Go for the low hanging fruit first. Drop all of the non-attractive traits. Start adding attractive traits. Do not be supplicating. Always be on your purpose. Do not be boring. Accentuate your male traits. Do not be a simp.
What do you mean go for the low hanging fruit? Im not sure what non-attractive traits I have as she has told me she is still very much attracted to me. I feel like I maybe dress a little nicer now more than anything. Mostly because I was meeting with Lawyers and counselors but dont plan on stopping the dressing nicer. Maybe I break out some new cologne or something. Hell not sure what to do to become more attractive.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Learn as much as you can about seduction. It is an indirect way to attract.
any suggestions resources on this besides just Google?
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Put your sexual needs on hold. If you do engage with her, she should be pleasantly surprised by your new behavior in bed. New behavior in bed EVERY time from this point forward. Do your research now. It is a lot of work, but worth it. From this point forward, you want her pursuing you for sex, not the other way round.
Yea she told me last night she doesnt want to have sex anymore right now because she feels like it gives me the wrong idea and confuses me. Which I get, but still like it! But not happening. I need to break it myself on my end as well
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
No more discussions. STFU is your new rule. Every time you speak, you lose. Do not share your thoughts about anything. You use your words with her for two things: 1) Validating her emotional state, 2) build attraction and sexual tension.
So going dark/dim here and not speaking to her unless she initiates it? I have the feeling that since she is so stubborn and decisive that she has moved past that point and if I do go dark its not going to matter for her.
how do you know what works since this is only a week old.
As an example:
Originally Posted by dleague
the flowers were a drop and she didnt even care or say anything.
Did the flowers work? No. So do less of that kind of stuff.
Divorce Busting is a discipline. A rational purposeful focused approach to oneself and one’s situation. Mostly focused on self, as that is what one can control.
As you said, this is only one week old. Realize, this is a marathon, not a sprint. The timeline for your efforts to bear fruit will likely be measured in months. Dig for patience.
Originally Posted by dleague
So going dark/dim here and not speaking to her unless she initiates it?
Yes. Yet, not in a mean way. Be kind and cordial. Treat her like a roommate.
Originally Posted by dleague
I have the feeling that since she is so stubborn and decisive that she has moved past that point and if I do go dark it’s not going to matter for her.
Going dark is not some tactic to win her back. Going dark is for you. It’s a tool to reclaim your self, clear your mind, and help with finding detachment.
Detachment is your first milestone on your journey. It is the single best thing you can do for yourself right now. Detachment is when your emotions are no longer uncontrollably dragged around by W’s words and/or behaviour. The key here is the uncontrollably part. Once achieved, you will still hurt and feel - unlike indifference which comes later, yet you will be able to exert an influence upon your emotions.
You are the most important person in this equation. First and foremost, you save you. And doing so, gives you your best chance at saving your marriage.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Did the flowers work? No. So do less of that kind of stuff.
Noted here. Not sure how much I should even consider looking at doing. Im just trying to pull back some here and let her lead and see how it goes.
Originally Posted by DnJ
As you said, this is only one week old. Realize, this is a marathon, not a sprint. The timeline for your efforts to bear fruit will likely be measured in months. Dig for patience.
Understood. So does it make sense to go ahead with the dissolution she wants and is pushing for? or do I try to hang and drag this out some to see if any DB methods work? Don't want to push her and her sort of pull back. Lawyers of course seem to think we should go ahead and get it done since she is being more than reasonable on our dissolution wants.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Yes. Yet, not in a mean way. Be kind and cordial. Treat her like a roommate.
Interesting enough. Last night she came up and hung out with me and my daughter for a little bit. my 25D seems to think its weird that I dont talk with the W since when we told her that we all agreed to be a family in some sort of manner and that there was a possibility of us still seeing each other. Who knows if that will actually happen.
Well W came up this morning from her staying in the basement now (moved all of her stuff out of the master to the basement last night and sleeping on the couch now). She seemed cheery. She asked if I worked out since I seemed upbeat. Told her I did. She asked me if I had anything I wanted to talk about. I told her nothing comes to mind right now (not trying to talk about the R right now as much as its killing me not to!). She asked if I went to counseling yesterday (it was the one I was trying to get her to come and do it as a couples one of course she didnt show up). I told her I did go. She asked how it was nd if I felt better since going. Told her it was great and that it was overdue. I asked about her therapy session on Tuesday. She said it went great and she actually didnt cry this time and was alot easier to talk since she wasnt. She has another one next week and I have one tomorrow. She asked why I was hanging around this morning and havent left for work. Told her I had an appt to go to. She asked if it was counseling or lawyer. So told her it was a lawyer. And it was in the direction she heads every day for work. She said I should be fine to leave by a certain time. So she was leaving and said I hope you have a great day today. I told her the same and hope she has a great day as well!
Originally Posted by DnJ
Going dark is not some tactic to win her back. Going dark is for you. It’s a tool to reclaim your self, clear your mind, and help with finding detachment.
Detachment is your first milestone on your journey. It is the single best thing you can do for yourself right now. Detachment is when your emotions are no longer uncontrollably dragged around by W’s words and/or behaviour. The key here is the uncontrollably part. Once achieved, you will still hurt and feel - unlike indifference which comes later, yet you will be able to exert an influence upon your emotions.
Still learning and working on this. Feels good each day. Slow process and trying to understand it all. She wants us to sit down with her 17S tonight to tell him together like we did my 25D. I told her I would be there when she gets home with him (he doesnt live with us, lives with his dad). Feel like the dark is somewhat confusing. Like she comes off cordial and inviting in conversations and initiates it. 25D thinks I should talk to her like its not a big deal and life goes on. Just hurtful at this time knowing whats coming down the line. im just trying to focus on myself and getting myself straight though right now and not even sure what that looks like honestly. for years its been about her and making sure she is happy and have put myself on the back burner. So just trying to process and understand and move slowly at this point. more watching from behind the scenes instead of being on the mic. What I dont know if this will backfire or if its doing everything I should be doing. She is a very emotional W and always wanting physical touch (her love language). So just hard because part of me wants to push that and connect through that.
You are on the front burner now. Your life, your priorities, your values, your daughter and family. I would not be home when she and her S arrive. And be out the door first in the am.
I thought you handled the convo pretty well in the am. Sounded upbeat forward focused and batting things done.
One correction I would offer. You said it’s time to let her lead. I beg to differ. Yes as far as the divorce goes sounds like that’s not you want so you are not driving that but you are your leader. You lead you and your family.
Don't even know what to think. She came home tonight with her S17. I've been in his life since he was in diapers (2). She told him with me there, that we are getting a divorce. Tht we fell out of love with each other. And that we are being nice to each other and respectable. That these things just happen. That she will be living on her own with him and our older dog and I will be taking the younger dog. But she will bring him around to see the dog. And that I lived him and want to remain in his life, which is all true! That I wanted to see him graduate next year. That we are selling the house. He is a strong kid. Smart and straight A's. But has had a very rough child hood at his father's house. This broke him. He said this was the only consistency in his life and now that is gone. Said he will be okay but just needed time. She plans on taking him to dinner to talk with him on the side because they have a strong relationship. And it's sort of their thing to do dinner or lunches or whatever. As soon as he left, she started talking to me. No emotion for me, didn't really expect it. She asked if I was good with what she said and I was but wish she would have told him that she wanted this and not me. But not fair to ask or even bother with. We both agreed that was tough on him and that broke him a little bit. She then got into conversation about the lawyer and where I was on that. I told her I'm still deciding on that and have one in mind I plan on using. She asked what's holding me back. Told her I just needed a little time to get things together and over to him and it's only been 10 days since she told me all of this so it's all moving so fast. Told her I would let her know once I decided. Lawyer I spoke to today suggested I move quick since she is agreeing to lower spousal support and we are in agreement on everything. He said she may change her mind and want more if you hold out on her and not give her this. So I'm just torn on all of it. I don't want to get her upset and pay more money in the end if she isn't even wanting to try to make this work. Which she shows no signs of even wanting. She has been civil and still talks to me about stuff. But she isn't interested in talking about us. I haven't brought it up in days. She lives in the basement as of last night. All her stuff is out of the master bedroom. So should I just go ahead with the dissolution at this point? Or should I drag it a little bit and maybe stick with the 180 & Dim/dark? Just not even sure. I have been upbeat around her and dressing nicer and not mentioning us and following the 37 rules. But she may be one of the ones that isn't interested and maybe we can reconcile later if anything at all?
You are walking a path that many have walked before you - I know that’s not much consolation, but eventually, you’ll get through this and be okay. Millions of people have been through this and have been okay. It just feels super overwhelming when you’re in the middle of it.
A few observations:
- sudden chronic medical illness (particularly when there was no diagnosis for a long time) is the number one trigger for a mid-life crisis, followed closely by death of a parent. She was facing her own mortality, and it made her ask questions like “Is this all there is to life?” It’s lit a fire under her to live in the moment. You need to do some reading about mid life crisis.
- sex was a bad idea. It made you feel like there was a chance. For her, it made her feel less guilty. I guarantee she was doing it because she felt sorry for you and didn’t want to feel like a bad person. In her head “If we have some sex, he will be less upset and will have more time to get his head around me leaving.” I see you’ve stopped this and that’s good. Don’t go back there.
- Definitely get a lawyer now. Many LBS avoid this because they think if they try to be nice to their spouse, they may be able to win them back. The ship has sailed, so you need to protect yourself. If she’s still feeling guilty, you may be able to get a good financial settlement and avoid alimony etc. Remember, it’s a business deal now. You can get advice from a lawyer without actually engaging them. They can give you info on what you need to do, what you’re entitled to, what a good deal might be… but you can just keep that information for you and try to negotiate it out yourself with wife.
- Start being mysterious and attractive. New clothes, new aftershave, new friends, always be going out. The most unattractive thing to a woman is a man who sits at home pining for her. If you seem completely uninterested in her and happy without her, she’s much more likely to consider you a fun and exciting person to be around. Get out of your comfort zone. Go to bars. Practice flirting, but don’t push it any further than that.
Yea kind of my thoughts at this point. Feel like she is a stubborn woman and very decisive and whenever she makes a decision she goes with it. I ultimately don't think this is what she wants and she may realize that layer down the road. Hard to focus and move on. I'm doing the GAL. Main focus is getting the house ready to sell though so we can move on. Feel like it would be easier for me to do this if I didn't stay here or see her every day. Just all crazy cause she still talks reasonable. But there is def a wall built up against me in her. Can feel that tension and she has no cracks in it for me to even see if there is hope. Just all happening so fast. How do you focus on moving on so quickly? Just wish I understood all of this and where it all comes from. Lawyer asked me if there was another guy. I honestly feel in my hear there isn't. She even made that clear when she told me she wanted the D. Said she wanted to focus on herself and be her own flavor. But who knows. Just torn when she is around and try to not engage too much and do the GAL. Downside is the money is still tied up between us. So every time either of us spends money we shoot a text to let the other know. Not trying to spend too much right now with everything going on. Hell I dunno anymore what to do. I get out and do walks. Exercise. And everything I can think of otherwise to stay active
Yea kind of my thoughts at this point. Feel like she is a stubborn woman and very decisive and whenever she makes a decision she goes with it. I ultimately don't think this is what she wants and she may realize that layer down the road.
My W is the same. I think we all feel like this is some oddity at first. She might wake up down the road, but you can't depend on it.
Originally Posted by dleague
Just all happening so fast. How do you focus on moving on so quickly? Just wish I understood all of this and where it all comes from.
She has likely been planning this for a long time. As in months, at least, or longer.
Originally Posted by dleague
Lawyer asked me if there was another guy. I honestly feel in my hear there isn't. She even made that clear when she told me she wanted the D.
Beware of this. I just found out there is OM involved in my situation. My wife would say things like the following during our marriage: "I take my marriage vows very seriously. If you ever cheat on me, I will kill you." I always took this as a joke since I presumed that she knew that I would never cheat on her, and have not come close to doing so. She would also venomously criticize others that cheated, like her cousin's XH.
You know what they say: The ones that protest the loudest...
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
Sex is often used by the wayward as a guilt management technique, leading up to and sometimes after bomb day.
Mine certainly did.
When my lawyer told her the inconsistency of her actions, she then flipped it and said she felt unsafe and so that’s why she did it.
Anything to avoid being responsible for her own decisions and behaviour.
The absolute number 1 thing at bomb day is to stop any intimacy. It just prolongs the pain for the LBS, and allows the wayward/walk away to cake eat their way around guilt.
