Grief and Gratitude, Grok

[Ready2Change]

Getting A Life – Just do it.......g

What a great post. If any of the others who are currently going through this, that is how to DB.

I DID need to GAL...Hmmmm... the advice is just get OUT! Away from WW. Preferably something you don't normally do and social. It will lead to things … and so it has!...I went over to the table where the small group was gathered and introduced myself......I've been back most weeks since as this group has adopted me.

PS: Glad you found some of Starsky's post. Lots of wisdom.

[grok]

Getting A Life – Just do it.......g

What a great post. If any of the others who are currently going through this, that is how to DB.

Thanks for the validation. Also, well, support of the type you can get here, since it is almost non-existent in person.

Lest anyone reading along think this just happened easy in sequence, let me expand a little. I like people and can converse easy, but am always feeling awkward socially. When the bomb dropped I was already a sort of depressed and withdrawn into my own little world. I WASN'T present with W and kids like I needed to be as H and Father. The bomb just fragmented me as I was not in a good place to start with.

Within a month or so I did start taking my bike out alone on the trails for exercise and get out time. Then started walking trails occasionally with two other dads I had been barely acquainted with. Little steps. It took from end of March to September to recover myself enough to head out to that local brewery. I was finally comfortable enough bring that pie for all to share. Even then I would have thoughts of "will they like it? or think I'm strange?"

PS: Glad you found some of Starsky's post. Lots of wisdom.

If you ever wonder about how the work on this forum affects peoples lives, I'm here to tell it helped me immensely. I found these bits of wisdom because I started with the stickies and worked my way back. The threads of quotes and Sandi2's were especially valuable. Every time I found one that resonated, I would track it back to the source and read through. All those 2X4s to other people helped ME! Thank you.

Easter Blessings to you all.

g

[grok]

Doing things for ME. Or where have my wants gone?

I stopped by IKEA last week to try and find some bits and pieces and for some inexpensive lamps for my home. I picked out a TOKABO Table for D18 (mushroom look too cute with her style), a SOLBO Table lamp for D17 (she loves owls), and a TVARFOT Table lamp for S12 (matching his bedside). Then for me I grabbed a BARLAST Table lamp at 1/4 the price of theirs (cheapest of the cheap), after all, it will work and I sacrifice for them right?

Hmmm. I thought about it. No. That actually wasn’t what I wanted at all. I had just dismissed myself and my wants. I wanted the cool steampunk looking bedside lamp that could dim to an orange flame like glow. The TARNABY Table lamp. So I got both. The TARNABY looks great at my bedside and dimming it way down before bed makes me feel comfortable. I am happier. I have been putting ME aside for a very long time. This may be small, but recognizing my own wants/needs and articulating or doing something about it … has been missing.


Disconnects - journaled/vented here to have them NOT stick in my mind.
in the last few weeks (keep in mind she is smart and has commanded military units).

W: Are we doing the final mediation reschedule with or without attorneys?

She is driving this train. Why is she asking me to control the process?


W: Taking D18 to female motorcycle event on her birthday, if that’s okay. It’s a three hour drive to and from. All comers welcome.

Why are you asking my permission? She is her own adult now and makes her own decisions, though she lives with me and D17 and S12.


W: Did you cancel insurance on my van? ‘Cause that would make sense.

G: No.

I didn’t say - because dummy, I’m still liable as we are married and I want a vehicle for which I am paying the loan on to be protected.


W: Also, I’m not on your workplace health insurance anymore right?

G: No, you are still on the family coverage.

I didn’t say - because dummy, we currently MARRIED and don’t have a settlement and I’d be liable in any court anyway. You’d have no other protection right now. Don’t you know how any of this works?


W via text message: Kids, sorry I couldn't come by to see you today. I had to do laundry and chores. And I have class tonight. I'll be there tomorrow to give hugs.

Laundry and dishes for one person take the entire day?


Last night -
W: Goodnight kids, this is a short goodnight. I HAVE to go get my schoolwork done so I can spend more time with you tomorrow while your dad is away on business for a couple days.

The school work is for an optional 2nd Masters degree in a non-income producing subject. I checked the house cameras today to keep tabs on D17 and S12 while I am gone. (Cameras - With zero expectations of W, I wanted to be able to remotely check on kids who are without adults present a lot now.) She spent ~ 1 hr there today in short touch and go visits until just before bedtime tonight.

g

[grok]

As to my WW's EA at least, addiction, withdrawal or not, what follows, and feels. Though it doen't change what I needs/must do.

Today's writing was triggered by three song lyrics that fit my thoughts because again, sometimes the right words to describe something are not easy to come by. The first song is about heroin addiction but the parallels struck me ... the title about where many of us were in our R and M when this kicks off, verse 1 about what our spouse was feeling, and then where we are going and feeling.

Running to stand still

[Verse 1]
And so she woke up
Woke up from where she was lyin' still
Said I gotta do something
About where we're goin'
Step on a steam train
Step out of the drivin' rain, maybe
Run from the darkness in the night

[Verse 2]
Sweet the sin
Bitter the taste in my mouth
I see seven towers
But I only see one way out
You gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking
Scream without raising your voice
You know I took the poison from the poison stream
Then I floated out of here

Affairs are like addiction...PEAs... fantasy...

We all live in our own realities, our own narratives, our own imaginations.

There are things that help keep those realities in check. A fixed external belief system that doesn't sway in the breeze of emotions. A good mix of friends that aren't afraid to call us on our bs. Self reflection and humility to know better than to trust ourselves too much.

I think WWs have an easy time getting hooked on fantasy. A fantasy is like a fire. One person starts the spark. Then the more people go along with it, the more fuel is on the fire. And when a WAW rewrites history or blames LBH, it's not hard to get support.

...

It's an addiction, and it's one of the toughest kinds because it isn't as tangible. It's not like heroin where it's pretty clear that if there is usage there's a problem. It's more like overeating, where it's blurry. We have to eat, but when is it an issue? So too with fantasy, there are blurry lines that make it easy for people to rationalize away. Of course, once they are shacking up with other people and walking out on their families it's a little more noticeable, but even then there is always a spin. "He's not the OM breaking up a marriage...I was being abused, my self was being destroyed, LBH was killing me, I was dying inside, OM was the support I needed to escape that trauma and preserve myself..." Oh, I didn't realize! You poor thing. Let me help you move your things into OM's apartment!

Weird world we live in, isn't it?

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2727454#Post2727454

And so I am here. Feeling all the things you all understand. I feel like

As sandi2 said, past beliefs of the WW are no guide for her current behavior.

I'm upset that my W mentioned S when it was a done deal. I would have taken an ultimatum, a break, a deadline � anything telling me that she had reached her breaking point. She wrote me this email about feeling miserable, but it was in the heat of an argument and she had her share of blame in it, so I took her messages as part of this discussion. I realize now that I was blind, that it was more important than that. What would have opened my eyes, and did, was the S word. She never told me until her decision was made, in a haste.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551452#Post2551452

as I had no idea of the amount of unhappiness that was under the surface. My W said to me this year -
"I would go into the other room and cry. I never told you."
"I never stomped my foot or thew a fit"
"your heart was in the right place but you were too nice and logical, so I stopped trying to tell you"
"my friends agreed with me about you but weren't sure about OM"
"how long was I supposed to wait?"

I feel deceived. And for W to choose an EA and D as the solution? I feel like vows and commitment were supposed to take us over these difficulties.

The reason vows and commitment are so important to me is that they provide standards when our own standards might be suspect.

Kind of like laws, religious beliefs...they keep us in check and tell us the right way to behave when we feel like being destructive or selfish. We do what we believe is right as much of the time as we can.

Wedding vows are the same. "for worse, in sickness". All in the vows as FULL DISCLOSURE that things will be difficult. But that we are committing to remain true through that.

If the vows are just words then it becomes a matter of when we feel like leaving. To me that's not a marriage. That's a ride in the sunshine until it inevitably starts to rain.

I maintain that anyone that adds a "but" to the statement "I don't believe in divorce..." truly DOES believe in divorce. I do not.

The sad part and why this touched a nerve with me is that everyone is willing to make those vows, and there isn't a good way to tell who means them and who doesn't. It's unfair to those that mean them. It's like becoming friends with someone and saying "I promise I won't ever physically harm you if I'm angry" and them agreeing. But then they get angry and punch you in the face, and when you say "we agreed not to do that" they say "well, I didn't know I'd get THIS angry, if I'm this angry then I can hit you".

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551432#Post2551432

But now? Once a WW is there, it will be a long process out of it. No matter what the conclusion. Mine is steady on pressing through D.

Overall I think that if you look at the stages of grief that those need to be gone through by all parties.

So the one having the affair will need to grieve the loss of the affair partner, and if they then decide to try to reconcile they must grieve the loss of the marriage before they can reconcile.

So you have Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Withdrawal, Acceptance.

Neither partner can not avoid this, nor can you press any buttons, or have any magic fixes.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551635#Post2551635

It seems she believes her feelings leave her no choice. Feelings and minimizing emotional pain seem to drive her behavior. Early on I asked her, "Would you have chosen this if not for OM?" She screwed up her face and slowly replied, "No, I thought I would just have to bear it and suffer [not being paid attention to]."

Why would you have to bear it? If it was important then STOMP YOUR FEET, or just all the looking into things that I have done this year. After knowing to look for them, I have found dozens of ways she could have reached me. And found many anti-patterns of ours in "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" books.

And the real kicker for me? My Ds were not nearly as surprised as me. That has been crushing. How did I not see? Though they did not see the other side where she offered me private praise leading me to think we were OK at least.

[Verse 1: Braille]
When it's a quarter past midnight
And the grey skies fade to black
The waves splash and set me off track
So my vessel might crash or collapse
When I'm attacked
And start wrestling in my head with these bad
Memories from my past
I'm aware of my guilt, overwhelmed
……
Yeah, no matter the weather I face, Lord you never forsake
My fragile life is safe under your sovereign grace

[Verse 2: Odd Thomas]
At some point every human looks right in the eyes of agony
And through the tragedy asks himself how can this happen to me?
You might be the type with enough insight to hold
On for your dear life but slip because your grip is not as
Tight as you might like
You ain't immune to it, naw, and if
You true to yourself then you ain't new to it
……
All these sinking ships around me, He surrounds me and he
Anchors me with his grace abounding

[Hook: Josh Garrels]
Anchor of my soul, You sustain, You sustain
When I'm in the storm, You remain, You remain

I guess I’m feeling melancholy again. Grief. Though I’m excited and a bit scared as I sit here in the motor vehicles office finishing this post … D17 and I are getting her learner driver permit. Gratitude.

(It is the oddest feeling to see my WW post on social media similar themes when she is the one with an EA and choosing D)

- Staying away from Obliteration while drinking "Liquid Death" flavored water. Teleworking and evaluating 35 technology proposals. -

[Chorus]
Ashes circle the drain
And now it’s all that’s left
All that’s left of me
Sink my teeth in the pain
Watching the world go numb
And I’m just one step
From obliteration

g

[grok]

Friday night D17 and W had a blowup. Again. D17 is the most morally legalistic, often rigidly fragile, and most needy for mom’s attention. She had a gymnastics meet Saturday and has been a bit on edge about it because of an injured foot. She could only compete in 2 of 4 events. She is also one to freak out for a while when things don’t go right in the lead up but has grace under pressure during.

W has always done up her hair for meets and often the night before. W came over late, ~9:30p at D17’s request . A few minutes later while W was talking to S12, D17 shrieked in upset and W got fearful, then angry when she found out it was just about hair tangles. Words were said and W went out the door in high emotion saying “I can’t do this anymore, I can’t do this anymore.”

Ten minutes later she came back in to talk with D17. More words were said. I hear D17 in shaky tears say “I need space, let me be, I can’t talk about this right now, let me be, leave me alone right now” and she locks herself in the bathroom. W comes downstairs, where I am attempting to be the calm in the storm with S12, and just stares in emotion and anger at me. I remained calm and silent, giving her full attention, and waiting for her to say something. After a minute W just stomped out the door. I pray I did this right. I have gone very dim since last September.

I went over to where D17 was and said through the door, “I’m here when you want. I’m here if you need hugs.”
D17, “Is mom gone?”
G, “I don’t know D17. She went out the door.”
D17 came out for a hug and explained about her hair and her concern and emotions dealing with it. D17, “Daddy, can you do my hair? I just can’t reach part of it”.
G, “I can, though I’m not that experienced at it like your mom.”
D17, “Well, maybe my sister D18 can do it.”
I carefully said nothing about W, just tried to be the rock D17 could count on if she wanted my help or an emotional safe place. I’m not coming between W and D now.

D18 arrived home at this point, “I talked to mom on the way in. She is out in her car crying and beating herself up about this.”
D17, “Um, is she coming in? Can you do my hair instead?”
D18, “I don’t know, and yes I can do your hair if you want me to.”
D17, “I don’t know. I don’t know. What does mom want to do?“
D18, “Just tell me if you want me to do it or not.”
D17, “I don’t KNOW! Did mommy say anything?”
D18 Clearly does not want to be a go between. D17 Clearly doesn’t want to offend mom but doesn’t want to deal with turmoil.

I take the big dog out for evening walk while they discuss, as is was late and well past time. W is sitting in her vehicle staring at her phone. I walk the usual 1 mile and when I get back W is in the house. Just inside the door, D17 meets me saying shhhhhhh and motions me two walk the other two dogs. I hear D18 and W in the kitchen. I hear W sobbing, “ … 8 to 10 YEARS! 8 to 10 YEARS!” D18, “Mom, you haven’t let it go. You have a whole life to live.” I wonder how much of what W is saying is the WW script and how much is a real critique. It is hard to tell. She has legitimate complaints about things I just did not understand. Though never of the heart or intention.

I take the other two dogs out for 1 mile again. On my way back, I see W walking alone down the street. I stop and let the dogs greet her. W, “I’m sorry I was rude/out of line before.” G gently accepting, “OK.” W nods and continues on her walk alone. There appear to be tears.

When I get back D17’s hair was done. I get all three kids to head to their night time routines. I touch base with each and say goodnight to each when in bed… 2 hours later than normal. When I check outside before going to bed myself, W’s car is gone.

My heart hurts. I sleep poorly.

g

[Catman19]

Man I don't know how you do it with kids. You are being the rock for your kids In a time or turmoil. It seems much like others in the situation that the kids end up with a better understanding or the situation and more maturity than the WW. To me it seems she's lashing out and not knowing how to deal with her situation. Emotions leading behaviour. Tbh I somehow think that hormonal changes have a lot to do with this behaviour and they just don't know how to manage or deal with it. Keep being the rock for your daughters and show them the demeanor they will appreciate, not that it feels like you guys are teaming up on ww, you are showing her stability and balance when she is in a state of perpetual turmoil.

[DnJ]

Hello g

You did well. Good job remaining calm; there were enough emotions running high with W and D17. Also good to see you not offering solutions or trying to fix things.

Let W have lots of space.

D17, and the other kids, will have anger and frustration towards mom. However, for a while, they will not be able to risk loosing Mom and therefore will not say too much to her. Kids unfairly lash out at the stable parent, until they get a better handle on themselves and their situation. It’s unfair and perfectly normal.

Be there for them, just like you did. Offering to help with her hair was good. “I will do my best, just tell me what to do, as I don’t have such long beautiful hair I’ve never done this before”. Keeping Mom’s behaviour/actions out of conversation and/or any comparing, is a good and calming tacit.

You are a living example for your children. The strong and stable parent.

Well done Dad.

D

[grok]

Thanks catman and D, I'll have further thoughts later. In the mean time I wrote this morning while making breakfast for the kids, after walking big dog at dawn . D17 had fed the baby bird, a green cheek conure whose feathers are only half grown in, and gone back to sleep.
---
I woke up at 6a Saturday morning to get D17 up for her gymnastics meet. I help with feeding her baby bird and then take big dog out for his morning 1 mile walk. W arrived 7a to pick up D17. I say hello to W and goodby to D17. It is one of her last meets this year.

D17, “Daddy, you can come see me if you want to. Just if you want to though. You don’t have to.”

I haven’t been to many. Mostly just W takes her because their cost structure is expensive for any family or visitors. This one was $15 to park each car and $20 per guest or family besides the gymnast. I ponder how important it is to D17 to see me there. I’m often times too literal. Does she really mean it’s not that important and optional? Or is this child code for I really wish you would be there to show your support? I decide I’ll go and see her, though I don’t tell anyone but D18 to make it a surprise. Feels more fun that way.

I quickly get ready and drive the 40 minutes to the meet. I spot W across the Arena sitting alone, scrolling on her phone, with no one nearby, her bag in the seat next to her, though I’m pretty sure she knows some of the other gym moms. I make my way over and sit next to her bag. W, “OH, hello. D17 is over there. You can always tell because she has the biggest hair bun!” She does have waist length hair. We watch in mostly silence with some small talk about the gymnastics. I pull out my laptop and work on some work expense claims I had not been able to get to during the week. I make her chuckle and roll her eyes when I explain how badly the corporate claims system is designed. i.e. just as bad some of the government systems we have both experienced in the past.

D17 forfeits two events gracefully because of her injured ankle. The other two she does well at. She waves happily at us.
W, “G, would you like to take D17 out for lunch after? Instead of me?”
G, “sure, I’d be happy to”
I’m not sure of meanings here. I decide I won’t try to understand. I’ll just be happy with D17’s company.
…. a little while later …
W, “You know I didn’t mean to imply anything by that. Like you don’t do things with her. Just your and her schedules often don’t match up. Just wanted to offer the opportunity. I know you and S12 went biking.”
G, “Its OK. I didn’t take it as anything.”

I wonder if W understands we do spend lots of time together as all three live with me. We go do things together in various mixes of Dad and kids from grocery shopping, to bike rides, to blueberry picking, to going to the beach. Though, making space for individual child time is harder as I am working full time and keeping up with the household alone.

When W does come over to spend most weekday daytimes in the house with them she does their schooling and brings food sometimes (gas station takeout, quick bake pizza, or treats usually). W also has been doing most of the medical appointments and D17’s daytime transportation.

D17 and I pick up food to eat on the way home. She navigates the app on my phone to order and picks our lunch. After eating she falls asleep as the car is warm and cozy.

Afterword - We stopped to get plumbing supplies for a leaking toilet I’m fixing and then also picked out three tomato plants for D17’s garden.

After Afterword - W stops in an hour after we get back and makes S12 some instant ramen noodles with an egg on the bottom. She doesn't usually come over on weekends except to say goodnight. After she leaves, S12 says the noodles and egg didn't turn out like he expected and asks if he can throw them out. I say sure, sometimes the experiment doesn't work out like we want.

g

[Sunflyer]

Not much I can add, other than that my situation is practically a mirror of yours. I guess it's practically a mirror of a lot of other people's on this site as well.

Screenshotted that Zues126 quote on marriage vows. It expresses my views better than anything else I've read.

[grok]

DnJ,

D17, and the other kids, will have anger and frustration towards mom. However, for a while, they will not be able to risk loosing Mom and therefore will not say too much to her. Kids unfairly lash out at the stable parent, until they get a better handle on themselves and their situation. It’s unfair and perfectly normal.

I"ve been thinking about this and I'm slowly connecting the D18 and D17 behaviors with these thoughts. S12 just doesn't know enough about the "why" and W's justifications. D18 knows by far the most. After initially announcing things to Ds, W stopped talking to Ds about anything related about six months in.

Some time back I talked to D18 and told her a little bit about W's relationship with OM as he is one of the bosses at her work. She is old enough to be on her own if she wished, car and license, has a full time job, and so was able to risk. She gave W a talking to on how "toxic" to everyone her EA with OM was. D18, I'm proud of her (Gratitude)-
"Dad, we know more than you think."
"She stopped telling us anything because she knows what I think"
After one of the blowups, "Dad, just give D17 hugs and hold her. I'll help her deal with mom. After all, mom taught me how to read people and deal with their emotional manipulation"

With all the relationship books I've been reading and two Ds, I've been attempting how to think and act when female emotions are slinging about from them (lashing out). Absorb, accept, and let it pass through. Don't take it as logical serious. Don't solve it. It is the "right now" feelings. Validate. Be safe to express it to. If it is about W (Grief), stick to "I know, I understand, and that is hard or sad or difficult."
*****
Gratitude for today's encouragement popping up in my playlist. I found this band last fall, well outside my normal listening habits. Then found they had a concert in town, so I took the kids to go see at a local venue. GAL and something I hadn't done in 15 years.

Connecting thoughts often expressed here - You will be OK and Live in the Light

Oh it's gonna be ok, with a little of faith
Oh it's gonna be ok, with a little bit of fate
Oh it's gonna be ok, with a little bit of grace
Oh it's gonna be ok, with a little bit of praise

Now your living, in the music
Now your laughing, with a new grin
You're so alive, alive (Running under rainbows)
Now your singing, what the truth is
Now your dancing, looking foolish
You found the light, the light

g