Maturin - My Story (2)

[SteveLW]

M, in not sure I'm agreeing with your latest post. Seems contradictory.

"feel compelled to try connecting with my wife so I can "fix" things with some good sex."

Then: "Yesterday I went to AT&T to get a new phone and remove my line from our family plan. We now have two separate accounts: one for me, one for her."

"I was heavily flirting with the young lady working there"

Hmm. I get that you didn't act on the connecting with your wife, but I'm afraid you'll follow through especially since her inhibitions are mostly down from drinking

Also, be careful with the flirting. I'm not a big fan of engaging in that behavior IF your goal is to reconcile. Again it's counter-productive and conflicts with your aim. Plus you'd be angry if she engaged in similar behavior. And also can easily lead to you cheating. Especially since LBSs are often very vulnerable.

[Maturin]

Ok Steve, let me see if I can explain further and then you can slap me straight

"feel compelled to try connecting with my wife so I can "fix" things with some good sex."

I am acknowledging that I want to do this, but that it is not a good idea because it's coming from a place of fear/insecurity rather than wanting to truly connect and give. Had Saturday's conversation never happened I wouldn't be in a rush to have sex with her the way I feel I am now.

Also, be careful with the flirting. I'm not a big fan of engaging in that behavior IF your goal is to reconcile. Again it's counter-productive and conflicts with your aim. Plus you'd be angry if she engaged in similar behavior. And also can easily lead to you cheating. Especially since LBSs are often very vulnerable.

One of my 180s has been to engage as many strangers each day as I can in order to rebuild confidence. And if those strangers happen to be attractive women, I am okay with playful flirting. I know where the lines are and wouldn't cross them.

[SteveLW]

Yes, it is always a bad idea to initiate sex with a WAS. Lots of LBSs have gone that route to their own peril.

Again, I'm not fan of flirting if your goal is reconciliation. There are a lot more productive ways to improve your confidence without engaging in a behavior that a) you wouldn't condone in your WAS or b) that you wouldn't condone in yourself if things were good in your marriage.

Becoming the best version of yourself includes behaving in ways that are full of integrity. Flirting with the AT&T girl isn't that.

Just my two cents ...... That and $2 will buy you a box of popcorn.

[Ready2Change]

On the topic of "I am not attracted to you", pretty easy to change your behavior and words to address this. Just keep doing research and making changes. Us men are visual, where women as turned on more by our words (and behavior).

The other thing is the difference in men and women. For men, sex leads. If the SL is good then the relationship is good to a man. Women are the opposite. The relationship leads. If things are good in the relationship, then the SL is good to a woman. This is why LBH struggle because they are thinking, "if we can fix the SL, the relationship will follow". That will never work. So forget there SL and keep working on you, and be therefore by extension the relationship.

Use this statement as a foundation.

I am a firm believer in understanding the difference between seduction and attraction and shifting between the two as needed.



Building sexual tension is also a very good skill to master.

When you do get to the bedroom activities, she should be pleasantly surprised EVERY TIME, especially the "First time" in a while. I agree that "She comes first" is a good read.

[Maturin]

I'm still re-playing my Saturday conversation with my W over and over. One thing she said that I forgot to mention was that she liked the way things had been lately - I do stuff w the kids and give her alone time and vice versa. This is one of the risks I see to DB'ing: in many ways we are already acting divorced while she still has the advantage of me in her life. How should I think about this? She is having her cake with a supportive husband but doesn't have to do anything as a wife. When I engage in a GAL activity, she does one for herself. It would look like the healthy relationship of two independent people if not for the fact that we spend no alone time together. My sense now is that the DB process produces one of two outcomes: the wayward spouse has space to miss the betrayed and realize what they're missing, or the wayward is given the space they actually want and realize they don't want to be in the MR.

As painful as things have been the affair has been something I can explain away to protect my ego: she claims she snapped, she feels bad about it, doesn't want divorce, hates her AP, etc. The revelation that she is not attracted to me cuts deeper however and can't be avoided. The fact that she has been unsatisfied sexually for so long and that's a component in all of this is painful. It's backed up by years of low/no intimacy so the facts are all there. She has a willing partner in the house but opts for self pleasure. I know not to believe what she says, but when CAN I believe what she says?

My IC certainly sensed my feelings of inadequacy the other day, because he repeatedly told me things like "there is nothing wrong with you" and "you are enough".

R2C, a question for you on my sitch. When is attraction dead and never coming back in your view? In the face of all this I have been upbeat and resilient, showing confidence in myself and that I will be ok. I still engage my W playfully and she totally shuts me down - "leave me alone!" is a typical response. I'll smirk and tease her "uh oh, someone called the fun police" and walk away, but inside I feel rejected.

As for action I've taken this week: I spent a not small amount of money on an online course that teaches techniques to help with PE and scheduled a counseling session w a sex therapist once I've made my way through the course. Took the kids out to dinner last night and had a blast, I have yoga tomorrow morning and dinner with a friend tomorrow night. Also planning some bike rides with the kids this weekend.

I am walking a tightrope. On the one hand the optimist in me wants to continue to DB, fully confident I can change myself and improve the MR as a side effect. On the other hand I realize that I have made many positive changes in the last several months and things have not improved in the MR. MWD says look for small wins, and I suppose you could classify my W opening up to me as a small win. But the realist in me says "She opened up to you about why she isn't happy, and that isn't something you can or should try to fix."

I emailed my L yesterday to schedule a meeting. I would like to know what my options are if my W refuses to engage in any kind of negotiation and I have to do things one-sided. His out of office revealed he's away until January 30th - perhaps a sign from the universe to slow down.

[Rockon]

Maturin. I am inspired by your resolve and courage to be your best and focus on your kids.

I want to encourage you to take this further. Cut out passive aggressiveness with your W.

Take risks and don’t be tied to outcomes and let go of expectations. it is good to have goals.hopes and direction. Hone in on those and clarify and strengthen your motivations

Be strong brother. With you

[SteveLW]

I'm still re-playing my Saturday conversation with my W over and over. One thing she said that I forgot to mention was that she liked the way things had been lately - I do stuff w the kids and give her alone time and vice versa. This is one of the risks I see to DB'ing: in many ways we are already acting divorced while she still has the advantage of me in her life. How should I think about this? She is having her cake with a supportive husband but doesn't have to do anything as a wife. When I engage in a GAL activity, she does one for herself. It would look like the healthy relationship of two independent people if not for the fact that we spend no alone time together. My sense now is that the DB process produces one of two outcomes: the wayward spouse has space to miss the betrayed and realize what they're missing, or the wayward is given the space they actually want and realize they don't want to be in the MR.

Your overthinking this. When someone says to you "I want less of you" , anything short of giving them time and space is trying to force more of you on them. What is the reverse of torture w? Trying to force her to spend time with you? DB works because you focus on you and what your can control, which is you again. Oh you DB to get her to miss you then your are doing it wrong.

Remember.... Believe nothing she says! Even this.

As painful as things have been the affair has been something I can explain away to protect my ego: she claims she snapped, she feels bad about it, doesn't want divorce, hates her AP, etc. The revelation that she is not attracted to me cuts deeper however and can't be avoided. The fact that she has been unsatisfied sexually for so long and that's a component in all of this is painful. It's backed up by years of low/no intimacy so the facts are all there. She has a willing partner in the house but opts for self pleasure. I know not to believe what she says, but when CAN I believe what she says?

You answered your own question!! Remember the story I told you yesterday?? WAWs, and WSs in particular, will say whatever they think is expedient at the moment. They may even believe 100% the second they say it, but that could change the next second!! Please try to forget what she has said and refuse to believe anything she says from this point forward.

On top of that, she's an alcoholic. As a former alcoholic I was constantly lying and being dishonest. Why? Because I knew people were worried about my drinking, so I would hide it, lie about it, and try to make others think I was healthy.

My IC certainly sensed my feelings of inadequacy the other day, because he repeatedly told me things like "there is nothing wrong with you" and "you are enough".

So you'll listen to her, someone that cannot be objective for a variety of reasons, but not an objective third party? You have emotional detachment to work on. You need to get to the point that anything she says, no matter how good or bad it is, has no emotional impact on you. You have a lot of with to go on that.

R2C, a question for you on my sitch. When is attraction dead and never coming back in your view? In the face of all this I have been upbeat and resilient, showing confidence in myself and that I will be ok. I still engage my W playfully and she totally shuts me down - "leave me alone!" is a typical response. I'll smirk and tease her "uh oh, someone called the fun police" and walk away, but inside I feel rejected.

This shows me that your ARE NOT DBing. Where in DB are you supposed to "engage; playfully"?!?

Remember, you treat her like the cashier at the store. You do not initiate engagement. If she does, be upbeat, confident, pleased and fulfilled, but only answer her questions. Do not offer more. And then be the one to the the engagement. "I have something I need to do it or somewhere I need to be." Then walk away. Do not apologize for it, just state the above and go.

As for action I've taken this week: I spent a not small amount of money on an online course that teaches techniques to help with PE and scheduled a counseling session w a sex therapist once I've made my way through the course. Took the kids out to dinner last night and had a blast, I have yoga tomorrow morning and dinner with a friend tomorrow night. Also planning some bike rides with the kids this weekend.

The course and sex therapist alarms me. It sounds like you are still planning on following through with the "good sex with wife" plan. What makes your think that it in any way is a good plan? She won't even be playful with you! Stop doing things for her benefit! Improve for your and your kids and only you and your kids.

I am walking a tightrope. On the one hand the optimist in me wants to continue to DB, fully confident I can change myself and improve the MR as a side effect. On the other hand I realize that I have made many positive changes in the last several months and things have not improved in the MR. MWD says look for small wins, and I suppose you could classify my W opening up to me as a small win. But the realist in me says "She opened up to you about why she isn't happy, and that isn't something you can or should try to fix."

The problem is that you DB to try to improve the MR. Something that is it is out of your control. DB to improve you. If the MR comes along for the ride, fine. But a watched pot never boils. Take your eyes off the pot that is your MR.

I emailed my L yesterday to schedule a meeting. I would like to know what my options are if my W refuses to engage in any kind of negotiation and I have to do things one-sided. His out of office revealed he's away until January 30th - perhaps a sign from the universe to slow down.

Have you picked a drop dead date? You need one! Pick one. "If she's not fully committed back to the marriage by this date, I'm going to have my lawyer file for D."

Take back your power!

[Boat14]

My sense now is that the DB process produces one of two outcomes: the wayward spouse has space to miss the betrayed and realize what they're missing, or the wayward is given the space they actually want and realize they don't want to be in the MR.

This is correct but keep in mind that by the time you got here she had completely checked out of the marriage. When you think of time and space to miss you we are likely talking years.

As painful as things have been the affair has been something I can explain away to protect my ego: she claims she snapped, she feels bad about it, doesn't want divorce, hates her AP, etc.

Why would you want to explain an affair away?

The revelation that she is not attracted to me cuts deeper however and can't be avoided. The fact that she has been unsatisfied sexually for so long and that's a component in all of this is painful. It's backed up by years of low/no intimacy so the facts are all there. She has a willing partner in the house but opts for self pleasure. I know not to believe what she says, but when CAN I believe what she says?

You can believe her actions and undeniably right now she is unattracted to you.

My IC certainly sensed my feelings of inadequacy the other day, because he repeatedly told me things like "there is nothing wrong with you" and "you are enough".

The important thing is do you believe you are enough?

In the face of all this I have been upbeat and resilient, showing confidence in myself and that I will be ok. I still engage my W playfully and she totally shuts me down - "leave me alone!" is a typical response. I'll smirk and tease her "uh oh, someone called the fun police" and walk away, but inside I feel rejected.

You feel rejected because she is rejecting you. Giving someone the time of day who is rejecting you is extremely low value. You come off like a stalker.

As for action I've taken this week: I spent a not small amount of money on an online course that teaches techniques to help with PE and scheduled a counseling session w a sex therapist once I've made my way through the course. Took the kids out to dinner last night and had a blast, I have yoga tomorrow morning and dinner with a friend tomorrow night. Also planning some bike rides with the kids this weekend.

This should be your sole purpose in life. Investing in you for you.

I am walking a tightrope. On the one hand the optimist in me wants to continue to DB, fully confident I can change myself and improve the MR as a side effect. On the other hand I realize that I have made many positive changes in the last several months and things have not improved in the MR. MWD says look for small wins, and I suppose you could classify my W opening up to me as a small win. But the realist in me says "She opened up to you about why she isn't happy, and that isn't something you can or should try to fix."

Who gives a rats behind what and why she is doing?

I emailed my L yesterday to schedule a meeting. I would like to know what my options are if my W refuses to engage in any kind of negotiation and I have to do things one-sided. His out of office revealed he's away until January 30th - perhaps a sign from the universe to slow down.

Perfect! Keep doing you!

[Maturin]

You need to get to the point that anything she says, no matter how good or bad it is, has no emotional impact on you.

This shows me that your ARE NOT DBing. Where in DB are you supposed to "engage; playfully"?!?

Remember, you treat her like the cashier at the store. You do not initiate engagement. If she does, be upbeat, confident, pleased and fulfilled, but only answer her questions. Do not offer more. And then be the one to the the engagement. "I have something I need to do it or somewhere I need to be." Then walk away. Do not apologize for it, just state the above and go.

You're correct. Prior to last weekend I had been consistently DB'ing since November and then I lost the plot in an effort to prove myself to her. What a mistake. As of right now I will course correct and get back on the DB path.

The course and sex therapist alarms me. It sounds like you are still planning on following through with the "good sex with wife" plan. What makes your think that it in any way is a good plan? She won't even be playful with you! Stop doing things for her benefit! Improve for your and your kids and only you and your kids.

Again, you're right. A huge part of me wanted to prove my prowess to her after hearing her say she's unsatisfied. However the PE is an actual issue that I want to solve for myself. I have the gift of time, as DnJ says, and if I can address some performance issues myself I want to do that. So I plan to continue the program and not test it on her

Have you picked a drop dead date? You need one! Pick one. "If she's not fully committed back to the marriage by this date, I'm going to have my lawyer file for D."

This is correct but keep in mind that by the time you got here she had completely checked out of the marriage. When you think of time and space to miss you we are likely talking years.

February 16 is the date I plan to file. I know my W and I haven't seen much from her that suggests she is planning to commit. Like I said earlier, I believe she is enjoying the space she's getting right now, which is to be expected. February 16 will be 5 months since D-Day, and 3+ years of disconnection since the PA. What's kept me from filing up until now is that I'm not sure I was prepared to follow through, but I am more comfortable with it every day. I spend a lot of alone time with just me+kids and I really enjoy it, and the idea of living without the chaos of my W's behavior appeals to me. Filing in Feb gives us time to sort details and prepare to sell the house once the kids are out of school.

[Ready2Change]

R2C, a question for you on my sitch. When is attraction dead and never coming back in your view? In the face of all this I have been upbeat and resilient, showing confidence in myself and that I will be ok. I still engage my W playfully and she totally shuts me down - "leave me alone!" is a typical response. I'll smirk and tease her "uh oh, someone called the fun police" and walk away, but inside I feel rejected.

Is your behavior working?

You really have to listen to tone and inflection and respect what she is requesting with "Leave me alone".

She has to miss you and the resentment has to go away.

Read and live the four agreements. Do not take anything she does personally.