I’m still so lost

[Cadet]

It makes no sense to me this whole H and our situation

Just a comment here about DB in general.
Yes everything here makes no sense until you really understand it and get down to the nitty gritty science of it all.
Which I can not do in a few sentences.
MWD has studied all of this stuff and she recommends doing a 180.
Why is that?
Because on the surface that really makes no sense either.

However the science vs the science - it does make sense.
When we do the opposite of what we were doing - we do what works!
The person in crisis is going through something that makes no sense to them because
they have had changes to them which does not biologically make things work the same way that they worked before.

Tread softly because nothing here happens quickly,
your relationship didn't get here quickly and it is not going to be resolved quickly.

Keep making small changes for YOU.
Not to win him back.

Keep posting.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Patt

I’m glad to see you are back to work. It’s probably nice to not be so cooped up in the house convalescing.

Am I allowing the whole cake eating?

Cake eating is allowing, partaking in, sex while the other partner is also actively in an affair or likewise other sexual relationship. From my understanding, it’s not confirmed your H is seeing anyone else, and you and he are seldom (not?) intimate at the moment.

Not allowing cake eating is a good boundary. Often a new LBS is so hurt they may allow such disrespectful behaviour in efforts to fix things. We are pretty mixed up at BD and would do some desperate things. If one’s marriage wasn’t open before, do not open it now.

Is this situation unique?

Folks in turmoil or crisis or emotional stress come in a few flavours. The spectrum of contact ranges from high to low as: Clinging Boomerang, Boomerang, Off-n-On, and Vanisher.

The Off-n-On has touch and go moments. The contact is more notes, emails, and such; usually ramping up during holidays and special occasions. Their contact is more testing and feelers to see how we are judging them; although that is a common trait across all type.

The Boomerang, just when you think they done, they circle around and fly back in. This is the most common type. They bounce from distance to back in your face.

The clinging boomerang is even more so in contact with the LBS. These folks are more dependent and/or codependent, where as the boomerang is more independent. The clinger seeks reassurance often from fear of abandonment issues.

The vanisher drops off the face of the earth. Unlike the Boomerang who often will still walk into the house like they never left, the Vanisher is just gone. My XW is such a gal. No contact with me, and very little with her children.

Along with these types is their energy level. High energy and wallowing. The high energy type burn the candle at both ends. Their running behaviours are full tilt; affairs, spending, drinking, drugs, and such.

The other is Wallower. These folks still exhibit running behaviours and confusion and such. However, they more brood and sit and wallow in their depression. This is unlike the high energy folks who are really attempting to outrun their depression.

Remember, depression is at the heart of this. These folks have unrealized hurts and torments from long ago, and very poor coping skills. They have lots to learn and growing up to do.

Your H is more a clinging boomerang, exhibiting more wallower traits methinks. That is one of the less common types.

My XW was a high energy vanisher. She ran full tilt and destroyed her world. She pushed hard for divorce and threw everyone away. A wallower is less likely, is less driven, to push towards such finality.

it’s almost like I feel like we have gone back to some weird dating. I had def tried to be more the “distancer” and less pursuer as hard as it is to flip my whole mentality of acting like a crazywoman the last two months.

Keep up the 180’s. Allow time and space. H is much in your life, and also needing his space.

It’s ok to follow his lead, while you maintain certain boundaries. Good on you for seeing this as a weird dating type thing. As long as you keep your expectations really low, and go with the flow, H does appear to be responding rather positively. Keep moving forward and let him catch up to you.

Realize there will be setbacks (on both sides) and this will take time.

D

[Pattnee5]

Cadet- Thankyou very much, yes I am treading carefully and I am making changes for me and to become a better person. I am actually loving the person I now am and feel so much calmer and relaxed and fun than I have in a very long time. 180 almost seems to rejuvenated me immensely.

D- wow what can I say. Always so full of wisdom and wise words. Yes correct H is not seeing or involved with anyone. He has mentioned that multiple times and I fully trust him. (Yes I understand that alot of LBs have been like me only to discover something ) but I have full trust in him for now until something says otherwise.The fact he currently lives with my family members too helps. We had been intimate coninouslu after BD in Dec but I now see that was a desperate me trying to do anything to save everything. Since he moved out we had been intimate once or twice but moreso because I didn’t want to throw myself at him. And now as I read more about the cake eating I felt I didn’t like him having all the benefits of his old life and just reside elsewhere at night and sleep. So I guess I took away the cake and certainly stopped initiation.
He did make a comment out of the blue a week or so ago that he doesn’t want our intimacy to just be about the act and does want all the deeper feelings he once had again before being intimate again. I guess he doesn’t want to feel so messed up in his own head first.
I really don’t understand why some men are so completely stubborn to talking about their emotions and feeling and having IC. In the past he saw an IC and said it was amazing and loved it, but now he’s so resistant

The clingy boomerang I like it.I just feel like he isn’t done yet with our M but also isn’t ready in his own head to return and give it a cracking shot at repair.

For me I am ok with just
Going with the flow, following his lead with as little or as much as he needs right now, I certainly do know there will be setbacks and some big tests too. Such as my reactions when his stress levels boil over and how I handle myself.(complete 180 to how I would have)
I am certainly giving H all the space in the world that he requires when he requires it and honestly am prepared for anything now. Much more prepared than I have ever been

Thankyou for letting me vent. It is helping me so much to be able to come on here and share my thoughts and get some opinions

[SteveLW]

Pattnee, DBing is about consistency.

I see you quoting "believe nothing he says and only half of what he does". Then a few posts later "he says there's is no one else and I fully trust him". Huh? Which one is it?

One of the things I learned in my situation was that something had to change. Either I had to change my behavior or my marital status had to change. What I see from you is that you're holding on for dear life for things to go back to the way they were. How do I see that? Because you want to try to do the things that someone does to win someone new over. Problem: your husband isn't new. You've got history. Resentments built up. Past hurts. Mistakes, problems and worries. You don't have that with a new person. So you cannot treat your marriage like you could if you were starting over with someone new. Those tactics to win someone over will not work.

Another reason they won't work is he's seen that movie before. And he knows it is not sustainable long term. You simply can't be in limerance, do all the right things mode, forever. He knows that. Deep down you know that too. Even if becoming super wife could delay the inevitable, it would only be a delay. As soon as you became regular old wife Pattnee again he'd be off looking for something else.

So if you have to change something, and what comes intuitively has no chance of working, what is left? That's the power of DBing. GAL. 180s. Detachment. Removing all pressure and pursuit. Taking all of the focus of him and the marriage and putting it on yourself. That's the only real choice here. Trying to stay the same or treat him like you'd treat a new boyfriend will only cause the thing you fear most to come about.

The right answer to DNJ's question is: I don't know. I don't know if there is someone else or not. But regardless, it doesn't change what I need to do. See the difference?

[Pattnee5]

Pattnee, DBing is about consistency.

I see you quoting "believe nothing he says and only half of what he does". Then a few posts later "he says there's is no one else and I fully trust him". Huh? Which one is it?

One of the things I learned in my situation was that something had to change. Either I had to change my behavior or my marital status had to change. What I see from you is that you're holding on for dear life for things to go back to the way they were. How do I see that? Because you want to try to do the things that someone does to win someone new over. Problem: your husband isn't new. You've got history. Resentments built up. Past hurts. Mistakes, problems and worries. You don't have that with a new person. So you cannot treat your marriage like you could if you were starting over with someone new. Those tactics to win someone over will not work.

Another reason they won't work is he's seen that movie before. And he knows it is not sustainable long term. You simply can't be in limerance, do all the right things mode, forever. He knows that. Deep down you know that too. Even if becoming super wife could delay the inevitable, it would only be a delay. As soon as you became regular old wife Pattnee again he'd be off looking for something else.

So if you have to change something, and what comes intuitively has no chance of working, what is left? That's the power of DBing. GAL. 180s. Detachment. Removing all pressure and pursuit. Taking all of the focus of him and the marriage and putting it on yourself. That's the only real choice here. Trying to stay the same or treat him like you'd treat a new boyfriend will only cause the thing you fear most to come about.

The right answer to DNJ's question is: I don't know. I don't know if there is someone else or not. But regardless, it doesn't change what I need to do. See the difference?

Thanks Steve. Yep you’re so right and thanks for calling me out for it. You’re right I am trying to drum it into my head yet still somewhat believe him. I completely understand about the super wife thing. I tried that long before DB or learning about DB. After BD in Dec I literally tried to become super wife like you said. And I was exhausted and gosh are so right it didn’t work. So now I have certainly learnt that lesson and don’t want to trick him into coming home. I want him to come home on his own accord and wanting to rebuild on our M and repair it and use our foundations from the past to turn a corner and take this in a direction that will work and last. I don’t want to be back here again. It’s funny because time apart has really opened my eyes to his struggles and also my struggles and realising my true values for what I want moving forward.

I’m certainly trying to do a lot of 180 now.a complete turnaround to how I would normally be.I find I am far more relaxed too about it. GAL is happening too I am a work in progress
Had friends over this evening for multiple bottles of wine. H had to come and drop D off after sport later in the evening and asked to pop in and have a glass. Of course I said yes. Once he walked in he started to try and tidy up and clean up the kitchen even though we were all just relaxing chatting drinking wine and laughing. I did comment and say to leave the dishes I will do them when everyone leaves. He continued to do it so I just ignored it and went back ti my friends( in the past I would have jumped up and felt guilty and trying to help or telling him to stop.) instead I just shrugged it off and enjoyed my moment with mates. A few minutes later he came and sat down with a wine and interacted with us ( leaving the cleaning up)
A small win for me but I realised right here In that moment that he needs to know it’s ok to let that stuff go and not do everything before he can relax, he’s allowed to relax first and do the “errand “
Later. It’s funny because up until tonight I didn’t realise how important this lesson is for him to self manage. He was always one that everything needed to be done all the housework and tasks and errands before you sit and relax for the night ( regardless of how you feel or how your day has gone).
This was a small win for me tonight in the sense I let him problem solve his own priorities and needs .he joined in the banter bid everyone farewell and I waved and went back to my friends. I am scaring myself at times now as to how I act🥲
Thanks again Steve for keeping me in check. You are right I am still wavering from the stuff I am trying to drum into myself. Am I holding on to dear life? Well not so much as I was.I don’t want things to go back to the way they were they never can. Do I have hope yes I do, and I am happy to have that hope because at least if there’s one of us that wants it then we have somewhat of a chance. Will I be ok if he decides to end our marriage for good? Yes I will ( he won’t but I will 😂). Sure I will be heartbroken and it will take a long time to fall out of love and one day open my heart again but I know I’ll be ok. Ask me a few months ago I would have felt an. Elephant sitting on my chest and an inability to breathe

[Pattnee5]

Another reason they won't work is he's seen that movie before. And he knows it is not sustainable long term. You simply can't be in limerance, do all the right things mode, forever. He knows that. Deep down you know that too. Even if becoming super wife could delay the inevitable, it would only be a delay. As soon as you became regular old wife Pattnee again he'd be off looking for something else.

So if you have to change something, and what comes intuitively has no chance of working, what is left? That's the power of DBing. GAL. 180s. Detachment. Removing all pressure and pursuit. Taking all of the focus of him and the marriage and putting it on yourself. That's the only real choice here. Trying to stay the same or treat him like you'd treat a new boyfriend will only cause the thing you fear most to come about.

I keep re reading this Steve Thankyou. It is so very right and hits home a lot. I was stuck for so long trying to be super wife. You are right it’s not sustainable. And neither is treating it like a new relationship. I am certainly trying to DB, my 180 is getting better, the detachment is harder with the pursuer distancer but I’m getting there. I want to change me for me and solely for me. And if he chooses to D then he is the fool🥰 Thankyou so much

[Pattnee5]

I am just coming on here to vent. Nothing has happened to cause this I have just had a very flat feeling day and feel deflated, sad, tired. My patience is low. I’m sure all very common and you all had these moments. I know they pass, but sadness and loneliness creeps in from time to time and I miss H. I still believe in soulmates and believe he is mine. Sometimes I hate being a female and all our romanticised ideas and beliefs and fairytales. I’m still doing alot of my own personal work, trying to grow and learn more, read more, self improve. I have started to give myself a set time to grieve as suggested on here And feel and let the emotions go. However I am so sick of crying too.
My DB is going good, worked a bit today, spent time with the kids, walked the dog with friends then had dinner with kids. I never used to be a patient person, I think the biggest lesson I am going to take away from this is how patient I can become. This certainly stinks and is difficult. I still love him so very much. I’m telling you guys because I know I can’t tell H
😅

[DnJ]

Good Morning Patt

A small win for me but I realized right here in that moment that he needs to know it’s ok to let that stuff go and not do everything before he can relax

Nicely done. You handled that very well, just letting him be. And in doing so he altered/paused his drive that everything needs to be done before relaxing time.

I really don’t understand why some men are so completely stubborn to talking about their emotions and feeling and having IC. In the past he saw an IC and said it was amazing and loved it, but now he’s so resistant.

Generally, men are driven mostly by logic and reason. We are protective, strong, and sturdy. And we define ourselves by those principles.

Unfortunately, boys are usually taught, to not show emotions, to walk it off, and so on. Strong silent resilient. Work hard, play hard.

When things go sideways our logical outlook kicks into an even higher gear than our norm. Problem solving is pretty addictive. Sure sometimes a man’s choice is just to get a bigger hammer, seeing most problems a nails. Although, we do have a toolbox of other strategies.

And when things go sideways, emotionally, I mean really sideways, that bigger hammer don’t help. The entire tool box can be dumped right out and nothing in the stereotypical man’s repertoire really works here. One finds himself kind of lost as the few well utilized tools that have worked awesomely in pretty much every situation in our lives thus far just don’t fit.

There is a stubbornness regarding speaking about our inner feelings. It’s a sign, a belief, of weakness. A failure of those principles we define ourselves by. Of course, the counterintuitive path, the thing not yet realized: One needs to be flexible to be strong, elsewise they break when under too much pressure.

Most men simply refuse to yield to mounting emotional pressure(s). They push back. They hold firm. And something has to give.

The funny thing is, opening up, and talking, brings more strength and resilience.

Sometimes I hate being a female and all our romanticized ideas and beliefs and fairytales.

Men also have romanticized ideas. No white night ever fails or breaks in the stories.

It’s kind of sad how we all, both men and women, hold ourselves to some beliefs. Perhaps, it’s a conviction that no longer serves. A belief to alter or discard. Plenty of others to strengthen and aspire to methinks.

D

[Terapin]

"I really don’t understand why some men are so completely stubborn to talking about their emotions and feeling and having IC. In the past he saw an IC and said it was amazing and loved it, but now he’s so resistant"

Hi. Sorry, I don't know how to 'quote' specific parts of a post!

What DnJ said is true. Men are just different. But I'll take it a step further, and this may be just me.

I've been thinking a lot about this since my BD. I'm not much of a 'talker' to begin with, but I am really sentimental, emotional, etc. So why did I rarely show that side to my W? Fear. Not only fear of W (or anyone) thinking I"m a 'sissy', but fear of making her mad.

For instance, if something was bothering me, I'd just bury it, cause I didn't want to upset her. "I'll just deal with it" was my thought process. But after a while, those things buried start to build and build, until eventually it explodes. When W and I were in MC years ago, I liked it. Not necessarily talking about my feelings, but having that mediated forum where we could both get things off our chests.

[Pattnee5]

D you are always so insightful and offer such a good explanation regarding the toolbox and stubbornness to think further than that 😆 so I guess H has looked in his toolbox and prob thought there’s nothing there I wanna try and use let me just take my tools and run. So very true the pressure builds and builds and emotions are held on to and drowned and eventually gets too much so they run or remove themselves because it’s easier than talking.
I guess that’s the difference as a female we verbalise a lot talk a lot with girlfriends or family. It really isn’t a nice situation to be in as the spouse who has to sit back and bite your tongue and watch when you know if they just started talking and expressing their emotions this whole situation is avoidable or at least problem solving becomes alot easier


Terrapin Just WOW

I've been thinking a lot about this since my BD. I'm not much of a 'talker' to begin with, but I am really sentimental, emotional, etc. So why did I rarely show that side to my W? Fear. Not only fear of W (or anyone) thinking I"m a 'sissy', but fear of making her mad.

For instance, if something was bothering me, I'd just bury it, cause I didn't want to upset her. "I'll just deal with it" was my thought process. But after a while, those things buried start to build and build, until eventually it explodes. When W and I were in MC years ago, I liked it. Not necessarily talking about my feelings, but having that mediated forum where we could both get things off our chests.

You have literally just summed up my H. And he recently a few weeks ago expressed this in a similar way to me( all bar realising it’s all exploded because I think he’s in denial about that part)
But yes, he admits he didn’t speak up out of fear of upsetting me or making me mad so he just would deal with it. This is so spot on yet you weren’t the BD person you were the receiver 😔

In my DB and whole 180 I am being alot more of a listener and providing a safer space to give him a chance to open up and show him I won’t get mad or upset but will take everything on board. Unfortunately there is still no real attempt to express things. Maybe out of fear of my reaction. But maybe because I don’t know how to tell him I am happy to listen without going against DB and saying “hey I’m here let’s have a chat tell me your thoughts” I def don’t want to smother him, but don’t know how else to show him it’s ok to speak up