New User - My Story

[Maturin]

Just found this quote from one of Sandi's old posts that is helpful:

"The H needs to make her WORK to get him back, and one night of sex isn't work for her. Work for her is getting her heart right, ending her wayward ways, start showing respect and devotion to her H & family, behaving like a decent woman, and apologize with a broken heart for everything she has done to her H and the destruction she's caused. That's the real work. And trust me, it is not sudden. It is not going to be one of these overnight things. Coming out of waywardness is not a quickie for most women. It is painful, and part of her pain should be remorse she feels, not some self-centered pity party she's having."

So it seems like agreeing to attend a dinner party and acting as if everything is fine in our MR is allowing my W to eat cake: she's disrespectful and cruel when drunk but gets the upside of a husband when it comes time to socialize. Looks like I'm telling her no dice on the dinner.

[Boat14]

My intuition is to say no. I want to tell her, "That sounds fun and I would love to go, but I won't spend time with someone who spoke to me the way you did on Friday." How does that sound? I can see her reaction in my mind now: she'll bristle, tell me I'm too uptight, roll her eyes, and probably say something mean.

The correct answer is "sorry I have plans" but make sure you have plans.

And another question: in order to bust a D it would seem someone in my situation needs to re-attract my W while she also comes to a place of remorse strong enough to begin reconciling. A big dynamic would be spending time together so you can allow for attraction to emerge again. But right now there is so much disrespect that I can't bring myself to spend time with her, it doesn't seem appropriate. But the order should be to re-establish respect and then attraction, correct? Is this what is meant by being patient with the DB process?

You gain respect by not putting up with her BS and having your own fun fulfilling life.

[SteveLW]

One small adjustment. Don't say sorry, just say "I already have plans"

No need to apologize for it

[Maturin]

Thanks Steve and Boat. The dinner is on a weeknight and I would rather just stay in and spend time w the kids because I get up very early for work. I know DB is about GAL and I have done a lot of that (W is even commenting on how much I get out). I don't want to be the sitter every time she's out but in this case I want to be w the kids. So rather than "I already have plans" I'm inclined to say "I'd like to but I can't, I'll stay here w the kids." Thoughts?

[Terapin]

Thanks Steve and Boat. The dinner is on a weeknight and I would rather just stay in and spend time w the kids because I get up very early for work. I know DB is about GAL and I have done a lot of that (W is even commenting on how much I get out). I don't want to be the sitter every time she's out but in this case I want to be w the kids. So rather than "I already have plans" I'm inclined to say "I'd like to but I can't, I'll stay here w the kids." Thoughts?

If that's the case: "I can't, I'll stay with the kids." Leave out the 'I'd like to'

[Boat14]

Totally up to you. The point I was trying to make was for you to turn this around you need to be more than they guy who looks after the kids while she is out partying it up.

[DnJ]

Good Morning M

You are correct, W has a lot of work to do, and needs to find, feel, and demonstrate a good dose of true remorse. That takes a lot of time and space for her to find.

A big part of DB is what are you doing during this time? Good divorce busting is you living your best life. Being busy. Moving forward. Letting her run to catch up. If/when she chooses to.

DB certainly has some influence upon our spouse, yet it’s more influencing/altering ourselves. How we interact, what we’ll put up with and/or no longer put up with. Knowing one’s convictions; the real core ones. Not the hill you’re willing to die on, the bigger one you’re willing to live for! Dying for one’s beliefs is easy, standing and living for them is yes, difficult; and very much worth it.

My intuition is to say no. I want to tell her, "That sounds fun and I would love to go, but I won't spend time with someone who spoke to me the way you did on Friday." How does that sound? I can see her reaction in my mind now: she'll bristle, tell me I'm too uptight, roll her eyes, and probably say something mean.

I think you have her reaction spot on if you said that. And that confrontation is not very helpful.

A word on boundaries. You seem/sound to be utilizing them in an effort to change W. Boundaries are for you. To protect your mental and emotional health. They are not a tactic, nor a mechanism to manipulate or alter or control or coerce W’s behaviour.

From the above, bringing up her conversation from Friday as a reasoning for today’s behaviour from you is not a boundary. Boundaries are about timing too.

Boundaries are your predetermined action you will enact when W behaves disrespectfully. Action you will enact then and there. Not in some attempt to get her to change, or even to get her to stop. It is to remove yourself from her disrespectful behaviour.

Most who have boundaries enforced get it and alter their behaviours accordingly. Of course, they will test and run against that rock solid wall a few times just to see if there are any cracks or weakness.

Now, boundaries question. It goes without saying that I will not be in a MR or any R with someone who talks down to me the way she did last night. I would like to tell her, "Listen, I won't be spoken to the way you talked to me last night." But as others have said, boundaries are actions. So is the right move to just say nothing, and next time leave the bed to sleep elsewhere? I am trying to walk the path of positive, confident, and disengaged husband.

A few thing/thoughts:

“Not being in a relationship” boundary is too broad and far reaching. Narrow it down to more specific behaviour and specific enforcement. Also, you have kids and likely will be in a relationship with her for a good long while. So, you are going to need better accurate language to flesh out your boundary. (My XW tossed me and the kids aside like trash. With me having sole custody and such, XW and I had and have zero relationship.)

Boundaries are about actions. Yet, one should, and usually does, state the boundary beforehand. As you know, and as your IC has advised, don’t have meaningful and/or important conversation with W when she is drunk, angry, or otherwise emotionally compromised. In fact, the best time to clearly state your boundary is when the iron is cold, not in the heat of the moment. When the iron is glowing hot, is when you follow through with your actions, as words seldom permeate such an emotional fog.

“Listen, I won't be spoken to the way you talked to me last night." I’d alter this to make it less confrontational and clearer.

Something like:

W, when you are inebriated and/or angry, like Friday night, you speak rather disrespectfully towards me. I do not deserve such treatment and will no longer tolerate it. Going forward, when you attack and disrespect me, call me names, try to berate me, and so on, I am simply going to end the conversation.

I’m pretty sure, she will test your resolve. Be strong. Remove yourself from her vicinity when you can when she starts up like that. Now, some late night, her jumping upon you, tirade is a difficult one. Do not make it habit or common pratice for you to leave the master bedroom. You might have to go get a drink of water, go to the bathroom, leave her while you watch some TV. Yet basically, ignore her BS, roll over and go to back to sleep. She can use the couch.

Waking hours have more options and it is easier to remove oneself from such antics.

Hang in there M.

D

[Maturin]

Thanks DnJ, and everyone else. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of you taking the time here. I'm finding the last several days to be very difficult and I'm feeling discouraged - I was hoping to be beyond some of the deep sadness by this point.

In fact, the best time to clearly state your boundary is when the iron is cold, not in the heat of the moment. When the iron is glowing hot, is when you follow through with your actions, as words seldom permeate such an emotional fog.

Very helpful and so true.

(My XW tossed me and the kids aside like trash. With me having sole custody and such, XW and I had and have zero relationship.)

I just want to say that's awful, D. I know it was long ago but I'm sorry you had to experience that.

[DnJ]

For the upcoming party invite, I like “I have plans”. And do have plans.

The dinner is on a weeknight and I would rather just stay in and spend time w the kids because I get up very early for work.

Sounds like you did/do have plans.

By the way, most weeknight get togethers we brought the kids. Your’s at 5, 6, and 8 can certainly entertain themselves unattended for a while. I’m guessing the inviting friends do not have kids, otherwise it be a get together for them as well.

D

[Ready2Change]

W just told me that some friends invited us to dinner next week and she asked if I wanted to come, and should she get a sitter.

"I'll stay with the kids." Leave out the 'I'd like to'

I Agree.

I assume you are speaking to her in person about this. Tone, inflection, facial expression, body language are very important.

This is how I would state it :"I'll stay with the kids. You go and have a great time."


Your intention is to communicate that staying home with the kids will be a great time. Nothing else could be better, but she is free to go find that out.