This is going to be long, but I’ve been married for 43--almost 44 YEARS--so there’s a LOT to share.
My husband (known as *C*) finished his surgical residency (ENT, 6 years long) in 1991 and began a fellowship in Nashville in late June of that year. We moved, all five of us—our three sons, my husband and me—into a new culture with no support from family, little money but with hopes this Otology Fellowship (one of the best in the country) would be the ticket to a fulfilling life for all of us. It was a disaster, with C being abused and scapegoated and finally being “fired” four months into the fellowship. C’s self-esteem took a nose-dive.
I had been substitute teaching in the school system in Nashville during his fellowship and continued to do so while he looked for locum tenums in the area because we had NO MONEY to move back to the Chicago area and our families. The thought was he would find something temporary that would pay the bills while he looked for something permanent back north. He found a position at Fort Campbell, Kentucky—45 minutes from Nashville—taking care of military dependents. Within a month or two, he was having an emotional affair with the mother of one of his young patients. We had been married for 12/13 years at that point.
My first experience with Divorce Busting was in 1992, soon after the first book came out. Along with a pair of excellent marriage counselors, I credit the 180-technique getting us back on track but not without some unresolved issues. During the last two years of C’s residency, I had been raped and sexual assaulted by my boss, a Presbyterian minister, but had been told by my In-Laws to never disturb, disrupt or bother C with any problem. I was expected to handle everything—from my rape to the robbery of our home and issues with our kids—by myself so he was able to focus on his training. I did handle everything and the rape—but not the sexual assault—came out in our counseling. While C seemed “sorry” I went through that, he didn’t see how it concerned him, since he was “in love” with this other person. I never told him the full story and tried to deal with it by myself with all the ramifications that the rape and sexual assault left behind.
We moved back to Chicago and the southern suburbs, and our marriage seemed back on track and very happy. Our kids were thriving in a wonderful school system with wonderful programs for all of them. Our eldest son, R, has autism and the special ed was outstanding and the gifted programs for the younger two were wonderful as well. There was a local chapter of the Autism Society of America in the area, so there was, for the first time, some support for all of us for his disability. I went back to graduate school for my MM in Choral Conducting. C bought an ENT practice and a hearing aid business. We became respected members of the community, C became a board member of the local professional symphony orchestra, and I had an excellent church choir job, founded a community children’s choir as well as an elite chamber choir. We had symphony tickets and opera tickets and other tickets because we decided it was best to have “built in” dates as our lives were very busy.
Our younger two took piano lessons, cello and percussion lessons and R took swimming at the local special rec. Our youngest, B, is a very gifted musician, playing both piano and cello (and organ and harpsichord), and won three concerto competitions while he was in high school. Our middle son, G, is a very good percussionist and excelled in mathematics and the sciences. R improved with great teachers, but is non-verbal, and will always need care.
When B was a senior in high school, he had some issues and was finally diagnosed with Bi-polar depression. Finding the correct medication was difficult and we pulled him out of school with a tutor so he could graduate with his class. It was not easy. G and B both have multiple degrees—G in mathematics, physics and law and B in piano performance. R had been in an adult day program but during COVID, was pulled out because of infection issues in the facility.
Things were going well—we celebrated our 40th wedding anniversary in 2019 and we were HAPPY—until COVID hit. C was exposed, sometimes on a daily basis, to COVID before vaccinations were approved and it was very scary. R was living with us and B, while he had a decent job, it didn’t pay very well and he lived with us while he prepared, practiced and studied before applying to doctoral programs. During the beginning of the pandemic and restrictions, B, like many with mental health issues, was having problems. He lied about taking his meds and I became the Med Police. All the while, C was upset with me for “complaining” to him about B being “mean” to me when B was, quite frankly, off his rocker!
Always involved with music, I could not have rehearsals and we could not go to concerts. We took online classes and C found a Zoom classical music appreciation class based in Los Angles for “music lovers” and signed right up. I sat in for one or two of those classes, but as a professional musician, it didn’t appeal to me and thought it was shameless self-promotion by the teacher, but C loved it. Everyone thought C was so bright, had so much knowledge about classical music and stroked his ego BIG TIME. C told me I didn’t appreciate him enough and his musical knowledge and mentioned this more than once. His dear, dear, DEAR friends have told him we “married too young,” had children “too quickly” and had “too much responsibility at a young age” and suggested he needs to “find himself.” He’s gullible enough to think they know what they’re talking about.
As 2020 went along, B had more issues which I shared with C and he did not take seriously. As time went on, things with B became worse and in November 2021, B got into his car and drove away, not telling us where he was going and went missing for ten days. We hired a private investigator and, finally after contacting a reporter friend of G’s, got a news story on TV and in the papers—he was found in Jackson, Mississippi. When he got back, we found a new psychiatrist and a new medication which seemed to get him back on track. Five days later, R ended up in the ICU with seizures because he was making himself vomit while I was distracted because of B’s disappearance.
On January 1, 2022, C told me he was thinking about his life (he is now 68) and was going to travel to visit his LA Zoom friends without me because I would ruin it for him. Keep in mind, B had had a mental breakdown and R had been in the ICU only weeks before. I was floored, hurt and confused but getting B and R healthy was my main concern at that point. 2022 went along not so great, and after being accused of being “moralistic,” I finally told C the WHOLE story of my rape and the sexual abuse I endured for the last two years of his residency. He was more insulted that something like that happened to HIS WIFE and what that meant to HIM than what happened to me, HIS WIFE. He was furious I never told him, though he did remember me talking about the rape from our time in Nashville in counseling. Things went downhill from there. He started to see a therapist who seemed to make my always selfish husband more of a narcissist, nastier and more entitled than he ever was.
He took several trips, planning them behind my back, to visit his dear, dear, DEAR friends in LA. We did take a trip together to MahlerFest, ironically in Boulder, CO. Later, I found a receipt for jewelry that was totally out of character (a religious metal—he was raised Roman Catholic but NEVER was religious, so this worried me) and when I confronted him, said I should think about why he would buy jewelry for another woman. I’ve found gifts from some of his dear, dear, DEAR friends as well as cute little greeting cards as well as two empty bottles of Cialis. He’s lied, done things behind my back and then said I had a “secret life” for two years so he can do what he wants. Rape and sexual assault were not my secret life—he did things behind my back; I did NOT want what happened to me to happen.
We began couples counseling in mid-March 2023. We see our therapist every other Friday because of C’s office hours/surgery schedule. We’ve been having brunch and lunch dates the weeks we don’t have counseling and those have been mostly pleasant. I think our counselor is really great and have asked her questions mentioned both in Michele’s Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy and she’s on the right page with her answers. I want our marriage repaired and rejuvenated; C says he wants clarity. I’ve just begun to see a virtual therapist specializing in trauma and PTSD but, again because of COVID, it was difficult finding that sort of specialized therapist taking new patients live.
We’ve been separated—not my choice--since May 5, 2023. It’s a trial separation with no lawyers involved. C has a five-month lease on an apartment in Hyde Park (where he did his residency) and told me his intention was to come back home, now he’s not sure. This separation was not advised by our therapist or anyone else I know, but I think he’s being coached by someone. He says he wants freedom to do what he wants, I was never “into music” as much as he is (I’m “just” a professional musician), I expected too much from him as far as chores, he wants to go to more concerts, I was never into entertaining (not true I LOVE to entertain) and don’t take his preferences into account when I cook--the list goes on. He also said he feels differently about me—he loves me but is no longer IN LOVE with me--after learning of the extent of my sexual abuse, but I TRIED to tell him 30 years ago, he didn’t want to listen to me then.
He told me, while he is gone, he expects me to keep the house and our kids from falling apart and I asked him to honor and respect our marriage vows. I’ve kept up my end of the bargain but am not sure about him. B was a MESS the first few weeks after his father left and I emailed my brother and G every night to let SOMEONE know what was happening. Our couple’s therapist told me I should keep C informed as well but when I did, C was upset I was bothering him.
On July 2, he was home for our family July 4th celebration. Chicago got the most rain we’ve ever gotten on a July 2 so there was water in the basement. While we were finishing dinner inside (it was to have been an outside barbecue), the ceiling over the kitchen table started to leak. I called our roof guy the next day and made an appointment for the day after July 4 so C could be here. The estimate for a new roof was astronomical and we decided to get another estimate and C went back to the apartment but not before he made a crack—in front of B—that he wasn’t sure what to do because things are up in the air between us. B was inconsolable for almost 3 hours; afraid his father would sell the house out from under us and leave us homeless. I comforted him as best I could and since the house is in both of our names, assured him I would not let that happen.
It rained again that night and the water poured from the kitchen ceiling. After I got everyone to bed, I called C to tell him about B and the kitchen ceiling. C was FURIOUS I called him and accused me of stalking him and demanded to speak with B—and after 3 hours of hysteria, I refused, and C said it must not have been that bad if he was asleep. The next day, I took a call from another roof guy C contacted and made an appointment with him. It was a better price and shared with C on our Saturday date. I will not text or email or ANYTHING unless C contacts me first. I am beside myself with frustration. I am going back to the 180-technique because right now, I don’t know what else to do.
I still love him and know our marriage CAN BE repaired. Despite the MANY challenges we’ve had in our marriage, we’ve been HAPPY 95% of the time. We have always been partners, figuring out our challenges together--and always made time for one another. Since the Zoom classes began, there was less and less time for me and our family and any solutions to any issues we were having. But having his ego stroked by a bunch of strangers appealed to him more than working on our marriage. These older people, with no responsibilities, perfect families, houses and lives, caused C to reevaluate his own life and he decided he wanted what they have, despite having a different type of life.
His practice is a sole proprietorship—and he won’t retire until he’s 72--which means I OWN half of his practice and our hearing aid business. I am entitled to 50% of his retirement fund—and a sympathetic judge might give me more—and any kind of divorce would ruin him financially, but not me. In fact, when G (the son who went to law school) heard about the separation, he told me his Dad didn’t think this through. Now G is “Switzerland.”
Right now, C is having a grand ol’ time, going to concerts, cooking simple meals for himself, doing his own laundry and doing God knows what else and I am not able to do anything to improve myself. I am tired, hurt and overwhelmed because it isn’t just the separation but having the RESPONSIBILITY of our disabled son and our mentally ill son solo and being expected, once again, to step up and handle the nasty bits by myself. I know I need to take care of myself not just for me but for our kids. I had a severe panic attack early in the separation, triggered by a story in the local news about clergy abuse, realized I HAD to do something and finally decided virtual therapy was better than NO therapy.
Thank you for allowing me to vent here. The 180-technique has been implemented and any other ideas and suggestions are welcome. Please pray for me! ~MLGA
Welcome to the boards. I’m sorry H has wandered into the weeds, again.
Sounds like the Covid protocols and stresses certainly exacerbated some of his unresolved issues, and of course strained your marriage. Doing a 180 is an excellent tool. Letting go, focusing on you and the kids, giving H plenty of time and space, are excellent as well; and allow you to regain your center and life balance too.
I see H is 68. I’m placing you somewhere in the sixties as well. The kids’ care on top of everything definitely places a lot upon your plate. Ensure your self care. You need to be ok!
I’ve copied Cadet’s welcome thread for your reference. There are several links to much valuable information.
Talk soon, and hope you have a wonderful day.
DnJ
- - - -
Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I am so sorry to read your story teteme and hear you are going through this. What an absolute journey so far. While I am a little younger than you I too am in the same boat of dealing with a H that all of a sudden decided he wanted to walk away, leaving us feeling broken. It’s amazing how we can somehow dig so incredibly deep through all the pain and heartache and still get up every day and uphold our responsibilities for the kids. You are doing an incredible job and while you can’t see it now, you should really hold your head so incredibly high and don’t let anyone take your power. I too was of the thought that the marriage can be saved, I mean MWD says so in her first few chapters. We too were happy too. Then a flip switches in our H head and they basically turn into 17 year olds. Mine has gone the opposite to going out though. I think you are going to find so much love and support on this forum. Keep talking on here and posting. So many have such amazing advice. I am very new to this whole Db scene but the amount I have grown as a person over the last few months is incredible and a lot of it comes from advice and support on here. Post as much as you can and I’m sure the DB community will give you amazing advice, I am sorry I don’t have the best of advice right now as I too am trying to just keep swimming. But remember, we are incredible beings, and we rise through all the adversity and come out the other side even better versions. Keep working on yourself and don’t be scared to lean on family or friends for as much support as you need.
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
....any other ideas and suggestions are welcome...
Compartmentalizing things helps...IE separate the legal part of the relationship from the emotional part from the DBing part etc...
Learn and implement as many positive behavior changes into your life and DB your butt off.
Seek legal advise. Knowledge is power. I believe it is important to get free consults with the TOP 3 divorce lawyers in your area. If your H does choose the D path, the lawyers you visited with are out of his selection pool. (Of course confirm this with a real lawyer).
Look up "Stockdale paradox" and figure out how to apply that to your current sitch. Plan for the worst but hope for the best.
HUGS
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
It's hard to find words for a story like this. I am sorry you had to go through, and are still going through, all of this stuff.
It is comforting to find a place like this. I am reading other forums as well, and am amazed by how many people are living these kinds of painful stories right now, all around the globe. It certainly makes one feel less alone, at least.
You've already come through more than most. Reading your story, I'm not sure I would have made it as far as you have. Here's hoping for a brighter future.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
Thank you DnJ, Pattnee5 and Ready2Change for commenting/supporting me. It's lovely to know folks are looking out for me and know what I'm going through AGAIN. C SWEARS he's not having another affair but it sure feels like it! One of you asked my age--I am 67 and he is 68.
It's been a heck of a day. C's got a dental appointment tomorrow and the dental office called our landline to remind him last night. He is supposed to transfer money for the roofer from our savings account into our joint checking account before I can get the contract to the contractor and the tear-off/roof replacement can be scheduled. The roofer called this afternoon to ask if we accepted his bid--it's all very much the business I agreed to handle but I need the money to do it. I texted Sunday--after we agreed on Saturday that's what we'd do-- to ask him him to let me know when he did the transfer. Nada. I just sat on it--180 ya know--and waited for him. I texted this morning after the roofer called, reminded him about the dental appointment and asked if he transferred the money. Nothing all day and I was getting FURIOUS because it's raining today, tomorrow and the next day. I just want to get 'er done. I wanted to text again (read NAG) to remind him but stopped myself. He finally texted later in the afternoon he was doing the transfer after work and thanked me for reminding him about the dentist. Then he texted a pix of the receipt. I thanked him and said I'd call the roofer in the morning. I will NOT text after I give the contract and deposit to the roofer or tell C when the it's scheduled. We have a couple's counseling session scheduled on Friday and will tell him when I see him. In fact, if he texts to ask about the roof arrangements, I will NOT respond.
Thank you for the Newcomers (I feel like an Oldcomer!) info, especially the Lighthouse piece, it's lovely. I've often thought I am something similar--his safe harbor--when things are stressful, and he's a surgeon so things DO get stressful at times. Being the Lighthouse, guiding him with my light through choppy and rough waters. The Lighthouse is always there--and I am struggling with that right now--but when you've ALWAYS been the Lighthouse, always been there, waiting and waiting--I often call myself the "Lady-in-Waiting"--it's difficult to continue when it's never been acknowledged or appreciated and now suddenly, "not needed." But the Lighthouse remains, always there and always faithful and that's me, always faithful when C hasn't deserved my faithfulness. Am so sad.
I've made a lovely home for him and our boys and this is their place to be welcomed and loved and taken care of BUT it's not that way for me. I made the home for them but their needs take precedence over mine. Our couples therapist observed that I've been protecting C and our children for YEARS but no one is protecting me, not even ME. That is something I am working on--protecting myself and it's tougher than I imagined. C mentioned in our last session, one of the reasons he left is he wanted to punish me. Why? I am not exactly sure but am going to bring that up on Friday. I have my own therapist--for trauma and PSTD--on Thursday.
Thank you, Sunflyer for your comments the other day too!
I am waiting for my own Trauma therapy--it's virtual and in 30 minutes--but have a few questions for y'all too while I'm waiting.
I read somewhere in the forums to NOT give C a copy of DB or DR. I can't find my old copy of DB, but did purchase 2 copies of DR--one for him and one for me--so is that's not a good idea? It was stated that he could interpret anything I do that is suggested in DB or DR as manipulation or worse. Also, to wipe the DB website from my laptop search history, why? He knows I've been reading MWD books again and we each have our own laptops (he has 2, one for work, one personal) and mine is password protected anyway. We have couple's counseling tomorrow afternoon and I was going to give him his copy at that time, and I did mention it to him. I think for now, I won't bring it up and just ignore him if he asks me about it.
I read a LOT about MLC here yesterday--C is 68 (I'm 68)--and C is actually textbook MLC. Most physicians are about 10 years behind their chronological age emotionally--undergrad, med school, fellowship all driven education and training so not being able to mature--so this actually makes sense. We were married about 13 years by the time he finished med school and all his training. But knowing it's a MLC and dealing with a MLC are two different things. It was good to read and KNOW I'm not crazy--it seems like someone was ease-dropping around our kitchen table!
Will probably post more later on. Trying to prepare myself mentally for my own therapy and my mind is racing from one thing to another.
Will share one of my favorite sayings here with you: In a World when you can be anything, be kind.
Yes, do keep divorce busting - the books, the site, what you learn, etc. - to yourself. Any attempting to teach or impart your gained wisdom, will appear manipulative to H. And these folks will push and rebel hard against manipulation, be it actual or merely perceived.
DR is your playbook. It’s a path for the LBS, for the left behind spouse. The spouse who is looking for a way out will use it against the LBS.
If H knows you are reading MWD, that’s ok. Don’t preach it to, or share it with him. You communicate it by living it. H is the one who needs to decide to turn his path around.
A few other things regarding manipulation, or suggesting stuff to H. He is on his path, and on his timeline. You didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him. This is especially true for MLC.
If you did actually stop his crisis, it would likely only last a while. And the next time he is triggered, his crisis would be worse. I’m kind of wondering if perhaps his last time years ago was prematurely truncated.
Anything you do, no matter how well intentioned, will likely be pushed against by H. The most common outcome from a LBS’ well intentioned efforts/manipulating is a delay of their spouse’s path. At best, it’s neutral; at worst it stalls out the journey.
However, the real big reason - responsibility. MLC is horrible!! A LBS does not want any responsibility for their MLCer spouse’s behaviour, decisions, or the fallout upon their own head. Let H do what he will, let him be the sole owner of that.
Let go with compassion. Seek understanding. We all require a certain amount of understanding before we can/will let go.
You, my dear, are not crazy! Hang in there, and keep moving forward.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you DnJ. I really am taking your comments to heart. We've been in counseling since mid-March and I think in many ways, our counselor realizes he is in MLC and is trying to get him to take responsibility for many of his actions. I know he's not been especially happy with her that he's getting "hammered" for NOT taking ownership for his BS. She called him out on some of his stuff today, and the lightbulb went off in his head, I saw it, and think maybe he's getting a clue.
I think we had a break through today in counseling. We started out saying by we had a lovely lunch date last Saturday and how we were working together for our roof repair. And then for the next 35 minutes we complained about each other and talked about how C did this and I did that and it was back and forth and back and forth, years and years worth of complaints. I gave as good as I got I am ashamed to say because it's hard NOT to say something back when C brings up something so petty and something I thought was long forgiven because it was so much a NOTHING in the grand scheme of things.
Our counselor scolded us, telling us the only way we can heal our marriage is to stop bringing up the past--we've both been hurt by the other person FOR SURE--and start forgiving each other. She mentioned we seemed to have a nice time with each other and seemed to be working together for our house repair, why can't we work together for our marriage repair? She likened it to ripping the bandage off our hurt and injured marriage, ripping out the stitches, letting it get infected and expecting to heal. She said she used this analogy specifically because of C being a surgeon. She wants us to understand what forgiveness is and WORK ON IT to heal. She will have forgiveness handouts for us next time (she thought she had some in her desk and asked us to FORGIVE her--see what I did there--when she couldn't find them). C talked about "forgiving and remembering"--she said of course you'll remember but that doesn't mean you can't forgive. I mentioned hearing somewhere NOT forgiving someone is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to die and also forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Anyway, it seemed like a real breakthrough. I vow I will no longer bring up the past in counseling--unless it's a good memory or something--even if he does.
The roofers will be here either next Thursday or the following Thursday--depending on when they can get the building permit and how soon the jobs ahead of us can be finished because it's raining like CRAZY here in Chicago--and C wants me to keep him informed. We plan another date next weekend. I really want to go to the Art Institute with him but if it's "just lunch" that is okay for now. Other than the roof repair, I will not be contacting C this week until we plan our date. I have to let him know what's happening because he has to make another deposit in our joint account to finish paying for the roof. Not contacting him this week, other than to remind him about the money for the roof, seemed to make a difference to a certain extent with his attitude toward me. I'd forgotten how quickly the 180 works on him!
I am trying to research some fall repertoire for my choir--and it's really hard because I'm having trouble concentrating--and some organizing of rooms because I've been distracted for months and piles of JUNK has accumulated. The organizing is just the ticket--mindless stuff and I can see I've accomplished something at the end.
That's all for now. But when our counselor talked about FORGIVENESS, I had hope. I HAVE HOPE!
I've been a professional church musician most of my professional life. I've always prayed but often just perfunctory prayers. Since C left, I've prayed more sincerely and it's helped me and my frame of mind. Today I had a strange experience that I'd like to share. You can take it as you will but I choose to feel better and stronger. And I'm DBing the heck out it!
It was a strange day, with haze from the Canadian wild fires adding to the strangeness. The weather here is crazy--it rained last night BIG TIME, sun shower this afternoon and tomorrow night is supposed to be violent storms, hail etc.--and I wasn't able to do a few things I had to do planned outside. Plus, am worried about the leaks so covered the grande piano and put a bucket under the kitchen ceiling leak.
I decided to take a nap this afternoon because I had an awful headache--things with C really got to me today and self-care seemed like the best way to spend the afternoon. I got into bed and dragged out the afghan C's Grandma made for me for one of my bridal showers and closed my eyes. I couldn't relax and started to pray. I prayed for some little thing to remind C why he fell in love with me. I prayed for his heart to open again for me and our family. And I prayed that I could remain above it all, not text or phone or email--and prayed for strength to do it--and to not to tell him I love him. I finally dozed off while I was praying.
Thirty minutes later, the landline rang and it was C. I answered and it didn't seem like he heard me--and then he answered. He apologized because he butt called me, after getting off the phone with son G. I asked if he was still in the south suburbs or if he was in Hyde Park. He said he was in HP. We spoke about a few house business things and I asked if he attended opening night at Ravina. He said he didn't, he fell asleep. I shared something son B said this afternoon I was going to share on our date. He was grateful. All in all, it was about a five minute conversation but it was nice. I was the first to say good-bye and told him to *take care*--I usually tell him I love him--and he said *take care* back. And I felt it was an answer to my prayers, a beginning for his heart to open again. It's a start.
I was surprised to see C's number on the CallerID but then again, I wasn't. Prayer is powerful.
