Grief and Gratitude, Grok

[grok]

D, Thanks for the reminders and hard earned knowledge
 

Asking W about her feelings is not that helpful. Sure, it gives you a window into her current mindset. For that moment in time. And perhaps it assuages some doubts as it allows you to see and understand her path a bit.
 
However, she answered like one would suspect she would. And that, reinforces her position within herself. She is already surrounding herself with people who reinforce and encourage her viewpoint, don’t add yourself to that entourage.
 
Yes, validate her feelings if/when those times come up and it is appropriate. That’s validating her feelings not the situation.

 
All true.  Expanding the context, this was a paraphrase.  One evening shortly after she found her own place she had come over to say goodnight to the kids.  She came out of the common restroom after extra long and said "G, can we talk?  I was in there curled on the floor with FEELINGS and I need to talk"  "OK W, come with me" and I took us outside and closed the door to be apart from the children.  I attempted to just listen and validate feelings while using empathy techniques (mirroring and emotion labeling) from "Never Split the Difference".  She talked for about an hour. 
 
I considered whether this was providing emotional support when I should be dropping it  OR  a 180 from bad habits acquired of only listening while I do other things at the same time.  When we first met she was in much distress and under stress.  I was focused just listening to her.  A decade and more later, I ended up gaming, looking a phone, etc... while listening to her.  This undoubtedly left feelings of "am I not important to you?"  I didn't recognize it at the time because, well, I could repeat back all she said right?  Just the facts right?  Wrong! Classic Mars v Venus.
 
An aside:  Talking this much is not unusual in our history.  One of our inside jokes from almost the beginning was that she has 40,000 words a day to get out.  She talks, I listen. Of course I cannot sustain that much female talking needs all on my own so I encouraged her ladies nights, etc...
 
 

Usually there is a window when the leaving spouse is more generous in negotiating. A time when their emotions are running high and they are more “happy”. This reverts or disappears as more time passes. Just something to consider while thinking over the business side of your journey.

 
Thank you and good advice.  Early on I offered limited amount and duration alimony to transition her.  Months later W said "I don't want ANY support from you."  Now in the end at mediation 3? W said "If I could JUST leave I would."  I see the trajectory you are referring to.
 
 

Demonizing W will alter you. It also will affect your kids. Your kids are half W. Half their genetic make up comes from their Mom. They know this. Any demonizing or such will be reflected / absorbed by them. Believe me, they already have many question of if they are destine for a similar fate as Mom.

 
This I think I don't do and would actually find hard to do.  To me it is a crushing tragedy, not an evil demon.  And from the beginning is not who I want to be.  I have caught myself complaining about this or that and stop myself short.  I can do something about it with W or decide it is something I accept.  Visualizing the big red STOP sign.
 
I believe W wonders if she is destined for the same fate as her Mom.  I have pulled together many signs from W to make a 90% fit to a kind of MLC.  Or as I think better phrased from another site, it is a "Crisis of Purpose."    I learned her mom had an affair of some kind early on in their marriage.  Her dad has apparently never let her forget it.  They are still together.  If you pay attention you can see they snipe at each other a lot.  A bunch of behind the scenes unhappiness.  I received "G, I don't want to be in my 70s and like them."  To complicate that even more, she had been her mom's outlet and counselor since she was 13!  When I met W she was co-dependent with her mother.  Her mother would use indirect emotional blackmail.  One of a number of reasons it took me four years to marry her.  Understand there were just as many of my own issues I had to work through before I could say “I Do.” I thought we had substantially resolved these slumbering dragons.
 

It’s perfectly ok, and needed, to discuss the situation with the kids. Answer their questions openly and honestly - age appropriate of course. And some topics can be, are, none of their business. Which is still an answer.

I have discussed briefly with each child. D18 is the emotional one who bursts into tears with arguments. She knows the most works with OM. She has told off her mom about him. i.e. that relationship is toxic, toxic, toxic to all. She is spreading her wings and pushing away while still wanting mom’s love and attention. She also told me I was “kinda checked out for a few years” and she is right. D17 is the little lawyer who gets angry. I believe W feared her reaction the most. She knows some. D17 put crosses all over the house when first told. She has turned out to also be the most needy for mom’s attention and time. This is OK. Of course she wants mom’s love and attention when under stress. S12 is the sensitive boy who internalizes stress. “Dad, stop talking about it. Why would you talk about things that hurt. “ He often comes over after lights out to complain about various things that hurt.

The removing of appliances and supplies is more troubling in my opinion. She moved out, without a signed legally binding separation agreement, let her furnish her new digs (more or less). Not being mean here, rather you and the kids need stuff.

In truth, W has been incredibly slow at taking things from the home. Only a few things that are explicitly hers and asked a few times for parts we would unlikely to use in the next years. At one point W even stated she would like to keep the her wedding ring, wooden chest she bought in Korea, her bicycle, etc… “If it is OK with you.” I was dumbfounded. W included the wedding ring in the list she is asking me about? She quipped to the mediator that it was expensive to outfit a new place. I said nothing. Where does this seem to come from? Well, two threads of thought -

She was clear at the beginning that she is the offender and I am the “Injured Party.” Her words. She has helped several friends in troubled relationships who left their husbands. I had not really taken it as a red flag at the time. I knew these men at least a little. They were problematic to the point I would not leave my kids at their house if it was only the man and their kids. I did not like them. Now these women are W’s advisors in part. Their terminology creeps in. I have Love that they have been W’s friends and Anger that they advise divorce as a solution. At DB1 I heard “G, I head from Ms. T the form is easy. We could sign the divorce next week I think. I HAVE to burn it all down and start over! You are too hard to get emotional support from”

The second thread is additional signs of MLC. Since sometime spring 2023, W basically began living out of one laundry basket when here. With new clothes as she lost weight. She has hardly touched her clothes and stuff in the closet. She has left and hardly touched anything in the dresser. And hardly other things except for her volumes set of craft supplies. As if W did not like who she was with me and wanted to be someone else. To my GREAT sadness, many hurts attached to me that I did not understand or know about before.

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