My Story (2)

[Sunflyer]

Thanks Valeska for the input! Highly, highly appreciated!

[DnJ]

Good Morning Sun

Went to a retirement workshop at work yesterday. Not because I am planning on retiring soon, but to become more informed so I can gauge my own financial future in light of what is going on in my M right now.

Those retirement workshops sure provide lots of answers. I learned so much in mine, even for the questions I didn’t even know I had. It’s good to get/have accurate data to gauge and plan towards your future.

S17 has a four-day weekend, and is home from college. He got in last night after 9:00 and immediately ran out to his favorite chain food establishment, which doesn't exist in the much smaller city where he attends college.

Lol! A late supper.

Yep, I much enjoy getting into the big city for my favourite restaurants as well.


Regarding Thanksgiving, Christmas, and other special events: Preempt. Make plans. Do something. Have people over. Throw a party at your house, invite your family and friends. Or go out - because you want to, not because W might have her parents over. (I suspect she’s likely to visit them, not cook and clean, and look after all that stuff for such an occasion.)

W has already mentioned Thanksgiving once. I've decided that I need to pull the plug on my involvement in any family gatherings where W's family are involved. This is how it is going to be going forward anyway. I don't need a piece of paper signed by a judge to know when a family unit is finished.

I don't think she anticipates my doing this. I've toyed with different ways of telling her, thinking that the best is just to say, "I won't be there." Knowing her, she will probably try to prompt for more and ask if this means Christmas, etc. also. I'm assuming that if she asks for a reason, I shouldn't give her one...just end the convo as quickly as possible.

What did she mention? Did she say she was hosting it?

I’d not attend Thanksgiving at her parent’s or some other place; trying to give the appearance of the family unit. When/if she asks, just tell her “No thank you, I’ve got other plans”.

If you are going to have folks over, tell W. Just mention that fact. “Just so you know, I’m hosting Thanksgiving with my parents and friends on Saturday November xx”.

Remember, roommate-like. Give notice and walk the high road as best you can.

S17 has been with his GF for a few months now. Their relationship is exclusive and serious at this point.

I like his girlfriend. She is generally nice, BUT I find it hard to form a relationship with her.

W has informed me (via son's GF's mother) that she is a high-functioning autistic. Intellectually, she functions fine, but she is extremely quiet. Quiet as in, when she comes into the house I don't even know she is there half the time. Quiet as in, when she sees me, she looks right through me as if I am not there. She does not initiate greeting. I feel she is not comfortable with me. And I thought I was introverted. She is my level of quiet times two.

Crafting a relationship with one’s kid’s significant other is challenging.

When my kids started dating and bringing around their partner, especially when their relationship was exclusive and serious, I thought about what relationship I want with these potential family members. Believe me with my first kid, my eldest son, I was charting new territory. And that, as it turned out, was for more than just his GF; his and my relationship too would have to evolve.

I needed to see, and treat, my kids more as adults than kids. For they are.

I then considered their point of view. My kids’ point of view, as well as any date/partner they bring around. I thought about my own past. Which relatives did I feel most comfortable around. What (and who) did I like/love the most? I decided that was the behaviour to emulate. And that emulating became my evolution. Became me.

No matter when. No matter what I’m doing. If/when kids and/or friends/partners show up, I stop and greet them warmly. Everyone gets a hug. Always.

For sure, at first, that was not the norm. Not my norm. However, my best memories and most loved people always greeted me like I was the most important person to arrive on their doorstep. And, my kids are! And anyone they are investing themselves into, I best be supportive and treat similarly. So I do.

Certainly, my kids’ “starting out” dating and relationships have not all panned out. That’s dating. However, when exclusive and serious comes around, I’ve found their significant other is brought around a lot more. And I ensure they feel welcome.

You are the parent. You lead. You gently steer your kids. You are a living example.

Nowadays, all my kids show up with arms outstretched too. So do their partners and friends. Heck, even my friends all do too.

Funny side story. My son’s wedding. I was me. Everyone I met, I gave a big hug to. Even the minister. Apparently that is not often done. Lol. Turns out I was instantly burnt into people’s memories. That weekend they all knew my name, and I had plenty more hugs from all the relatives, initiated from them, for the next two days.

The Christmas concert at my house, the one year anniversary for my kids, these same folks arrived open-armed. To me, it looks like most people feel the world could use more hugs and positive interactions; we just need a gently push in that direction.

Like I said, when I first considered who I wanted to be - By the way, this ties in really well with examining one’s beliefs and convictions. Especially the “craft values you aspire to” - when I first considered who I wanted to be, this was all quite a step out of my comfortable norm. There is worry and fear of how people will react. What if they don’t like it. And so on. Ah, fear. After living through BD and my situation, I’m pretty fearless now. I mean, it’s pretty unlikely anyone will ever hurt me anywhere close to what W did and could. So set fear aside. People do respond positively. People do want to be, do want to feel, welcomed and honoured.

Regarding the autism. Do not make it an issue or barrier. My DIL’s sister has severe autism, childhood disintegrative disorder, and suffers from seizure disorder as well. She was not expected to live past ten or so. She is now in her twenties. When I first met her she was so very shy. I greeted her kindly and went at her pace. Over time, she became trusting and felt at ease. Now, she hurls herself towards me for hugs, and I better be ready and braced.

Sun, consider those who you most felt loved and cherished by. Aspire, to be your best self. Be sincere.

I hope that helps.

D

[Sunflyer]

So...I have 99% confirmed that W has interest in at least one, possibly two other men.

[Sunflyer]

Evidence of her affair:

It started with me noticing little things. I noticed that she started keeping her phone face down on tables, etc. I cannot read her messages while the phone is locked, but I suspected she didn't want me seeing who the messages were from.

Leaving a room to "get coffee" or similar and being gone for an extended period of time. I guessed that she was talking on the phone with someone (later found to be correct).

I noticed on several occasions when she would be out somewhat later than usual, I would track her phone and she would be somewhere that one wouldn't normally remain for long periods of time, such as the drug store a few blocks away. Again, I presumed she was having conversations there. She would subsequently come home with no bags from the store.

Having suspicious phone conversations with her mother. She REALLY needs to figure out that being in the next room and talking in a low voice does NOT prevent me from hearing her. My hearing is excellent. She tries to use fairly neutral phrases when talking but occasionally something diagnostic slips through. I heard her saying things like, "What do you think about the other one (man)? What do you think about the wife?" (I'm guessing the guy--or one of the guys if there's more than one-- that she is dealing with is married or separated). "It's hard to do this when I have this thing (presumably meaning the D) to take care of, and I don't want to mess it up."

After all this, I pulled the cell phone bill from the last month and reviewed it. For almost a month, there have been calls in the morning and evening (and occasionally in the afternoon) every single day, from a number I don't recognize, and they are usually the longest calls of the day, ranging from 20 to 80 minutes. (She never calls him; perhaps she thinks that will prevent the calls from showing up on the bill?) Tried a reverse lookup on the number, and it appears to be assigned to a male in his late forties.

Seems like game, set, and match to me.

[Kind18]

An all too common story Sunflyer.

This is why we regularly tell newcomers here that there is probably another person, even though the walkway/wayward (and often the LBS too) vehemently deny it.

This is what modern divorces are often about. Someone who gets bored/wants to cheat or leave, and then progressively gaslights you into thinking it’s your fault because you forgot one Valentine’s Day.

All those supposed relationship problems on your first post - they weren’t big issues. They were your soon to be ex wife refusing to take responsibility for her choices and grooming you into thinking your actions were entirely responsible for the failure of your marriage. It makes me sick, so many manipulative cheats who play victim and gaslight LBS.

You have two choices - ignore it completely and quietly keep DBing, or blow up her world.

Personally, I’d choose option 2.

Wait until she is going out for a day. Throw ALL her stuff on the sidewalk. Call the number from the phone bill and say “I know what’s going on with Mrs Sunflyer, she is all yours, I wish you the best of luck” and then hang up. Get the locks changed, change your FB status to single and make a post about cheating. Then message her “just spoke to xxxx. Seems like a great guy. Your stuff is on the sidewalk, the locks are changed and you need to live somewhere else. I’m not angry, I guess I’m just disappointed. Wishing you all the best, my lawyer will be in touch.”

I know the above is counter intuitive to traditional DBing, but traditional DBing doesn’t generally work when your spouse is a gaslighting NPD.

The all-in approach is more likely to be successful in these scenarios. She’ll either leave and never look back, or she’ll suddenly feel the weight of her decisions and wake up.

In situations with a gaslighting NPD, DBing slowly and quietly just gives them time to get their victim story straight and get comfortable with leaving.

[Sunflyer]

Thanks Kind. I am very sympathetic to option #2. Not sure it's something I can practically do at the moment. I am 99% committed that I am going to out her in this. Use it like an ace up my sleeve. I don't know what MWD says about this; I should pull out the book and see. Perhaps "outing" isn't in line with DB practices, but...

My reaction to this has been...odd. Two nights ago I couldn't sleep, and the nights of broken sleep are something that had stopped long ago. Should I feel like crying, screaming, or putting holes in the walls? Because I don't. It's painful, of course, but I feel oddly vindicated. She was the emphatic, pious one who loved to preach fidelity in marriage and reminded me of it multiple times over the years. I just kept my mouth shut and lived it. And am still living it. You'd have to go back to 1996--a year and a half before I met her--to find me in bed with a woman other than her.

From what I gather, people often take a hit to their self-worth because of this. I feel like my stock just went up.

[Sunflyer]

And now, perhaps in contrast to my last post...maybe I turned weak here?

We had a lockdown at work today. Not a drill, the real thing. Weapon reported, told to shelter in place. I locked my office door; my office mate was not there at the time. I was alone. I was in such a hurry to hide that I stupidly forgot to turn out the office light.

I got down on the floor behind two file cabinets where there was space between the cabinets and the wall. A shooter would not be able to see I was there if they were coming down the hallway. But my office is a fishbowl with big windows on two sides. If someone had been looking in the window, they might have spotted me.

What can I tell you? I texted her. The first person I thought of. She's been in my life 26 years, I made children with her, if I was going to go then I didn't wanted her cursing my remains because I didn't tell her.

She asked me to update her, then asked me to call her cell and not say anything, but just stay on the line with her until, hopefully, it was over.

It lasted about half an hour; then the all clear came. She texted again, and then later tonight, asking if I felt okay.

Strangely, I never felt terrified the whole time. It was out of my hands. I couldn't control the situation. I could only control my reaction to it.

Sounds familiar?

[Kind18]

She was the emphatic, pious one who loved to preach fidelity in marriage and reminded me of it multiple times over the years.

Suddenly starts to all make sense now, doesn’t it?

I just kept my mouth shut and lived it.

Yeah - because you are a high value human, and she is low value. You deserve so much more.

In these situations, the real challenge for the LBS is learning self-love and respect. It’s a long, tough road. In a few year’s time, I have no doubt you’ll realise your own worth again.

[Drh2001]

Sunflyer,

I read your posts and truly feel for you. Four years ago my WW had a one night stand in a hotel and I discovered evidence on her tablet. She lied about it till I showed her the evidence and then insisted she was "separated" when she live with me and our children.

She told me "I've been told it's not cheating if you say you're separated."



It's up to you if you expose the affair or keep quietly doing detective work. Your wife is already out the door in a manner of speaking. Only a miracle can stop this.

If she has had a physical affair already, you may see personality changes. In my WW it was extreme as if something had taken over her. This is what is called "affair fog" - they will spend money recklessly and make foolish decisions. My ex wife later told me she didn't remember much of what happened during this time.


You have a * short * window of time while they are in the fog to get your financial affairs in order.

Every WW is different, but my WW was so flippant she didn't even make a budget for her living expenses after separation. They will agree to some rather bad terms because all they want to do is get out of the marriage and feed their affair addiction.

This does not mean that you hide financial resources or deliberately give her less. It means you keep as much as you can, that you worked for.

I did mediation with my wife and I filed for divorce immediately to protect myself, my house (I bought her out) and my kids (of which I have primary custody). Since she moved straight in with OM I did not have to pay alimony despite being married for well over 10 years. Child support was shared expenses and I kept all my retirement plans.


I wish you all the best.

[buck1]

When I'm home, I'm otherwise engaged. If she needs help with something, I help her, but at the moment we are probably as close to separated as possible while being under one roof. Not even much texting.

The question is, can this be overdone? Is it possible to give too much "space?"

The reason I ask is because one of her core complaints that led to our breakdown was, "You don't seem to want to talk to me" or "Our conversations are too superficial." Wondering if the current state of affairs might just look like more of the same.

I have this exact same question! Since discovering this site and making my first post a week ago, I'm amazed at how similar my experience is to many others on here. I don't yet know how your situation turned out but I wish the best for you.