I’m back :(

[Pattnee5]

Take a deep breath Card. The day is yours to make of it as you choose. Get out and get sunshine, try and eat something, go for a walk. Make sure you do 3 positive things for Card today. The nausea feeling was alway the thing I hated most. You’ve got this. Believe in yourself

[Card29]

In regard to “lifelong” friends the good thing is it’s never too late to form new friendships. My H is in a very silly position whereby he has no friends other than a handful of school friends from 30 years ago. Even though he has lived in our state for 20 years and had “ friends” along the way from work, he lets those friendships go. Friendships take work to form and maintain. I guess as with everything it’s put in the too hard basket. He is also an introvert so I suppose that’s out of his comfort zone. He would have benefitted from friends now while he goes through his MLC

It’s never too late to make new friends. Find a local hobby, maybe a sport? Or something that involves groups of people whereby friendships can form? There’s always so many things, there’s running groups if you like being fit, or else what about other dads in your community with young kids? Don’t put so much pressure on yourself right now to change everything at one. Allow the emotions and grief to flow and don’t look more than a day ahead. Wake up every day and find 3 positive things to do just for you. On days I am busy it can even just be something simple like a bath, or putting on my favourite music while I finish dinner.

I undersold my local support group a little. I do have friends, I have just not been around them much lately with everything going on at home. I'm reaching back out and will be fostering those relationships more intentionally.

Take a deep breath Card. The day is yours to make of it as you choose. Get out and get sunshine, try and eat something, go for a walk. Make sure you do 3 positive things for Card today. The nausea feeling was alway the thing I hated most. You’ve got this. Believe in yourself

I woke up early to help D11 get ready for school and showed her to the bus stop. Then I laid back in bed. At this point I was still feeling ok. Then I started looking around the room and realizing again what was going on. I got that unsettling feeling, which turned to anxiety, which turned to nausea, which escalated and intensified. Started sweating. Actually vomited, which I hardly ever do. But that helped. That process squeezed out some tears, too. Even though it wasn't emotional, sad crying, it felt like a small cry haha. I felt better after that and got S1 up to start our day.

Now I'm at work and have to find a way to focus some today. It will help me, plus I'm way behind on work. I've told my boss what's going on and he's very supportive. I've been in a rut at work, but I am thankful for how supportive of a company it is.

And regarding getting out, getting sunshine, walking, etc. I agree those things will be huge helps. Unfortunately they might be off the table the next 2 days. Temperatures are at near record levels with very high humidity. It actively stinks outside with how nasty it is. Thankfully we get relief on Friday with a bit of a cool down.

[Card29]

DnJ, thank you for all of your thoughts. I hate that I'm back, but am also so thankful for the people here.

Regarding D11, I’d not divulge too many details just yet. Certainly answer her questions honestly and age appropriately. And if things around the home between you and W have been declining for a while, D11 may have more of a handle on things than you figure. She may ask some difficult questions. Do not lie. Ever. You can tell her you can’t talk about it right now and will discuss later. Or I don’t know, however, I will discuss this with you when I do. Things like that, just ensure you do get back to her.

Explanations can be pretty vague right now. And they are. For you don’t know the underlying cause or reasons.

What daughter needs, and you need to ensure, is that she doesn’t blame herself. In your conversation with D11, you explain the problems are only between you and W. Tell D11 you love her. And are there for her.

I was going to wait until after our counseling on Thursday to tell D11, but I'm think I'll tell her tonight. She asked about W 3 different times last night. I can't play it off 3 nights in a row. She luckily didn't notice she wasn't at home this morning. Thank you for your advice. I need to be intentional about sparing unnecessary details. I have a tendency to overshare.

Your W is obviously depressed. Her MS, possible deterioration, poor treatment from her MIL, new baby, new responsibilities, and so on; one’s plate can get overfilled in short order.

You are correct, it is pretty rare for a walk away wife to behave such. A WAW is walking away from their husband and marriage, not their children. Five weeks away from her one year old son, and for her to feel next to nothing. To even consider she could have remained away and not missed anyone, illustrates a lot of depression. That withdrawal into self. Such inner suffering, that the world and others doesn’t really register. W simply doesn’t have the bandwidth.

However, she recognizes it, and is attending consulting. Both good things. Do be supportive, and listen when she feels like talking. No pressure. Just validate her feelings. She has to find her way out of the darkness.

It has hurt to see how much W has struggled. I am a "fixer" and I've tried to offer help where I saw a need. She tends to not want any help. She likes doing everything herself without asking for anything. I think that's one of the deepest fears she has with her MS, that eventually she won't be able to do anything for herself, or a lot of things. She already had to lean heavily on a fellow teacher just to get through last year. That was another reason she wanted to go to Europe by herself, to prove to herself that she could do it. She spent many of the days by herself, essentially backpacking. That was one of the aspects of her trips that I liked, seeing her feel empowered.

Let go the fear of seeing daughter. It’s likely not rooted in seeing D11, or even talking to her; those are merely triggers to an imagined unwanted future. Fear highjacks one’s emotions and produces powerful feelings which are not directly causal. Rationalizing the trigger, event, and imagined future, helps uncouple that tangle of feelings.

It was wonderful to see D11 yesterday. I knew it was irrational. I'm not as fearful to talk to her today. At least that's how I feel right now.

Remain in the house. Also remain in the master bedroom. You are wanting the marriage, and willing to work for it. You are responsible, and care and provide for your family, especially son and daughter. Ensure you display that.

If W wants to live elsewhere, let her. If she wants to sleep on the couch, let her. You don’t!

I'm definitely not moving out right now. The worst part is my mom living 2 doors down. I'm sick about her right now. And that's an entire different question.

**What should I say to my mom about this?**

I'm thinking I shouldn't divulge too many details yet. But I also I don't see how I can just say "she's not happy in our marriage and we're separating right now". She's going to flood me with support like she did last time, and I don't want any of it from her. Realizing how awful my R with my mom is is another pain in this situation that I haven't begun to process yet. But if I tell D11 tonight, I'm going to have to tell my mom at least the basics, too. I have no problem ripping off band-aids and exposing the sores, but it feels too early. BD was 2 days ago and WAW and I have not really had a conversation since, only logistics talk.

[Card29]

My sister had some advice for me regarding talking to my mom. She said all of us in our family and extended family suffer from not setting boundaries, from oversharing (I just admitted to this in a post in this morning, so she's spot on). She said I don't have to tell her anything beyond the necessary right now. That W is unhappy and we're separating right now and working through some things. And she also suggested set a boundary - "I'll share more later when I'm ready, but right now I need some space and would like to keep this within our family for now".

She also told me that her and my mom have talked about mom's issues before. Mom admits she still wants to operate like we're her children (S38, D36, D35) and not adults. It explains a lot. She over buys, over helps, over provides. I think W has felt trampled by this, like she is an unworthy W, step-mom and mom. If that's really my mom's mindset, she doesn't want someone marrying and supporting her child, supplanting her role. This is gross to think about, but I have to know.

[Card29]

I called and told XW what is going on due to D11. We get along fine and she's happily remarried, but I won't be sharing many details with her, only what's relevant to D11. She told me her sister is divorcing her husband right now, too, and XW just told D11 about it a couple of days ago.

I'm going to call for counseling for D11 now.

[DnJ]

Good Morning C

Breathe. Just breathe.

Deal with the here and now. Work to let go the catastrophe-making. The future is unknown and unwritten, let it unfurl.

W has known MIL for seven years now. Sure, your Mom’s attachment and perhaps over-protectiveness towards you and your siblings is exacerbating the situation, yet it isn’t the final nail in the coffin. You and W are in counselling. Still speaking. And so on.

Give W some space and time. Validate her feelings when she shares. Be the lighthouse.

Do re-read DR. Acting as if, and a beginners mind I think will be very useful for you. As well as a solutions journal. Remember, the path is made of many small steps. Just keep moving forward.

**What should I say to my mom about this?**

I’d likely not say anything at this moment. Let things progress a bit first. See what W does. When she returns home, and what arrangements she proposes, for example.

I do agree with your sister’s assessment, sounds like some boundaries on your and Mom’s relationship would be helpful. You, nor W, can control Mom, only yourselves.

I wouldn’t hesitate to pick W over mom. In hindsight I should have set more boundaries and distanced ourselves from her more. Although the problems existed long before we moved to her street.

One needs to prioritize their marriage and kids. And yes, too much interference is not a good thing.

Going forward, when the opportunity arises, admit this to W. Not plead, nor beg, just acknowledge and apologize for not seeing and understanding the interference and slow erosion of you two. And work to rectify it.

I started getting a sinking feeling for our marriage a few months ago. We’ve started counseling, but she’s already out the door.

I empathize with your feelings of dread. Remember, feelings are fleeting. Do not reinforce them. Look to the facts of your situation, more than projected feelings and the imagined future.

To me, W is not yet out the door. From the sounds of what you’ve shared, she’s not given the ILYBNILWY speech. She sounds rather frustrated and overwhelmed. I believe there is plenty of opportunity to turn this around.

W tells me the primary problem in our marriage is MIL.

Neither her nor you married MIL/Mom. You married each other. MIL’s problem-making can be removed from the martial equation in pretty short order.

Breathe. Make it through today. Let tomorrow figure itself out tomorrow.

D

[Card29]

I've re-ordered DB/DR.

This quote was regarding talking to my mom and D11:

I’d likely not say anything at this moment. Let things progress a bit first. See what W does. When she returns home, and what arrangements she proposes, for example.

I don't think W is returning home anytime soon. I just had a phone call with her. She's worried about our D being long, drawn out and terrible like her parents' D was. She's already thinking about D. She's going out of town next weekend. I know she's in chaos, maybe has a taste of freedom, and is just thinking there's no way she can come back. I know that can change but I don't think this is a case of she wanted to spend a couple nights at a friends house to clear her head and will come back this weekend and we'll make next steps. I'm not trying to hyper analyze what she said, but I gather that this separation is at least going to go on too long to hide it from D11. And if I say something to D11, I'll have to tell M.

Do you still think I should try to hold off on these conversations? Stall D11 with an answer like "she's staying at a friend's house the next couple of nights" and not hint at any marital problems?

One needs to prioritize their marriage and kids. And yes, too much interference is not a good thing.

Going forward, when the opportunity arises, admit this to W. Not plead, nor beg, just acknowledge and apologize for not seeing and understanding the interference and slow erosion of you two. And work to rectify it.

I will try to wait for the right opportunity. I'm going to have to fight my tendencies to push for this. I can tell she is in no mood to talk about problems or solutions. She implied she wishes the D could be done and over with, pain free. I think she just wants to be out of pain and sees that as the way. I think she has a painful road ahead of her. I don't think this is just about MIL.

To me, W is not yet out the door. From the sounds of what you’ve shared, she’s not given the ILYBNILWY speech. She sounds rather frustrated and overwhelmed. I believe there is plenty of opportunity to turn this around.

The BD conversation lasted maybe 2 minutes. I feel like there's a lot she hasn't told me yet.

I'm trying not to give my hopes up that it's just about MIL, which I agree should have relatively straightforward solutions. I still think it has a lot to do with her being fiercely independent, and losing that independence with MS and her inability to do her job. I know I'm playing armchair therapist with that, but it's been my gut feel for a year now. Her MS/Job issues and MIL have been the things she has talked about the most the last year.

[Card29]

I told D11 tonight. She asked about W again, and this time said she hadnt been here all week. Felt like I couldnt avoid it without lying. I told her she’s staying at a friend’s house for the time being. We both love her and S1, emphasized it was not her fault or S1’s. W is going through a hard time, and we’re both seeing counselors. Our marriage is our responsibility, not hers. I told her she can ask me anything anytime. I might not always have the answer, but she can ask and I’ll never lie to her.

She was upset but wasn’t outwardly distraught. She asked if we were going to be okay and if we were going to get a D. I said I dont know what will happen in the future, we arent getting a D right now. I said we will all be okay, and that I will always be here for her and S1, that they are my #1 priorities.

I told her that me and her mom think it’s a good idea for her to see a counselor to talk to. “Nothing is wrong with you, it’s just good to talk to someone when there’s a big change.” Said that we were both seeing counselors, too.


I did also talk to my mom but kept it brief. We’re currently separated and we’re working on it within our family. She offered help, food, sodas. Went into hyper help mode like I knew she would. I politely refused. I wont be talking to her much about it anymore right now until I’m ready and have some counseling under my belt.

[DnJ]

Well done Card. That was a good conversation with daughter (and Mom).

[Pattnee5]

Amazing Card I think you handled that so well with your D.She will know and understand more than you think ( kids always do) but she may not openly say it yet. Let her process and think and always make her feel comfortable to come to you with questions etc. it’s funny when all of this went down with my H and his BD he was adamant we tell the kids “we both need space it was mutual” and even threatened me if I ever told the kids otherwise he would NeVER come home. Can you believe that? Looking back now I can see how darn right manipulative this was for him to avoid his actions.
Anyway fast forward a couple of months D14 tells me all the time she knows he walked out and has a lot of issues. I asked her how she knows and she says “ I’m not dumb mum, dads depressed and has no friends and drinks a lot” Kids are a lot more observant and smarter than we think. S12 has made hints too but a little more “doesn’t care” I think being male etc. I’ve always maintained neutral and never we mouth off about H and offer nothing but support. My kids will never have anything bad to say from this experience about me because I haven’t behaved like an immature MLC spouse
Keep up the work on yourself. Don’t forget to do something positive for you every day