laura Doyle podcasts provide tempting solutions which contradict 'going dark' or feedback to 'provide little insight to H's inquiries'. It's not black and white to me which makes my thoughts scramble.
Unfortunately letting go isn't a strategy to gain your H back. It's a part of acceptance. Both of your H as he is. And the marriage as it is.
Is is part of the grieving process. Unfortunately if you use it as a tactic - it's manipulation. And manipulation provides short term relief with some long term consequences.
Letting go very hard. Re-read the detach section on the forum and then ask yourself... how can you detach from your H. How can you move closer to your needs and further away from caring how he responds?
Maybe include some in the next posts.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I've been GALing (keeping occupied more than having fun) so much that I haven't had the oppty to check-in here. I looked forward to today so that I could sit and feel, as I knew plans for today were lighter and would allow for this update. Is it strange that I wanted to sit and update this forum? It's therapeutic and I look forward to the input, responses, empathy and 2x4s. It really helps to not feel alone. I've stopped venting and sharing with friends/family. I don't feel like they agree with DBing. They often remind me of Catholic principles and that they don't fully align with DBing. It becomes a struggle and adds to my confusion on how to behave, respond, be a person. The overthinking needs to go out the window for me to keep my sanity. One day at a time.
Please know and believe that despite some focused dialogue on my H (below), I know it's getting easier and GALing really is helping. Still, I have moments of focus and a heavy desire to understand.
Valeska19, I took your suggestion and read up on Detachment. Even though it wasn't my first time reading it, I learned a lot. Here is what came to light: 1 I'm bored: our lives revolved around each other. Meals, activities, events, outings, everything. So much action that kept us busy and going....and when there was no action, we still had each other to share Netflix (and loved it). I'm GALing but haven't found the thing that can really consume me and my happiness. Feel like I could do a better job here. Codependency didn't feel wrong and I need to learn that it's unhealthy - I'm still not there. Either way, I really enjoyed our time together regardless of what we were doing/not doing. Perhaps I still miss him. On the codependent front, it's hard to believe how many of us (LBS) have so much going for ourselves. The MLCer tends to bring less to the table, yet are the ones to walk away. SMH, in disbelief.
2 I'm hurt, mad, angry, betrayed: we worked so hard all our lives and shared dreams that we either accomplished or were working towards. These are common feelings shared on this board but admitting to it and feeling the emotions is needed. I'm still hurt, mad, angry and feeling betrayed.
3 I'm disappointed: feel like I meant nothing to him despite giving so much of myself (willingly) for a common goal. While I know that I meant (maybe even still do mean) a lot to H, I was fired as a W (ouch). I know how much I brought to the relationship and am in disbelief that between the two of us, it is him who walked. I know I'll make it, but hate needing to.
4 H is everywhere, but nowhere in physical form: photos in house, belongings everywhere, wedding band on my finger (and his). My surroundings haven't changed. I was able to look the other way (or at least I thought) but it seems I'm struggling as I try to make the effort to detach. It's real and I'm feeling the emptiness and hurt feelings of his absence, followed by texts from his boomerang style that derail me. How do I not let H control my emotions?
Of note, I know the jury is out on whether the vanisher or the boomerang style is 'easier' to live through. I really don't know - just thought I'd validate the confusion. I'll take the third option - neither, please!
I want to work on - suggestions welcomed: 1 Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
2 Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
3 Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to me to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
Yes, I continue to feel out where/how we got here. Hope that my interest in understanding will subside more as I move towards acceptance. BD1 was 16 months ago but we lived 'happily ever after' for 6 months before BD2 which was nearly 9 months ago. I've been very tolerant and understanding and something has to change - 180s I suppose.
MrP's thread had two comments that spoke to me - I'm documenting for myself, as I read my own thread from time to time: 1 I'm trying to balance detachment and upholding boundaries for my well-being with the core ideas behind DBing related to exploring a potential shift towards R, piecing, etc. if this truly has the potential to move in that direction. 2 Sometimes the greatest act of letting go is letting the person learn their own lessons. Allowing someone to sit in their struggles and suffering without saving the day is what will not only teach them lessons, it will leave them with an understanding of how to apply them.
MA's thread had comments that summarize my situation well (my thoughts in parenthesis): 1. The relationship worked because we were co dependent. I felt adored & validated, which kept me in a stuck position of (I would finish this sentence with: putting up with edibles and the aftermath, lazy parenting, gaslighting, conflict avoidant personality, no vision/foresight, completing honey-do lists but not compiling the list, fulfilling household responsibilities while working FT, mothering him, getting H out of responsibility and pickles.) We provided each other safety and security. (I loved it...maybe H didn't. Detaching is helping me see this. I'm a fixer and thrived on solving H's problems, issues, dilemmas, etc. Is it strange that although I reflect, I still crave H and don't see this as a reason to turn away?)
2. He continued throughout to throw snippets at me that I would grab hold of & read too much into. The lovely vets on here would warn me & I eventually started to really listen. It took probably 4 months from BD before I stopped my doormat & spying behaviors. (It took me 6 months before I stopped spying and I'm still really learning to not be a doormat).
3. I struggle to stay present & my mind keeps wandering to the future.....H has been crazy throughout, proper mid life distress and angst. (My H continues to drink, enjoy edibles and porn (his EA), randomly reaches out to kids).
4. I've got the most amazing friends & family that have supported me. H is less lucky, he doesn't have the same support network as me. His family aren't interested & H has few friends (albeit, H has close and long term friends. Hope they're doing him and our M justice).
Now that I've documented some things for myself, I could use some insight on a few things: H had money management issues when we started dating ... clearly nothing has changed. H's crisis may in part be him needing to prove he can do it without me. I remember H's mom having to take over his finances between 18 and 21 bc he just didn't (not couldn't) do it. And, silly me, took it over from his mom as he moved in with me. H never had to figure it out.
One thought surfaced. H income and my income were 'ours' - one family acct - since we were engaged. I'm suspecting that this contributed to H feeling controlled. Until recently, I don't recall H being bothered that I earn more than him - perhaps this has bothered him through the years. Interestingly, the story H tells when sharing the news that we're separated is, "I bought a house and moved out". This reinforces (to me) how much my income has bothered H. Is H stroking his ego and proving that he earns ample by 'buying a house)? Does H need to prove to himself that he can make it on his own and doesn't need me? After all, H moved in with me at 21.
H also suffers from self-esteem issues which comes as no surprise for a MLCer. While I wouldn't call H heavy, there are body parts that he struggles to make lean. I've always complimented specific body parts that I love about H and lately H has been flaunting them. And, simultaneously, has expressed interest in the gym, yoga, marathons over the last 6 months. I know weight has been an issue since he was very young. As a child, H struggled to keep weight off and keep up with running exercises required for sports. That said, H has turned into a well built and toned man whom he knows I'm attracted to. Areas of concern for him, I don't comment on. Alternatively, I eat LOTS of everything and have an unbelievable metabolism - always maintaining a healthy body weight/BMI with little effort. Could this bother H? Is H still healing from the kids who picked on him many decades ago? Are there things I can avoid doing/saying?
For those who have followed my story, I've had some medical issues that H insisted he see through with me. I continue to ask why this is important to him - can anyone here shed any insight?
Medical visits have subsided, providing for no deliberate need to get together. While we were seeing each other a lot over the last 9 months, we enjoyed each others company, held hands often, hugged regularly, kissed on occasion and enjoyed some intimacy. Each visit provided for an increased comfort. What impact do frequent visits have on a MLCer and their path? Did they hold him back from feeling my loss? Make H reconsider the separation desire?
On the flipside, the appts provided us with a view into each others thoughts and whereabouts. In theory, we let each other down easy/slowly. All the while, pulling at my heartstrings.
Since surgery 2 weeks ago, H reached out via text several times. Responses to H have been deliberately delayed and short (DBing) and I have been crying through each response to him. Partially bc I'm disappointed that my delays are measured in hours and not days as is recommended here. And, in part bc I want to engage H and go back and forth with him for hours but I don't. Sigh
Outreaches from H after surgery: 1 day after: "how are you feeling" 3 days after: "just checking to see how you're feeling" 4 days after: "how are you feeling? did you poop yet" 8 days after: How are you doing? any word on results" 12 days after: How are you doing? hope it's getting better"
After a short response from me (dismissive for my style), here is what H came back with: 1. That's good news 3. That's great 4. That's great. try to back off the meds (has no idea how many meds I'm taking) 8. Maybe walk for a bit and not sit so much. Don't back off meds too much 12. That's great news. Take it slow. Just bc you're feeling better doesn't mean you're back to normal.
I suspect H cares and is trying to show it - reasons unknown. It wasn't obvious at first but after Day8's direction from H, I concluded that H is in the business of providing advice to me. This is a 180 for him. It wasn't H's style to invest thought so that he could provide direction. Unless I asked for input, which didn't always get provided, I figured it out no matter what 'it' was. Is it shame/guilt/something else behind H's advice? Why else could these comments be flowing my way? And, is this how we define a clingy boomerang?
Of note, I haven't reached out to H in quite some time, possibly a month or so's time. H has been reaching out to me and I've responded each time. H has used surgery has reason for recent outreaches, but today, H sent a subsequent text that is not about my health/recovery. H was thinking about a spring task that is generally completed mid-June and asked when H could come to take care of it. With previous guidance from here, I responded with "Thanks for the offer. I already have someone lined up to take care of it." This is the first time that I've turned him down. The first time I showed him that I'm not sitting on a rocking chair at the front porch. The first time H considers that I don't need him. His emoji response said it all to me - H was surprised, hurt, confused, wondering who will do it, wondering if I'm moving on..... Despite knowing that this is a good thing, I cried and then did some more crying. Yes, I'm proud for finding the strength to do it, yet so sad to close him off. Man do I love him and miss him. While a small step for many here, declining H took EVERYTHING I had. Some of me feels like I'm giving up. I will look for more strength for the next outreach.
My response/decline to H today came from a few places - Catman's 'saloon door' comment, DnJ noting that H needs to feel my loss, DnJ's comment to give H enough time and space until he chokes on it....and the DB thought that if I stop chasing, perhaps H will do some chasing. While there were many drivers for my comment, it certainly felt wrong and it hurt. Tears were a part of that message while I told myself to feel good about doing the 'right thing'. And just like that, I set a boundary and did a 180. still so counterintuitive. sigh, again. Thank you all for helping this stubborn girl find a way!!
In case my update isn't confusing enough, I feel compelled to tell you that something continues to draw me to H and our M. I'm assured that I haven't given up hope. But, I am tired.
Just remember, in a catholic perspective, we are called by God to help others and to forgive, if repentance and remorse are not shown we have to leave it up to God. We are not able to fix a person who is broken so deeply. Remember like a stern parent who says no and instills discipline and consequences, the child becomes better for it when they eventually realize. A parent who caters to a childs every feeling and whim does not learn any valuable lessons, they do not learn gratitude and humility, they do not learn that their desires and wishes don't supercede the feelings of others who stand between their wants. You are doing the right thing as hard as it may seem, remember your H is very much like a child who is testing boundaries and pushing the limits. Show him how valuable you are by not enabling his bad behaviour, you are standing up to his indecisiveness by sticking to your values and morals. When he looks at you he will see someone who is strong and has perseverance, rather than someone whom he can manipulate and someone who needs him
He's not even able to look after his own needs let alone anyone else's.
I just want to see it is really really hard to do the opposite of what your heart desires, but following your heart will prolong and extend the pain, tough love is what he needs, not cruelty or disrespect, but the love similar to a disciplined parent. You will go through a tide of emotions, sometimes even all in the same day. Focus as hard as you can on whatever physical activity you can or even meditation, a physically healthy body = healthy mind and builds strength to endure the crap storm of all this. Your H is still really confused and he's still coping with substances and external things to fill the void, this isn't a sign of improvement or working on himself. The use of edibles and such will alter his mood and likely make him go back and forth mentally, dont let this affect you
Stay calm and remain cordial, keep your emotions to yourself away from him. He will feel like you are moving on witjout him and hell begin seeing a sense of loss. Be the better person, be the rock and the shining light in a time of thunderstorms. This will serve you well At the end of the day, make him want you by being your best self and if he doesnt want to fix things you will feel better about yourself, your self confidence will exude when interacting with others and they will take notice.
Catman, you've gone from needing help a few months back to now providing sound advice and encouragement. I'm learning to turn a corner and oddly, see what you point out after you say it.
I picked up a few books and have been reading. Detachment info was the most enlightening so far. Divorce Remedy is an easy read...taking notes for a later date bc right now I'm detaching. NC.
Tide of emotions, sometimes even all in the same day - yup Childish / teenager behavior / coping with substances and externa things to fill void - yup Rock and the shining light in a time of thunderstorm - yup
As DnJ once said, lighthouses don't chase the ship....or was it look for the ship. Anyway, you get me.
I'm DBing. It's getting easier. Then, I turn around and there's a text from H. The last couple times H texted me (today being the 2nd of 2), H sent a separate text to kids within a minute. The texts are of the same flavor each time. My guess is H is missing us while at work and reaches out for info that keeps H in touch. But I don't know that I have it right.
Text to me: How are you feeling? Back to yourself? Did you get results post surgery? Text to kids: How are you? Any plans for the weekend?
H has not apologized for anything so I don't know that H has 'awakened' and isn't necessarily making an effort to commit.
H has remained very interested in my health and enjoys coming to the family home. Not sure I should continue 'letting' him be so comfortable. My thought is to continue declining home visits for repairs but provide updates on health. Thoughts?
Vets told me I'd know if H was trying. I don't know how I'd know that H is trying, but doesn't know how to take the first step versus touch-n-go'ing to go back to replay. In Jan, H said that he had second thoughts about D which is why H hasn't initiated the process. In Feb, H wanted to try but never made much of an effort. H came for a couple dinners after work and we held a few conversations outside of Dr appts. Not much of a concerted effort to consider it an 'awakening' or is it one of several? Each time, I've treated H with lots of respect and remained positive through visit with some built in humor. Basically, a typical dinner before DB...except that H then hugged it out and left to his house. Yes, I know, a big difference but some effort and requesting the dinner and showing up.
I don't want to push H nor stir the pot unless he's in withdrawal - that's what I've learned. Yet, I can't help but wonder if H is trying and looking for me to nudge him towards 'us'. Believe me, if these are positive signs that he's making progress but I need to stay the course with short responses, I will do just that. Looking for input from my DB family.
Is this a good response?: Yes, I'm nearly back to myself. While you're unable to be an appropriate husband, I can only love you from a distance. When you choose to be an appropriate husband, we could discuss what to do to repair our marriage. Until then, I hope that time and space continues to help you with your happiness.
I should also point out that H and I pray in the car on our way to appts. Several times from Jan to Apr, H asked God to help us figure ourselves out. One of those times, H seemed to have more directly asked for help and when I questioned him because I didn't catch what he said, H got defensive and for the next couple appts, H declined to pray with me. When H declined, I let him know that it isn't God's fault that H is going through this and that God is the only person who can help him. He can't do it alone. He listened but don't know what he thought of it. H did return to praying with me in May (once) before visits ended.
Also, I suspect that H's replay activities (medications if you will) have continued. I guess I don't exactly know as H isn't home and I've no engaged in conversation (DBing).
Yet, I can't help but wonder if H is trying and looking for me to nudge him towards 'us'.
It is better if he is pursuing you. He needs to feel like he has lost you.
Originally Posted by MamaG
Is this a good response?: Yes, I'm nearly back to myself. While you're unable to be an appropriate husband, I can only love you from a distance. When you choose to be an appropriate husband, we could discuss what to do to repair our marriage. Until then, I hope that time and space continues to help you with your happiness.
better:
Yes.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Yep, lighthouses don’t go running around the island looking for ships for save. They just stand strong and shine their light.
Originally Posted by MamaG
Believe me, if these are positive signs that he's making progress but I need to stay the course with short responses, I will do just that.
H’s progress is slow and in a positive direction. Stay the course. Remain kind and cordial. And dig for patience!
Originally Posted by MamaG
I don't want to push H nor stir the pot unless he's in withdrawal - that's what I've learned.
Pressure is a huge thing for these troubled souls. Definitely don’t want to push.
In my opinion, that goes double during withdrawal. The LBS needs to back off even more during that time. The MLCer will cease their running behaviours, withdrawal inward, shrink from the world and everybody while they figure out and face their demons and what they’ve done. It’s one of the more critical phases for them. Some crisis folks regress back to running for a bit, some go back and forth a few times, yet with good fortune they will keep progressing forward and work their way through it and enter the stage(s) of acceptance.
Even then, acceptance - little to no pressure from you. An awakened MLCer will have plenty of pressure from themselves. Kind, cordial, open, honest, respectful communication is needed. There will be lots of things to repair. Lots to build anew.
The best stirring of the pot, or shaking the boggle cube to get the MLCer some new letters, comes from focusing on you. A genuine 180, for you. If it stirs up H, fine. Or not fine. Whatever. That’s the point. It’s for you! Do it for you! Let the chips fall where they will. If that stirs or not, matters not.
Originally Posted by MamaG
Vets told me I'd know if H was trying. I don't know how I'd know that H is trying, but doesn't know how to take the first step versus touch-n-go'ing to go back to replay.
A couple of things from my perspective.
Do or do not, there is no try. Don’t worry or pay attention to H trying or not. It’s when H is doing, not H trying, that you’ll know he is coming around.
Stop making excuses for him. H is a grown man. He knew enough how to drop the bomb and move out. He can figure out how to take his necessary steps back. And by the way, he needs to figure that out. It’s good for him to struggle his way through it.
Remember, you don’t place boulders on H’s path, yet you don’t pave it in gold either. It’s his journey. He is going to walk it at his speed.
Originally Posted by MamaG
H has remained very interested in my health and enjoys coming to the family home. Not sure I should continue 'letting' him be so comfortable. My thought is to continue declining home visits for repairs but provide updates on health. Thoughts?
Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.
Continue your path. Continue to maintain and look after your house and finances sans H. I’d likely keep replying to H while utilizing the 24-48 hour. Communication between you and he is a good thing. Be non-confrontational, nonjudgemental, kind, and cordial. Brevity is your ally whilst conversing with H.
H is running on emotions. He cannot handle anyone else’s. He wants, is driven to find time and space. Yet, still circles back every now and then. It’s wildly difficult to understand how/why they would do such a thing. Remember, they ain’t operating based on rational logical thought. H simply feels like it. So he reaches out. And other times he doesn’t.
Originally Posted by MamaG
Is this a good response?: Yes, I'm nearly back to myself. While you're unable to be an appropriate husband, I can only love you from a distance. When you choose to be an appropriate husband, we could discuss what to do to repair our marriage. Until then, I hope that time and space continues to help you with your happiness.
I agree with R2C. Short and simple is better.
MLCer have the attention span of a gnat. They really do. Also, I’d cut out the bit on H being an inappropriate husband. It will just put his back against the wall, making him defensive.
I get it. And you are correct. Yet: A LBS drinks a lot of STFU smoothies! (Thanks Mach1 )
Ask yourself, does/would your proposed reply bring you closer or further from your goal?
Like I said, I understand. It’s totally unfair and inequitable. The LBS has the lion’s share here. Be kind. Be cordial. Be non combative, nonjudgemental, non-confrontational, etc. Such is the path.
All while not being a pushover or doormat. Easy. Right. lol.
Originally Posted by MamaG
Text to me: How are you feeling? Back to yourself? Did you get results post surgery?
H, I’m doing fine. Back to 100%.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
So very glad I asked before responding - that 24 to 48 hours is needed on so many fronts. Feedback is super helpful. Being the middle of this makes it difficult to see forest/trees. And, I must say, after stepping away from my response and reading it hours later, it is quite bold and cold. Would definitely not be bringing me closer to my goal. THANK YOU for saving me! It's exhausting but I will dig for more patience. LOVE the comment of 'STFU smoothies' - I laughed out loud!
On the timing front, H generally texts early morning (before work shift) or at lunch. Both times of day are when H isn't 'medicating'. "Medicine" has been a night time thing. Any insight on time of day to respond with brevity - while medicating or sober?
I really am recovering nicely and back on my feet - drove for the first time today to GAL! Being able to get up and go more will allow me to GAL more and get out of my head. It's been a rough couple weeks.
R2C: do you think H is pursuing me (on a small scale!) with his texts of 'care' or is H a clingy boomerang?
DnJ: "The MLCer will cease their running behaviours, withdrawal inward, shrink from the world and everybody while they figure out and face their demons and what they’ve done. It’s one of the more critical phases for them. Some crisis folks regress back to running for a bit, some go back and forth a few times, yet with good fortune they will keep progressing forward and work their way through it and enter the stage(s) of acceptance." H has been able to increase the amount of time he spends with me before running, but H definitely runs every time. H has had days of less running and then days of more running. I've seen that - this is helpful insight. I wonder if H is moving towards end of replay - again, hard to know since we don't spend much time together. I'm at peace with this. Just makes it hard to know how deep in depression he's in. I digress. Focus on me.
Good clarification - when H is doing (not trying). I certainly do make excuses for him. Thanks for the call out.
I looked at the thread explaining how to get those boxes to quote others and can't seem to get it. Can someone provide me with step-by-step instructions?
I'll take the third option - neither, please!