A little less lost? Pt 3

[Pattnee5]

Thanks Kind. Yes the clean slate as hard as it is I think is a much easier option. I think H has one foot either side of the line hedging his bets and still in his limbo. I think I was still so emotional wanting to hold on to the house for hope or just in case or to be that lighthouse but in reality it’s me just still grasping at his pant leg waiting. A friend told me he needs to sit on his blister.
As much as I didn’t want to message him today I had to send him a message about our dear dear friends daughter who passed away. She was 12 and extremely close with our son growing up. The message reply was very indifferent and cold. Initially I got a bit frazzled by this, mainly because he never used to lack empathy or emotions like he does now but then I quickly remember “I can’t control him and his thoughts” . Just another realisation that the Alien occupying his body has stripped him.

[Kind18]

I know you don’t realise this… but from where I’m sitting, you’re making good progress.

Something I think you’re ready to start thinking about - expectations.

These are the cause of your fear and pain and anger. It’s really important to have realistic expectations.

You said above “mainly because he never used to lack empathy or emotions”.

Do you think that perhaps, even just a small part of you, messaged to make a connection with him through an emotional topic? I’m guessing part of you thought “if I message him about a 12yo friend of his son who has died, I’ll get some sympathy or emotional connection with him when he replies, says thankyou and agrees with it’s sad. Then I can feel a bit like the old Mr Pattnee is hiding under the monster somewhere.”

And, completely true to recent form, he’s been a un-emotional troglodyte.

What happens then? You get disappointed and have to go about reminding yourself you can’t control him and his thoughts.

Don’t get me wrong, that point where you consciously realised he is not in your control shows excellent progress. Eventually, you didn’t take it personally and rationalised it as him being an alien atm.

Next level DBing will be for you to amend your expectations so that you are never surprised. Sometimes that might mean you don’t even send information that you know he won’t be interested in.

Other times, that may mean you message him (perhaps for your son’s sake) but knowing he won’t take it on board. Perhaps even sending it with “no need to acknowledge or reply, but son’s friend died and it may be important for you to know that.”

If you cut off a reply before it happens, you won’t get disappointed. Also, he won’t feel trapped into an interaction and so won’t respond like a Neanderthal.

You know what the definition of insanity is? Trying or doing the same thing over and over, but each time expecting a different result.

Next time, write down a list of the five absolute worst possible answers he could reply with. Then when you hit send, you might be pleasantly surprised when it’s something half supportive.

One of the most helpful things during my recovery was when I would text screenshots of my freak-show’s emails or texts and responses. I’d be so angry - omg, look at this complete b****, she’s a nut-job.

Other friends would say “Yeah that’s total BS, can’t believe you have to put up with that.”

My brother, on the other hand, would shrug his shoulders and say “Yeah, that’s pretty consistent with her previous behaviour. What the hell were you actually expecting?”

That was really good therapy.

[Pattnee5]

Thanks Kind I think someone touched on expectations a while ago for me so now it makes so much more sense. Expect nothing 😂. Some days I think I am not doing it perfectly so this really helped. Thank you a tiny compliment and win.

H finally came home from his “trip” and wanted to see Kids tonight S12 was cooking ( we have been doing a lot of cooking lately and wanted his dad around.) I thought I would be fine because honestly I feel grounded. He came in all friendly and wanted to help with some household chores but everything was sorted for the school day ahead tomorrow. All had dinner and then kids wanted to play a board game which I politely declined and finished off cleaning up and doing their lunches. S then was getting a bit crazy like all 12yo boys and wanted to do some dance moves and wanted me to help which I did and we had a great laugh and dance around the living room. H standing back smiling observing the scene in front. Mind you he had just come off a 20 hour transit and flight was jet lagged and had a few wines. Told me I am doing a kick ass job with them and praised me which I thanked. He was hanging around a lot talking praising wanting to interact and show a few photos of his trip. I think the jet lag and the drink started to build up by the time he left the switch flipped right at the moment he had to walk out the door and some anger came out toward me just a snarky comment about having no choice and he had to leave and couldn’t kick me out and he’s living in a rubbish place with no fridge ( 😂🤷🏼‍♀️ well of course you walked out) I just said very calmly “ you know how I feel about you and about us and that I want to make it work “ it’s funny he was fine until he had to walk out, went from happy chirpy to angry like a wave washed over him
Look o probably could have said it a lot better but I remained calm and it’s all I could think about. He walked out all flustered and angry. And that was it. I realised afterward that while he was with the kids he had downed quite a few glasses of wine and even made a comment about taking some sleep aids he picked up overseas to get his body clock back in order ( over the counter sleep pills like Advil PM)

So while that whole scenario was pretty rubbish and I could have done things a million times better like maybe leave the house it actually didn’t phase me at all being there and I felt quite indifferent toward him. Almost more felt sorry for him. I was proud of myself at the end though. A few months ago I would have bombarded him with texts apologizing ( for doing nothing wrong mind you) tonight I didn’t even bother once he left I just left it at that and I won’t reach out until he wants to touch base.

I do think maybe I need to put my foot down about drinking around me anymore as I am done being the human punching bag when the anger comes out. I just don’t know how to say it nicely without basically calling him an angry drunk.

Another small win tonight for me is I feel fine about it all. I don’t feel like I am pining anymore I actually am thanking my lucky stars that he doesn’t live here at the moment as I think the drinking is really becoming an issue and I don’t want that around me and the kids or be the one having to deal with sorting that out. I can now see he has an even more massive road to recovery and getting out of whatever midlife issues he’s having just to get on top of the substance issue. I know the jet lag would have exacerbated things but just the switch flip as he was leaving wasn't great. As I said I kind of just shrugged it off and a bit like water off a ducks back.

Any advice on handling things better here appreciated and any constructive nice sentences I can use about setting the boundary about not drinking around me. I am a little fearful of the reaction of that one.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Patt

You did awesome. Well done.

…I could have done things a million times better like maybe leave the house it actually didn’t phase me at all being there and I felt quite indifferent toward him.

Nope. You don’t have to leave your house when someone come to visit.

…by the time he left the switch flipped right at the moment he had to walk out the door

You didn’t flip his switch. H flipped his own switch.

S then was getting a bit crazy like all 12yo boys and wanted to do some dance moves and wanted me to help which I did and we had a great laugh and dance around the living room. H standing back smiling observing the scene in front.

Lovely. A wonderful family and moment.

I’m sure H enjoyed it too. Living in that world again, for a moment or two. Then, he “had” to leave. Of course, he has difficulty accepting responsibility for his decisions so he projects and blames upon you. And got mad and lashed out, at you. Well, maybe more at the situation.

…and some anger came out toward me just a snarky comment about having no choice and he had to leave and couldn’t kick me out and he’s living in a rubbish place with no fridge

He is mad at having to leave. Living without a fridge. Residing in a rubbish place.

Hmmm. Nothing about Pattnee in that.

Further hmmmm. Perhaps H had a glimpse that you aren’t the cause/reason for his unhappiness.

Of course, he still was snarky. Emotional turmoil and all. Still, a rather positive interaction methinks. And handled really well be you, by not jumping at his bait. Indifference and self control on your part. Well done girl.

you know how I feel about you and about us and that I want to make it work

This could have been better. Understandable given the sudden switch flip at the door and catching you off guard. Pretty sure, looking back you see how this is a relationship talk and not validating his “angry kick myself due to a lack of a fridge” feelings.

That being said, I’m not sure that validating would’ve been my doorway reaction either. Probably more a truth dart. “Yes, I’d not like having warm beer cause of no fridge either. Have a good night.” <Closes door>

I do think maybe I need to put my foot down about drinking around me anymore as I am done being the human punching bag when the anger comes out. I just don’t know how to say it nicely without basically calling him an angry drunk.

any constructive nice sentences I can use about setting the boundary about not drinking around me.

I think what you said above is pretty good.

“H, I do not wish to be around you when you have been drinking. I feel like a human punching bag when your anger comes out. Therefore, if you are drinking I will not see you.”

Regarding fear of stating such a boundary. Drop the fear. Drop the expectation of reprisal or some such. It’s odd how we expect the worst. Why do we not expect H would agree with you?

That’s another problem with expectations, there are more ways to miss an expectation (both positive or negative expectation) than meet it. Rather, hope H see the wisdom in such a statement, and just deal with whatever happens.

That’s kind of being fearless in a nutshell. Don’t fret on what might happen, just deal with what does happen.

Have a great day.

D

[Kind18]

You did awesome. Well done.

💯💯💯

H flipped his own switch.

Yup. 1000%

Of course, he has difficulty accepting responsibility for his decisions so he projects and blames upon you. And got mad and lashed out, at you. Well, maybe more at the situation.

Exactly what happened here. Mr Pattnee had to lay down in that bed he’s made for himself. He didn’t like the consequences of his choices. Too bad, so sad.

Tell me, how is this a Pattnee problem? His dumpster fire, not yours.

Perhaps H had a glimpse that you aren’t the cause/reason for his unhappiness.

Wouldn’t that be nice! Probably very unlikely this early on though.

And handled really well be you, by not jumping at his bait. Indifference and self control on your part. Well done girl.

Yep, absolutely nailed it.

This could have been better.

DNJ is right, it could have been better. Something like “You must feel sad having to go back to a crap rental, that sounds pretty tough” would have been perfect.

But like DNJ says, validation in the heat of the moment is really hard. And as R2C (I think it’s R2C but can’t be sure) says, the best way to learn validation is to CONSTANTLY practice outside of your relationship. With your friends, at work etc.

“H, I do not wish to be around you when you have been drinking. I feel like a human punching bag when your anger comes out. Therefore, if you are drinking I will not see you.”

Regarding fear of stating such a boundary. Drop the fear. Drop the expectation of reprisal or some such. It’s odd how we expect the worst. Why do we not expect H would agree with you?

That’s another problem with expectations, there are more ways to miss an expectation (both positive or negative expectation) than meet it. Rather, hope H see the wisdom in such a statement, and just deal with whatever happens.

That’s kind of being fearless in a nutshell. Don’t fret on what might happen, just deal with what does happen.

Have a great day.

This is an EXCELLENT summary of how you should handle this. If he throws the toys out of the pram because of your boundary around alcohol, that speaks entirely to his problems and insecurities than it does to yours.

I’d probably go one step further:

“H, I do not wish to be around you when you have been drinking. I feel like a human punching bag when your anger comes out. Therefore, if you are drinking I will not see you. No need to reply as I won’t entertain a discussion around this issue, as it’s a firm boundary. You are absolutely welcome at any other time to come and see the kids 👍”

One last thing… do you know what sleeping pills he’s medicating with?

You should go and make a dated/witnessed statutory declaration about his drinking and use of sleeping tablets and keep it on file. If things deteriorate, it will be useful to have.

[Pattnee5]

Thanks D and Kind. I felt like a new person handling this. In the past I would have profusely apologised( for nothing really other than making him angry) and followed up with a message or two. Last night I realised I actually did nothing whatsoever wrong so why should I apologise. In one breath he praises me and says I am an amazing mum and doing a kickass job and then half an hour later the Hulk emerges. I do remember he threw in a comment too basically saying “ you know the reason why I did this “ basically to insinuate the affair from 9 years ago. I let that slide too I realise now that he possibly wanted me to start begging and apologising again. I did nothing. I’m not to blame for this, I think now I deep down know he has a lot of other underlying MLC issues and is just trying to bring me down too. Obviously he has trauma around what happened and we had dealt with it and moved in for 9 years but maybe deep down he never did deal with it too. I used to deal with these episodes so wrongly the last few months. I think I am finally getting it.

Regardless I have woken up calm and balanced today and not letting this bother me at all.H is a long way off any sort of self awareness and it is useless if there is alcohol involved.we crossed paths briefly outside a few hours ago and didn’t look great at all, asked if he “was bad” last night because he couldn’t remember.he said he sensed he went bad as he left bur can’t remember what he said and started apologising and crying. I just said I wasn’t prepared to repeat it and moved on with what I was doing. Goodness me this isn’t a fun game that’s for sure
But I’m good today. 3 positive things for me each day. One- went to the gym for a great workout, 2- taking the pooch for a walk along the beach later this afternoon, 3- going to enjoy watching the women’s world cup soccer tonight ( which I don’t really like soccer)

[Kind18]

Newbies - THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT.

Absolute boss Pattnee 😎

[Pattnee5]

Omg STOP kind ☺️☺️
It’s only taken me 4 months of doing it wrong.
I can’t believe I did it properly for once

I think the biggest thing was the realisation that the marriage is over and we are headed to lawyers and separating. I think the fact I know it’s “done” in my head and stopped fighting it may have made it click ( plus some stern words from you guys)

I did slip up once just in passing this morning when he was saying he doesn’t know why he was so angry and agitated. I just mentioned in a very calm way that I too had noticed those personality changes and to me it was very similar to the way his dad used to act many years ago( around the same age). H used to always hate the way his dad was and treated his mother and would always say to me “ I never want to get like that please make sure I don’t”
I didn’t say anything bad but I just gently reminded him of how much he hated the way his dad was in his early 50s and how much it bothered him. He took that really well surprisingly maybe just my calmness. I know now I shouldnt have said anything as that’s R talk and I needed to avoid it at all cost but you live and learn

[JosephS]

Thanks D and Kind. I felt like a new person handling this. In the past I would have profusely apologised( for nothing really other than making him angry) and followed up with a message or two. Last night I realised I actually did nothing whatsoever wrong so why should I apologise. In one breath he praises me and says I am an amazing mum and doing a kickass job and then half an hour later the Hulk emerges. I do remember he threw in a comment too basically saying “ you know the reason why I did this “ basically to insinuate the affair from 9 years ago. I let that slide too I realise now that he possibly wanted me to start begging and apologising again. I did nothing. I’m not to blame for this, I think now I deep down know he has a lot of other underlying MLC issues and is just trying to bring me down too. Obviously he has trauma around what happened and we had dealt with it and moved in for 9 years but maybe deep down he never did deal with it too. I used to deal with these episodes so wrongly the last few months. I think I am finally getting it.

Regardless I have woken up calm and balanced today and not letting this bother me at all.H is a long way off any sort of self awareness and it is useless if there is alcohol involved.we crossed paths briefly outside a few hours ago and didn’t look great at all, asked if he “was bad” last night because he couldn’t remember.he said he sensed he went bad as he left bur can’t remember what he said and started apologising and crying. I just said I wasn’t prepared to repeat it and moved on with what I was doing. Goodness me this isn’t a fun game that’s for sure
But I’m good today. 3 positive things for me each day. One- went to the gym for a great workout, 2- taking the pooch for a walk along the beach later this afternoon, 3- going to enjoy watching the women’s world cup soccer tonight ( which I don’t really like soccer)

This is honestly one of the best updates/posts I’ve read for quite sometime. Kind is absolutely right, this is how it’s done! You keep at it, you’re gonna be ok, and it sounds like you know it!!!

This is what the beginning of success looks like. We can’t all save our marriages, but we can all save ourselves!!

[Pattnee5]

Thanks Joseph I feel like I am finally coming out through the storm. I don’t even know when that moment happened that I realised I needed to let go. No matter how much all the experts kept telling me I still just clung on to saving saving saving. Then a few weeks ago it just flipped. I think possibly the defining moment was when H said he was contemplating a job overseas for 6-12 months, and still doesn’t feel any different and can’t see himself coming back home or holidaying with me.
I think I just went into overprotective mother mode and thought “ no way are you hurting my babies by running away”. I think it was my lightbulb moment and once it clicked I started to really think of all that has happened with a much more balanced mind and realised just how rubbish H has been and that he does not deserve me.

I think I am really starting to see what my true values are and what I want from my partner and what I deserve, and unfortunately H is a very long way off that now. It’s nice to feel like this after all the months of pain. My heart doesn’t physically hurt anymore, I need to mend my own wounded heart and I am. I don’t actually even want him to come home now. He is not good for me or my kids.

I was with D14 the other day and she was saying about how disappointed she is with her dad and how he won’t listen to her and stop drinking or get help. She said she likes it much better at home without him now and said “mum you would be an id**t to take him back now”
I think that really hit home to me that I hadn’t even looked at it from my kids eyes as I was too self absorbed in trying to “win” him over and back home. My kids are much more settled and calmer and in a great routine and I do anything for them without an eye roll or a grunt or stressing out.
I think another big thing is when our dear friend lost their 12yo daughter on the weekend. It really puts into perspective just how precious life is. And H must have some skewed perceptions of what he values. He is a middle aged man with a great job, great salary, house in a beautiful suburb with healthy kids and a wife that absolutely adored him and was prepared to fight to the ends of the earth for him. What more could you really want. I don’t think he will ever be truly happy anymore and I am done being dragged down with him.

The gym is certainly helping. And I try and do 3 positive things for ME every day. Even just as simple as running a bath and relaxing for an hour. Interactions with H no longer phase me I don’t have to act or do anything different I am just being me and treating him just like any other person.

In a way I want to instigate the talks of legal separation so I can start to move forward more with my life and not be locked in limbo where we are still sharing finances etc. I feel a bit captive with it, but ir will certainly mean the house will be sold. A clean slate and new beginning. H doesn’t look like he is in any rush to do anything as the worlds biggest procrastinator. It’s been 8 long months since BD for me.
I think I am really going to be ok now.