My own experience with the suddenness and shock of my W’s bomb drop was quite incredulous. Three hours! The start was at the end of a wonderful Thanksgiving meal after a day of games, family time, holding hands, and sitting close together. W then stands and makes a grand announcement to the bewilderment of our four kids, son’s GF, and my parents. “DnJ, you get the house, the cars, and the kids. Unless you don’t want them, then I guess I’ll have to take them.”
Complete pandemonium ensues.
W justifies her leaving and cheating by blaming me for such wildly petty things. The furnace vent blows cold air on her; my work vehicle burns too much gas and she’s trying to save the planet (my personal car is a Prius ); and so on.
W tells us she is seeing someone too. I ask who. It’s the guy who sells and delivers eggs to us, our neighbour!
My Dad is angry. Son’s GF is mad. Youngest son is furious. My eldest son experiences breathing problems. My second son, daughter, and Mom are all stunned. I was lost! I was in utter shock. Total disbelief, in all the sense and meaning of the word. None of us saw this coming.
Anyhow, kids and I beg and plead and talk, all to no avail. Three hours from the pumpkin pie, W’s exodus is complete. She walks down our 1400 foot driveway to OM’s waiting truck. Three hours, and W disappears, consumed by the darkness.
That, was six years ago.
Originally Posted by dleague
Lawyer I spoke to today suggested I move quick since she is agreeing to lower spousal support and we are in agreement on everything. He said she may change her mind and want more if you hold out on her and not give her this.
Yes, sometimes in an effort to assuage their guilt, the leaving spouse offers a better deal. And yes, often the pressure to offer that better deal fades.
Originally Posted by dleague
I don't want to get her upset and pay more money in the end if she isn't even wanting to try to make this work. Which she shows no signs of even wanting.
Don’t take action or inaction just to try to not upset her. That’s fear controlling you. Figure out what’s best for you and your kids, and do it.
Originally Posted by dleague
She has been civil and still talks to me about stuff. But she isn't interested in talking about us. I haven't brought it up in days. She lives in the basement as of last night. All her stuff is out of the master bedroom.
Good. No R-talks. Focus on you.
Originally Posted by dleague
So should I just go ahead with the dissolution at this point?
If you need financial security or protection, get it!
Originally Posted by dleague
Or should I drag it a little bit and maybe stick with the 180 & Dim/dark? Just not even sure.
You can do both. You do realize that, right? You can separate and still DB. You are on two paths:
When dealing with the business side, keep it business.
And when on the healing/wholeness journey, be better not bitter. Understanding, compassion, empathy, acceptance, forgiveness, and such.
Originally Posted by dleague
What I don't know if this will backfire or if its doing everything I should be doing.
Originally Posted by dleague
I dunno anymore what to do.
Originally Posted by dleague
So does it make sense to go ahead with the dissolution she wants and is pushing for? or do I try to hang and drag this out some to see if any DB methods work?
Breathe dl. Just breathe.
From someone further down the road: DB methods work!
I can’t guarantee your marriage will be saved by DB, however I can guarantee you will be. A marriage, a restoration, a reconciliation, takes two committed people. At the moment there is only you. And you can only control you. So, commit to DB. Do all you can. No matter the outcome, you will know you did all you could to save your marriage.
I’ve been there man. Been lost and with so many questions. Not a clue what to do, or how I’d go on. My W pushed hard for a divorce. She threw her own children away, she was a woman possessed. She crafted a separation agreement which her lawyer sent me.
The business side.
What I did. Listen to my lawyer. Listened to my most trusted friend. I knew I was not firing on all cylinders. I was deeply hurt. And in shock. I listened to my most trusted advisors. (I’d not even found this place at this point.)
Deep down, I knew I needed to sign the agreement. I and my kids needed the security and protection. I signed.
I also committed myself to my healing/wholeness journey.
Today, six years later, my XW is still way down the rabbit hole. Still running. She’s a lost soul.
Today, my kids and I are doing awesome!
DB absolutely works!
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Most guys are clueless. I gave you a few categories to start working on.
You know the 80/20 rule? Men's BEHAVIOR is the 80 where a woman's looks are the 80 when it comes to attraction.
2x4 time: "She asked if I was good with what she said and I was but wish she would have told him that she wanted this and not me"
You have to get everything in alignment. Your core values with your words with your tones and your body language.
W:"Are you good with what I said?" H:"No." Then crickets and walk away. Stop engaging in conversations with with her.
All the rules have changed.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
No more discussions. STFU is your new rule. Every time you speak, you lose. Do not share your thoughts about anything. You use your words with her for two things: 1) Validating her emotional state, 2) build attraction and sexual tension.
Sounds like you are still having conversations with her. If required, treat her politely like the hostess at a restaurant. End convos as quick as possible. You ALWAYS have more important things to do than engage in conversations with her.
You will not get understanding by having discussions with her. You have to pull back and do your own research. You will gain much more understanding having discussions with us.
Originally Posted by dleague
any suggestions resources about seduction.
Look at my book list.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Put your sexual needs on hold.
Originally Posted by dleague
Yea she told me last night she doesn't want to have sex anymore
Is that YOUR decision or HERS? You better reframe this really quickly. Not her decision...YOURS.
Last edited by DnJ; 10/13/2301:58 PM. Reason: Corrected quote syntax.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Def been helpful in understanding and reading all of your advice on here. So a bit of a update from last night. Went out to dinner with another friend that is actually kind of in the same boat. He is getting divorced eventually. They are together for the kids right now. Dont sleep in the same room or anything. Both agree to stay together until the kids get old enough to understand things more. Interesting take but someone I could talk with as he was told years/months ago and confirmed from his W that she doesnt want to have a future together.
Probably broke many of Sandi's rules last night but let the conversation go where it may. It didnt break me this time like it has in the past as I feel like each day is getting better.
Well after dinner last night, came home and She started talking about our dogs. I shifted conversation over to her S17 and how he was doing since they had a talk. She said he is doing okay and will be fine and starting to understand. His main concern, rightfully so, is his mom being okay. Conversations moved to lawyers. I told her my lawyer was willing to do the paperwork for half of what hers was and she said she already put a deposit down. She asked why I was holding up the paperwork and not pursuing things and moving it along. I told her "look, I just need some time to process and deal with this and everything that is going on around me". I told her that I dont plan on making her stay with me and dont want someone married to me that doesnt want to be. She finally proceeded to cry (first time I've seen her cry this much since all of this went down). I told her I was sorry for the pain I caused throughout the years and not being there to understand and see the hurt that I was causing our relationship. That I never meant for it to get this far and was blindsided by all of this and she has had time to process and there are alot of moving parts with the house being sold now and a new job offer Im looking at and the D. I told her that it takes 2 though to make or break a relationship and that it was on both of us and she never showed me that she was holding onto old pain from things I said and she always gave me the impression that things were fine between us with the way we acted. but looking back I realize we were fine on the outside but still hurting on the inside. That there was a lack of communication between us and that is the #1 cause of relationships to fail. I told her I own up to what I did and realize I cant change that no matter how many apologies but wanted to apologize for the role that I played in where we are at today in this point in time. I never meant for us to be here and realize what I have done to get to this point but also that it was her decision to walk away from us. I acknowledge her decision to leave, even if thats what I don't want. But I also know that I dont want to be with someone who doesnt want to be with me. I have to work on me and becoming a better me. I am doing that through therapy and lots of self reflection and realizing the areas I need to improve. We both agreed that therapy has help each of us and was long overdue for each of us. It was an emotional night and just let the conversation roll where it may lead. She talked some but more crying and agreeing with things I was saying. one of our dogs was with us so it was a good distraction for sure. After awhile of talking I asked the dog if he wanted to go to bed and we got up to leave and she followed. Stood in the hallway watching the dog before I came back upstairs and her still teary eyed. I messed up and asked if she wanted a hug (since I know she is emotional and her love language is touch). She said no thank you. I said I understand and took the dog and went to bed.
Woke up this morning and got my workout in. Felt great. Showered and shave and threw some clothes on. Wore some new jeans and some new cologne. Got a knock on the bedroom door from her asking if she can help her older dog downstairs. Told her of course. Came down stairs a little later and she was feeding the dogs. I was waiting on her to get done so I could throw laundry in that is in the same room. She walked by and said I smell nice. Told her thank you and that she looked nice and she said thank you. After the one dog was done eating she helped him outside, He cant walk much anymore. When my dog was done eating i took him out. She was out there with her dog (older one). I told her if she wanted to go eat I could grab the dogs. She is always in a rush in the morning. so she walked by and asked why I had jeans on since it will be 80 today. Told her that they were new and I was breaking them in some and also had an appt today. She went inside and was eating when I brought the dogs back in. I went to the living room which is in the same area as the eat in kitchen, to turn the TV on for the dogs. She asked me how much weight I loss. I told her 12 pounds in the last week (she isnt a fan of skinny guys lol). She said thats good and asked if I was working out still. Told her yes I was and do it in the morning now since I feel better that way and kind of sets my day. COnversation dropped from there. When she left she walked by, looked at me and said Have a great day! I told her thanks and I will and for her to have a great Friday as well!!
So Im sure I broke alot of the rules and never wanted to but felt like conversation was flowing and something got to her last night and she finally looked me in the eyes during conversation and that she realizes that I am going to be okay. This wont break me permanently, only temporarily!!
Tough not to break at least some of the rules. I've added them to an a notes app on my phone so that I can regularly remind myself of actions to take. Might I suggest trying to shorten your responses (Yes, No, I don't know, I can't recall, I'd like more time to think about X, etc.) and there are additional suggestions in the "Welcome" email shared above. As you'll see in other threads, you want to avoid pursuing her in any way (it ends up being a turn off or delaying an opportunity for her to miss you, the things that you do, and possibly see that YOU aren't the cause or sole cause of her feelings). I wish you continued luck and strength as you learn skills that will benefit you in other parts of life for the rest of your life.
So been thinking about this and updates here. Conversations have been good. She went out last night with friends (didn't know until she came and sat next to me at the kitchen table). But you get friends who cared more about bar hopping and she isn't about that. Just listened to her talk about it. Full attention on her. She is def more of someone who wants to relax at home as she said. So here's my dilema. How do I know where it went wrong and where I need to improve at with regards to the R? I am making changes for myself and have been more upbeat. Lots of research and help here has been great. Each day has been getting better. Counselor even mentioned it as well. Trying to remain focused on myself and getting myself right. But looking at trying to determine goals when it comes to the R. But trying to decide where it fell apart. From what I've gathered from her is it was just the last few years of things I have said to her and that I haven't worked that. She is still insistent on a D. She hasn't pushed it much though the last few days or even brought it up. We have had no conversations about the R right now. Just about life and what's going on there, kids, dogs, work, etc. But part of me feels like maybe she is going through a mid life crisis and wants to be single to have the freedom of not having to be responsible for someone else (besides her son). She told me today that when she came home last night she wanted to sneak up to my room. But decided not to because she doesn't want to give me the wrong impression or anything. Well later today we were talking while she was packing things in the basement. She asked me what I would do if she would have came up. Told her I am not even sure. That I am still attracted to her (probably shouldn't have done that). But she was leading me on during conversations about sex. Said she thinks about it but doesn't want me thinking that she is staying. Also she brought up still considering it after the D. So here's my question. I feel like if I'm right that this is a MLC that she needs to have some time for herself to take care of herself. So is there harm with continuing the sex? Besides the emotional attachment. Can that be detached and remain "friends with benefits" after the D? I mean it may not be the best thing emotionally but if we are both doing our own thing and working on ourselves and giving space, and we are only sleeping with each other then is that a bad thing? I'm still attracted to her. And vise versa. Conversations have been good if we don't talk about R or M.
Last edited by DnJ; 10/15/2301:45 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
dl you have to decide what is right get that solid. Do you want to give sexual or other benefits to someone who treats you that way? If a close friend who you want the very best for asked you for your advice or maybe your if your child came to you with such a dilemma what would you tell them?
Told her I am not even sure. That I am still attracted to her (probably shouldn't have done that). But she was leading me on during conversations about sex. Said she thinks about it but doesn't want me thinking that she is staying. Also she brought up still considering it after the D. So here's my question. I feel like if I'm right that this is a MLC that she needs to have some time for herself to take care of herself. So is there harm with continuing the sex? Besides the emotional attachment. Can that be detached and remain "friends with benefits" after the D? I mean it lay not be the best thing emotionally but if we are both doing our own thing and working on ourselves and giving space, and we are only sleeping with each other then is that a bad thing? I'm still attracted to her. And vise versa. Conversations have been good if we don't talk about R or M.
Told her I am not even sure. I think your response should have ended with this.
Think about it. Is a "friend with benefits" what you want to be to her, or do you want to be her #1 choice and lover all the time? Do you want the possibility of her turning to you for sex because she has no other alternative? Do you deserve better than that? And when another alternative becomes available to her, how do you know she won't just push you aside? Then, maybe, if her alternative doesn't work out, she'll consider you again. Isn't that rather abusive?
I get it, dl. I have similar feelings as you. My wife is a very beautiful woman. She's had portraits taken which could be published in a magazine, and she could pass for a model. We were lovers for 25 years. Making love to her provided some of the very best experiences of my life. But now she regards me with disdain, says she'd rather sleep on the floor than with me, and has turned to OM. She isn't the woman I loved and married. Like another poster here said about their spouse, it's like an alien has taken them over.
If the earth shifted on its axis and she came to bed and offered herself to me tomorrow, I admit I would be tempted. Because I am human. Because I know exactly what being with her is like and every great thing about it. I am sure you feel the same way about your W. But those thoughts of being treated like a backup should be like a cold shower. I am a very good man, striving to be a better man. I don't deserve this kind of treatment and I don't believe you do either. No one on this board really does.
My $0.02.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
But part of me feels like maybe she is going through a mid life crisis and wants to be single to have the freedom of not having to be responsible for someone else (besides her son).
Your W is experiencing emotional turmoil. Something is hurting inside her, and there is a displayed desire for freedom from it. Unfortunately that desire to be free of pain, gets misinterpreted and misapplied against the marriage instead of looking to their internal pain.
A crisis is less wanting to be single and free of responsibilities, and more they need to be. A crisis person is driven to their behaviour. They run.
Originally Posted by dleague
I feel like if I'm right that this is a MLC that she needs to have some time for herself to take care of herself.
36 is young for a MLC. Not unheard of, just young. There is a quarter life crisis which can occur. It is similar though somewhat less consuming. Often the QLC individual exits or moves from their crisis without figuring things out. Again, reburying their trauma(s). And things buried alive will haunt later.
If this is a crisis, W needs lots of time and space. Not some, lots! MLC is measured in years. I pray W is not along that path. Time will tell.
Originally Posted by dleague
So here's my question. I feel like if I'm right that this is a MLC that she needs to have some time for herself to take care of herself. So is there harm with continuing the sex? Besides the emotional attachment. Can that be detached and remain "friends with benefits" after the D? I mean it may not be the best thing emotionally but if we are both doing our own thing and working on ourselves and giving space, and we are only sleeping with each other then is that a bad thing? I'm still attracted to her. And vise versa. Conversations have been good if we don't talk about R or M.
If it’s a crisis, or turmoil, or wayward, or walk-a-way, or some mixture (which is usually the case, as all have turmoil and some WAS, WS, tendencies. It’s the degree which kind of garners the label.) continued cake eating will likely prolong her path.
Friends with benefits: You didn’t have an open marriage before, do not have one now. Be the prize. You are the prize. Do not sully or partake in such. Marital problems never get better by bringing/allowing/ignoring another person into the mix.
Would W, or XW, remain exclusive? As in, she’s not see someone else too? You certainly don’t need some disease.
And my goodness if you brought another child into the world in the midst of all this strife.
dl, friends with benefits is a pretty common thought experiment and process most of us go through. It’s part of grief. The stage of bargaining to be specific. Bargaining is when one considers behaviours and actions that promote those “old” feelings. We consider all kinds of wild things, in an attempt to feel that old normal. Anything to hang on to to those wonderfully comfortable feelings of the remembered normal. Perfectly healthy progress of grief, by the way.
Once you realize that bargaining won’t bring back what you lost, you enter depression. It’s here when the weight of that loss bares upon you. Bargaining hasn’t worked. You’ve fought and been angry, and that hasn’t altered the loss either. So much to prop this up hasn’t worked. Depression feels like such a backwards step, a backwards slide to darkness and pain, when in fact it is truly forward progress.
Eventually depression gives way to acceptance. Acceptance is emotional understand. You understand your emotions regarding the situation. You accept your situation. You have peace.
That emotional tranquility is currently a little ways off. Again, all healthy normal progress. Just keeping moving forward.
Grief is a time of emotional upheaval. Lots of feelings stirred up. Lots to find peace with. Having one’s marriage blowed up is a significant loss of security and stability. We all grab onto all manner of things and ideas in the storm. As you gain more and more strength, you find your foundations. You become the stanchion of your life.
Decisions based upon emotions usually lead to regret. Grief is a time of emotions and even the absence of emotions (indifference). Look to logic and reason when making major life decisions.
Hope your Sunday is kind to you.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
So kind of my daily mindset. But looking for some advice here. I feel like W is still in love with me. Could be me holding onto hope in some sense, but just feels that way by talking with her and being around her. I think she feels like since she got married young (25, together when she was 22), that she hasn't had a chance to discover who she is as a person and has lost her way along the way. Multiple serious health issues in the last 6 years, her younger brother (33) whom she is close with is now into drugs, she doesn't have much family around living or even living here. I feel like maybe she is going through a MLC of some sorts. That she needs to work herself out and figure herself out. She has said more than once since BD that she needs to work on becoming a better her and healing herself and figuring herself out. So as much as I want a R, I feel like she is going to file for D either way at this point and mostly to work on herself and for me to work on myself. I honestly don't feel there is any OM in this case. Just alot of emotional thing happening throughout the years in her life. I feel like she has told me before and still feels like she is holding me back in a sense because of her medical issues and personal things. I've tried to reassure her throughout the years that she is not. I haven't been the best support system and def haven't been the person she needs to feel emotional and psychological security. So now I'm looking and trying to figure out how I can set some R goals at this point? I know this is going to take time and I'm learning to accept that each day, as hard as it is. I have been doing my own C and have felt better getting some things out there. My immediate discussions have been around this D and how to cope with that. But I have alot of childhood trauma and even issues now that I need to sort out. So looking for ideas on R goals and what those would maybe look like? Also, trying to determine where along the way it fell off the wagon. I feel like I'm a good husband in the provider sense. Have been with her throughout all the medical issues, not a lazy person at all, handy around the house and life in general, cook and clean, have a decent job (actually accepting a new job offer this week that will be even better, full remote and more pay). So I feel like maybe I fell short when it came to paying attention to her wounds that never healed at this point and never addressed those. I know she kept them inside and maybe showed me along the way she was hurting but I probably missed those cues. So how can I determine R goals and where I went wrong so I can work on that? I'm working on myself as well and becoming a better person (mentally, emotionally and physically). Just not sure on things. I feel like we may have a chance of reconnect later on (she has even mentioned this). But if we do I want to make sure that I have myself ready for that. And if not then I need to have myself in a better mindset in general for myself.
); and so on.
