Advice needed on whether I've completely messed up / what do I do next?
This journey surely is the absolute worst? I go from feeling really strong to feeling heartbroken. Tonight is the latter. My last post was me starting to see some of the negatives in our relationship. I'd not heard from H for over 2 weeks since he said he was leaving OW. As previous posts detail, my kids had been in touch and he hadn't left her, which caused me some anguish but I rallied and could see nothing had changed other than my expectations being dashed & that's where I was; feeling detached, noticing negatives in the relationship & feeling OK.
Today, H called at the house without warning. He came inside and said he was there to apologise for letting me down because he felt unable to leave her. I was unprepared and whilst I didn't shout and scream, I think my feelings were transparent. I said he had hurt me and broken promises. He was back to saying he cared about me but had strong feelings for OW. I asked him did he see his future with her & he ummed & ahh'd and said I suppose so. I was calm and said that I wished him all the best and we would need to formally sort out increased child care and the financial side (we've had a loose arrangement where he pays me slightly less than he should and nothing towards the mortgage despite the house being in joint names). I am booked in at a lawyers to get more advice on this. When he got up to leave, he tried to hug me and I didn't hug him back. I asked him to collect the rest of his things from the garage, return my suitcase and give me back the house keys. He seemed surprised at being asked for the keys and I said you don't live here anymore. As he left, he asked me about what time I was going and coming back from my overnighter tomorrow. I said he didn't need to know that information and that I had arranged all care for D.
I'm sat here thinking about the exchange & worrying that I've pushed him away. I wasnt neutral as if I was speaking to a flatmate, I was speaking from my hurt feelings I'm angry at myself for being so upset about that. I really don't deserve to be treated like he is treating me. How should I have managed today & how bad are the mistakes I've made? I genuinely think he wasn't expecting how I've been today & I worry it will have driven him more towards her. The sensible part of me says so what if it has, I didn't have him anyway, the situation is no different but it somehow feels like it is. Its those pesky feelings again!
Last edited by DnJ; 04/28/2301:09 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
You played it almost perfectly. Seriously - well done MA.
The problem here is that you are trying to connect how “well” you behave as to whether he’s coming back or not.
What people say and do has VERY little to do with the decisions a wayward husband makes.
You could have slammed the door in his face. You could have hugged him. You could have been super validating and supportive.
Stop trying to connect what you do or say to whether he decides to come back or not, because it makes zero difference. People with APs are like drug addicts. You can’t make them see sense, they make erratic decisions, they’ll promise the world but deliver nothing.
He is on a journey which needs to run its course.
You’re a passenger on this train ride, not the train driver.
In a few year’s time you’ll look back on how you handled this conversation and feel pride.
You need to see an IC to get some help with emotional resilience so that the highs and lows aren’t such extremes for you.
MA, you didn't mess up at all!.. That was almost textbook DBing! Well done. The only mistake I saw was letting your emotions show, but controlling that is easier said than done.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thank you for reassurance re DB. I have read the book (& clearly have understood some) but maybe need to revisit. On reflection, I can see that my behaviour is completely different to previous behaviours which were facilitating cake eating.
Kind - as ever your observations have given me something to think about. You're right about my ability to manage highs and lows. Despite what I verbally say, I do think what I do & say always has a background intention of being something that might help facilitate R. I'm hoping his response yesterday will help me detach more consistently. I had IC through work scheme but it was not a good fit. I wanted to work on me but she seemed very biased towards me being better off without H & I ended the sessions before I had used the full amount. I think I have found someone else based on recommendations but she has a wait list. I've bought a couple of self help books & I'll work through these whilst waiting.
Advice needed on whether I've completely messed up
You did really well.
To me it sounds like, sure your emotions were involved - that’s completely normal and human after all, especially when he showed up unannounced and you are unprepared - and you remained calm and spoke with rationale.
Originally Posted by MA1970
How should I have managed today & how bad are the mistakes I've made?
Firstly, I don’t believe it to be a mistake. Your conversation, the things you said, spot on. And secondly, you managed the day’s unexpected triggering rather well. You calmly stated how he’s hurt you and broke his word yet again. Then clearly stated your position in a business-like manner.
Basically, you let him go. You care enough to let him go. Gave him his freedom to do with it what he will. That’s not pushing him out the door, nor trying to hold on to him.
Originally Posted by MA1970
I'm sat here thinking about the exchange & worrying that I've pushed him away.
Originally Posted by MA1970
I genuinely think he wasn't expecting how I've been today & I worry it will have driven him more towards her.
I’m pretty sure H did not expect your response. And when you did state your position and disentangled yourself from his mess, even for that first initial moment, H went right back to he cares about you but he has strong feelings for OW. He tried to lure back in, and still justify what he is doing. Lots of times the stuff after “but” is trying to justify what one is doing. They know it’s wrong or lesser than correct “but” for reason(s) I can’t help myself or stop myself or whatever. Well done, not letting him push your buttons.
This exchange with H is kind of new territory. A bit boundary, a bit standing up to him, a whole lot of letting go. Worrying if you did right or ok is a normal response upon such reflection. Do limit your reenforcing of such worrying. Let that feeling flit. You did fine.
Originally Posted by MA1970
The sensible part of me says so what if it has, I didn't have him anyway, the situation is no different but it somehow feels like it is. It’s those pesky feelings again!
I love how you see the rational and the emotion paths here. Yes, the rational part of you - I agree it’s the sensible part, which I find amusing when looking at myself, I have sensible and less sensible reactions, desires, dreams, hopes, and such. Anyhow, the sensible part of you knows and even says “so what”. If he wants to go, so be it. You know you cannot force him to be with you, and wouldn’t really want him in that manner anyhow. You deserve better.
It somehow feels different because it is. Your intellectual path and your emotional path have become more lined up. And as one’s four paths - physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual - become more and more aligned, one’s life becomes more and more peaceful and content.
Originally Posted by MA1970
what do I do next?
Let go of H. Give him to God.
H has to traverse his journey.
I would suspect you will detach and find indifference. Do be aware and cautious, other feeling will loom large, will feel stronger, in the void of the numbness that once held such love and almost desperation for reconciliation and hope and such. Don’t make decisions upon such illusionary strengths.
Indifference does unwind. Feelings do return. Much better and much clearer when one does their inner processing and work. And indifference is a wonderful opportunity to do that free from the noise and commotion of our spouse and their antics.
What inner work? Beliefs. Values. Convictions.
Discover those. Strengthen that which serves. Craft that which you aspire to. And alter or discard that which does not serve.
That is the landscape of the spiritual path. One’s deeply held motivations for what and why they do. The convictions and values of your life.
The spiritual path is not necessarily meaning religious. It can, however that’s not a requisite. It’s the beliefs of one’s self. Beliefs that are slow to change and provide the underpinning or foundation for one’s life. Getting that organized and known/understood provides a solid foundation for everything.
There will also be grief. You have been experiencing bargaining. The last ditch efforts to feel that “old” normal. Letting go will bring some more anger. And it will usher in depression.
Withdrawal will also be another necessary milestone to work through.
So, no pressure.
Just keep moving forward and do what you’re doing.
Things become more standing for you, rather than standing for H or M. So it’s a really wise idea to know what you stand for.
Remember, you’ve got the gift of time. Use it wisely.
Have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I've had a great weekend with my GAL activities & really felt happy and alive. Its been a holiday here in the UK so had a long weekend with a mixture of activity with different friends and activity with the kids. I got to the front of the stage at a DJ gig and danced my heart out. Well...until they played a 90's tune that reminded me of H and I had a tearful moment!
D met with H whilst I was away on Friday night & asked him why he had given false hope for reunion. He answered that he'd been focusing on what qualities I had that OW didn't and this led to arguments in their relationship. He said the arguing and alcohol had made him think it was me he wanted but he now realises we're just different people! That hurt initially & I was aware of it activating thoughts that I mean nothing & am worthless. I'm trying my best to recognise these thoughts and challenge them. I have strong family values and I also have a very loving and compassionate heart. The H who says these things is not compatible with my values. He's gone and I'm trying to remember this when I get scared about the future. I don't want the new H & neither do I want the old one!! IF we were ever to reconnect, there is so much work to be done to have the type of relationship I want and deserve. This is going to take a lot of time. I can completely believe this in my rational mind but when the emotional mind takes over, it's difficult.
Time & patience - my favourite quotes from DnJ. My mantra that helps when I'm thrown another difficult curveball is that nothing has changed! He's still deep in limerance and MLC. It's going to take time to come out of that. He needs to do that at his pace. I hope I'm still standing but if not or indeed, if his future is with OW permanently, time will have allowed me to accept this decision.
Originally Posted by DnJ
I would suspect you will detach and find indifference. Do be aware and cautious, other feeling will loom large, will feel stronger, in the void of the numbness that once held such love and almost desperation for reconciliation and hope and such. Don’t make decisions upon such illusionary strengths.
DnJ - could you explain this a bit more? I think I'm getting better at detaching (not sure about indifference). What other feelings could be heading my way? I'm still sad and grieving my past relationship quite a bit of the time but definitely much calmer and more rational.
I would suspect you will detach and find indifference. Do be aware and cautious, other feeling will loom large, will feel stronger, in the void of the numbness that once held such love and almost desperation for reconciliation and hope and such. Don’t make decisions upon such illusionary strengths.
DnJ - could you explain this a bit more? I think I'm getting better at detaching (not sure about indifference). What other feelings could be heading my way? I'm still sad and grieving my past relationship quite a bit of the time but definitely much calmer and more rational.
Emotional detachment is when one is no longer uncontrollably dragged about by their spouse’s words and/or behaviours. One still feels, just not so uncontrolled.
Indifference is the loss, or the major attenuation of feelings towards one’s spouse. As such, their words and/or behaviour just don’t matter anymore. One is indifferent.
Indifference is temporary. In time, concern and compassion returns. Our feelings return. Yet, we are still detached - not dragged about.
It is pretty amazing this emotional journey and lesson. And you will find that you will be able to conjure up indifference pretty quickly after this. Exerting your control of thought to influence your emotions. Or lack thereof, in this case.
To be clear, indifference is not usually a state we live our lives in. For pretty much everything, everyone, every aspect of my life, I either love, hate, like, or dislike. I’ve not much that has absolutely no emotional reference or memory.
That is the heart of the caution. All those feelings of loving H, hating H, liking and disliking, become absent. A void. A vacuum. And nature abhors a vacuum. Our other emotions will appear larger as they expand to fill the space. What feelings might one expect?
My big warning is temptation. Feelings of attraction towards other people. Those fuzzy feelings really stand out in contrast to the blank backdrop of our numbness towards our spouse. My advice do not act upon these. Dating during this time is a huge temptation. We feel fine; great even. It will feel like this is permanent. Like it’s acceptance. However, this is temporary.
Be patience, indifference does unwind. And the depression stage of grief really kicks in. All perfectly normal, our feelings no longer so focused and attached to our spouse, they turn inward. Depression is our emotional loss expressed internally. Us finding acceptance with it.
Some other feelings. Joy, happiness, and such. Those have been muted for a while dealing with one’s situation and spouse, and now they spring up. It’s very interesting to see and feel the world sans spouse.
From my own experiences:
All those feelings. The attraction, the temptation, the happiness, the joy; looking back all were less then now. At the time, they felt so much bigger. Of course, I was still hurt during this time, and had not gained acceptance yet. Although it felt like I kind of had. Ha, I was no where close to where I am now.
The big thing about indifference is I started feeling me again. Without all that emotional noise regarding XW and the situation. It was amazing and staggering to be devoid of care, or fear, or hope, for someone I spent 30+ years with. You can easily imagine how one could alter course amidst such.
This is an excellent time to delve deep into one’s self. I strengthened my beliefs and convictions that serve. Crafted those I aspired to. And I discarded and altered that which was less than desirable and did not serve. A lifetime process to be sure.
As I’ve said many times, the boundaries between stages is rather nebulous. There is not a well defined delimitation, we just slowly slide into an other stage. Somewhere along the way, indifference unwound. And somewhere I had truly entered depression.
I was still detached. I was not dragged about by my XW. And my feelings had returned. All that emotional reference and memory. And my gosh, memory brings on the depression. My world was pretty blank after bomb drop. It now turned grey and silent. The brief time of indifference an odd oasis in my bleak landscape.
Somewhere along the way two amazing things occurred. I didn’t realize at the time as they were the herald of the end of depression, for when you are in it, you only feel that. Grief lasts right up until the second it doesn’t. There is no warning or feeling of it’s end, it just happens.
The two things. I heard a bird. Again. For the first time, again. It was amazing. Such a song. I had not heard birds singing, or much of anything for a long time.
The second. Color returned. The rich green of grass. The blue of the sky. The red of a sunset. Like the bird, I actually was engaged in it. It was incredible!
Only in looking back can I see how grey and silent my world was. How devoid of color and sound my existence was. Living it, I felt it, I knew of it, yet not the extent of it.
Indifference. Feelings appear much larger and feel much stronger against such a grey void. Let them flit, and look to your convictions.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks for the detailed clarification DnJ. It's an interesting one & I'll need to fully digest and reflect. I'm not sure whether I'm hitting indifference or getting better at detachment? I know that I'm starting to do things based on them making ME feel better as opposed to a circumvent way of grabbing H's attention. I'm rarely thinking of him with OW & when I do, there is no longer the urge to compare myself and experience subsequent fear and panic. I'm starting to see that there might be a better life for me in the future but I still get scared that I'll end up a crazy spinster cat lady!!
In terms of this week's GAL activity. I'm going about my daily business and trying to make sure I include things that make me happy. I've done some holiday clothes shopping this week and have bought a couple of outfits that I would previously never have even tried on & I like them! The reason for the trying new clothes is my goal to be more body confident. It helps that I've dropped 52lbs since BD but previously I would still not feel confident even at a lower weight with something like a jumpsuit.
The past 3-4 days have felt much calmer for me & I cannot thank everyone enough for all the comments and guidance on both my own thread and learning from others threads too.
Congratulations on the weight loss. I’m glad to see you being more confident and comfortable. And a couple of new outfits is awesome! Get some shoes too and rock those ensembles!
Originally Posted by MA1970
The past 3-4 days have felt much calmer for me
Good stuff.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Well done, not letting him push your buttons.