My wife and I have been married over 35 years and have been empty-nesters for almost a decade, with three adult children far away.
My big question here is how much could her change in antidepressant regimen be responsible for the sudden (to me) change in her feelings toward me, or is it just a convenient excuse for me?
My wife gave me the BD a few days ago with these details: I was no longer the man she needed I'm unable to connect to her emotionally the way she needs It's because of certain aspects of my personality she can no longer live with She says I can't change and doesn't want me to I've been a wonderful husband in many areas (dependable, great provider, that kind of stuff) I've been an absolutely wonderful father (no qualifications given there) I deserve someone to love me for myself the way I deserve to be loved There have been many things she hasn't felt comfortable to talk to me about because I can't relate She stated no interest in trying to work things out She still loves me deeply I asked if saying I was not her "soul mate" was accurate, and she said she said that was "too harsh" of a statement
After my wife gave me the BD I couldn't sleep and found this this thread, and thus this forum (and other people in the same boat as me):
I thought our marriage was doing great, we were still madly in love, completely connected by our shared adventures and experiences, our dreams of traveling together, etc.
The 20 years or so of our marriage were loving but often extremely stressful for me. My wife often had outbursts of anger toward me, usually accompanied by verbal abuse (and occasional "mild" physical abuse where she would hit me but not enough to cause injury). She would often apologize and feel remorse after an episode. We both blamed her emotionally-abusive childhood for her anger issues. She went on antidepressants about 15 years ago and I feel it saved our marriage.
About ten days ago she made some kind of change to her regimen because she didn't like how her drugs were dulling her sexual response. Unfortunately I don't even know exactly what she was on I've been afraid to ask for fear of triggering an argument. She said something about "quitting cold turkey". This is complicated by her doctor being on vacation a couple more weeks. I know she tried to reach out to the fill-in doctor but was totally unsatisfied by the answer, so right now she's waiting for her regular doctor to return.
I asked if it was possible her feelings were influenced by her antidepressant change and she insisted it wasn't related, because she's been having these feelings about "us" for years and just felt like telling me now.
I'm still suspicious because she tried to switch antidepressants about two years ago had kind of an emotional crisis, so I believed she resumed her old regimen.
I'm also puzzled by her motivation to ditch her current antidepressants to improve sexual response if she didn't intend on continuing our marriage relationship. We had sex a couple days after she quit her drugs and we agreed it was helping her. Then a couple days later she no longer wants to be married to me. She doesn't give me any indication she's trying to have an affair or anything.
Also she doesn't want me to leave either. She's afraid of being alone. I feel our adult kids would be devastated if we split (we always had a "forever" marriage). I feel it's been a "rock" of stability in their lives as they try to make it on their own.
We have briefly chatted about what it could mean for us to be separate and I'm actually becoming comfortable with the thought of being single again. But sometimes feel so devastated by giving up our future dreams together. However if I do anything "rash" I might feel later that I was totally stupid since she might be influenced by the antidepressant situation.
Right now I'm planning on just being "chill" around home about the situation, being pleasant to be with, continuing with my work and interests, trying to avoid giving her any stress or pressure, and waiting for her doctor to get back to see if there's a medical problem here!
We all come here looking for the magic bullet. The only magic bullet is to set her free and give her a chance to miss you. Until she misses you, she will feel like you are the person to blame for her unhappiness. Focus on your personal growth and make positive changes to your behavior.
You have found a good support place. Just keep posting. Others will be along...weekends are kinda slow.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Welcome to the boards. I am sorry you find yourself in your situation. I was like you, and stumbled upon this site while seeking answers on the internet. This place is really awesome. Lots of kind and compassionate folks here with much hard-earned wisdom.
I’ll include a copy of Cadet’s welcome post at the tail end of this post for your reference. There are quite a few links with lots of good useful information.
Do you have a copy of MWD’s Divorce Busting book? I’d suggest getting a copy and read it cover to cover, a couple of time. It’s a very good resource.
Keep DR, this site, and the techniques and strategies you learn about close to your vest. Do not tell W all the positive learnings, as she will see it as you trying to manipulate her. If you use a family computer, ensure you wipe the browser history and such too. At the moment, she is not on team buck.
Originally Posted by buck1
My wife gave me the BD a few days ago with these details: I was no longer the man she needed I'm unable to connect to her emotionally the way she needs It's because of certain aspects of my personality she can no longer live with She says I can't change and doesn't want me to I've been a wonderful husband in many areas (dependable, great provider, that kind of stuff) I've been an absolutely wonderful father (no qualifications given there) I deserve someone to love me for myself the way I deserve to be loved There have been many things she hasn't felt comfortable to talk to me about because I can't relate She stated no interest in trying to work things out
This is pretty typical bomb drop fare. W is projecting upon you. Laying “her” justifying blames and faults upon you. All while following her “new” feelings and justifying her decisions.
Many of the spouses feel something - trapped, bored, old, whatever - yet don’t understand why. And they don’t dig into it. Their feelings becoming their beliefs of their “new and authentic” life. And us LBS are now just holding them back.
The more you try to logically and rationally explain to W, the more you try to wake her up to the reality of her new course, the more she will fight and push to get away. As R2C wisely stated, time and space, letting her feel the weight of her decisions, is the only magic bullet. She needs to feel the loss of you and the relationship. Until she can realizes/feels this, she will not turn back.
Originally Posted by buck1
She still loves me deeply I asked if saying I was not her "soul mate" was accurate, and she said she said that was "too harsh" of a statement
She’s not out the door. She’s having mixed feelings. Lots of hope here.
You focus on you. Give her time and space, for she’s going to take it regardless. Become less available. She did after all say she has no interest in working things out. However, in my experience and opinion, folks who truly have zero interest in such, do not speak about it, they just do it.
Do not engage in relationship talks. None. Even she brings up an R-talk.
When she initiates conversations and shares her feelings, validate her feelings, listen to what she says. Realize validating is not condoning. You are simply acknowledging her feelings, not giving justification to her behaviours and/or decisions. It takes a while for most folks to learn how to walk this, at first, fine line.
Speaking of at first, you will most likely find the DB suggestions and advice to be quite counterintuitive. It will feel wrong. Perfect normal, most of us have life experiences and defaults that pull us in a less than helpful direction during this martial strife. Like I said, at first. In time, and with understanding, DBing becomes one’s default.
W’s change to her antidepressant regime could be troubling. Antidepressants effect neurotransmitter population, they increase it, and this affects one’s emotional state. Her going cold turkey is, from my understanding, never the preferred method of ramping down a dosage. Also, any changes should be directed by her physician. By the sounds of things, W has self prescribed her new dosage of zero.
Stopping antidepressants brings about a change in most folks within a few days or weeks. There is also usually a withdrawal period from such medication alterations. Just enacting such a stoppage sans medical advice or oversight is ill-advised. However, not much you can directly do in this matter. Hopefully, W gets to speak with her doctor soon.
As W coupled her long term antidepressants with other therapy, like counselling? You stated she started medication 15 years ago, and it saved your marriage. I’m inferring she has some issues inside her, which perhaps she has continued to ignore for the past decade and a half. Things buried alive, do come back to haunt.
So, yes it is possible that her sudden going cold turkey has had a significant and dramatic affect upon her emotional state. Antidepressants don’t directly control one’s feelings, they increase the number neurotransmitters, which has a positive influence on one’s mood and emotional state. An increase in neurotransmitters influence and reinforce positive feelings that are already present, and at the same time lessen pain and hurtful emotions. It’s a regaining balance thing, not a stifling of depression. A sudden removal of such would have quite a shift.
Hope you days is going well, and I look forward to conversing with you.
DnJ
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Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thanks for your replies! Posting here is therapeutic. I don't really have anyone to talk to, but I could seek a variety of counseling options for myself through my employer if I want it.
I'm not sure how to become less available without moving out. I've been working from home since Covid. My routine has been to do a number of things for her every day, e.g. getting her car warmed up and ready for her to leave in the morning. I've been doing this because I enjoy doing things to help her. However I could move my work area to my "Man Cave" in the back if necessary. Currently I'm out front all day every day, the first thing she sees when she comes in the door, and in the same room as her in the evening when she's watching TV.
Today was a tough day. I've been feeling anger over my perception of her ingratitude and her total indifference to how she's ruining my life right now. Sometimes I feel so ready to leave and start my life over but am not sure how to take that step.
Have you read Michelle’s book DR yet? It’s time to start doing 180s. Stop doing stuff for her, move your work to your man cave or better still why not take your work to a cafe for the day. Being around her will anger you it will frustrate you it will make you cry. Remove yourself from her dragging you and your mood down. Turn your focus on you and start doing stuff in your day for YOU. Not her anymore. She tossed you aside when she BD you. Now start working on yourself find 3 things a day to do for yourself that’s positive to help lift your mood. You are still so early on in this. The anger the resentment the expectations. Get the book and read it. Then re read it and read each and every article in the welcome. Then read others stories and journeys. It’s all therapeutic. You’re not alone. This path is rubbish. It really is the worst pain I have ever felt and has been horrible for 10 months but we get so much better out of this. We come out better
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
Hi buck1. Sorry you find yourself in this situation.
I want to emphasize Pattnee's advice, as it is all relevant. I don't do most of my work at home, unlike you, but I do a bit of it there. I conduct that and any other things I want/need to do in a separate space from my wife. If you can move your work into your man cave, do it. You shouldn't be the first thing she sees when she comes in the door. Do not do things for her unless she specifically asks and even then, pause and consider what she is asking for. If she is asking you to solve a problem (she's had a flat tire, lost a license plate--that one actually happened to my wife--car broke down, etc.), you are busy and she will need to get help herself. (Most everyday problems can be solved without you helping her and if she really wants to leave you, she will have to learn to solve them herself anyway).
She is undoubtedly confused about things. Unless there is domestic violence, substance abuse, etc., most spouses who leave a marriage seem to feel something is missing from their life. They may or may not fully know what it is, but they have become convinced that you are the reason they don't have it. They seem to be disillusioned about their life up to this point. They look ahead and think, "There has to be more than this," when, previously, "this" seemed to be enough for them. Her statement that you are no longer the man she needs jumps out as particularly relevant, since it suggests that at some level she recognizes that she has underlying unhappiness with her own life that she is projecting onto you.
Consider that she says things like:
I was no longer the man she needed I'm unable to connect to her emotionally the way she needs It's because of certain aspects of my personality she can no longer live with She says I can't change and doesn't want me to She stated no interest in trying to work things out
And at the same time:
She still loves me deeply I asked if saying I was not her "soul mate" was accurate, and she said she said that was "too harsh" of a statement
It is hard to understand how that first group of thoughts and the second both coexist in the same brain.
Also, as DnJ said, if she is making her own decisions about changing medication regimens without a doctor's advice, that is not a good way forward.
Hang in there. It's not an easy road ahead. But if you look at your own life and what matters to YOU, and concentrate on that, you will be better equipped to handle the storm.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
Thanks for the replies and support everybody! I can't tell you how much it helps me.
I haven't purchased or read Michele's book yet, but will ASAP since two of you mentioned it! I stumbled upon Brad Browning's eBook "Mend the Marriage" before I found this site and have been working my way through that. So far I'm about halfway through but I don't find it that helpful to my situation. It's not specific to the husband or wife (I'm not sure if Michele's book is the same here or if that matters) but Brad's book seems to start with the premise that the LBS is in that situation because of his or her shortcomings, e.g. rudeness, inattention, sarcasm, verbal abuse, etc., and the solution is to fix yourself to become the "ideal spouse" that's a joy for the WAS to be around and doesn't cause any conflict or stress. Eventually the WAS remembers why they fell in love with the LBS and everything is good. This could be premature since as I mentioned I'm only halfway through. I have my shortcomings of course but feel I've already been checking most of the boxes of the "goals" the LBS should aspire to :-)
I have trouble sleeping more than a few hours (e.g. this morning I woke up after four hours with a churning mind and got out of bed). It occurred to me that I could sleep in the guest bedroom starting tonight if that helps.
Yesterday was extremely stressful for me to the point where I felt like throwing up because I started suspecting she might already be cheating in some way. We've always shared our phone GPS location with each other. A couple days before BD she stopped sharing her location with me and our kids. She was tired of knowing that even her family could track her. She's been spending more solo time than usual away from the house so I calmly asked her directly if she already had someone she was interested in. She replied, "not really, I'll let you know if it gets to that". I'm not sure what "not really" means.
She's clearly extremely bothered by some other issues unrelated to me so I might be "collateral damage" in some sense. She's black (I'm not) and she's been torn up for months about the apparent rise of open racism in the US. Several months ago (so long before changing her drug regimen and BD) she left the church we've been happily attending for years because she felt there were too many people hanging onto racist attitudes there, which I agreed with.
A few weeks ago (so also before the drug change and BD) a VERY close friend of our whole family just died of cancer. This was another emotional shock.
I've been supporting her through all this to the best of my ability but maybe these issues have contributed significantly to our problem.
In a couple days we both have an appointment to be guest-speakers in a local university course on families to share our experience being an interracial couple with successful kids, and will tell the story on how we met, fell in love, struggles we went through, etc. I've been looking forward to it and I have no doubt my wife will be charismatic, entertaining, funny, and a delight to the students.
Mental Illness is tough on both the individual and the family. My guess is that you've been heavily involved. So a huge 180 for you would be to pull back and let her go
1. Stop asking where she is going, what she is doing, or who she's hanging with. 2. Move your office space to the man cave so you have less interaction with her. This will help your mental health 3. Stop initiating all help towards her mental health. No more encouraging her to take her meds, talk to a doctor. Nothing. 4. Lay down some strong boundaries. Abuse of any kind is NOT okay. No mental heath group, therapist, hospital, etc will ever say trauma or mental illness excuses it. It's your W's responsibility to deal with her trauma and mental health - no one else.
This is gonna feel very uncomfortable to you. In some ways you have probably been enabling her behavior with "your help". It's time to stop all that and focus on you. You can do that w/o being mean, angry, blaming or shaming... You are taking care of yourself. It does not require her approval.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I have trouble sleeping more than a few hours (e.g. this morning I woke up after four hours with a churning mind and got out of bed). It occurred to me that I could sleep in the guest bedroom starting tonight if that helps.
I’d recommend staying in the master bedroom.
It’s very common for folks to have sleeping difficulty for a little while. There is a lot of stuff churning away which takes time to sort out, grieve, and accept. A different bed doesn’t change that.
Sleeping medication can help. However, I’d first explore exercise. Exercise has many benefits. One of the big one in these situations is sweating out one’s anger and feelings.
Anger is part of grief. You are grieving, you have experienced a great loss. There is denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and eventually acceptance. Note, these stages of grief are not linear, and one can and does cycle back and forth between them.
Doing something strenuous accomplishes lots of things: focus on you, get a life, letting go.
Go for a run, dig a garden, shovel snow, hit the punching bag, push-ups, and such. It turns our anger and feelings into physical activity. An excellent way to work through one’s feelings.
You can only control three things - you thoughts, your actions, and your reactions. If you notice, your feelings are not directly controllable. However, you can/do influence your emotions. Being active is directly controllable. And this will promote positive endorphins and boost your mood. Thus allowing you to sleep more soundly and for longer. And of course, it will tire you out too.
Do some good exercise, have a nice hot shower, then enjoy your comfortable master bed and sound slumber.
Go at it with that attitude. How one approaches something does affect one’s outcome. You are much more likely to have a better sleep when you do things to promote such.
Originally Posted by buck1
I haven't purchased or read Michele's book yet, but will ASAP since two of you mentioned it!
Glad to hear it.
Michele’s approach is pretty singular in the ocean of relationship advice. Divorce Busting is a rational logical thought out approach to marital strife. It’s a passion, a mission of her’s which shows in her writings.
For what’s it worth, MWD’s book starts out with having one clear their mind of those preconceived ideas of why one is in the situation they are in. A beginner’s mind, an open mind, is sought. Then one looks at things clearly and take actions accordingly.
Originally Posted by buck1
Yesterday was extremely stressful for me to the point where I felt like throwing up because I started suspecting she might already be cheating in some way. We've always shared our phone GPS location with each other. A couple days before BD she stopped sharing her location with me and our kids. She was tired of knowing that even her family could track her. She's been spending more solo time than usual away from the house so I calmly asked her directly if she already had someone she was interested in. She replied, "not really, I'll let you know if it gets to that". I'm not sure what "not really" means.
It is staggering how many folks have affairs. My wife did, and I’d have bet my life she’d never have done any of the things she did.
Focus on you.
W is going to do what she is going to do. You cannot control her.
Affairs, cheating, are band-aids, are mere symptoms of deeper issues within the cheater. The behaviour of a broken person. Realize, you did not break her, therefore you cannot fix her. This doesn’t mean she is having an affair. Nor is “not fixing” only pertinent to an affair. W, is emotionally hurt and somewhat broken, which is demonstrated in her distancing and listless behaviour. And she needs to look inside and fix herself.
As mentioned, she is projecting her ills upon you and the marriage of over 35 years. Such long term loyalty and love, sadly gets the brunt in these situations. It’s why R-talks are off the table for a while. You don’t want to enlarge the target she has painted on you. Simultaneously, you do not walk on eggshells or be all timid either. You live your life, love you life, and let W catch up to you.
Have a great day buck.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
