P.S. Who cares how it made her feel.. Remember M, emotional detachment. Her feelings are her reality. True. But her feelings ARE her feelings and should have no bearing on your feelings.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I didn't realize this friend knew about what was going on until my W slipped and made a comment, to which this friend replied, "Ok, I have to say this. You're absolutely crazy if you think Maturin is going to put up with this cr@p! Do you know how many single women would want him? If you're gonna act like this just give him to the rest of us!"
On the one hand it was nice to hear that but on the other hand it put my W into defensive mode as the guilt washed over her. She spent the rest of the evening in an argumentative and bitter mood.
Good!
Let her feel the loss. Let her feel her guilt and shame and other feelings that are helpful to your cause.
Originally Posted by Maturin
I so badly want to break through the distance between us…
The best and usually fastest way is in the opposite direction. Stay the course. Implement boundaries on disrespectful behaviours. Focus on you. Become Maturin2.0.
W needs to grow up, hold herself accountable, and be responsible. That’s her path to walk. Seems fate might have given her a bit of a shove in that direction.
You stay clear. Keep the target off you.
Originally Posted by Maturin
I'm trying to better understand how this all impacts my W and how she feels about herself
Most do drop clues. They seek and want validation of their life choice. Yet, that is a a bit shallow and superficial. For deeper down they want to be caught, or called out on. And most don’t even know or realize their desire for such.
Folks pretty much know right from wrong. If W felt no wrong doing, she’d not feel any guilt, shame, confusion, etc. Regret and remorse come from behaving counter to one’s values. As long as one continues on a wayward or disingenuous path they will continue to suffer. Life, fate, the universe, does provide feedback; W is fighting against it. And fighting begets fighting. Her peace and happiness and contentment is not along her present path.
However, that’s her journey.
You, keep doing you.
Have a Merry Christmas my friend.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Merry Christmas to you, D. My hope is that all of the good you do here is paid back in droves over the Christmas season and beyond.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Life, fate, the universe, does provide feedback; W is fighting against it. And fighting begets fighting. Her peace and happiness and contentment is not along her present path.
If there was a way to show waywards this simple fact it would all be much easier. But it's a lesson each of us must learn on our own, mainly through a painful experience, isn't it?
I'm trying to better understand how this all impacts my W and how she feels about herself
This is what we call a cheese-less tunnel.
You can not understand what doesn’t make sense.
If someone told you 1 + 1 = 3, would you spend hours/days/weeks trying to understand how they came to that conclusion or how they feel about it?
Trying to understand the motivations of a WAS/WS (which normally comes with the hidden agenda of then wanting to insert some sort of reasoning or persuasion to them) is a monumental waste of time.
The cold, hard reality is that they have to feel the pain themselves and then decide they want to change their trajectory.
Who gives a stuff what she thinks about the exchanges yesterday!
Please talk to R2C about attractiveness, flirting and humour. You’re more likely to have success by being attractive and moving away from her.
For example, if she again tells you how her friend said there’s lot of single women after you, respond thus: “Great! Did she say any names? I’ll get a pen, I need to write down some numbers!😜” And then leave.
For example, if she again tells you how her friend said there’s lot of single women after you, respond thus: “Great! Did she say any names? I’ll get a pen, I need to write down some numbers!😜” And then leave.
The important part is "the wink and the leaving first".
During my enlightnement after the BD, I grabed this montra: When dealing with women, they are either sleeping with me, or helping me find a woman to sleep with. It is more of an attitude than a way of life. You can have that attitude, while maintaining strong boundaries. If you are like most that arrive here, we either stopped this when we got marrried, or really never had it in the first place.
The hardest part for all those currently going through this who to practice your new skills/behaviors etc with. How do you know if someone is attracted to the new behavior? I practiced with everyone. I intentionally left my comfort zone.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I'm trying to better understand how this all impacts my W and how she feels about herself
This is what we call a cheese-less tunnel.
You can not understand what doesn’t make sense.
If someone told you 1 + 1 = 3, would you spend hours/days/weeks trying to understand how they came to that conclusion or how they feel about it?
Trying to understand the motivations of a WAS/WS (which normally comes with the hidden agenda of then wanting to insert some sort of reasoning or persuasion to them) is a monumental waste of time.
The cold, hard reality is that they have to feel the pain themselves and then decide they want to change their trajectory.
Kind18 sums it up well here. I went down many a cheese-less tunnel during my first go-round with DBing a few years ago. To quote Al Swearengen from the series Deadwood, trying to figure out a WAS or MLC spouse can be "like trying to touch the moon with your finger".
At the same time, in DB and DR, MWD does drop marital situations into several "common dilemmas" (infidelity/wayward spouses, spouses with mental health conditions, MLC, and passionless - see the Contents section of DR). Each provides some background on what our spouses MAY be experiencing and why and, more importantly, she offers potential solutions to consider.
There seems to be a fine line between having at least at a high level an idea of what situation(s) our spouses may be in AND going too far down a cheeseless tunnel, mind-reading, making assumptions, and otherwise over-analyzing the "why" behind our spouses' alien-like behavior.
Long story short - be careful how deep you go down any tunnel related to your spouse's motivations/drivers and focus more on your own improvements, growth, and development.
The hardest part for all those currently going through this who to practice your new skills/behaviors etc with. How do you know if someone is attracted to the new behavior? I practiced with everyone. I intentionally left my comfort zone.
R2C, I spent some time yesterday reading your old threads and I can see some similarities between your sitch and mine. Thanks for following along while I work on myself.
One of the things I've enjoyed about this process is the "new me" I'm building. I've always been outgoing but my W likes to tell me and others that she is the social one and I'm introverted. The reality is that she wants to drink/party which she then reframes as "being social", whereas I enjoy spending time with folks whether the drinks are being poured or not. Now that I've shed the impulse to defend myself from accusations like this one, I'm much more at peace being myself and I make a point to talk to everyone.
Originally Posted by MrP
At the same time, in DB and DR, MWD does drop marital situations into several "common dilemmas" (infidelity/wayward spouses, spouses with mental health conditions, MLC, and passionless - see the Contents section of DR). Each provides some background on what our spouses MAY be experiencing and why and, more importantly, she offers potential solutions to consider.
There seems to be a fine line between having at least at a high level an idea of what situation(s) our spouses may be in AND going too far down a cheeseless tunnel, mind-reading, making assumptions, and otherwise over-analyzing the "why" behind our spouses' alien-like behavior.
I think of my stich as a WW with sprinkles of passion meltdown: once she cheated I think she spent the subsequent 3 years putting space between us. I agree that thinking much beyond that basic framework isn't productive and is counter to detaching.
Still working on GAL and being optimistic and cheerful while simultaneously detaching. That's the focus. I read up on differentiation of self this morning after seeing it mentioned in another old thread and it's yet another reminder of how to live moving forward.
W went to a group dinner last night that I was invited to but declined to attend; when she got home I asked how it was and she said "It was fun, you should have come."
What I've noticed is that on my good days - meaning days where I'm filled with optimism about the future and acceptance of what's happened - I am usually focused on the idea that my W will continue to suffer from the problems she's created and I will be fine. On bad days I find myself dwelling on her rejection of me via the PA, the lack of closeness between us, the years of lying, and the fear that while I am creating space via the DB process she will find herself a Plan A OM and move on. In both cases I am thinking too much about my W. So the goal is to get to a place where I am not thinking this way, but instead fully differentiating myself from her. This is why I think a separation would be helpful after the holidays.
One of the things I've enjoyed about this process is the "new me" I'm building. I've always been outgoing but my W likes to tell me and others that she is the social one and I'm introverted. The reality is that she wants to drink/party which she then reframes as "being social", whereas I enjoy spending time with folks whether the drinks are being poured or not. Now that I've shed the impulse to defend myself from accusations like this one, I'm much more at peace being myself and I make a point to talk to everyone.
I've always considered myself introverted, and W and her family certainly think so. I don't have social anxiety at all; I'm just more comfortable as a listener rather than a talker when in larger groups.
I tried a psychological test recently and was surprised when it scored me as an ambivert--introverted tendencies but extroverted "when necessary." So one of the things I'm doing is to look for situations that I can drop into where being extroverted is "necessary."
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
R2C, I spent some time yesterday reading your old threads and I can see some similarities between your sitch and mine. Thanks for following along while I work on myself.
"Helping others helps me" is one of my mantras. So many things we can think about. As they happen in my life, some deep thought has already happened and hopefully I can make better decisions on how to respond.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
