Now a question for you folks. W has decided to host some of her family at our home on Christmas Eve; my family will be elsewhere. My gut is telling me that I do not attend the event at our home - after all, I am detaching. W has not come to the table about anything regarding the PA, continues to get drunk and be disrespectful, etc. How do I tell her that I am not attending Christmas Eve without sounding spiteful or vengeful? I know her reaction will be "You're just doing this to punish me" and/or "You're being a baby about this." I am of the mind to say "Hey, for Christmas Eve I'll take the kids to my parents for a while and then drop them here for dinner. I'll be home later in the evening." and leave it at that.
Always trust your gut.
"I have other plans" should be your guiding thought.
I like this: "Hey, for Christmas Eve I'll take the kids to my parents for a while and then drop them here for dinner. I'll be home later in the evening."
Concrete time exchanges should be stated. Then negotiated if needed.
Rev 2:
"W, I plan on taking the kids to my parents on Christmas Eve and will drop them off here at 4pm so they can spend time with your parents"
Be firm on the plan, but flexible on the exchange time.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Well, I'm glad I came to the board about the Christmas Eve plan because W unexpectedly asked me about the plans last night. I responded as advised here and she seemed confused, but I held my approach and she agreed. (The confusion was around why I would be at my parents' home - "Do they not want to come over?" I didn't do a great job but simply responded, "I have plans to be there for the evening". My concern is that part of her long-held resentment in the MR is that I choose my FOO over hers, and she may see this as a furthering of that dynamic.)
So in keeping with the theme of being prepared: I have no plans to give W a Christmas gift this year. This is part of my 180, because the old me would have kowtowed with presents as a show of what a great husband I am during a time of crisis. Now I can see that giving gifts is not appropriate given the revelation of the PA, her continued actions, etc. However I am also trying to be positive/optimistic/fun/attractive as a person, and not giving a present on Christmas can seem vindictive or mean.
For those of you who have been in a similar situation, how did you handle it? I am considering approaching her and saying "Let's make this Christmas all about the kids, no gifts are necessary between you and me." Or do I say nothing? I have an inkling that she is getting me something.
My concern is that part of her long-held resentment in the MR is that I choose my FOO over hers, and she may see this as a furthering of that dynamic.)
Your decisions should not be based on her reaction, they should be what is best for YOU.
Originally Posted by Maturin
However I am also trying to be positive/optimistic/fun/attractive as a person, and not giving a present on Christmas can seem vindictive or mean.
Your decisions should not be based on her reaction, they should be what is best for YOU.
Originally Posted by Maturin
For those of you who have been in a similar situation, how did you handle it?
The weekend is here, which means W went out and got drunk at a girlfriend's dinner party last night. As has been the trend lately she came home much earlier than she used to, and again woke me up to tell me we aren't getting D, that she is sorry for her "one mistake", etc. She also asks more and more if I have a "girlfriend" during these drunk conversations; I assume this is because she sees my optimistic and lighthearted behavior after weeks/months of being down in the dumps and is trying to explain the change. For my part I validated her ("I know this is difficult, I hear you about that" etc) but mostly just said "I would be happy to talk to you about this over coffee tomorrow", which of course doesn't happen. Per DB guidelines I am not bringing up the MR and waiting for her to do it while sober. As a guy who wants to take the lead this is difficult but I am going to trust the process, focus on my 180s and be patient.
Speaking of 180s, I do feel very good about the streak I'm on! The biggest difference in my behavior is that I don't act butt hurt or mopey the next day about how drunk she was, I just do my own thing. In previous years I would get very down in the dumps on weekends when she was going out: give her the silent treatment, bring up our lack of a SL, and just be a wet blanket in general. It has taken YEARS for me to fully understand how unattractive this is from the female perspective but I'm finally there thanks in large part to the boards. Sandi's discussions on here about being "confident and breezy" (paraphrasing) is often on my mind. And of course this is all for me, not for the sake of fooling her into seeing the value of staying in the MR. The more I internalize these behaviors the more my W feels like an anchor on the life I could otherwise have: she isn't trustworthy, very selfish, and is not any kind of real partner. As much as my 180 has been a change, she has very deep seated behaviors that would require massive work to turn around if she wants to stay married and my expectations remain at zero.
Have you set a date where you terminate the marriage of her behavior doesn’t change?
I haven't. Given that some thought I'd say June 1 which would be 10 months after Dday and give us the summer to prepare and minimize the disruption to the kids during the school year.
I am happy w the way I handled the rest of the weekend. W continues to bring up the impossibility of D when she is drinking, and claims I am overreacting to "one stupid mistake". I normally don't engage but Saturday night I did, telling her that the trust is broken and that is no small thing. I pointed out the acts of disrespect outside of the PA itself which she claims she was doing "to rile you up". (One thing I've learned in the last couple years is about women "testing" their men, but testing and disrespect are different and I won't allow her to reframe old episodes of disrespect that way.)
To be honest these conversations are making it difficult to determine the path forward: it's clear my W is completely reluctant to D but I am also unwilling to continue in the MR unless she demonstrates an understanding of how broken the trust is. It also doesn't help that we only have these talks when she is drunk.
Tuesday there is a dinner party with 4 couples we used to spend time with, and I told my wife I wouldn't attend. I know she is apprehensive about the way this will look and I overheard her asking a friend on the phone what to say. "Should I just tell everyone he has a work function?" etc. Also, Christmas Eve is coming up and as discussed here I will not be attending with her family at our house. It's very tempting at this point to backtrack and call a truce so I can be with my kids that evening but I know the 180 is about being consistent and congruent.
Have you set a date where you terminate the marriage of her behavior doesn’t change?
I haven't. Given that some thought I'd say June 1 which would be 10 months after Dday and give us the summer to prepare and minimize the disruption to the kids during the school year.
I am happy w the way I handled the rest of the weekend. W continues to bring up the impossibility of D when she is drinking, and claims I am overreacting to "one stupid mistake". I normally don't engage but Saturday night I did, telling her that the trust is broken and that is no small thing. I pointed out the acts of disrespect outside of the PA itself which she claims she was doing "to rile you up". (One thing I've learned in the last couple years is about women "testing" their men, but testing and disrespect are different and I won't allow her to reframe old episodes of disrespect that way.)
To be honest these conversations are making it difficult to determine the path forward: it's clear my W is completely reluctant to D but I am also unwilling to continue in the MR unless she demonstrates an understanding of how broken the trust is. It also doesn't help that we only have these talks when she is drunk.
Tuesday there is a dinner party with 4 couples we used to spend time with, and I told my wife I wouldn't attend. I know she is apprehensive about the way this will look and I overheard her asking a friend on the phone what to say. "Should I just tell everyone he has a work function?" etc. Also, Christmas Eve is coming up and as discussed here I will not be attending with her family at our house. It's very tempting at this point to backtrack and call a truce so I can be with my kids that evening but I know the 180 is about being consistent and congruent.
One of the things I did with my drop dead date was I put it into my signature. That way at the end of every one of my posts I was reminded that "I have picked 1/4/2019 as the drop-dead date. If she isn't fully committed back to the marriage by that date, I will go file for divorce." (That was 1 year after BD, but the first Monday everyone was back to work from the holidays.)
Maturin, June 1st isn't a date you say one time and forget. It is a date that you actually work towards. The beauty of it is that it gives you a date that you know you will move forward past limbo. Light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. Otherwise, it feels never ending (and in some situations it is never-ending!)
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Maturin, June 1st isn't a date you say one time and forget. It is a date that you actually work towards. The beauty of it is that it gives you a date that you know you will move forward past limbo. Light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. Otherwise, it feels never ending (and in some situations it is never-ending!)
Thanks Steve. Reminds me of one of Sandi's posts in which she said something to the effect of "A WW will fight against any deadline and wait until the 11th hour to change" (paraphrasing). Which is why we keep these deadlines to ourselves I suppose, like so much else in the DB process.
One vignette from the weekend I wanted to share: the news of the PA is out among a small group of our family and close friends (W is more responsible for this than I am, as she is confiding in certain girlfriends). One of these friends was over late on Saturday night and she, W and I sat up having a nightcap after attending separate holiday parties that night. I didn't realize this friend knew about what was going on until my W slipped and made a comment, to which this friend replied, "Ok, I have to say this. You're absolutely crazy if you think Maturin is going to put up with this cr@p! Do you know how many single women would want him? If you're gonna act like this just give him to the rest of us!"
On the one hand it was nice to hear that but on the other hand it put my W into defensive mode as the guilt washed over her. She spent the rest of the evening in an argumentative and bitter mood. I am sharing this story because as part of my 180 I'm trying to better understand how this all impacts my W and how she feels about herself, because her feelings are her reality. I so badly want to break through the distance between us but I know the old MR is dead, and whatever new MR we are going to have will need to be built together.
God bless this friend! That's the kind of thing that WASs need to hear. Unfortunately, that friend may get cut off. WASs, and WSs in particular, tend to try to surround themselves with enablers, and cut anyone out of their lives that isn't that.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
