1. When she disclosed her PA or now when she is currently drunk and acting WW, has she shared anything with you about why she did these things, or what she felt she has been missing from you or the M. I love you but I'm not into you? Or anger and resentments?
Anger and resentments, for sure. She claims a combination of COVID isolation with three young kids and my not hearing and understanding her drove her to the A. The other guy came on strong and gave her constant attention ("which felt really good" according to her) and after a particular disagreement between us, she decided to go for it. In retrospect I can clearly see how I failed to meet her emotional needs, explaining how she was wrong about certain concerns she raised instead of listening/validating, etc. It does not excuse her actions but its been helpful for my recovery to understand what happened. In subsequent years I was critical of her and judgmental which further pushed her away.
What are her love languages? Did you meet them? Does she want you to meet them now?
I need to work on this to get a better understanding of her LL. Does she want me to meet them now? I don't know.
What are ways you have not met them or hurt her in the past?
Her perception is that I have prioritized my FOO over her for our entire marriage. This has been at the root of all of her concerns and she has gone as far as to describe it as the original betrayal ("you betrayed me first") when defending her A. While I disagree with that as reality, I understand that it was her perception and that by dismissing it I made her feel unheard.
Her waywardness is her seeking her own happiness (albeit in a selfish way). Spend a lot of time on thinking on this. It is key for you to understand her motives for being wayward so that you can 180 on target and better meet her emotional needs if you can draw her to be less wayward.
This is a very insightful comment, I will give it some thought. My initial reaction is that she is reconnecting with the fun, attractive, and carefree person she was before marriage, kids, and commitment. Up until now I have seen this as immature and selfish, but after reading your comment I realize that our MR must have lacked that element and she sought it elsewhere. I will read up on the books you mentioned.
What would it take for you to trust her again? For you to be vulnerable to her again? For you to act lovingly towards her, meet her needs, and date her, despite feelings of resentment or hurt? What can you change in yourself to get there?
I would need to see earnest change on her part. A recognition of how harmful her behavior has been and complete remorse over the A. What can I change in myself? Learning how to walk the path towards forgiveness and becoming more confident in myself as a man.
Does she sleep in the marital bed when she comes home from partying all night? Is she spending share marital resources on her outings? Is there anything you do for her that enables this lifestyle for her or rescues her from the consequences of her actions?
Yes, she sleeps in the marital bed and occasionally on the couch if she stays out very late. Granted this has not happened since DDay; she still drinks but does not stay out as late. I have not cut her off financially but I have stopped helping her deal with the after effects of going out (no more rides to pick up her car, no more keeping the kids quiet so mom can sleep in).
The holidays have put a wrench in a lot of this, because I have decided to pause the conversation in general so we limit conflict during this special time of year. This is for my kids' sake. Nonetheless I am making myself scarce and virtually unavailable as H.
You shouldn't pause thebconversation for the holidays. You should pause the conversation for all days. You can't talk your way out of what you acted your way into. Talking doesn't work. In fact, talking works against you.
So on Jan 2nd, do not resume the conversation. Instead, starting today focus on your new behaviors. LBSs talk to their WAS/WS entirely too much. Don't fall into that trap.
Last edited by SteveLW; 12/06/2303:11 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yesterday was a good day. I found myself feeling more optimistic, making progress in the detachment process (it felt less painful to be in W's physical presence, for lack of a better description of detachment), and I had more great connection with my kids. W is still seeking to engage and when she does I am cordial and upbeat but make sure to end the conversation quickly. I said "no" to a request she made and wasn't swayed by her reaction (huffed and stormed off).
But today has been "one of those days", which I am learning is to be expected. I am dwelling on "what could have been" and on what her life will be like post-D - she'll likely date sooner that me, retain certain friends that I'll then lose, etc. I recognize this kind of thinking is the exact opposite of detachment/opening the cage door so I'm using the thought-stopping process and it's helped. I'm also focused on taking action today to divert my attention: I have an IC session, busy work day, then a workout planned. And of course more fun this evening with my kids.
Overall I continue to train my brain in the process of detaching and thinking about my sitch objectively. When I'm doing that well I feel a real shift in my attitude: as I gain clarity it turns into confidence that I can have a much better life. And even though I know there will be days like today, I appreciate the value of the baby steps.
Hi Maturin - It sounds like you're doing a good job of dealing with "one of those days". The interaction with your W also sounds like one for the "win" column (not that it is a competition - just a win for you). I'm glad you're practicing thought-stopping too. We can "what if" ourselves to death. If we could accurately predict the future, we'd likely all be richer and not in marital conflicts LOL. One thing I've found helpful that you may too is to map out the three to five things you want your life to be like in the future - setting W aside. If you're happy, what will that look like? What specific steps will you have to take to get there? I'm baby-stepping much like you but am starting to see decisions I made for ME over the last few months already start to unfold in positive ways at work, with friends, and with family. I hope you find that suggestion useful. Take care, MrP.
Thanks MrP. I'm glad to hear your positive changes have been paying off, that's where I want to be in a few months as well. Keep it up!
I spent Thanksgiving with my W's extended family as we do each year, primarily because I wanted to be with my kids and my FOO was away. No plans were made for Christmas until this past weekend when my wife asked if she could host her family at our house on Christmas Eve. I responded that it was fine with me and I hadn't discussed plans with my family yet. For the last 5-8 years our two extended families have always celebrated Christmas Eve together but that is not the plan now (just another example of the wide-ranging collateral damage of an A).
Bear with me while I think through this. Much of the DB approach for a H in my position revolves around taking away the support, familiarity, and overall presence of a husband - he wakes up to the reality of his stich, finds his b@lls and reasserts himself. This benefits the H because he regains a sense of himself, his self confidence, and his identity outside of the MR. It benefits the W because she gets a taste of life w/o the H and can decide if she truly wants out of the MR as her actions have suggested she does. Mix in time, patience, and consistency and eventually there is a resolution: D or R.
Christmas is a special time and I want to be with my kids as much as possible. However I don't want to backslide and demonstrate to my wife that I am reliable plan B who will diligently BBQ prime rib and wash dishes while we entertain her family. It seems to be the obvious plan of action should be for me to spend Christmas eve w my family. My concern is that I articulate this to her in a way that does not seem sulky/butt hurt, but rather comes across as positive per the DB approach. But no matter how you slice it, there doesn't appear to be a way to say "I am not going to spend Christmas eve with you and your family" that doesn't sound vindictive.
Can anyone who has gone through something similar make suggestions as to how I approach this situation?
When the A came to light and your W's crap partying behavior continued, how did you communicate that you were not ok with either of these and that she was still crossing your boundaries? How did/do you act to enforce that it does not work for you to be in a relationship with a WAW doing these things?
In the past, say month, how many times has she kept crossing your boundaries vis-a-vis the partying behavior or other core violations of your marital boundaries? Not acting like the wife you need her to be? What are the natural consequences or outcomes of her doing so?
I asked you what you needed her to do in order for you to begin to regain trust in her. You shared that you would need to see earnest change on her part.' and also that she [recognize how harmful her behavior has been and have complete remorse over the A]. How did you tell her this? Is she doing these things daily?
Do you have a boundary of something like, 'i will not be in a relationship with someone who does not respect my boundaries or acts to keep or regain my trust'? (If not, why not?) What is she doing right now to try to regain your trust in these ways? What natural consequences does she experience when she daily does not act the way you need her to in order to begin to regain your trust?
Some of DB is also boundary enforcement. An LBS without boundaries can keep losing respect. Because otherwise the WAW learns that you do not value yourself and are weak and afraid. Unattractive. She can choose to act differently every day.
She is cake eating if she expects you to be around slicing up prime rib on Xmas Eve with her family and without your family while she continues her wayward behaviors that led to this estrangement. Don't butcher yourself and your boundaries.
W, as much as I would have loved to spend the holidays with you and your family, I can't go there. Because I wouldn't be being honest with myself when you keep not doing the things I need you to do to begin to regain my trust. I have other plans to spend time with my family on Christmas Eve, and I am looking forward to spending time with the kids these holidays. Let's come up with a schedule around that.
Last edited by bustorama; 12/07/2304:38 PM.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
However I don't want to backslide and demonstrate to my wife that I am reliable plan B who will diligently BBQ prime rib and wash dishes while we entertain her family.
She knows your plan B, well in reality more like plan Z. WWs have a sixth sense and know when a LBS is really starting to detach. That's when the games begin.
When the A came to light and your W's crap partying behavior continued, how did you communicate that you were not ok with either of these and that she was still crossing your boundaries? How did/do you act to enforce that it does not work for you to be in a relationship with a WAW doing these things?
At the time I told her I wanted a D and that no more drinking/partying was to happen at the house. She has respected that. She is still going out occasionally and I have not re-iterated the boundaries, primarily because we just weren't speaking much before I discovered DR. Frankly my attitude was "I have communicated these boundaries many times and she continues to violate them, I am focused on moving on."
Originally Posted by bustorama
In the past, say month, how many times has she kept crossing your boundaries vis-a-vis the partying behavior or other core violations of your marital boundaries? Not acting like the wife you need her to be? What are the natural consequences or outcomes of her doing so?
In the past month, I'd say once per weekend she is ignoring the family in favor of drinking w others. The natural consequences are that I have removed my time and attention as a husband, but I sense that this is actually nice for her: the monkey is off her back, so to speak.
Originally Posted by bustorama
I asked you what you needed her to do in order for you to begin to regain trust in her. You shared that you would need to see earnest change on her part.' and also that she [recognize how harmful her behavior has been and have complete remorse over the A]. How did you tell her this? Is she doing these things daily?
I have not told her this. I have not articulated a path towards reconciliation for her and at this point I don't know that it would be productive. In the weeks following the bomb I asked her two simple questions about the A and she refused to answer, saying that it would not help. If she can't/won't answer a basic question right now I don't see how setting ground rules for R makes sense. Can you help me with that? My W really, really does not want to "talk" about anything and bristles when I attempt to bring anything up. While that's been a challenge I have made progress: I am no longer afraid of her reactions and can move beyond her bad attitude more quickly now.
Originally Posted by bustorama
Do you have a boundary of something like, 'i will not be in a relationship with someone who does not respect my boundaries or acts to keep or regain my trust'? (If not, why not?) What is she doing right now to try to regain your trust in these ways? What natural consequences does she experience when she daily does not act the way you need her to in order to begin to regain your trust?
My boundary even prior to DR was "I will not be in a relationship with someone who is acting single". This was even before I found out about the A and only had suspicions of inappropriate behavior. When I said this in the past W would always respond that I was being controlling and needed to back off "and let me live my life". In keeping with the DR process I am looking for baby steps and I will say that she is not staying out as late or being directly disrespectful. The natural consequences she is experiencing are that I am not spending time with her, going out with her, or attending functions with her. I think this is a little embarrassing for her but it has not changed her behavior significantly.
Originally Posted by bustorama
She is cake eating if she expects you to be around slicing up prime rib on Xmas Eve with her family and without your family while she continues her wayward behaviors that led to this estrangement. Don't butcher yourself and your boundaries.
W, as much as I would have loved to spend the holidays with you and your family, I can't go there. Because I wouldn't be being honest with myself when you keep not doing the things I need you to do to begin to regain my trust. I have other plans to spend time with my family on Christmas Eve, and I am looking forward to spending time with the kids these holidays. Let's come up with a schedule around that.
However I don't want to backslide and demonstrate to my wife that I am reliable plan B who will diligently BBQ prime rib and wash dishes while we entertain her family.
She knows your plan B, well in reality more like plan Z. WWs have a sixth sense and know when a LBS is really starting to detach. That's when the games begin.
This is the kind of reply that keeps my fire lit. The thought of her going out and partying for three years with the comfort of the lifestyle I provide and the stability of a MR; the idea that she had a PA and kept it to herself and a few others while I was in the dark; the fact that I was spinning my wheels trying to improve the MR while she did zero work and bathed in all the upside - it fires me up. I've been taken advantage of for years and the only path forward now is in detachment. If she wants to preserve the MR she is going to have to work for it and even then I'm not sure I want to go through the next 40 years with this person.
