Hello. I'm very grateful that the book and forum exist. The following is a post I submitted to the r/marriage subreddit 8 days ago looking for advice/ answers. That's where I first heard about the DB book. I wish I had read it sooner. None of my methods were in alignment with the book. What follows is my story. I've recently committed to the DB way. Everything I was doing didn't seem to help at all. So here I am. Eager to learn. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this. Any input, thoughts, feedback, or words of encouragement will be greatly appreciated. It's been rough.
My (45m) wife (33f) left me 7 months ago. We have been married for 10.5 years. We met online and Skyped for nearly a year before meeting in person. She's Filipina from the Philippines. She is my second wife. I was first married when I was 23. My first wife was a 21 yr old white female (rule out neckbeard/ asian fetish). My first marriage lasted 3 yrs. I should not have married her. I was not even close to mature enough. I was a controlling, manipulative a-hole. I went into therapy after our divorce and learned a lot about myself and faced my issues. It helped a lot. It made me a better person, but maybe not a better person in a relationship if that makes sense. I was also diagnosed with ADHD at that time. I didn't want to take amphetamines, and I didn't really buy into the diagnosis. It made sense for kids, but adults? I also have a BS in psychology. I had multiple relationships between my divorce and meeting my current wife. They typically didn't last longer than a year. I dumped and got dumped. I got ghosted once. It hurt.
Then I met my wife. She is the kindest most beautiful woman that I have ever met. I had no expectations for our future. She lived 90 mins north of Manila (Pampanga). I had been a Navy Corpsman that did my entire enlistment with the Marine Corps in Camp LeJeune and Guantanamo Bay. I had heard a million stories about Filipinas, Koreans, Japanese girls, etc. I grew up in a small town in north central Minnesota pop. 2200. I had no experience with any Asian culture, or people of any color for that matter. My ex wife was from a neighboring town of 1000. After meeting my current wife on Yahoo, we would Skype every day for a few hours. The age difference is what it is. I wasn't looking for a woman her age. It just happened (fire away) I wasn't super mature myself, and look 15- 20 yrs younger than my age. She was very inexperienced. I had a few manwhore years after the divorce, and was on the opposite end of the experience spectrum. I come from a family of high functioning alcoholics, and the military helped me to become a competitive black out drinker. I nearly died from alcohol poisoning on multiple occasions. I wasn't known for making the best decisions regarding intimacy whilst intoxicated. Thank the lord I quit drinking shortly after getting married to my current and 2nd wife.
I flew over to meet her after 9ish months of daily Skyping. She never asked me for money. In that time period, I gave her $50 one time because her 3 yr old nephew was super sick and her sister didn't have the money to take him to a private hospital. She only lied to me once about having a job at a store in the mall when she wasn't working (I called the store to surprise her and they had no idea who I was talking about}. I trusted her. She didn't drink, smoke, gamble, hadn't had sex, etc. Her older sister was the wild child that did all of the above and was harshly punished by their father. We met in Manila. It was magical, as if it were meant to be. We bounced around to Palawan, Boracay, Bohol, and then we met her family. It went great. I loved them, they loved me. I proposed, she accepted.
I flew back to Seattle, filled out the K1 Fiance paperwork. It gets approved, she flies here, and we get married. I get her driving lessons and a car when she got her license. She wanted to work. So, she got a job at a Goodwill not far from my condo to work on perfecting her English. She is an incredibly hard worker. She is also amazing at following rules. For example, if she was in the break room, sitting next to coworkers that were gossiping, she would get up and go sit in a different area. She was employee of the month nearly every month. I encouraged her to climb the ladder.... supervisor then assistant manager etc. I should also mention that I am a surgical assistant that used to specialize in cardiac surgery. Now I work with babies (L&D)and boobies (cosmetic/ plastic). I make150-200k yearly. She didn't have to work, but I wanted her to be happy. She eventually tried a couple other jobs and ended up working at a Costco not far from our house. I had been working a bunch to save up for a house. We got out of the rented condo and into a nice 3bdrm 3 ba home on an acre at a great price 7 yrs ago. Then Covid. Now we couldn't go back to visit her family even if we wanted to.
We used to go back and visit her family every year for a couple of weeks and travel all around the Philippines. I am basically not in touch with my family at all. My father died from an alcohol related stroke 4 years ago. So, I really love her family. They are wonderful people. They never ask me for anything, but I always try to help. Whether it's buying them a van, paying private school tuition for a cousin whose father died, or finding a place for her mom to get a colonoscopy. We would pack an entire suitcase with Costco candy bars to give to all the kids in the neighborhood. I have made plenty of bad decisions in my past, but I genuinely do my best to bring joy to the lives of others.
I quit drinking shortly we got married, quit smoking a few years later, and I haven't really been into drugs. However, I did listen to a podcast about spirituality and psychedelics that affected me (Sam Harris on Tim Ferris). So, I grew some magic mushrooms. I always did them alone while my wife was working. It was interesting. Changed my perspective a little. She tried microdosing, but wasn't into it. She also worried about the legality. I'm in Washington state and pscyh possession has been decriminalized in some areas. I told her that it was low risk. Then I learned about DMT. I tried to make some. That involves chemistry lab stuff and appears sketchy. She doesn't like it. When asked what happens if the police show up? I tell her that I am probably in some trouble but not a lot. I am not trying to sell anything. It's just for me, and only her and I knew about it.
However, our communication has been poor since we got married. I was with the Marine Corps, and I spent many years working with super alpha cardiac surgeons.... so, I am a very direct communicator (to some probably dickish). My is the polar opposite. She is a very kind, sweet, passive person. Even though our styles are opposite, I felt they were complementary.
I am not natively empathetic. Example- we are moving into our new house. I am backing up the U Haul, and I tell her to put her arm up and yell "Stop" when I am close to the house. She is looking at the house and not the roof. So, I plow into the roof and crush the gutter on the first day of owning our house. I am shocked and say/ kinda yell but not scream "Babe! Oh my god!!! What happened?!?! Weren't you paying attention????" Then she looks at me and tears start falling from both her eyes. It's making me tear up thinking about it. I felt so terrible. I never ever want her to be sad. My bossy/ direct style made it really hard for me to communicate because she naturally would respond emotionally and I wasn't good with emotions. So, eventually I stopped saying things. And I found out later that she was afraid to say things. Then we didn't talk much at all. The downward spiral begins.
Sex was now non-existent. Dead bedroom. Our sex life hadn't ever been great. I wanted to go slowly. I wasn't as good of a teacher as I thought I would be. I couldn't remember having sex sober. Yikes! Neither of us knew what to do. We both want kids. My testosterone was low, and I had a prescription. I stopped taking it to start trying to have a baby, then the machinery wouldn't cooperate. That does quite a number on a man's mind. It was awkward at best. Vitamin V didn't work on me. In retrospect we should have started counseling then. Instead, we read John Gottman, and the Love Language books. We both want kids, but we'd become more like roommates. And since Covid, her sister had another kid, her youngest brother got married and had 2 kids that she had never met! She talked about leaving and going back to the Philippines. I didn't want her to go, but I wasn't happy either. So, my solution was working 6-7 days a week. They gave her a crazy schedule at Costco. I told her to give her notice if they wouldn't give her a normal schedule. She had been employee of the month multiple times. They didn't budge. So she quit. She stayed at home and did gardening for 15 months prior to her leaving. She had 2 primary friends that she hung out with. She stopped talking to both of them around this time. So she hung out with our 2 dogs, and would video chat with her family for 3-4 hrs every day. She was becoming clinically depressed. I was working 2 jobs and only had Thursday off. I would spend the day off in bed. I was also super depressed. I tried LSD to get me out of it. I only did it once and it was amazing but didn't affect my dying marriage. I told my wife to plan a vacation, get concert tickets, anything.... she didn't. Things are not getting better. She told her mom I didn't want to have sex with her (not true). So, her mom said "maybe we weren't meant to be together". To my wife, this was her mom giving her permission to leave me, but it's a lie. My wife is the sexiest woman on the planet. I want to have as many kids as we can afford with her. I want her to be the mother of my children. She will be an amazing mother. It's what we both want more than anything. That seems so far away now. Our 10 year anniversary was 6 weeks after she left.
It turns out adult ADHD is pretty real, and I have it. I was just not diagnosed as a kid because it was a newish diagnosis back then, and I was in a very small town. I had been self-medicating forever. I used to drink 4-5 cans of coke, smoke a pack of cigs daily, and drink 2-3 Costco 5hr energy drinks. That wasn't super healthy. So, I tried Kratom. I loved it. My wife was unimpressed with me buying a couple kilos and weighing out my daily 3.5gm dose to mix with some organic OJ. I have always been into Nootropics/ supplements etc. I like longevity podcasts and science. So, when the guy that sold me the LSD (which I thoroughly reagent tested before taking) had some Bromantane (a mild stimulant more powerful than caffeine, but less than Adderall, and is used to treat ADHD) for sale, I CashApped the $$ and got 30. Little did I know that it was not the stimulant Bromantane, but the powerful benzodiazepine Bromazolam. I have never taken opiates before. So, I took one and had a drug induced psychosis that lasts 36hrs. I have no memory of the events that took place in that time period. I only have the super hurtful texts I sent to my mother and sister as evidence, and the testimony of my wife. Not good. Took pill Wednesday afternoon, remember waking up to the hospital calling me at 11am, 4 hours late for work. I had multiple scrapes and bruises on my body. My wife said that I was naked the entire time (not the norm) and had fallen down the stairs multiple times. She wanted to call 911 but didn't because of the chemistry set I still had in the garage. I apparently said many horrible things to everyone, I called my mom and told her what a whore she was. Told my sister what a bitch she was and how I couldn't stand her. All that pales in comparison with me telling my wife that if she ever left me "I would hunt her down and kill her and the dogs." Oof and Yikes! It makes me nauseous typing those words. When she told me that, I started to cry. I felt beyond terrible. I apologized and apologized. I asked if I did anything like get a knife, gun, or any kind of weapon. She said no. She said I asked to take a picture of the steak she cooked me. I said "Huh?" Then she showed me a picture of a steak on her phone. I don't remember a steak or any of the above. I love my wife and dogs more than anything. I was freaked out. She was freaked out. I started counseling via the BetterHelp app the next day. I hadn't blacked out in 20 yrs. My wife and I were terrible communicators but had no history of any physical threats, acts of mailce, or murderous intentions. Ugh. She slept in the guest bedroom. I tried to give her space. We would talk about stuff. I would cry and feel bad. I knew she was hurt. I didn't understand how she was taking it so seriously when my behavior was so bizarre, but her feelings were real. I could see it in her eyes. Accident or not, that's [censored] up and my fault. Nothing even remotely close to that level of crazy had ever happened in the 10+ yrs that we had been together. She texted me that she wanted to leave and asked me to give the dogs lots of love. It feels like my heart is breaking all over again as I type this. She loved the dogs more than anything. Probably more than she loved me. I started crying and couldn't stop. I got down on my knees and begged her to stay. I don't think my wife had ever seen me cry before this. The next day I showed her the email receipt for the Bromantane and the updated webpage where it was now Bromazolam. I thought she had to have been around drunken uncles or her dad saying all kinds of nonsense while intoxicated. I apologized again and again. She was also super sick for a number of weeks leading up to this with a respiratory infection that wouldn't go away. She wasn't well physically and now mentally. I know now that she had been thinking about and planning to leave me for weeks maybe even months before this. We talked about her staying with a friend, maybe my mom. Instead, I came home from work on a Sunday night 3 weeks later and she was gone, but she didn't take the dogs.
She left her keys, her car, all the debit/ credit cards and a note saying she needed some space and she didn't take any of my money. I know now that my wife is now a runaway bride. It [censored] that I had no idea there was such a thing. Her note didn't mention divorce or being done. We still texted each other. I have a bunch of Blink security cameras in and around the house that she would watch and talk to the dogs and me. I continued therapy, learned about my feelings and needs, how to express them, etc. I read and learned about non-violent communication, attachment theory, Brene Brown, etc. I would share some of the things I learned with my wife. She did the attachment test. I'm anxious, and she's avoidant. Bad combo. I completed two different online anger management courses that my therapist thought might be helpful , and they were. I respect her space. I don't ask where she is. She tells me she is working at a Daycare, lives alone, and works 7 days a week. Her physical health is not improving. She has total body rashes that won't go away, and rectal pain from her period that's so bad she can't walk. I tell her to go to an urgent care. She does. I get the bill from my insurance, and the provider is in Ohio. I ask her. She does a USPS change of address. She agrees to couples therapy. We both show up virtually. Then says that the time doesn't work. I find a new therapist. We both show up. The therapist is great! Next I do a session alone. Then she does a session alone. The therapist emails me saying that my wife isn't ready to continue. That she is still trying to figure out what she wants from our relationship, etc. I ask for another appointment. Initially we agreed on total transparency when we started with this therapist. The intake questionnaire was lengthy and asked lots of specific questions. In the follow up session I asked if she wanted a divorce? Therapist said no. I asked if there was another romantic interest? She said I had nothing to worry about there.
That was the first week of November, two months ago. I don't know what to do? I take full ownership of being completely ignorant of her feelings. I knew things were not great. I was not opposed to a separation period to reevaluate. However, it has gone on much longer than I expected. I love my wife. She is the most amazing person I have ever met. I describe her as "if a goddess and an angel had a baby" - that's my wife. I think I should wait. My therapist thinks that's not super healthy. She is treating me like I don't exist. She asks about the dogs, but doesn't want to video chat with them or me. Rarely asks about me or my life. One of my closest male friends committed suicide 3 weeks ago. So, I was really emotional and asked her to please come home. I'm so sorry, etc etc. I know it might have come across as needy and lame. I sent more texts than I needed to. However, she sends me an email that's pretty messed up saying I was a shitty person, I took advantage of her, now she had PTSD, I hadn't changed at all, why should she come home, the only thing that changed was the ADHD (which I had never told her about being previously diagnosed because I didn't think it mattered). It was pretty hurtful. After reading it, I knew there was no way she had written it. Perfect grammar and not a single spelling error. So, I text her that I appreciated all the effort that went into the email, but that I know she didn't write it. I also said that if she genuinely felt what was in the email was true that we should talk about it face to face, video chat, or go back to therapy. In my opinion, texting is not how you handle life altering decisions. She responded, via, text, that her therapist wrote it and she agreed with it 100% and she didn't want to video chat or talk about it. If I had questions that I should email them. However, she doesn't mention divorce or ending our marriage at all. I forwarded the email to my therapist and he agreed that it was not written by a therapist. Lots of blame and accusations with no ownership or "I" statements. My therapist and a couple other friends in the mental health world all agreed that the email is very confusing.
In the email, she lists her primary complaints - being ignored, my starting not finishing house projects, my being disorganized, how I am easily frustrated, and impulsive spending. Those are all ADHD symptoms that I am working on. When she told me that she didn't feel safe, it was very confusing to me. I was her protector. I had been a soldier and own a couple of guns. Did that make her feel safe or unsafe? I am still not sure if it was because of me or the psychedelic experimentation. Sadly, it feels like it was mostly me. It feels super bad when the one you love and want to protect doesn't feel safe because of you. I'm still genuinely confused. How did it get to this point? I know everything isn't my fault. I feel guilty as hell. In the 11 yrs together, I can think of less than a handful of arguments. We never called each other names or made threats. She would give the silent treatment, or I would ignore her and work more. Both not healthy choices.
I should also mention that she submitted paperwork for her parents to come here over a year ago. She has been a citizen for a few years now. The initial portion was approved. She sent in the next batch of paperwork, but parts of the application were rejected. So, she asked me to help. I love her parents and of course I helped. For example, over a week ago she asked me to help her re-scan her birth certificate, merge the 2 pages, and then convert it to a pdf under 4mb. I did it in a couple of minutes and she said thank you. I also agreed to sponsor them because my wife didn't work for a year and doesn't meet the financial requirements to sponsor them on her own. She is very appreciative. But, if I send a voice text and tell her that I miss her, I love her, and that I hope we can work things out, she doesn't respond to any of it. I know what love bombing is, and I don't want to do that. I genuinely love my wife. But her actions towards me are "other than loving". It [censored].
My therapist asks me how long am I going to stay in limbo? I have no answer. My therapist tells me that I should turn off the security cameras because it's giving me a false sense of connection. I can't do it. I know that it will hurt her, and I already feel responsible for hurting her. She loves our dogs as much as I do. I'm trying to just be completely honest, and always choose kindness. She called my mom maybe 4 weeks ago just to talk to her. What does that mean? Would my sweet and beautiful wife really be calling my mom and asking me to help with her parents' visa if she is with someone else or planning on divorcing me? It seems possible that she could be using me to get her parents here. That isn't really in her character. She also could do it herself when she gets her W-2s next month. I am pretty sure that she is as confused as I am. I think she wasn't planning on me be willing to change, and making the effort. I expect her to be wary, but for how long?
I am completely guilty of not appreciating her, taking her for granted, and ignoring her. I have told her these things and apologized. I never did anything to intentionally hurt her feelings. I was and am her biggest fan. I defend her often. I have been in individual therapy for 8 months now. I am on ADHD meds. They help me focus and fight off the depression/ anxiety. The books "Hold Me Tight" and "The ADHD Effect on Marriage" describe our relationship with freakish accuracy. The books give me hope. I sent some MP3 files from the ADHD book to my wife and told her to take a listen to hear that the book was basically describing us. And I gave her the link to the Audible version of Hold Me Tight after reading it and realizing we suffer the same problems as many of the examples in the book. I try not to push. I want her to want to be in this relationship. I don't want to play games, ghost her, or pimp her parents into making her come back. I feel like she's broken, and it might be my fault? If not, I feel like I could have prevented this. I am the older wiser one. Turns out I was older but not really wise in the relationship department. I know that in the past 7 months I have tried to the best of my abilities to be honest with myself and my wife. I have made many changes that have caused me to become a better person. I also know that I will be okay if our marriage ends in divorce. Have any of you recovered from this level of near destruction?
Since I wrote the above,8 days ago, I asked my wife how she wanted me to handle Christmas stuff with her relatives. She unpleasantly responded that I can wish them Merry Christmas but don't send money. I worked a double time shift on the 25th and was planning to give all of the $1500+ to her nieces and nephews. However, I did as she asked. Then while I was chatting with her cousin/ best friend, she mentioned that her husband's hours were cut and bills were tight. She also said my youngest brother in law's family was really struggling. So, I break out the debit card and Western Union them both $200. Turn out my wife is monitoring our joint account that she isn't using and has her sister message me to stop sending money to relatives. So, I cancelled the Western Union. I go get some cash and send it that way. She hasn't texted me in days. The good news is that I haven't texted her either. I wish I would have read this book earlier! I opened a new bank account, set up direct deposit, hung out with a divorced older neighbor/ guy. I intend to maintain radio silence a while. I'm just going to keep working on my self. However, just getting out of bed on my days off hasn't been easy. I have been looking through all the posts on this forum, and it's been very encouraging. I'm not sure what the likelihood of our reconciliation is? I'm now sure she had been planning this for some time. I know the isolated crazy medication event wasn't the cause, but likely the final straw. She has also since told my mom that she left Seattle with a female friend and isn't romantically involved with anyone. I'm trying to mend the relationship with my mother. She's probably coming to visit in the next few weeks. She talked to my wife about coming back to visit the dogs when my mom is here. I don't want to get my hopes up.
Last edited by DnJ; 01/04/2406:43 AM. Reason: Removed swear word.
Jalen, wow. Quite a read. I'm still digesting a lot of it. But my first reaction is to caution you: DB is not a quick fix or a magic pill that will fix everything. I get the sense that when you have a problem you look for a magic fix. Alcohol. Drugs. Psychedelics. Prescriptions. You seem to be consuming information and books, but not necessarily to improve yourself but to find that magic fix.
Sadly, there is no magic fix. No Jedi mind trick. No "say this and do this" that will fix your marriage.
The odds are stacked against you, I'm not going to lie. You have lots of issues and dynamics involved here, and it's tricky and dicey.
This is what I do believe: if you throw yourself into DBing to work on you, and only to work on you, then you will move your life forward healthy and happy no matter what she decides.
One thing I like to do is remind people that we live in an imperfect world. If people don't leave us of their own volition, disease and accident and disaster and crime could take them out of our lives. Being so attached to someone that we can't move our lives forward is a big problem in an imperfect world. Rather than focusing on her or the marriage, you should be focusing on overcoming your anxious attachment. Focusing on becoming a healthy, happy individual. Focus on becoming the best, substance free, fully formed person you can possibly be.
No more discussing her in therapy. Discuss yourself. No more sending her books, videos and podcasts to read, watch and listen to, but just keep on reading, watching and listening yourself. No more trying to be the hero by sending her family money. No more thinking about contacting her parents. No more burying yourself in work to run away from your own issues.
In fact, you've told us your own family relationships are a mess. There is another area you can focus on. I'm not sure you can ever be a productive part of someone else's family if you can't even be part of your own. In rare occasions people's families are so toxic that they can't be part of it. However, are you the only one that has that big of a problem with your family? Is it just you? I've learned a lesson in my own life: when I step back and look at issues, if everyone else is the problem, more than likely I'm the problem.
If you leave her alone, follow the rules of engagement (don't call her, don't answer if she calls. If she emails or texts do not respond right away. If it's informational then there is no need to respond. If she asks a question, answer it but in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers), then maybe one day she'll reach out and truly want to explore reconciliation. She may never do that and you may one day get served divorce papers. No one knows. But if you remove all focus from her, and focus on yourself and moving your own life forward, you will be okay no matter what she decides.
Finally, you seem like an impatient person. Maybe that's the ADHD. Maybe you're just like me and want things in your own time. But what I can tell you is impulsiveness and impatience will destroy your DB efforts. So if you get nothing else out of this response please get this: this is a marathon, not a sprint. We've seen situations here that have lasted 2, 3, even 4 years or more. This goes back to what I said earlier: there are no quick fixes here. So learn to be patient.. Learn to control your impulses. Unfortunately, fixing your marriage is out of your control. So stop trying to control that and focus on controlling yourself.
Finally, keep posting. There are a lot of wise people here. Keep an open mind to their feedback and advice. We all want to help.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Welcome to the boards. I am copying Cadet’s welcome for your reference. There are many links to a wealth of useful information. Do take some time to read them over.
I m glad you’ve found DR and are applying its DB principles. Do keep DB, the books, and this site close to your chest as your W will likely view it as an attempt to manipulate her back. Any changes you make need to be for you, as that way those positive changes will be permanent.
I look forward to conversing with you.
DnJ
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Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Hi SteveLW! Thank you for such a thoughtful reply. Evaluating your analysis of me has been interesting and really thought provoking! Thank you for your outside perspective. After reading your post, it appears that I have left out a number of important details.
I think the problem that I have with all of it is that I can't put the pieces together in my brain. I wish she cheated. I wish she would just tell me that she wants a divorce. I wish she would take ownership of something. I am just as confused today as I was after she had been gone for 3 weeks. I genuinely thought she would go back to the Philippines for a couple of weeks, maybe a month or two. I was completely shocked to learn that she moved to Ohio. What the heck? The uncertainty creates an emptiness that fills with anxiety every now and again. I don't like feeling anxious. It's out of my control, but I am still affected by it.
I despise deception and dishonesty. She left because of a lie. If she didn't lie to her mother, she never would have left. She knows she lied. This is all based on a lie. My wife always does the right thing. She always chooses kindness. To me, and my knowledge of her values and beliefs, this is neither right or kind. I feel guilty, and it's a burden. Yet, I don't want to give up. The accusatory email she sent to me was obviously written by one of the female "friends" she left with. Again with the honesty, why make a bunch of bizarre false accusations? What is the intent? My brain has a hard time letting go of this puzzle that I can't solve. It makes no sense to me. I am okay with it being over, but I would like it to make sense and be truthful. It's especially hurtful to me because I have admitted my mistakes, been open and willing to change, made many changes, and I am willing to try anything. I was really excited to start therapy. However, I know I can't make her do anything. She put in zero effort. That surprised and saddened me.
Other than that, I'm great. The long post was written on a lonely Christmas day a couple weeks after my best friend killed himself. It was more intense and emotional than I am now. I am super happy with the progress I've made in my life. I learned that I have emotions. Lots of them. I can now readily identify them and share them with the world or just say them out loud to my dogs. That alone has been transformational! I've learned all about NVC and a word called empathy! That book and that word have forever altered how I communicate with the world.
I also did a 22 day water fast before, during, and after my wife left and lost 38lbs. I wasn't that overweight to begin with. Then I adopted a whole food/ plant based diet that I've stuck with for 7 months now. I'm healthier than I have ever been. I had a physical, ran a bunch of labs, and the results were all better than they have ever been.
I have tried a variety of prescription ADHD meds. Unfortunately, the side effects were not good. I am still working on finding a combination that works for me. As for the drug stuff, I was told that I am "relentlessly curious". I think that applies here. I listened to Sam Harris on the Tim Ferriss podcast. I was sold on the possibility of a transcendent spiritual experience. I like to experiment. From my perspective it's self exploration and not the self destruction of my youth. I don't do any recreational drugs currently. I am also not taking any prescription drugs. I just take a few supplements.
I have a lot of time to myself alone. That's new. I have been doing mindfulness meditations, gratitude journaling, and finishing the projects that I started when my wife was still here. I am always listening to or reading adhd, self-help or relationship books. I know that even if my wife were to consider reconciliation that we have months to years of couples therapy. I wish there was a quick fix. However, I know that isn't realistic. I know the odds are against us. She's been gone a long time. Her actions speak volumes.
As for my family.... I'll just say that I was treated so poorly as a teenager that the court took custody of me, and I became a ward of the state. I lived in a children's home when I was 17-18. My family was/ is pretty toxic. I only tried to reconcile with them because family is so important in my wife's culture. However, my mom and I are working it out. With any luck, she'll be out here in a couple weeks.
As for the DBing, radio silence it is. It's been almost 9 days now. I'm feeling good. I worry about her. I know she's really sad not seeing the dogs. My mother said she was really sick and sounded terrible. This is the longest she has gone without seeing the dogs.
I should wrap this up. I wanted to let you know that I'm doing pretty good and hopefully on the right track without being too defensive. And that I really appreciate your insight and encouragement. It's time to practice patience. Again, thank you for your time, effort, and energy. If you have been on here since 2018, I am sure you have seen a thing or two and know a little bit about what works and doesn't. It's all in God's hands. Only he knows how this plays out. Thank you for reading this. God bless.
Hi SteveLW! Thank you for such a thoughtful reply. Evaluating your analysis of me has been interesting and really thought provoking! Thank you for your outside perspective. After reading your post, it appears that I have left out a number of important details.
Jalen you bring up an important point here. We can only react to what you tell us. Understand, the advice and feedback come from seeing dozens of situations. As you will see in this response, that means that even without details we can pick up on subtle things that you may not see, or may not quite grasp fully. It is hard to see the forest for the trees in the thick of your own situation. Part of the value of this forum is the collective wisdom and understanding that those of us that post here have accumulated. But it is true we can't know what you haven't told us, which is why I ended my original response by urging you to keep posting.
Originally Posted by Jalan1
I think the problem that I have with all of it is that I can't put the pieces together in my brain. I wish she cheated. I wish she would just tell me that she wants a divorce. I wish she would take ownership of something. I am just as confused today as I was after she had been gone for 3 weeks. I genuinely thought she would go back to the Philippines for a couple of weeks, maybe a month or two. I was completely shocked to learn that she moved to Ohio. What the heck? The uncertainty creates an emptiness that fills with anxiety every now and again. I don't like feeling anxious. It's out of my control, but I am still affected by it.
This is a lot of focus on her. One thing that you have to understand is that you may never understand any of this. We fellas are interesting. We want to understand how things work. We want to understand why something is broken. It comes from an underlying belief that by knowing those two things we can fix anything. However, the simple truth in these kinds of things is that we may never know how it works, we may never understand why it is broken, and we certainly cannot fix it! That is a hard truth for a lot of LBSs to get and understand. But especially most LBHs.
Originally Posted by Jalan1
I despise deception and dishonesty. She left because of a lie. If she didn't lie to her mother, she never would have left. She knows she lied. This is all based on a lie. My wife always does the right thing. She always chooses kindness. To me, and my knowledge of her values and beliefs, this is neither right or kind. I feel guilty, and it's a burden. Yet, I don't want to give up. The accusatory email she sent to me was obviously written by one of the female "friends" she left with. Again with the honesty, why make a bunch of bizarre false accusations? What is the intent? My brain has a hard time letting go of this puzzle that I can't solve. It makes no sense to me. I am okay with it being over, but I would like it to make sense and be truthful. It's especially hurtful to me because I have admitted my mistakes, been open and willing to change, made many changes, and I am willing to try anything. I was really excited to start therapy. However, I know I can't make her do anything. She put in zero effort. That surprised and saddened me.
More focus on her and her stuff. When LBSs struggle with things like this what I like to tell them is that you need to focus on what you know to be true. All of this other stuff, trying to get in her head, mind read, figure out why she is doing what she is doing it a cheese-less tunnel. The more time you spend in cheese-less tunnels the more time you are wasting not working on yourself! The simple truth is that WASs do things that do not make sense, that are counter to who they are, and that the LBS may never understand. You are right you cannot make her do anything. You cannot expect to understand everything. But you know what is in your control? Being okay with that! Focus on that.
Originally Posted by Jalan1
Other than that, I'm great. The long post was written on a lonely Christmas day a couple weeks after my best friend killed himself. It was more intense and emotional than I am now. I am super happy with the progress I've made in my life. I learned that I have emotions. Lots of them. I can now readily identify them and share them with the world or just say them out loud to my dogs. That alone has been transformational! I've learned all about NVC and a word called empathy! That book and that word have forever altered how I communicate with the world.
Yes the rollercoaster in these things is real. You do and will have emotions. Lots of them. No doubt. Do not run from them! (You've probably already learned this in therapy.) Feel them. Embrace them. Allow them to come and go. There will be trigger points. There will be moments of extreme anguish when something unrelated happens but triggers those emotions. That is all okay.
What I would try to get you to do is not use those emotions to refocus on what is out of your control. Your job through all of the emotions is to focus on you. Not her. Focus on GAL like a madman. Focus on continuing your self-discovery and journey to a better Jalen. Focus on learning how to be happy by yourself. I have a theory that the only way one can be a healthy half of a relationship is to be a fully formed, happy individual! Our society gets this wrong and that is why the divorce rate is through the roof. Any baggage a person brings into a relationship will be exponentially worse as time goes by in that relationship. Once the limerence phase of a relationship is over, the baggage brought to that relationship will become an elephant in the room. Your goal should be simple: become as healthy and happy as you possibly can so that your next relationship can stand the test of time. Whether that is with your WAW, or someone new. Your current marriage is dead. The next marriage you have (whether with her or someone else) will be a completely new thing. Be ready to become a man only a fool would leave!
Originally Posted by Jalan1
I also did a 22 day water fast before, during, and after my wife left and lost 38lbs. I wasn't that overweight to begin with. Then I adopted a whole food/ plant based diet that I've stuck with for 7 months now. I'm healthier than I have ever been. I had a physical, ran a bunch of labs, and the results were all better than they have ever been.
Great! Focusing on health through all of this is very important. I am glad to hear this, well done.
Originally Posted by Jalan1
I have tried a variety of prescription ADHD meds. Unfortunately, the side effects were not good. I am still working on finding a combination that works for me. As for the drug stuff, I was told that I am "relentlessly curious". I think that applies here. I listened to Sam Harris on the Tim Ferriss podcast. I was sold on the possibility of a transcendent spiritual experience. I like to experiment. From my perspective it's self exploration and not the self destruction of my youth. I don't do any recreational drugs currently. I am also not taking any prescription drugs. I just take a few supplements.
I have to be honest with you Jalen, this sounds like excuses. In short you are saying, "That's the way I am". I grew up with a child of an alcoholic parent as a parent. (Wow, that is confusing. My dad's dad was an abusive alcoholic.) The behavior I saw from him was that nothing was his fault. He had reasons, excuses, and the last one was always "I can't help it, that is how I am."
I fell into the trap, used alcohol as an escape. Was a full blown alcoholic in my late teens and early 20s. (I will be 30 years sober in February.) What I learned is we get to choose how we are. It isn't predefined, immutable, and set in stone. Here is the interesting thing about your last paragraph, after making excuses (I am experimental, I am relentlessly curious) you prove my point! "I don't do any recreational drugs currently. I am also not taking any prescription drugs." Awesome! 30 years of sobriety have taught me two things: Life is better clean and sober. And that problems are only worsened by substances!
So keep up the good work here, but OWN your addiction issues from the past. Yes I know you were not addicted to the drugs and psychedelics, but you admitted that you were to alcohol at one point. Using mind-altering substances are all tied together. An addict doesn't get to be curious and experiment. An addict has to focus on 100% sobriety every single day. Think about how knowing that and living by it before all of this could have changed your life.
Originally Posted by Jalan1
I have a lot of time to myself alone. That's new. I have been doing mindfulness meditations, gratitude journaling, and finishing the projects that I started when my wife was still here. I am always listening to or reading adhd, self-help or relationship books. I know that even if my wife were to consider reconciliation that we have months to years of couples therapy. I wish there was a quick fix. However, I know that isn't realistic. I know the odds are against us. She's been gone a long time. Her actions speak volumes.
I like this paragraph. You are thinking clearly in this paragraph. You are mostly focused on yourself. Now one adjustment: don't be alone so much. Get out there and meet new people. Make new friends. You tell me "God bless" at the end of this. Find a church and start attending! The LBSs that struggle the most are the ones that do GAL the worst. Don't be that LBS! Get out there and interact with others in positive, healthy ways.
Originally Posted by Jalan1
I don't do any recreational drugs currently. I am also not taking any prescription drugs. As for my family.... I'll just say that I was treated so poorly as a teenager that the court took custody of me, and I became a ward of the state. I lived in a children's home when I was 17-18. My family was/ is pretty toxic. I only tried to reconcile with them because family is so important in my wife's culture. However, my mom and I are working it out. With any luck, she'll be out here in a couple weeks.
Okay, I have to admit the wording here bothers me. "I don't do any recreational drugs currently." Hmm. That sounds like you are open to it in the future. Remember what I said about us former addicts. Your mindset should be one day at a time with the goal of never being drunk or high ever again. Drop the currently.
As I said, your family may be too toxic to reconcile with. But after claiming that you admit that you are working on it with your mom. Great! Explore that. If it becomes toxic pull the rip cord and parachute out of it. But you really have nothing to lose.
Originally Posted by Jalan1
As for the DBing, radio silence it is. It's been almost 9 days now. I'm feeling good. I worry about her. I know she's really sad not seeing the dogs. My mother said she was really sick and sounded terrible. This is the longest she has gone without seeing the dogs.
Small 2x4 here Jalan: 9 days is nothing. It is a drop of water in the ocean. She isn't going to trust things after 9 days. 9 days is not going to make her start questioning her choices. and then you get back into focus on her with how long its been since she's seen the dogs. Be honest here: have you been using the dogs as a way to stay in contact with her? You don't have to answer me, answer that for yourself. DBing is not about undermining the process. You don't remove all pressure and pursuit, all focus from her and focus on yourself. And then secretly get to scratch your contact itch through the dogs.
Even your therapist sees it: "My therapist tells me that I should turn off the security cameras because it's giving me a false sense of connection. I can't do it. I know that it will hurt her, and I already feel responsible for hurting her. She loves our dogs as much as I do. I'm trying to just be completely honest, and always choose kindness."
To me this sounds like a bridge too far for Jalen, so he falls back into the excuses, "I am too kind". Or is Jalen doing this for Jalen? Even if it is kindness, one of the hardest truths I had to learn in my own situation was: "You cannot nice her back." You do things because they are the right thing to do for you. This false sense of connection may be what's holding you back from really being able to move forward. She fired you as her husband, abandoned the house and dogs. You owe her NOTHING!
And that brings me to this: "So, she asked me to help. I love her parents and of course I helped. For example, over a week ago she asked me to help her re-scan her birth certificate, merge the 2 pages, and then convert it to a pdf under 4mb. I did it in a couple of minutes and she said thank you. I also agreed to sponsor them because my wife didn't work for a year and doesn't meet the financial requirements to sponsor them on her own."
This all sounds like something a husband would do for his wife. It sounds like a nice thing to do. Now ask yourself, is that in keeping with DB? Is that really what moves your situation forward? Or is that more Jalen's excuses of kindness trying to nice her back.
Next time she reaches out for something like this try: "I am really busy and don't think I can get to this." You need her to start missing you a little bit. And Jalen, 9 days ain't gonna do it!
One last question to ponder. She left without a car, without money or credit cards. Didn't work for a year. Moved to Ohio. An expensive move. And as you are well aware, living on your own in these United States is not cheap. How? I do not bring this up for you to focus on her. But to say you need to brace yourself for the other shoe to drop. Another saying we have around here is "a monkey doesn't jump from the branch it is on until it has identified another branch that can support it." You say you wish she had cheated. Maybe she has.......
How does that change things?
Originally Posted by Jalan1
I should wrap this up. I wanted to let you know that I'm doing pretty good and hopefully on the right track without being too defensive. And that I really appreciate your insight and encouragement. It's time to practice patience. Again, thank you for your time, effort, and energy. If you have been on here since 2018, I am sure you have seen a thing or two and know a little bit about what works and doesn't. It's all in God's hands. Only he knows how this plays out. Thank you for reading this. God bless.
You weren't too defensive. Maybe a tad, but that is to be expected. Hard truths are hard. And yes you do need patience. But not patience for her or the marriage, patience for yourself. Jalen, please understand that you need to do everything, GAL, self-improvements, emotional detachment, patience, staying clean and sober, etc FOR YOU and ONLY YOU. Not to get her back. Not to save the marriage. Sometimes that comes along for the ride, but the goal here is for a better, happier and healthier Jalen moving forward. No matter what becomes of the things out of his control.
One last thing. The email. You seem fixated on that. At the end of the day who wrote it is immaterial. It got sent because she endorsed it. She signed off on it. That is a truth you need to wake up to and embrace. Hyper-focusing on who wrote it, why it accused you falsely, etc is another cheese-less tunnel. Let it go. There is nothing to be gained by fighting that email. And it changes nothing that you should be doing.
One final thought too, because I see you struggle with confusion on her behavior. You expected her to go back to the Philippines. You think she is confused and that confuses you. Another saying of truth we have around here: "When they want to come back you will know. When they don't you will be confused." It doesn't matter IF she hasn't cheated. It doesn't matter whether or not she wants a divorce. What matters is that you are confused....and therefore you need to assume that she doesn't want to come back. The reasons are unimportant, but knowing that truth means you get to focus on you!
God bless you too, Jalen. You are doing pretty well, but there are a lot of things for you to work on as well! So focus on what you can control, let go of what you can't.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Her primary complaints are all ADHD symptoms. Our attachment styles make out relationship hard. My anxious attachment style comes from multiple abandonment events as a child. I think my wife is an intelligent woman. How can an intelligent person disregard all of this new evidence that's badically a smoking gun? That's what's so perplexing. How can stare at smoking gun when there's a body with bullet holes and think "must have been a stroke?" I'm sad that she chooses not to see the evidence that I think connects all the dots. I'm disappointed that despite all this evidence, she feels that our relationship isn't worth investigating those possibilities. It makes so much sense to me. Why doesn't it make sense to her? It's frustrating and confusing.Thanks for reading.
Her primary complaints are all ADHD symptoms. Our attachment styles make out relationship hard. My anxious attachment style comes from multiple abandonment events as a child. I think my wife is an intelligent woman. How can an intelligent person disregard all of this new evidence that's badically a smoking gun? That's what's so perplexing. How can stare at smoking gun when there's a body with bullet holes and think "must have been a stroke?" I'm sad that she chooses not to see the evidence that I think connects all the dots. I'm disappointed that despite all this evidence, she feels that our relationship isn't worth investigating those possibilities. It makes so much sense to me. Why doesn't it make sense to her? It's frustrating and confusing.Thanks for reading.
Don't spend time in cheese-less tunnels......
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I think my wife is an intelligent woman. How can an intelligent person disregard all of this new evidence that's badically a smoking gun? That's what's so perplexing. How can stare at smoking gun when there's a body with bullet holes and think "must have been a stroke?" I'm sad that she chooses not to see the evidence that I think connects all the dots. I'm disappointed that despite all this evidence, she feels that our relationship isn't worth investigating those possibilities. It makes so much sense to me. Why doesn't it make sense to her? It's frustrating and confusing. Thanks for reading.
Men think logically. I have identified all the issues and begun fixing them so logically she sees it and understands it. Women think emotionally. I don't FEEL like I can ever be happy with him again.
It's simple when you really understand it but hard to grasp when you first get here.
She has to FEEL differently about you and that is going to take a really long time.
Her primary complaints are all ADHD symptoms. Our attachment styles make out relationship hard. My anxious attachment style comes from multiple abandonment events as a child. I think my wife is an intelligent woman. How can an intelligent person disregard all of this new evidence that's badically a smoking gun? That's what's so perplexing. How can stare at smoking gun when there's a body with bullet holes and think "must have been a stroke?" I'm sad that she chooses not to see the evidence that I think connects all the dots. I'm disappointed that despite all this evidence, she feels that our relationship isn't worth investigating those possibilities. It makes so much sense to me. Why doesn't it make sense to her? It's frustrating and confusing.Thanks for reading.
Don't spend time in cheese-less tunnels......
I like the cheese-less tunnels concept. Reminds of the "Who Moved My Cheese" from years ago.
