Yea I can get ahold of her phone if I wanted to and check things out. Would have to see though. She may not just let me have it like she did before. She used to when we were together. She does text while she is around me but has one of those privacy screens cause hers cracked and my daughter had a spare one. So i think I would have to time it while she is in the shower or something along those lines. SHe does still leave it lying around at times though. That will crush me I think more to find out if there is OP. But I feel like it may help me close the door easier. Plus it may have implications in the D with the lawyer.
Yeah I am not telling you to snoop. I am just saying how she treats her phone is typically a good indicator.
Dleague, It's a normal reaction to look for answers. Whether that's snooping, talking about R, or reading a bunch of books about the other person's actions or trauma... We would like to believe it will bring us comfort if we just know why our life imploded. Unfortunately it does not. It will take time and often mistakes to for you to also come to this conclusion. It's okay... this is a process... and all us vets made mistakes along the way.
You both contributed to the demise of your marriage. IMHO there are 3 really big questions to ask yourself that not only helps yourself but can also give you the best chance of mending a broken marriage.
1. In What ways did I not support my W?
From you own admission - that was by minimizing her feelings and dangling your relationship status when you are upset. Both are actions of a person who struggles at regulating his emotions. This is a behavior you can change w/o communicating to your wife that you plan on doing so. It can also be done whilst taking care of yourself and setting the appropriate boundaries.
2. In what ways did my wife not support me?
Thinking of of these things will help you create boundaries. It will help you recognize if you hold anger and resentment. It will help determine what your needs are and how to get those needs met in a relationship (whether its a new one or a recon)
3. In what ways did I not support myself?
This digs into a little bit of questions 1 and 2.. because living outside of our integrity is very harmful to us. If we aren't treating others or ourselves in a way that doesn't align with our values... we are betraying ourselves.
It also dips into areas of selfcare and GAL.
Also just to provide a different perspective than others... it's a REALLY big deal if your W was sick and an emotional response from you was to leave the marriage or similar childish responses. I've had that happen and it was very traumatic for me. Shattering something that has been very difficult to piece back together. To say your wife has trauma and it's her responsibility to deal with it is true... but if that is your response MORE than empathy in regards to this specific topic... you are missing the mark. See question #1
How you treat your wife and yourself from this day forward is your decision. You have been given a gift of knowledge that things in your life and marriage was not working. Use this gift wisely.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I’ll add, at its heart, it’s about shifting your focus from one’s spouse and all the wild ongoing on their situation.
When our lives blow up we all focus on our spouse. We turn our attention upon them, fully. Begging, pleading, clinging, grasping, watching for signs, and on and on. A pretty normal response. And with such focus, we invariably elevate our spouse.
When you place your spouse upon a pedestal, you are always looking up to them, and they are looking down at you.
What one focuses upon becomes larger.
Hence, focus on you and your kids. Focus on your life.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Understood. Kind of want to ask her again and if she says no then ask her if she would show me her phone. But like DnJ says, everything has consequences. If I want to try to reconcile this then maybe I shouldnt take it that far. If there is an OM then that will be revealed in time like DnJ says. I dont think there is honestly but hard to ignore some of the other stuff. Maybe it really is that she is just done and wants out. Maybe she has been hurt from the years and needs her space. She tells me her plans for the most part. She isnt being too cold on questions and conversations. So who knows. Def something im keeping an eye on though.
thank you for the insight here. Yea I feel myself slightly imploding here looking for answers.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
It's a normal reaction to look for answers. Whether that's snooping, talking about R, or reading a bunch of books about the other person's actions or trauma... We would like to believe it will bring us comfort if we just know why our life imploded. Unfortunately it does not. It will take time and often mistakes to for you to also come to this conclusion. It's okay... this is a process... and all us vets made mistakes along the way.
I feel myself imploding here looking for answers. Just still shocked over the whole thing. Losing my W, our house, rebuilding, splitting our dogs up, splitting our kids up and everything in this beautiful life we built together. Im not going snooping. I am just following my heart. My head has gotten me into this somewhat being more logical than emotional.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
1. In What ways did I not support my W?
From you own admission - that was by minimizing her feelings and dangling your relationship status when you are upset. Both are actions of a person who struggles at regulating his emotions. This is a behavior you can change w/o communicating to your wife that you plan on doing so. It can also be done whilst taking care of yourself and setting the appropriate boundaries.
Yea I really messed up here and dropped the ball. I have told her that there are no amount of apologies that can take back the pain from the words that I have caused and this is my burden to bear for doing so. I also realize it falls on her for not communicating to me that this was still hurting her all these years later. I was unaware because everything was fine on the outside and normal as I thought. Making plans together and loving each other as we have gone along over the years. I messed up here and broke her heart. I will own that and be more careful of the things I say going forward. I need to be more in tune with my own emotions and reactions to others.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
2. In what ways did my wife not support me?
Thinking of of these things will help you create boundaries. It will help you recognize if you hold anger and resentment. It will help determine what your needs are and how to get those needs met in a relationship (whether its a new one or a recon)
I Dont feel like im a person who hold anger and resentment. Im still trying to learn myself. I get irritated at things in life and have been down for a few years battling things internally and externally. I will have to look more into creating boundaries. NOt sure what that would look like here for me. My needs may be more than I realize in a relationship. Biggest thing for me is loyalty and honesty and communication. I cant help things if I dont know. My understanding is that men are more logical thinkers and women are more emotional. I can understand that and in no way mean that as a sexist statement. Just something that I seem to understand more in my own R. I;ve always been a provider and focused on her well being with external things I can control, but never focused on her internal needs and my own as well.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
3. In what ways did I not support myself?
This digs into a little bit of questions 1 and 2.. because living outside of our integrity is very harmful to us. If we aren't treating others or ourselves in a way that doesn't align with our values... we are betraying ourselves.
It also dips into areas of selfcare and GAL.
I guess here I would need to understand myself more. My own integrities and how those are applied to my own R and myself. I need to get more in tune with myself. I feel like the last few years have brought me down with things and I've lost site of myself and my own happiness and direction. Just have to figure out to bring that back and what that looks like. I feel like my world revolved around her and protecting her in a sense from everything I could not realizing I wasnt protecting her from me internally.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
Also just to provide a different perspective than others... it's a REALLY big deal if your W was sick and an emotional response from you was to leave the marriage or similar childish responses. I've had that happen and it was very traumatic for me. Shattering something that has been very difficult to piece back together. To say your wife has trauma and it's her responsibility to deal with it is true... but if that is your response MORE than empathy in regards to this specific topic... you are missing the mark. See question #1
How you treat your wife and yourself from this day forward is your decision. You have been given a gift of knowledge that things in your life and marriage was not working. Use this gift wisely.
Agreed with you here Val. I totally dropped the ball and crushed her world. SHe said that was the last thing she thought she would ever hear from me is that I didnt know if I wanted to be with her due to her sickness. I messed up. I thought we moved past it. I was wrong though and not in tune with us enough to be aware of that. Only if we had time rewind but more often than not its too late when its to that point and takes something as drastic as this to happen for the person (myself) to realize it. From what I understand though if the couple does try to work it out after something this dramatic happens then there is a good possibility of recon. I hope so. but thats just it... hope. I have been nothing short of respectful and loving to her since this has all gone down. Im just trying to not be too needy and give her space but let her know I'm here for her and if she ever wants to talk about anything. Its been hard. Ups and downs. Im trying to focus on things one day at a time though. Going to IC now (way long overdue for that)!! It has helped. But it doesnt stop the heartache of seeing my wife pack her stuff and knowing she is leaving. Down to a weeks or a month probably at most that she will be living here soon. So trying to use that time to work on myself and be there for her if she needs anything without being a puppy dog following her around. I miss her friendship and companionship though. I just need to get out and GAL more for sure. She is doing more of it that I've noticed. I think that helps her. So I need to be on that same level and do some for myself. At this point thats all I can do. Work on myself and hopefully it wont be too late. If it is then I will be better mentally and emotionally going forward.
I've never seen a cheater be honest when asked if they are cheating. Not once.Asking her is pointless.
I agree with others, its likely she is interested in someone else. In the end, it makes no difference. OM is a symptom, not the cause of the BD. It's also likely that if she if starts dating OM, the relationship won't last because it's built upon deceit and dishonesty.
Also, your W has been thinking about leaving you for quite some time, unbeknownst to you. She has had months to detach from you. None of this is spur of the moment, keep that in mind.
I'm looking forward to watching you grow through this. And I posted on another post, as crazy as it sounds, you'll be thankful this happened once the dust settles. You'll find a confidence in yourself that you never knew existed.
Much appreciated on the insight and advice. It's tough for sure. Just trying to take it one day at a time. I actually was doing good today and in a great mood. Took a little ride and trying to focus on myself. Came home and the W was here already. She was a little thrown off cause I was in a good mood. She asked how my day was. Told her good. She said what was good. Told her that I woke up and put my feet on the floor. She asked why I was so happy. Told her just thankful to be alive and know that I will be alright. So she moved along and started packing more. I went and did my thing. Finally we got to packing the kitchen together. Been annoying because she has gotten some stuff and her excuse is that I make double what she makes so I will be fine. Even though she is walking away with tens of thousands of dollars from this blow up. Not saying I'm not either. So anyways I kind of negotiate with her and have been overall happy with getting stuff I wanted. Push back when need to. Well she was being super nice during all of this. I assume because I was faking the crap out of trying to hold it together. She was leaving to go take more boxes to her office. So like a fool. I asked if she wanted to grab some dinner when she was done!!! Dang it. Was doing good. She said not thank u. So I asked how come she got cold after the 1st week of telling me BD. She said cause I twisted things. She said I was supposed to sign papers and then asked for more time and that made her mad. So she isn't interested in being on that level anymore now. So how are you going to flip like that and show your true colors. So she went in her way and I went and got in my car as well to leave to grab something myself. She asked before all of that where I was going when I grabbed my keys. Told her about dinner and that started it collapsing. So Yea I can see how the DB works if applied. Hard to stick to it. I find myself doing good when she isn't around. At least telling myself that. And then when she is around it just rushes all back and the emotions get to me at times. One of my goals is working on that. I don't rage or raise my voice or any of that BS. But just when things are happening like this it's just hard to accept and understand. Work in progress for sure. Another day tomorrow and I turn in my 2 weeks notice to my current employer and it's gonna hit the fan. It's just like a hurricane right now with everything moving the way it is. But I am accepting she is going to have to go her way and figure things out on her own and whatever that looks like for her. I have to move along and figure myself out and whatever that looks like as well. I hear from others that have been through it and read enough here to make my eye balls pop. Just looking for answers, understanding, advice and inspiration all at the same time. Much love!
This has been driving me crazy!!! Good days and bad days. Well yesterday we were packing the house up more. Been rough doing that I felt. She came home and I was working away and in a great mood. She noticed and asked how my day was. Good convo there. But we wound up taking a load to donate. She jumped in the car to go with me. So me being dumb asked why she was coming since I wasn't able to ride with her the last few times to drop her stuff off. She said she would get out and I told her no I was simply joking. So we rode to drop the stuff off. On the way back I asked her what changed from her being nice to the last week of being more cold. She said she was pissed because I asked for more time for the D (30 days) and then also scheduled for couples counseling last week after she told me she didn't want to do it. I didn't expect her to come but wanted to extend tht invitation. I tried explaining to her why I asked for a little time to process everything and I didn't even have an attorney at the time. She wasn't even trying to listen. Just upset. So I left it alone. I tried to validate her feelings and recognize how I could see this would make her upset and that was never my intention. Awkward silence driving together.
Well when we got home there were some people (neighbors relatives before it hit the market) wanting to see the house which was supposed to occur Friday instead of Thursday. So we asked for 15 minutes and did a quick clean. They asked us to give them a tour of the house. Crazy thing is the W asked me to not say anything unless they asked. Well during the tour I actually got along great with the potential buyers. Probably even more so then her. She was more business motivated. It felt she cared more about selling the house instead of making the potential buyers feel like it could be a home. But I noticed she was watching me and kept smiling some as to show she approved. After they left we both were relieved from the craziness. She said thank you multiple times. Told her she is welcome. I asked if she wanted to grab some lite dinner to relax for a minute. She denied. Well she left last night to go to a friend's kids event (what she told me). So I did my thing. She came home and asked me to come downstairs to discuss something. I was in bed at three time watching the game. But I went and she was fresh out of the shower with her robe on. We were talking about financials stuff and her brother's deck which I'm supposed to help with. I told her that I didn't want to foot the house bills if she is deciding to move out early. She was upset cause her share would leave her broke to do both. I told her she had the option to stay here and wait till the house closes. She wasn't a happy camper but I'm not taking that on when this is her decision. She came back upstairs for something after I already came back up. So I tried pursuing her and seeing if maybe there was any chance of cake. Stupid me I know. She turned me down and thanked me the offer. Off to bed I went. Was thrown off her being in her robe and being nice and just giving off that sexiness vibe. Gets to me since we were having cake in the regular pre BD and even some after BD.
So this morning she came up while I was getting out of the shower and ready. She asked about borrowing a suitcase because she is spending the weekend at her friend's house (who I know) where they doing the Halloween party that we were supposed to do Saturday night. She decided to do Friday as well since she works over there and she doesn't usually like being here and was going to do church on Sunday with her boss/friend (boss suggestion to help clear her head as the W didn't go to church usually). Think she just tried to be out of the house as well. Didn't have a problem with it or say anything about it. Well back to her standing there staring me up and down. She was in her robe of course again. She was being a tease. She grabbed my shirt before I could put it in. Told her I thought we weren't touching. She said we aren't . But she stared for quite awhile. Wasn't sure how to feel about it. I'm still attracted to her. She knows this. She is holding that. Got my head all messed up from it. But she left after a few minutes of staring and I went on to finish my day. She left and didn't even use the suitcase. Said she didn't need it after all. She looked good though when she left as she had for awhile .She has every day since this has gone down. And hell even before then. But then again she usually does dress nicer typically
Well day went on and got a few texts from her about normal stuff regarding the D and how to separate things and what not. Been doing some GAL today with friends which has been great. But messed up completely tonight. Sent her a text saying that I know I wasn't supposed to text her this type of stuff but couldnt help but think of her in that robe this morning undressing me with her eyes and the things I wanted to do. So Yea I totally blew it there. She responds to any other text usually or conversation. But when it comes to anything cake related she has cut that out. I get it. She pulls back from that part and full steam ahead on D and house selling. How do I stop this?? I think it will be easier when she moves out and isn't here anymore and u can get on with my life as well. Just dunno how to turn the tables so to speak. The whole cake is driving me crazy and I think she knows it! Ahhh!!!
The whole cake is driving me crazy and I think she knows it! Ahhh!!!
I fully understand how you feel. I haven't had "cake" since January, and my next time is likely a looooooonnnnnngggg way off and won't be with her.
At least that last time in January was very good cake lol.
Seriously though, you really need to get this under control. It will not serve you well to allow yourself to feel manipulated by her actions. It will compromise your detaching from her.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
I hear ya SF. Last time was very good cake! Lol I agree with needing to get this under control. Need to figure out how to deal with it when it happens. Struggle with regulating emotions even more so when she is around. Makes the detaching hard.
Not sure how to handle everything. Different friends I have talked with along with IC all have their own options on what to make of this whole thing. I struggle myself as well. Always wondering if there will be a future us. Try to go on as if there won't be and been doing more GAL. But one the flip side I'm being an idiot in actions as well with the cake and letting her get to me along with still trying to not pursue. I think sometimes she can see through it but other times I think she can't. But trying to hold it together in front of her. Im torn on how to handle conversations. Part of me wants to go on as if I'm living my life and sort of fake it till I make it. Then part of me wants to be on the flip side and talk more with her without seeming needy and showing her small changes this far. I don't say anything about changes to her but just let her see if she can see. Part of me wonders if it even helps. But have to realiZe I make the changes for myself to become a better man and if they help in any sort of R with W then good. But can't be the focus. Just going back and forth on it all is the struggle and the approach with her. I know this was her decision and I remind myself of that. But just how fast everything is moving it feels like literally a wrecking ball coming through. Years to build up a life and tear it down in less than a month and a matter of weeks. Just don't understand. But I try to stay focused. Some days are good and some days it hurts more than I could have ever imagined! One day at a time though. One day at a time.
