My Story (2)

[Sunflyer]

What a disaster.

Her: “Can we talk?”
You: “I’m cooking my dinner, and then I’m going out to see a friend/to the gym/for a run.”

That’s it 🤷‍♂️

Every time you engage, you lose. You can never say the right thing. No-one on DB.com can teach you what to say, how to “win” these conversations or what are the “right things” to say to get your spouse back. It can’t be done.

If they say “I feel like…” you say “okay, it sounds like you’re feeling…” and then you leave. Validate and leave.

If they ask for a conversation or interaction, the answer should always be “I have plans”.

She has filed, lawyers are engaged on both sides. She expects me to be working on financial statements next week. This conversation did not touch on winning her back. At all. That's the reason I avoided explaining why my sister is upset with her, because that would have resulted in bringing up the core issues again.

So whenever she wants to talk settlement terms, I should simply refuse and walk out. Believe me, I'd be more than happy to do that, but at the same time, constantly putting up roadblocks, stalling, and avoiding that topic could end up making for a less favorable settlement on my end.

Yes, I know marriages have come back later than this.

Needy behaviors and pleading were cut off long ago. I am trying to find a balance between working toward the desired outcome (not getting divorced) and the likely outcome (getting divorced and being able to survive afterward).

[DnJ]

Hello SF

She’s filed. I’d listen to what she has to say. You might just find some negotiation room you didn’t know about. Also, she has something to say. You can hear her out, and still not engage (much).

Her: “Can we talk?”
You: “Certainly. I’m all ears.”

whenever she wants to talk settlement terms, I should simply refuse and walk out.

That just adds fuel to the fire.

You let her do the heavy lifting. You listen to her proposals. You respond (which may be “That’s interesting, I’ll need to think about that”. Of course, the official response would be through your lawyer. All this is not placing barricades in her path, and not paving it in gold either.

Do have a time limit for the dialog. Once expired, make your exit. Its good to be the one who leaves the conversation first.

It is a difficult balance to find. Some validation, some STFU, and some GAL. I think you are doing well with it.

D

[Kind18]

So she’s filed and you both have lawyers?

Well that makes it even more important not to negotiate with her on your own.

Tell her to talk to your lawyer.

[Sunflyer]

Just a short update. Nothing too exciting.

S17 goes to college next week. W and I will be taking him up and helping him move in. We relate well when dealing with kids or talking about day to day things. Outside of that, there is little discussion. We basically treat each other like the people behind the counter at a store, or the librarian behind a desk. Neither of us brings up anything R related, and frankly I like it that way since I don't expect any positivity on her end.

W has recovered enough from her surgery that she's starting to work back into her side hustle some evenings. So back to several nights a week when she's not home and "Let's order dinner from somewhere" or "Get me a hamburger and I'll see you later."

She hasn't brought up the pending D for a while, but I suspect that's because she is busy with work and preparing to get our son to college. I am working on getting as much of my financial statement done as I can. I get weekly messages from my lawyer asking, "How's it going?"

The boys are great, and a big source of my happiness and gratification. Took S13 to a late night movie, which is something he enjoyed, and I suggested that this could be something special we could continue to do in the future.

I continue to pursue fun things for myself and to clean out and pack up my basement room. My daily thoughts are now mostly preoccupied with my future and what I want out of the rest of my life. The uncertainty used to alarm me, but now I'm more intrigued by it. I feel pretty good about myself and that W's negative attitude about our marriage was just weighing me down. Let her deal with it; I need to be rid of it.

[Sunflyer]

This is mostly a vent, but I am open for advice.

W continues to launch venomous tirades against my older sister.

Basically, my sister has stopped speaking to W since W announced intention to D. But W doesn't speak to my sister about this issue; she speaks to me. These "conversations" are a thinly veiled attempt to try to get me to elaborate on what my sister and I talk about when we see each other (which these days, is nothing about W). I refuse to rise to the bait, because this will start an argument, and besides, I think it should be fairly obvious. Every time this comes up, in my head I'm thinking: SHE'S NOT SPEAKING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BLOWING UP THE FAMILY AND WON'T CONSIDER ANY OTHER ALTERNATIVE.

My sister has likewise stopped speaking to W's parents and brother. Latest incident was yesterday.
We had a combined birthday party for S13 and going away party for S17 as he leaves for college Wednesday. My sister completely ignored W, her parents, and brother entirely. No hellos, goodbyes, not a word spoken to them. And they are Italian and if you know Italians, they take half an hour to say goodbye after every family gathering. While I don't necessarily justify this, my sister is a big girl, and I can't make her fake something she doesn't feel.

Inevitably, after one of these encounters, W starts the complaints. I've heard some variation of the below several times now (including tonight).

"Your other sister has texted me constantly, asking how I was after my surgery, etc. Not one word from your older sister. Not one. Regardless of what is going on between us." (Note: W spoke to my other sister regarding our situation without my consent, thus pre-empting anything I would have said, so that my other sister is now in her corner and supports her ending our marriage).

"She totally ignored my parents and brother, who did nothing to her."

"We had her favorite kind of pizza yesterday. I bought her a party favor. She said nothing to me."

"Does she say anything about me when you are alone with her?"

"Her attitude is disgusting." (W likes that word).

"She loves those boys, and she needs to remember I will always be their mother. But I will not say anything to them about her behavior because I do not want to poison their relationship with her."

"Your sister has always resented me. I believe she thinks I stole you from her." (My older sister and I have always been close and shared a lot of time together before I got married).

"I hope she likes being alone on holidays or with her friend that she runs around with."

She also made clear that sister is now out of any future rounds of playing happy family at Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. (I'm sure my sister would be terrified to hear that lol).

So, like I said earlier, I don't justify sister's behavior but I do understand it, and I listen, validate, and bow out with as few words spoken as possible. Not sure there's any more I can do.

[Sunflyer]

Unrelated question: I added a signature to my profile.

How do I make it appear on the posts?

[Pattnee5]

We can’t help how our family treats them. They have seen the hurt caused on us. My mum is very much the same with H. She is angry and has every right to be as she has had to pick up the pieces of me. She feels very disrespected by him too. All she says to me is that’s her boundaries and he made his bed he can sleep in it. I don’t tell H anything that mum says to me or her feelings. I think she’s ready to unleash on him but biting her tongue. Mind you this is the same woman who treated him like a son, treated him better than his own family have and welcomed him with open arms always. He would always say she was more his mum than his own mum.
She had every right to be hurt and we aren’t responsible for them
Makes life tough and I know my mum would eventually welcome him back with open arms should we reconcile. But it’s not our responsibility for how others treat them. She’s done this there are concequences with actions.

[DnJ]

Hello SF

Unrelated question: I added a signature to my profile.

How do I make it appear on the posts?

I can see your signature. Perhaps you need to refresh/reload the page.

One’s signature is displayed at the bottom of their posts, not embedded/appended within them. As such, your current signature is what is displayed on all of your posts.

Let me know if you are still having problems and we can work to resolve it.

D

[Sunflyer]

Dropped S17 off at college. Left Wednesday and came back Friday. Took his car and W's as there was a lot of stuff. Actually, he overpacked, filling eight large packing bags, so he had to sort out non-essentials, and we ended up bringing home one and a half bags, mostly of clothing.

I rode with both sons in S17's car, and he drove all the way there (4 1/2 hours). W drove by herself in her car, and on the way home we switched, with S13 riding with her and me driving S17's car alone. It was a good ride getting there, although I had to periodically remind him about watchful state police and speed limits. (He hit 90 MPH in 65 MPH zones a few times).

Leaving him was bittersweet, of course. He thanked us for everything we have done for him. He hugged me and said, "Dad, I will make you proud of me." I told him I was certain he would. I told him I would not contact him every day, but that I would every so often and asked him to please answer (probably a few times a week).

W said to him, "I have to hear from you every day." This is the way she is. She was raised that you have to speak to your parents every single day. Why don't I insist on hearing from him every day? Because he wanted to spread his wings, and the time is here to let go somewhat. He has to have some freedom, and that includes the freedom to make mistakes and figure out how to fix them, the freedom to rely on himself.

I make no apologies for this. I was brought up this way. I was much closer to my mother than my father, but even she didn't need to know where I was at every moment, even when I was a minor roaming the neighborhood. I handled myself fine, and I know my son can do the same.

The drive home was therapeutic for me. By myself, in the car, went through some beautiful country (even though it was cloudy and periodically raining). I see solo road trips in my future.

W and I got along fine on the trip. Now at home, we plan for when we will see son next (in about a month, at parent's weekend at the college). And once again we are back to dealing with financial statements and D plans. W said she dropped it for a while to "give the boys a somewhat normal summer."

Meanwhile, my mind is full of future plans. I worry less about what she thinks every day. I'm keeping the shorter hair I graduated to over the summer; I like it. I have plenty to keep me busy. I have lost about 10 pounds and feel pretty good.

[Sunflyer]

Quick question: How does one respond when your W isn't trying to speed up the D process, but your own L is?

Got the statement of net worth about five weeks ago, and have been working on it. Nowhere near finished. W's isn't either (at best a little over half done), and she's had hers longer than I have, probably a good two months or more.

L sent a message yesterday basically asking me to upload completed work, which is fragmentary at this point.

With work, boys, getting S17 ready to go to college, etc., I didn't envision having dozens of pages of financial data completed in five weeks. Nor was I given a deadline to do so.