So I'm lost here with everything going on in my marriage and maybe/hopefully I can get some advice here to help sort things out. Im 44 and wife is 36. We have been together 14 years (married 11). Was just told by her last week that she doesn't want be with me anymore and doesn't envision a future with me. Of course this caught me off guard and mind blown. I felt like things have been good! She did this last year and I left the room in tears. She came and we talked and she said she felt like she was holding me back from my future and anything I wanted to do. I told her that I wanted her and she is my future and the one I want to make plans with. We reconciled and agreed to make it work. This time she told me that she couldnt shake the feeling and was hurt from the years of the things I've said (see below).
A little backstory for reference. we bought a beautiful lake home that we completely renovated about 6 years ago. 6 months after we bought it, she was diagnosed with a rare disease called Ramsey Hunt Syndrome (same thing that Bieber has now). It was mentally and emotionally exhausting for both of us. I was constantly on edge as we were going to the doctor and ER multiple times to try to figure this out before one ENT finally did. Well as part of this her lifestyle drastically changed. She could no longer do as much as she could as she would get tired very easily. She couldnt do anything fast motion like roller coasters or strobe lights. She was/is very strong and probably one of the strongest women I've ever met. AS the years went on we figured things out. She was in a job she didnt like nor want to do the rest of her life. Well along the way I've said some dumb stuff. on our 7 year anniversary we were in another state on vacation and there was some tension between us and I just said something stupid along the lines "I have to think about all of this and if this is something I want to deal with". I've also said some other stuff along the years such as calling her "boring". So I'm sure this has all weighed on her. I wasn't always the best with thinking before I speak.
I always considered us unbreakable. Lots of our other friends did as well. We never had any fights or called each other names or laid hands on each other. Never any affairs or infidelity. On the outside we loved each other. We had the stresses of daily life. The last few years finances have gotten more stressful. I was stuck in a job I wanted out from. We were always remodeling something on the house or having to fix something. We were the type that always had something going on. But we loved each other and loved on each other. Sex was always great and never deprived.
Well she has 2 brothers. One younger and one older. Her older brother was in jail for drugs at one time when she was a teenager. Now her younger brother (33) we found out about a month ago that he is on drugs and battling depression. He was always the straight edge type and never touched anything. Her mother is living in states away. her dad she cut out of her life a few years back. we both have kids before our marriage and non together, mine is 25 and hers is 17. We have 2 loving dogs. one is on his way out in the next few months and is the closer one to her.
So she is wanting to sell the house (she is a real estate agent). She wants to proceed with a dissolution. We don't hate each other and have been more than respectful of each other. After she told me this last week, I had some time to do some self reflecting. well towards the end of the week, I took her to her favorite restaurant to try to talk to her one last time. Lay it all out. Own up to the mistakes I made and try to see if we can move past it. It was emotional. At the end she said she isnt there anymore and its hard to make it work if only one person wants to (me). So we signed papers last night to sell the house. I told her I dont even care about the house or anything in it. With us selling it I proposed she could be a stay at home mom, like she wanted since we will be better of financially and its what she has always wanted (mostly because of her disease she is dealing with) but we could never do since we were strapped financially. I wanted to give us a chance and try to figure this out. We both agreed that we love each other. We even have had sex a few times since this all went down. I finally got the job offer I was waiting on 2 days after she told me that she wanted out. She proposed celebratory sex with "no strings attached". I enjoy sex with her and still am deeply attracted to her, so of course I obliged. I feel like Im in love with her and she isnt in love with me anymore. I feel like the things I have said and stresses I have caused throughout the years has forced her to protect her heart. I can't find a crack to get through though. We have on paper divided everything up in the house. We still sleep in the same bed (she plans on moving to the basement at the end of the week until the house sells as she thinks it would be better). She still walks by and asks if Im okay and gives me hugs. Tells me she is still attracted to me. Even threw out the opportunity for us to have sex after the divorce as long as we arent sleeping with others. Over the last few days of talking she has mentioned in conversations that we may find each other again (she said she read about one couple that was divorced 7 years and got back together for life). She is open to going on dates. We still have our dogs we raised together and want them to be around each other. My daughter is really close to her and probably will still see her and spend the night with her, which is something I totally support. My wife even said we may still spend the night with each other.
So I feel like she is hurt. Lots going on with her. Lots going on with me. we both are in therapy now. I suggested marriage counseling. Shes not interested though. She is ready to sell the house, move out and get on with her life and figuring that out and what that entails. She says she isnt interested in dating and wants to figure her life out. With her saying things like we can still have sex and still go on dates and stuff, makes me feel like maybe she needs time. I feel like we both love each other and in love with each other. Just in a tough spot and trying to find out if there is anything/advice on if I can save this or do I let it go and maybe hope for rekindling later? It just tears me up inside with all of this. She has given me hugs and been there when it hits me, but emotionally feels like she is detaching herself.
Welcome to the boards. I’m sorry the rug has been pulled out from under you, it is quite a gut punch getting that bomb drop.
You are in a wonderful place here; many kind compassionate folks with much hard-earned wisdom.
I’ll copy Cadet’s welcoming post for your reference. Do read the links, there is a trove of really good information there.
Do you have a copy of MWD’s book Divorce Remedy? If not, do get one. And remember to keep it, and this site, close to your vest. Spouses that are looking to leave see/feel such information and marriage saving guidance as manipulation, which tends to exacerbates the strife.
I see BD was last week, and there was a similar time a year ago. You also took her out to her favourite restaurant and tried to see if she could move passed all this. And she just dug into her plan deeper. So, give her time and space.
You are correct, she has lots going on within her. Realize, she doesn’t want you to solve it for her either. She’s pushing away. The best, fastest way to any possible reconciliation is in the opposite direction. She needs to feel the loss, before she’ll feel something else.
You don’t necessarily actively strive in that direction. You leave the heavy lifting to her. Let her feel the weight and responsibility of her decisions. This builds time into the process. Gives time for reflection and a possible change of heart for her. And give you time to become the best version of yourself.
You do have the gift of time in all this. Use it well.
W’s words and behaviour shows she is standing in two worlds. She says she wants out, yet goes out for diner with you, wants to sell the house, still sleeps with you, even proposes having a relationship after splitting up, yet doesn’t envision a future with you. Her views all quite confusing and conflating.
Believe nothing they say, and only half of what they do.
W, like many who jump ship in such a manner, is being lead by her feelings. And feelings are fleeting. Feelings change, and then so does their reason and credence of whatever they said before. Follow her actions and behaviours more than her words. And even then, take those behaviours with a large grain of salt.
In conversations with W, validate her feelings. Do not try to talk her out of things. Do not argue with her. If she adamantly thinks/feels the sky is red, it is. For her. Validating is not condoning, it is acknowledging her feelings. Validating she has the right to feel as she does.
You laid out your side during that diner. She knows you don’t want this. No further need to bring it up. And besides, one cannot talk their way out of something they acted their way into. Going forward, become a man only fool would leave. Of course, self betterment is a life long project.
Originally Posted by dleague
Lay it all out. Own up to the mistakes I made and try to see if we can move past it. It was emotional. At the end she said she isnt there anymore and its hard to make it work if only one person wants to (me). So we signed papers last night to sell the house. I told her I don't even care about the house or anything in it.
Originally Posted by dleague
We have on paper divided everything up in the house.
Big suggestion. Do not sign anything before running it by your lawyer.
See a lawyer. This doesn’t mean you are getting divorced, or want a divorce, this is just to get information on your rights, options, and expected outcomes. Do this ASAP.
Many leaving spouses have a dreamy vision of divorce and how smoothly it all goes. The truth is often quite abrasive to such a shiny facade and naive outlook. You seeking legal counsel will likely ruffle her feathers. Doesn’t matter, do not short sell yourself or your half of the martial assets. You cannot nice her back in all this. And you still need to provide for yourself, you’ve got lots of years left. For most, this is the biggest financial decision of their life; do seek and listen to legal advice and counsel.
As for sex during all this and after. My view, she is making specific and purposeful movement, not just talk, towards splitting up. I’d not allow cake eating.
I know the situation is hard. And it hurts.
Focus on you. Get a life. Do stuff. Go out for a walk. Work towards detachment.
Give lots of time and space.
DnJ
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Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you for the quick reply here. So I have started the process of working on becoming a better self for myself. I have started in on counseling/therapy. I have discussed this matter with the counselor yesterday and his response was that it sounds like she isnt being fair. He was shocked on how fast W is moving along and pushing things consider it wasnt even a week from BD and then going over who gets what and putting together excel spreadsheets on divinding things up and finances and what that would look like after selling the house. W is full steam ahead on everything. Counselor suggested that I take some time before proceeding with the D. Maybe 30 days. Said that everything is moving so quickly and I havent had time to process it all. I never thought about it until he said that and I tended to agree.
I also talked with a friend of ours yesterday (his wife and my wife are good friends/work together but me and him are also good friends and he called to show support). He suggested that I throw it out there about going to therapy and dont push the issue. Said pick up some nice flowers and just leave her a note letting her know about the time and place and dont be around when she sees it. So I did that. Well when she came in the door, I was heading out on a phone call with the couples therapist (never been to this person before and wanted it to remain neutral). I came back in and she met me at the door and said that she would go to the therapy appt if I would go next week to sign paperwork for our dissolution. I told her, regarding that I would like to have some time to process everything that is going on right now and I need to get myself a lawyer as well. That I feel like everything is moving so quickly like a hurricane for me. From gettin the BD on me, to signing papers to sell the house and dividing everything up all within a week. Of course, she was not happy. She kept trying to reason with me to go next week. Saying the 30 days wont change her mind and there is not any point to waiting since we agree on everything and we just need to get it done and over with. She said Im going to grieve a loss either way, whether its now or after. I told her I understood but am asking for this as she has had time to process all of this before her decision was brought to me. She finally backed down and walked away. Mind you since last week BD, she has been nice and cordial. This is the 1st time I have seen her get irritable over this whole thing.
Later on last night after that happened, we were outside with the dogs. I cant remember exactly what started the discussion but we got on how we are where we are. Somehow it got brought up about last week when I took her to dinner and laid it out. She said that she was irritated with how I dressed because I had a few buttons of my shirt undone (she always has liked that). She said that she knew why I did it but it shouldnt have come to this for me to do that. She said that I told her that I wasnt in this relationship for the last 3 years. I of course debated that since I know I told her that I wasnt being the protector, man and husband she needed me to be. Not that I wasnt in this. I was distracted by work, financial stress and home stress and along with relationship stress that I didnt even know how deep that was! I asked her why she said what she said about rekindling later on and if she meant that or if she was leading me on to get me to sign everything. She said she doesnt know what the future holds. She said if she looks at the next 5 years, she doesnt see me in it. but she said that if we both become better versions of ourselves then maybe we could see if we could make things work. She told me she doesnt care if I need time and if its next year then so be it but she is going to go on living her life without me. Last night seemed to be the most she has shown emotions since this has all gone down. Maybe not the emotions I am looking to see but understanding that she has them and shown them is somewhat promising to me.
We both were laying in bed last night. Just talking, trying to not talk about this. But I did mention that maybe she should consider the counseling together. If not to bring us to together, but maybe help us both bring some closure and understanding of where things went wrong. I felt like our communication wasnt the best over the last few years and maybe someone could help us understand why or even help us understand where we go from here and if not together then how to do this on our own. She told me she has to work on herself and even if I dont believe it that this breakup hurts her and she needs to heal from that after the D. I told her I understand and we both will hurt from this and need to heal. There was still that proposition of cake. we both were getting out of the shower and she would smile and I would as well. Laying in bed though I tried to make a move and she said she didnt want to because she felt like its causing me confusion and possible hope for us. So I obliged. I told her maybe one day we could or would get back to that but I respect her decision. She also confirmed again laying in bed last night that she will go to therapy but only if and when I sign papers. So this morning I tried rolling over to cuddle with her. I have done it every morning since this has all gone down and she has been receptive. This morning she was not. She put her hand up as to push me away. I said okay and I understand. She was down eating breakfast this morning and we both were watching TV. I was of course breaking rules and being a puppy dog in this phase. She wouldnt even look at me though. 1st time this morning that I havent told her I loved her when she left for work. I just told her that I hope she has a good day and she said the same back.
So Im not even sure at this point if I should try anything. I feel like the last week I have been making myself available for her and breaking more rules that I even realized before I found this page! So have the feeling now that I just going to try to follow the rules here (sandi's rules) and see how that goes because what I have been doing for the last week is not working. Just not sure if I should cut loses now or what my next steps should even be. I appreciate the advice here!!!
I am sorry you are here. Let's take a closer look.
Originally Posted by dleague
He was shocked on how fast W is moving along and pushing things consider it wasnt even a week from BD and then going over who gets what and putting together excel spreadsheets on divinding things up and finances and what that would look like after selling the house.
You can bet that she has been thinking about this for a long time so it is not fast enough for her.
Originally Posted by dleague
W is full steam ahead on everything. Counselor suggested that I take some time before proceeding with the D. Maybe 30 days. Said that everything is moving so quickly and I havent had time to process it all. I never thought about it until he said that and I tended to agree.
Again, if your counselor was good he/she would know that this isn't fast for your W.
Originally Posted by dleague
I also talked with a friend of ours yesterday (his wife and my wife are good friends/work together but me and him are also good friends and he called to show support). He suggested that I throw it out there about going to therapy and dont push the issue.
Good advice to not push this issue.
Originally Posted by dleague
Said pick up some nice flowers and just leave her a note letting her know about the time and place and dont be around when she sees it. So I did that.
Bad advice to suggest sending flowers. Prusuit and weakness will be your number one enemy.
Originally Posted by dleague
Well when she came in the door, I was heading out on a phone call with the couples therapist (never been to this person before and wanted it to remain neutral).
Seeing a couples therapist is not a good idea right now. I know why you think it may be but it is not. Couples therapy ONLY WORKS when two people are 100% committed to saving the marriage.
Originally Posted by dleague
I came back in and she met me at the door and said that she would go to the therapy appt if I would go next week to sign paperwork for our dissolution. I told her, regarding that I would like to have some time to process everything that is going on right now and I need to get myself a lawyer as well.
She's manipulating you. Once you sign the papers she will change her go and not participate and then say "see we tried everything".
Originally Posted by dleague
That I feel like everything is moving so quickly like a hurricane for me. From gettin the BD on me, to signing papers to sell the house and dividing everything up all within a week. Of course, she was not happy. She kept trying to reason with me to go next week. Saying the 30 days wont change her mind and there is not any point to waiting since we agree on everything and we just need to get it done and over with.
She will lash out when she doesn't get her way.
Originally Posted by dleague
She said Im going to grieve a loss either way, whether its now or after.
She sounds like a very compassionate person.
Originally Posted by dleague
I told her I understood but am asking for this as she has had time to process all of this before her decision was brought to me. She finally backed down and walked away. Mind you since last week BD, she has been nice and cordial.
Don't be affected by her emotions or moods. She will be cordial when she is getting what she wants.
Originally Posted by dleague
This is the 1st time I have seen her get irritable over this whole thing.
I bet $100 it's the first time you stood up to her.
Originally Posted by dleague
Later on last night after that happened, we were outside with the dogs. I cant remember exactly what started the discussion but we got on how we are where we are. Somehow it got brought up about last week when I took her to dinner and laid it out. She said that she was irritated with how I dressed because I had a few buttons of my shirt undone (she always has liked that). She said that she knew why I did it but it shouldnt have come to this for me to do that. She said that I told her that I wasnt in this relationship for the last 3 years. I of course debated that since I know I told her that I wasnt being the protector, man and husband she needed me to be.
Never start relationship talks. If she does just listen and validate her feelings.
Originally Posted by dleague
Not that I wasnt in this. I was distracted by work, financial stress and home stress and along with relationship stress that I didnt even know how deep that was!
Most men don't realize how deep it is and are shocked at bomb drop.
Originally Posted by dleague
I asked her why she said what she said about rekindling later on and if she meant that or if she was leading me on to get me to sign everything. She said she doesnt know what the future holds.
She's leading you on. Right now she has zero intentions of ever rekindling with you. That could change down the road.
Originally Posted by dleague
She said if she looks at the next 5 years, she doesnt see me in it. but she said that if we both become better versions of ourselves then maybe we could see if we could make things work.
So yeah if you improve and she strikes out with other men she might take you back. Does that sound appealing to you?
Originally Posted by dleague
She told me she doesnt care if I need time and if its next year then so be it but she is going to go on living her life without me. Last night seemed to be the most she has shown emotions since this has all gone down. Maybe not the emotions I am looking to see but understanding that she has them and shown them is somewhat promising to me.
Why is that promising to you?
Originally Posted by dleague
We both were laying in bed last night. Just talking, trying to not talk about this. But I did mention that maybe she should consider the counseling together. If not to bring us to together, but maybe help us both bring some closure and understanding of where things went wrong. I felt like our communication wasnt the best over the last few years and maybe someone could help us understand why or even help us understand where we go from here and if not together then how to do this on our own.
Pressure and weakness will be your number one enemy.
Originally Posted by dleague
She told me she has to work on herself and even if I dont believe it that this breakup hurts her and she needs to heal from that after the D. I told her I understand and we both will hurt from this and need to heal. There was still that proposition of cake. we both were getting out of the shower and she would smile and I would as well. Laying in bed though I tried to make a move and she said she didnt want to because she felt like its causing me confusion and possible hope for us.
Pressure and weakness will be your number one enemy.
Originally Posted by dleague
I told her maybe one day we could or would get back to that but I respect her decision.
Never ever ever be anyone's back up plan. so by saying your respect her decision what did you mean by that?
Originally Posted by dleague
She also confirmed again laying in bed last night that she will go to therapy but only if and when I sign papers.
Manipulation
Originally Posted by dleague
So this morning I tried rolling over to cuddle with her. I have done it every morning since this has all gone down and she has been receptive. This morning she was not. She put her hand up as to push me away. I said okay and I understand. She was down eating breakfast this morning and we both were watching TV. I was of course breaking rules and being a puppy dog in this phase. She wouldnt even look at me though. 1st time this morning that I havent told her I loved her when she left for work. I just told her that I hope she has a good day and she said the same back.
Pressure and weakness will be your number one enemy.
Originally Posted by dleague
So Im not even sure at this point if I should try anything.
No you should try doing nothing.
Originally Posted by dleague
I feel like the last week I have been making myself available for her and breaking more rules that I even realized before I found this page! So have the feeling now that I just going to try to follow the rules here (sandi's rules) and see how that goes because what I have been doing for the last week is not working. Just not sure if I should cut loses now or what my next steps should even be. I appreciate the advice here!!!
You have a looonnnnnnggggg road ahead of you. If you embrace this as a journey and go on a road to self improvement then this may be the best thing that ever happened to you. If you just stand still and try to hold on you will suffer more pain than you can ever imagine. The choice is yours. Good luck!
I agree with your counsellor. There is no need for you to rush into signing any agreements. W, obviously has some speedy agenda, and is even trying to coerce you into signing. (Weaponizing sex .) Be very wary! Get a lawyer.
Yes, W is not going to like you standing up for yourself and standing up to her plan. Don’t worry about it. Let her send your L the proposal and your L will respond to her’s. You let her do the work as she’s the one wanting out, you just respond, after giving things a proper review.
Originally Posted by dleague
suggested that I throw it out there about going to therapy and dont push the issue. Said pick up some nice flowers and just leave her a note letting her know about the time and place and dont be around when she sees it.
Flowers and loving notes are going to keep reinforcing her justifications and feelings. You need to be dim or dark. She needs to feel the loss of you, before other feelings that she is keeping down have a chance to rise within her. Other feelings like guilt, shame, loss, grief, and such. Feelings that would be more helpful to your cause. Right now, she is high on her BD and her new shiny fantasy life. And a fantasy is really hard to break through. She needs her reality, from her actions.
Originally Posted by dleague
So Im not even sure at this point if I should try anything. I feel like the last week I have been making myself available for her and breaking more rules that I even realized before I found this page!
It’s ok to try something. However, if it doesn’t work, don’t try it again for a good long while.
Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.
Don’t sweat it, we all break the rules at the beginning. You’ve told her you don’t want this. You’ve been available, even extra available. Been attentive and so on. And none of it has altered her path. You cannot control her. Her decision to change has to come from herself.
So, some do’s and some do not’s for your path and healing/growth:
Do read DR. Do focus on you. Do GAL. Do 180s. Do continue IC. Do not suggest couples therapy. Frankly, it likely will be wasteful and just push her out the door faster. Do not sign anything for a month. Do find a lawyer. Do not move out of the master bedroom. (This issue is likely to come up. Let her go to a spare room, or the couch, she’s the one wanting out. You stay put.) Do stop cake eating. She’s going to use it against you. Take your power back. Do give time and space. Do start a hobby. Maybe something you put away long ago. Brush the dust off it and pick it back up. Or start something new, like learning to play an instrument. Do go for walks. Do exercise. Do have faith and hope. The future is unknown and unwritten.
Another thing for you. Stop arguing with her. You’ve told her your side. No need to mention anything again for a good while. Instead, if/when W talks, seek to just validate her feelings.
W is still speaking to (with?) you. If she was just done and done, she’d not say anything. Therefore, she wants to be heard. The LBS often miss this, and end up so desperately trying to get their view across, that they just dig that hole deeper. Do listen and validate. In conversing with W, less will be more.
Remember, validation doesn’t mean you agree or condone her behaviour or plans. It just means you see her feelings as valid, as she has the right to feel as she feels. Important: Do not try to talk her out of her feelings.
Originally Posted by dleague
She said that she was irritated with how I dressed because I had a few buttons of my shirt undone (she always has liked that). She said that she knew why I did it but it shouldnt have come to this for me to do that. She said that I told her that I wasnt in this relationship for the last 3 years. I of course debated that since I know I told her that I wasnt being the protector, man and husband she needed me to be. Not that I wasnt in this. I was distracted by work, financial stress and home stress and along with relationship stress that I didn't even know how deep that was!
Your position was to defended yourself. This just influences fighting. And fighting begets fighting.
Validate, not debate.
For things/allegations that are true, definitely own them and apologize. (Don’t get caught up on assuming all the blame either. Consider things carefully, and when real, own your part.)
You did the best you could with the tools you had. Going forward, read books, read advice, ask questions, grow your toolbox. Kind of the heart of DB right there. Becoming better not bitter.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Welcome! I just joined myself a few days ago because of my own "crisis". I feel I've been self-centered so far on this forum and only focused on my own pain so I figured it's time to start engaging with others' situations. Since I am just learning at this point, I'll just say I believe we have found a great community here; "partners in pain" so to speak :-) Hang in there!
Sorry you find yourself in this all to familiar sitch. I arrived here back in 2008. This site will give you the support you need. I was reading 2-3 books a week. Check out my book list for ideas on places to make personal improvements.
Everything that works is counter-intuitive. Everything that your natural instincts tell you to do is most likely wrong.....
These are wise words:
Originally Posted by DnJ
The best, fastest way to any possible reconciliation is in the opposite direction. She needs to feel the loss, before she’ll feel something else.
If you are like most of us when we arrived here, you have to make significant changes to your beliefs, behaviors and most important, the way you interact with her.
Go for the low hanging fruit first. Drop all of the non-attractive traits. Start adding attractive traits. Do not be supplicating. Always be on your purpose. Do not be boring. Accentuate your male traits. Do not be a simp.
Learn as much as you can about seduction. It is an indirect way to attract.
Put your sexual needs on hold. If you do engage with her, she should be pleasantly surprised by your new behavior in bed. New behavior in bed EVERY time from this point forward. Do your research now. It is a lot of work, but worth it. From this point forward, you want her pursuing you for sex, not the other way round.
No more discussions. STFU is your new rule. Every time you speak, you lose. Do not share your thoughts about anything. You use your words with her for two things: 1) Validating her emotional state, 2) build attraction and sexual tension.
Dig down this rabbit hole: "SILENCE IS MENS Strongest Weapon"
If you do decided to speak, the less you say, the better. "Yes." "No." "I am not sure." "I have something important to do." "nothing you need to worry about".
Change the way you sound. Do your research on tonality, infliction etc. Start with "The Charisma Matrix" on youtube.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. It is extremely important for you to get up to speed as fast as possible and expand on every one of the points I have made as well as points others make to you.
Most do not make the changes fast enough or in the right order.
Read through my quotes thread. That will give you a jump start. Take notes. Organize your notes into topics.
At the end of the day, this has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you. You have been given a gift to become the most amazing version of you. Hopefully she notices and is attracted to the new you.
Starting right now, look different, act different, be different...and do not be boring. She thinks she knows you, prove her wrong.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Welcome! I just joined myself a few days ago because of my own "crisis". I feel I've been self-centered so far on this forum and only focused on my own pain so I figured it's time to start engaging with others' situations. Since I am just learning at this point, I'll just say I believe we have found a great community here; "partners in pain" so to speak :-) Hang in there!
Welcome man! yea def some great resources here. Alot to consume and understand and digest. Im still trying my best to wrap my head around all the advice while still dealing with the "crisis" at home. Good luck man!
I agree with your counsellor. There is no need for you to rush into signing any agreements. W, obviously has some speedy agenda, and is even trying to coerce you into signing. (Weaponizing sex .) Be very wary! Get a lawyer.
Yea nervous on this one. She is pushing things full steam ahead. We already agreed on everything even the spousal support that I would owe her. I fear that if I hold off on signing she will get some of the proceeds from the house selling and then come for more money later on spousal support. If I agree and get a lawyer and sign sooner than later then I feel like it locks things in where she cant change that then.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Flowers and loving notes are going to keep reinforcing her justifications and feelings. You need to be dim or dark. She needs to feel the loss of you, before other feelings that she is keeping down have a chance to rise within her. Other feelings like guilt, shame, loss, grief, and such. Feelings that would be more helpful to your cause. Right now, she is high on her BD and her new shiny fantasy life. And a fantasy is really hard to break through. She needs her reality, from her actions.
Yea the flowers were a drop and she didnt even care or say anything. Debating if I should just pitch them at this point since they just sit there and are a reminder to her of me pushing/trying. She acts like this whole thing doesnt even bother her right now. I feel like she will stumble for sure when she goes on her own because of all the little things I did for her throughout the years. But she is a strong person and pretty independent and has a great support system.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.
how do you know what works since this is only a week old. I feel like this last week the more I try to understand and talk with her the more she pulls away and detaches. She doesnt show any emotion about it but says laying in bed last night that she has to better herself and even though she doesnt show it she said it hurts her and she will have to heal from this.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Don’t sweat it, we all break the rules at the beginning. You’ve told her you don’t want this. You’ve been available, even extra available. Been attentive and so on. And none of it has altered her path. You cannot control her. Her decision to change has to come from herself.
Agreed. She made this decision. I want to get her back but feel like I need to sit back and focus on myself and getting my own head right as well as getting this house together to sell. Shes around and Im around but not much talking. So kind of trying the dark/dim method but feel like she isnt going to respond to it. She is a very decisive person and sticks to her decisions.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Do not move out of the master bedroom. (This issue is likely to come up. Let her go to a spare room, or the couch, she’s the one wanting out. You stay put.)
She actually just moved to the basement when she got home today. She said earlier that she was going to wait until the end of the week. Im sure actions last night didnt help. But she said she feels like its the next step and needed so I dont get confused and think there is still a chance or anything
Originally Posted by DnJ
Another thing for you. Stop arguing with her. You’ve told her your side. No need to mention anything again for a good while. Instead, if/when W talks, seek to just validate her feelings.
For things/allegations that are true, definitely own them and apologize. (Don’t get caught up on assuming all the blame either. Consider things carefully, and when real, own your part.)
This is hard. Spoke with a counselor today that suggested I still let her know that I messed up and what that way. He suggested that I dont go on about it. Just a simple statement and leave it alone. Said I should do it while she is still living here. She plans on moving out once we have an offer on the house. So torn on do I go dark or do I remind her that I f*d up and own that?
