Hi Rock - I've been re-reading DB and DR, as well as some of the early posts MWD herself responded to. I wonder, can you recall any times when the two of you did communicate well? If so, why do you think it went well? Can you replicate that success? There is a great post where MWD says the trick isn't so much to detach, go dark, and other strategies specifically so much as to 1) know what doesn't work and 2) experiment by doing something different. Lots of the same principles apply (keep it brief, positive, not pursuing, and so forth). I agree with Boat that, at some point, you may over-use empathy or validation and not move on to finding solutions in terms of healthy or productive communications (from your perspective, for your well-being, and your overall good). It is tough. How WOULD you like communication to work between you?
From looking back at the books earlier today, more of what works seems to involve things that make interactions with your S more positive/effective. So, if talking about serious issues before bedtime tends to yield anxiety, frustration, etc. then try talking at another time. I'm using an overly simple example because even I am struggling with what works in my situation. What works might be Rock thinking about his values and preferences related to communication. Where does that align with hers? Where doesn't it? Where might they have to compromise? Looking back at examples where they've successfully communicated (the "exceptions" as MWD says) might help define what worked then and might work now. Ideally, it is a "win-win" that yields a productive discussion between the two of them while preserving Rock's integrity, boundaries, and overall well-being.
With a beginners mind and 180s and escaping cheeseless tunnels, be a detective and observe. Is this behaviour, approach having positive desired effect?
In my communication with W, for example, did I stand up for myself? Did I come away from it on track with where I am going? Is my way of living moving me closer to a happy, healthy life?
With a beginners mind and 180s and escaping cheeseless tunnels, be a detective and observe. Is this behavior, approach having positive desired effect?
So I think you copied and pasted this right out of the book.
I will try to simplify me question. You originally ignored her texts. She got mad and you told her you would communicate to her only by email. She threw a fit and you caved in and had a call. So right away that communicates to her you are not a man of your word and have weak to no boundaries. Does that bring you closer to your goal of reconciliation? If yes than I assume you are happy with the exchange. If no, than I assume that makes your STBXW happy because she does not want to reconcile right now and likely ever until something changes.
Ideally, it is a "win-win" that yields a productive discussion between the two of them while preserving Rock's integrity, boundaries, and overall well-being.
Again very simple. One productive phone conversation per week on Rock's time limited only to their special needs children. Positive interaction for the parents which will benefit the children in the long run.
Integrity - I put my children first Boundaries - I will only discuss the children in a positive and productive manner based on mutual respect for one another as parents. Well being - Positive interaction for the parents which will benefit the children in the long run.
W: "I can't communicate with you this way" R: How do you suggest we communicate? W: I want you to respond to my texts R: We have nothing to discuss other than the kids. I suggest we have a phone call once a week when I have time to discuss the kids.
Clear, direct and to the point.
This is definitely the best way to respond.
Rock, did you respond? IF so, exactly how did you you respond?
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
“ With a beginners mind and 180s and escaping cheeseless tunnels, be a detective and observe. Is this behavior, approach having positive desired effect?”
“So I think you copied and pasted this right out of the book.”
Boat, actually these are points I have been working on. I have been actively evaluating what I am doing in my life and making necessary changes. Yes I have a long road ahead.
“ I will try to simplify me question. You originally ignored her texts. She got mad and you told her you would communicate to her only by email. She threw a fit and you caved in and had a call. So right away that communicates to her you are not a man of your word and have weak to no boundaries. Does that bring you closer to your goal of reconciliation? If yes then I assume you are happy with the exchange. If no, then I assume that makes your STBXW happy because she does not want to reconcile right now and likely ever until something changes.”
I didn’t respond to her texts and didn’t answer her calls because there was no indication that she needed to talk about something urgently concerning our kids and it was not a good time for me to talk. I have been honoring myself and my needs while also respecting her request for space and her choices to not have me as her husband.
I did email her but I didn’t tell her I would only email. Email was unproductive for what she wanted to discuss and when it was a good time for me we ended up having a call. The call went well. I listened to her concerns (all valid and important) and responded responsibly with care. I didn’t try to fix her R with eldest D.
I recognize W has been taking steps to connect with D and she really has been investing much more in her R with youngest kids. Maybe since her “friendships” blew up, she is reconnecting. She started therapy last month. None of this means that she is making any steps towards R with me I get that.
Are any things I am doing bringing me closer to that goal? Maybe, it’s hard to tell. And will I want that with her, eventually if and when she tries? I don’t know, I can’t predict the future. And I don’t know how much longer I can do this. So I have to move forward healthy and detached.
I love her and desire to have a great M with her but we are a million miles apart. And I’m still working through my emotions and I don’t trust her. I need to be trustworthy and be able to trust myself. My personal integrity is vital.
I am trying to be as honest with myself as I can.
As you say, Boat:
Integrity - I put my children first Boundaries - I will only discuss the children in a positive and productive manner based on mutual respect for one another as parents. Well being - Positive interaction for the parents which will benefit the children in the long run.
R2C, I asked if she would like to have a follow up phone call to talk about our kids. She has actually emailed me a couple times this week and I responded briefly, clearly and politely.
