Not been an easy journey that's for sure here. But one I have to travel nevertheless.
The fact that the journey is not easy is how you grow. If you say to yourself "I never want this to happen to me again and I will do everything in my power to ensure even if it does happen again I will be fine". That is when you come through to the other side. It's a long road but you will get there.
Originally Posted by dleague
Time will tell how this plays out. in the meantime I have to do my thing and cant stress about what I cant control. Just need to take it one day at a time and keep my head and emotions in check and don't respond with emotions, just logic.
the connection between my happiness and being with her. Have a hard time disconnecting when it feels like things are going good in conversation and she lets herself be vulnerable. But in the end she is still full steam ahead and pushing things to get done. I have to figure out how to break that cycle and what that looks like. I struggle with that. How do you disconnect????
Originally Posted by dleague
She talks about the struggles she is going to encounter when she is going to be living on her own. Just lots of ways. How she has to harbor money from the divorce because she is worried she may get sick again and be out of work. She talked again tonight about how she hates her job and has to figure out what her options are there. She knows damn well that she had the option to stay with me and she wouldnt even have to work or worry about medical or financial things. She is heading down this winding road as fast as she can in an 18 wheeler. As someone who cares for her, it’s tough to watch because I do want to protect her. But trying to come to terms with that I need to let her fall before she realizes things. Hell she may not even come back then as stubborn as she is. But that cant be my priority and I struggle with it not being because of the connection. How do I break that so I dont care or try to stop it???
I’m happy to speak to detaching, detachment, and indifference as it relates to one’s spouse and these situations.
Also, here is a link to some detachment info the welcoming thread:
Detachment is when one is no longer uncontrollably emotionally dragged around by their spouse’s words and/or behaviours. One still feels. The detachment part is that their feelings are no longer “uncontrollable”.
With detachment, one can better exert their own influence upon their emotional state and thus postpone that which once would’ve simply overwhelmed. Do realize, it’s postpone. Scheduling a convenient time, in a safe space, to feel and healthily express those feelings is a critical part of detaching and working towards indifference.
Indifference is when one’s emotions and feelings towards their spouse are not marked by any particular liking or disliking. There is a numbness, a quietness, a calm, where once there was a cacophony of feelings and fret. A caution, nature abhors a vacuum. Other feelings, especially temptations, will loom much larger than they truly are against the void, against that absence of feelings towards one’s spouse.
Indifference, like all feelings, is temporary. It does unwind. Those old feelings do return. The advice that decisions based upon emotions, or lack thereof, leads to regret is most germane. Embrace this emotional limbo and remember doing nothing is doing something.
Indifference provides a calm and peace. This is the time, free of the noise and pressure of one’s spouse, to delve within and discover oneself. Discover one’s beliefs, values, and convictions. Strengthen that which serves, craft that which one aspires to, and alter or discard that which does not serve.
With clear definitions you have already embarked on your detachment path. Accuracy.
Be accurate in thought and heart. This is one of the main components along your journey. Striving to see and be accurate requires a rational, logical, and reasoned approach. Being dragged about emotionally is best reined in with intellect and rationalizing. Fear, withdrawal, and such also benefit from such logic and reasoning. Those tenets are an LBS’ sword and shield, to cleave our irrational ties and defend against triggers. Intellect is sans emotions, and directly controllable, keep your sword sharp and your shield brightly polished.
Control. You only control your thoughts, actions, and reactions. Through those you can influence your emotions, and the world and people around you. See this accurately. Realize the extent of your direct control and where influence takes over.
We all live on four paths, or lanes on life’s highway. The lanes being intellectual, physical, emotional, and spiritual. In each of these lanes is a car of our’s. The place, direction, and speed of us in that particular realm.
The intellectual realm is that of reason, logic, and rationalization. It is pure intellect, devoid of emotions. This realm is directly controllable, our thoughts.
The physical realm is our actions and reactions. Again this is within our direct control. It is here we can turn thoughts in actions.
The emotional realm is a subconscious place. Emotions and feelings are born and die here. This is not directly controllable. Yet it is subject to influences, both internal and external.
An example, smile. Right now. A nice big smile. Turn the corners of your lips up, and show a bit of teeth too.
Now, frown. A real deep pouting frown. Lips pursed downward, even furrow your brow.
Ok, back to normal resting.
See how you felt happy while smiling? How you felt sad/angry when frowning?
Physical actions, the physical car, influences your emotional state. You can’t help but feel happy-ish while smiling.
And your emotional state influences your thoughts and actions. You can’t really smile while deeply depressed. It like trying to frown and smile at the same time.
Likewise, thoughts are both influenced and exert influence upon you emotional state.
Be accurate in thought and heart. See and rationalize accurately. Promote positive healthy thoughts and actions. This effort is cumulative. Slowly, over time your consistent efforts alter your emotional landscape, by altering the fabric of your subconscious.
Accuracy and consistency are both critical. It’s why we encourage folks to stick to the path. Yes, it’s very counterintuitive, and it works.
We are not robot, and we still get triggered, and our subconscious realm still pushes and pulls. Consider dreams, the organizing and cataloging of our day and our thoughts and emotions. Mix in a late night pizza, and wow! Some wild dreams.
However, our conscious self gets better and better at self control and therefore self influence. Which in effect promotes better “control” of our subconscious self.
As you can see, there is quite a web of control and influence between and amongst our various realms. Let’s bring in the spiritual path, realm, lane. This path is fully subconscious. It’s the landscape, the realm of your deep convictions and beliefs. The principles and tenets that make you, you.
The spiritual path, influences everything. Your deeply held values do lead you. Lead your intellect, physical actions, and very much influence your emotions.
Strengthening, crafting, and discarding such deeply held beliefs take consistent effort and time. That consistent effort is your intellect and physical activity, both within your control. Consistent thoughts and GAL in a positive healthy direction will lead to those desirable results and changes in convictions.
Let’s discuss speed for a moment.
Feelings are fleeting. Unless reinforced. To demonstrate, you can image someone saying something so awful to you that you’d be appalled. A sudden emotional reaction to such a stimulus. Perfectly normal. Emotions are born from within the subconscious.
That feeling left alone, not reinforced, will extinguish in minutes. For a really troubling stimulus extinguishing could be upwards of 30 minutes. Basically, any range beyond that, and either the trigger is still present and/or not dealt with, or you are reinforcing your emotions.
Be accurate in thought and heart.
Your emotions are your’s. No one is responsible for how you feel. They are responsible and accountable for their actions and words. And how you react or act, is upon you. This is good, for you control (and influence) you. Therefore, you cannot be emotionally dragged around.
Speed. Likewise your thoughts can be highjacked. The aforementioned scenario of appalling words can also bring forth thoughts. Be accurate, these thoughts are derived from your emotions/emotional reaction. It’s akin to how smiling produced similar feelings. Pure intellect is sans emotions, so hateful, angry, sad, happy, joyful, etc thoughts are tied to emotions and/or beliefs. Encourage and reinforce the thoughts and emotions that benefit and serve you.
The spiritual path. Unlike emotions and thoughts, our beliefs are very slow to change. It’s this steadfastness, this near unchanging, that make them excellent life headings. However, one first has to truly discover their deeply held convictions, and organize them. Strengthen, craft, and discard. It is surprising how many preconception and prejudices we unrecognizingly built up over our lives and interactions.
After bomb drop our “cars” are all over the place.
Our emotional car is zooming along, just running flat out. Way ahead, then zoom! way behind. At times gone around the next curve in the road. Influence with thought and physical actions.
Our physical car is usually stuck out of gear. Engine revving away and going nowhere. We sit, directionless and motionless. Our fight or flight mechanism in full swing and us chock full of adrenaline. GAL is controllable, and gives those revs something to do. Sweating it out exerts influence upon that emotional car too.
Our intellectual car is the heart of “focus on you”. Logic and reason. Sword and shield. Everything you are efforting to accomplish, your healing, your growth, letting go, detaching, GAL, focus, withdrawal, not snooping, and so on; all is controlled or (mostly) influence here.
Our spiritual car is the least felt at BD. Everything was blown up. Who you believed your spouse was. Your definitions of family, love, faithful, vows, and so on; all questioned. So many doubts. Yet, in time, this all settles, and we do grow. This car and path yield the fruit of acceptance and forgiveness.
The realm of beliefs and those spiritual tenets is difficult to put into words or even feel. Words are the intellectual path. Feelings are the emotional path. Faith is the spiritual path. Faith, hope, standing, comes from deep within. An incredible wellspring of fortitude and strength.
When one has all four of their cars lined up side by side, and all travelling along the same heading and speed, there is peace and contentment.
I get that this is a large roadmap. The path you are on, life, is not about the destination, it’s about the journey.
This journey is traversed with each individual small step. Detachment is but one of the milestones along the path.
Be accurate in thought and heart. And do or do not, there is no try.
A couple of specific things from your quotes:
Focus on you. I complete get the need for a certain amount of understanding before one can/will let go. We all focus on our spouse at first. Focusing on you, is not about forgoing your spouse or forgoing rationalizing or forgoing finding understanding. It’s about ensuring you look after you.
Being accurate. The most powerful car at your disposal is your intellect. And the language of your intellect is words. Speak it well and accurately, for you are controlling and influencing yourself, be it intentional and known or not.
“But”. This word is often utilized in such a way that it reinforces an unrealized justification of a behaviour one knows is not helpful. Read your above quotes with removing the word but. It’s a small cumulative change, effect, step towards detachment.
Likewise, “try”. Try predisposes one to assign equal probability to both succeed and fail. That’s probability, not possibility. When one tries, they will attempt with both outcomes equally acceptable. Do or do not. Doing, will not guarantee success. It does setup one’s attempt and outlook better though.
Quote
As someone who cares for her, it’s tough to watch because I do want to protect her. But trying to come I am coming to terms with that I need to let her fall before she realizesmight realize things.
I also added “might” realize. Accuracy. No one can see all ends. She might, she might not.
The future is known and unwritten. Hope lives in the possibility. Do have faith.
You have the gift of time, use it wisely. Do live and love you life.
Have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
lots of good information and advice here!!! Appreciate this and the clarity it provides.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Detachment is when one is no longer uncontrollably emotionally dragged around by their spouse’s words and/or behaviours. One still feels. The detachment part is that their feelings are no longer “uncontrollable”.
With detachment, one can better exert their own influence upon their emotional state and thus postpone that which once would’ve simply overwhelmed. Do realize, it’s postpone. Scheduling a convenient time, in a safe space, to feel and healthily express those feelings is a critical part of detaching and working towards indifference.
Indifference is when one’s emotions and feelings towards their spouse are not marked by any particular liking or disliking. There is a numbness, a quietness, a calm, where once there was a cacophony of feelings and fret. A caution, nature abhors a vacuum. Other feelings, especially temptations, will loom much larger than they truly are against the void, against that absence of feelings towards one’s spouse.
This helps make sense of the 2. I feel at times I am detaching but not sure if I have reached the Indifference phase yet but feel like I am getting there at times. Lots of back and forth on this one still. Def take time to set aside to let emotions show and process those. on my time though and as needed. It has gotten better as the days have gone on.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Indifference, like all feelings, is temporary. It does unwind. Those old feelings do return. The advice that decisions based upon emotions, or lack thereof, leads to regret is most germane. Embrace this emotional limbo and remember doing nothing is doing something.
absolutely!!! lots of back and forth and agree that sometimes its better to be in limbo instead of reacting.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Be accurate in thought and heart. This is one of the main components along your journey. Striving to see and be accurate requires a rational, logical, and reasoned approach. Being dragged about emotionally is best reined in with intellect and rationalizing. Fear, withdrawal, and such also benefit from such logic and reasoning. Those tenets are an LBS’ sword and shield, to cleave our irrational ties and defend against triggers. Intellect is sans emotions, and directly controllable, keep your sword sharp and your shield brightly polished.
this I struggle with. Being an engineer by trade I am leaning towards being a problem solver. And that mentality of "fix it". I always look for logic and reasoning. This in case though doesnt fit those parameters. Its more emotional. I have never been and only learning now more about tapping into my emotional side and how those are effected and controlled. Still a learning process though. Its a daily tackle dealing with. Good days and bad days and some in the same day. I try to approach everything with logic and reasoning and this chaos doesnt apply.
Originally Posted by DnJ
See this accurately. Realize the extent of your direct control and where influence takes over.
still learning my controls and what triggers my reactions and how to notice those before being triggered.
Originally Posted by DnJ
We all live on four paths, or lanes on life’s highway. The lanes being intellectual, physical, emotional, and spiritual. In each of these lanes is a car of our’s. The place, direction, and speed of us in that particular realm.
This is very eye opening when you look back at your explanations!!! Never looked at life this way and was always a hard worker type of person and find a good woman to settle down with and enjoy the life you create. So when all of my "cars" were all over the place when BD, I didnt know how to react or process things. But lots of researching, self reflecting and using logic/reasoning has helped me understand. Not to mention the IC sessions. Its chaos when all the cars are not aligned heading in the same direction. And thats what happened here. Built a life and then it just came through like a wrecking ball. No warnings or slow progress. Just showed up and BD and then deal with it type of mentality.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Promote positive healthy thoughts and actions.
^^^ this is something I need to work on. Been down for the last few years with the stress of life and work and unhappy. This rolled over into my marriage. Creating the distance between us. The less I was in tune with us the worse it got. She has blame though as well but I own my part. I was always known as a negative thinker. I always considered it more of a realistic type of thinker. Now I see how unhealthy that was all along!!
Originally Posted by DnJ
The spiritual path, influences everything. Your deeply held values do lead you. Lead your intellect, physical actions, and very much influence your emotions.
learning more about this recently. What my core values are and how they need to be instilled. Lots of self reflecting and understanding more of myself. Considering starting a journal just to help keep track of things in my head and also have a visual to look back on.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Your emotions are yours. No one is responsible for how you feel. They are responsible and accountable for their actions and words. And how you react or act, is upon you. This is good, for you control (and influence) you. Therefore, you cannot be emotionally dragged around.
^^^ YES!!! learning more of this. Being more in tune with myself and understanding my reactions and what those look like helps. It was said back earlier that emotional reactions are short term and logical reactions are long term. I feel like this has helped me understand more and therefore realizing how I may react to something. And how I respond. Its interpretation of feelings.
Originally Posted by DnJ
However, one first has to truly discover their deeply held convictions, and organize them. Strengthen, craft, and discard. It is surprising how many preconception and prejudices we unrecognizingly built up over our lives and interactions.
yea realizing this more. Lots of built up things through the childhood years and then relationships along the way. Working through the process of understanding them and how they have affected my life and dealing with them so I can move forward instead of holding onto them and putting them on the back burner so to speak.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Our emotional car is zooming along, just running flat out. Way ahead, then zoom! way behind. At times gone around the next curve in the road. Influence with thought and physical actions.
How do you influence with thought and physical actions? I feel like you said its way out and then trailing behind. Still working on trying to get the emotions under control and back in their lane.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Sweating it out exerts influence upon that emotional car too.
Not sure if I understand this. I have been doing more GAL for sure. Sometimes I feel like it helps and other times I feel like it doesnt. Most of the friends I have enjoy more of the bar scene and that has never been my thing. So planning on getting more into some hobbies that align to things that I have been wanting to do and expand my friends list by that. I have good friends but the GAL isnt ideal for me. NOt sure if its because I have thoughts of the W still and dealing with that or what at this point.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Our spiritual car is the least felt at BD. Everything was blown up. Who you believed your spouse was. Your definitions of family, love, faithful, vows, and so on; all questioned. So many doubts. Yet, in time, this all settles, and we do grow. This car and path yield the fruit of acceptance and forgiveness.
Absolutely!! yea everything was blown up here. Everything I understood life to be and planned on and instilled in myself and our life together just went BOOM! SO trying to work on this during my self reflection.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Focus on you. I complete get the need for a certain amount of understanding before one can/will let go. We all focus on our spouse at first. Focusing on you, is not about forgoing your spouse or forgoing rationalizing or forgoing finding understanding. It’s about ensuring you look after you.
Yea I agree with you here DJ. Just trying to understand what brings me happiness. My happiness for many years revolved around being the person to be there for her and make sure she was happy. Neglecting myself without even knowing it. I was so fixated on her and her needs with her medical conditions that I lost track of myself along the way. This though will give me the push I need to find myself again and at my age (44), trying to figure out what that is. Trying to remain positive in thinking with new job incoming, being debt free and having the world in front of me at this point.
Originally Posted by DnJ
I also added “might” realize. Accuracy. No one can see all ends. She might, she might not.
The future is known and unwritten. Hope lives in the possibility. Do have faith.
agreed with you here. I feel her and I see her hurting. She is struggling with this decision but she feels its the right thing to do. She still throws out the possibility of us being together eventually. I am not sure if that will happen or not. I feel like I may be a different person if she wants back later on. I think this is good though as we both were fixated on each other and not really living our own lives and having our happiness. We both were stuck in a relationship rut so to speak and although things looked good on the outside, she was dealing with feelings and not expressing them and I was stuck in depression from life and work and just everything came crashing down. I realize that we both still have an attachment to each other. I realize we both are still attracted to each other. I realize we need to find our own happiness though and figure out our own lives and if we find our way back to each other then maybe it could work. That can not be the focus at this time though.
Thank you for the information and advice here D. It was very interesting to read and trying to understand it all at this time. Head is still cloudy from everything at times. So trying to open that up and reflect on myself and how I can become a better person out of this.
She is struggling with this decision but she feels its the right thing to do. D
What makes you think she is struggling?
Originally Posted by dleague
She still throws out the possibility of us being together eventually. D
This is standard WW script. Keeps you on the hook. In an essence she is saying "I am going to try out some other dudes. If I don't like them and you end up being a better option I will take you back". Does that sound appealing to you?
Originally Posted by dleague
I am not sure if that will happen or not. I feel like I may be a different person if she wants back later on. D
You 100% will be another person if you embrace this journey.
Originally Posted by dleague
I think this is good though as we both were fixated on each other and not really living our own lives and having our happiness. D
So you agree that D is the answer here?
Originally Posted by dleague
We both were stuck in a relationship rut so to speak and although things looked good on the outside, she was dealing with feelings and not expressing them and I was stuck in depression from life and work and just everything came crashing down. D
Yeah so that is when the "good times and in bad" part of the vows come into play. Not "until things get difficult".
Originally Posted by dleague
I realize that we both still have an attachment to each other. I realize we both are still attracted to each other. D
If she was attached to you and attracted to you she would not be leaving you.
Originally Posted by dleague
I realize we need to find our own happiness though and figure out our own lives and if we find our way back to each other then maybe it could work. D
Maybe but based on your expectations of D I think you may be in for a rude awakening.
Originally Posted by dleague
That can not be the focus at this time though. D
This is the only important thing you discussed. Take 100% of the focus off of her and place it on yourself and your daughter.
Just her actions and the way she has been softening up lately. She has opened up more on talking and explaining things and realizing the mess he is causing. NOt saying she is changing it but I can see how it is affecting her more now.
Originally Posted by Boat14
This is standard WW script. Keeps you on the hook. In an essence she is saying "I am going to try out some other dudes. If I don't like them and you end up being a better option I will take you back". Does that sound appealing to you?
NOt at all. If there is any other guy in the picture then that is a deal breaker for me. I may or may not find out later if things do somehow work out. The more she is gone the more I pull back and heal. Its a process and I understand that and find myself going through that. There will be a time when I wont even want her back.
Originally Posted by Boat14
So you agree that D is the answer here?
Dont necessarily want a D but feels like its heading that way. NOthing is going to stop or slow it down at this point. I have pulled back. I laid it all out in the beginning. She knows how I feel. She has gotten softer around her shell at times but still moving forward. We will see how this plays out. Im at the point that if the D happens then it does now. No point in trying to convince her to stay. More working on myself and being that focus and what I can do to improve my happiness.
Originally Posted by Boat14
Yeah so that is when the "good times and in bad" part of the vows come into play. Not "until things get difficult".
Agreed. Hell Im at the point of accepting the D. And if we do start over somewhere down the line things will be in fact alot different. I dont think we would ever get married again. But who knows what life will bring. Just take it one day at a time. Go through the healing process. Focus on myself and what I cant control. The rest is out of my control. I meant my vows. I still wear my ring because of that. When the day comes we sign our papers I will leave that ring on the table along with my signature.
Originally Posted by Boat14
If she was attached to you and attracted to you she would not be leaving you.
I see your point here and agree. She tries to come on to me all the time still now and cries about things one minute and then the next she is moving along. She is a mess right now. Work life is falling apart on her as well. Sounds like her boss isnt happy that we are going through a D because we are all friends and took many couples vacations with them because they didnt like going with others at least what they told us! She is contemplating quitting her job and everything now. Just a mess she is in. BUt she is pretty strong minded and strong willed. So I can see her holding her own on things. Not because she wants to but because she feels like she has to in order to save face and prove to herself that she needs to.
Originally Posted by Boat14
Maybe but based on your expectations of D I think you may be in for a rude awakening.
Yea def not something Im holding my breath about. She can work on herself and I work on myself. Who knows what the future holds. We may or may not find what we had again. If not then so be it. I am moving along with the assumption that it wont happen.
Originally Posted by Boat14
This is the only important thing you discussed. Take 100% of the focus off of her and place it on yourself and your daughter.
Absolutely true here Boat! That has been my focus for sure. And getting this house packed up. Never realize how much you build and accumulate together until you have to go through it all and pack it. I think that helps in the detachment though for myself mentally and emotionally. Piece by piece this house/life we built comes down figuratively . And I wont build another. Selling all the things that made that happen and focusing more on what I want and what makes me happy at this point.
