Friends: Season 4--Struggling for balance

[SadBurl]

Betsy your D sounds so wonderful. You are very lucky and obviously a wonderful mum.

Sorry to hear about your friend. A few years ago my nighbour committed suicide. I spoke to him the morning before he did it. I always asked could I have done something to stop him but I think ultimatley there is nothing anyone can do when someone has made up their mind. I think what you're doing now is so important. Not letting her be forgotten in death. It is important that all her friends and the children get an opportunity to remember her.

Like everyone else who where the flowers from?

Joanne

[Underdog]

Hi guys/ladies! Rachel and Monica are otherwise engaged, so I'm here to give out massages.... I mean messages!!!

The flowers were from Mr. Wonderful, and came with a card that read, "Have a good day!" I found out from D10 that he had decided to do it before I got home in my funk.

I took the girls to see Shrek 2 last night (really good, and make sure you stay through the credits for the outtakes because donkey gets the last word )... while we were gone, Mr. Wonderful left a very cheery voicemail.

I've now taken mystery building as a serious occupation, so I didn't call him back. Plus we got home at 9, so it wasn't like we weren't busy up until bedtime.... He called me this morning to check in and make small talk.

I'm not pressing for answers, so you'll have to wait to hear where he's going with this. Until then, Phoebe is just hanging out and doing absolutely nothing.

Betsey

[MovinOn]

Sometimes hanging out and doing absolutely nothing is the best we can do for ourselves! Have a great weekend, Betsey!

Pattie

[gd1]

Hi Bets,
Our Kitty gave me a big hug from you...thanks, girlfriend, I needed that! Missed you at the Beach...it was gobs of fun. I already booked Tampa party for $126.00RT...wanna come play?
Your TA's passing and the response of adults who shol;d know better made me cry. Course, I have been in a crying mood all week. Glad that you told the girls and are remembering her at the golf tournament.

Yes, D10 is a keeper! Out of the mouths of babes, huh? I agree with others: her mama done taught her well.

I'm sad to report that the neverending tory aka trial, continues. Next date :my birthday. It is all so lame. I cannot understand who trains these divorce lawyers...I do know where they are found however....under rocks.
Sometimes I think it will just never end.

[Underdog]

Linda,

I was planning on calling you for a chat tonight, but I opted to take out my misery on Mr. Wonderful. I will still call you (but not tonight)--tonight, you have been spared!

Well, it looks like my hormonal week is ending pretty much on the same keel. I'm still standing and surviving, but I think the blisters on my hands from doing yard work, the bruises to my heart and my puffy eyes speak volumes.

I started to do yard work when Mr. W. took the girls to Fay Meyers to buy a motorcycle battery. They were gone quite awhile. As I gunned up the lawnmower, some really strong emotional feelings took hold. I barked at D10, who had come in the back yard to say goodbye and then again at my darling husband, who came to tell me the same. And when they left, I literally broke down.

That pretty much nixed any ideas I had about going out to do some shoe shopping, so I togged between a Law & Order marathon and a Trading Spaces marathon. Nothing like crime and interior design to take my mind off of my life.

About 9:00 pm, when Criminal Intent came on, I decided I had enough of mindless diversion and thinking inside my head. So I dialed for dollars and called Mr. Estranged-for-Nearly-17-Months. And I literally broke down.

Boy, was that messy. I told him in between heavy sobbing that I could no longer be the lawn caretaker, laundry person, mother and father and still be sane. And I let it all come out. He listened to all of it.

I finally got the gonads to start asking the questions I knew would provoke him. One of them was if he really was hoping I would just get sick of this and file. He said, "I don't want that, but after almost 17 months I know you're not going to do that because you have changed. A LOT."

There were periods of complete silence. He told me I ask really hard but pertinent questions... hey, why is it that you guys know this about me but he doesn't?

I really can't repeat the entire convo, because most of it is rehashing ones we've been having over the past 5 months. BUT I did learn some new things. Before I get there, PIB, he offered some insight to his thought patterns. And I know you're going to see the similarities.

He told me he's recently decided he needs to work on his own personality quirks. He figured out that what had not worked at home was also not serving him at all well at work. And he shared with me the numerous similarities. All of them shared a theme of either doing everything himself (and resenting others for not being able to read his mind about what he wants) or how he sees himself lacking control.

He also told me he realizes how bad his conflict avoidance affected me and his coworkers. He said he realizes that this problem was created by him, and therefore it is up to him to be part of the solution. (His famous words to me have finally hit home with him.) And commented that he knows he was wishing this problem would disappear with time or get cleaned up by me, which he said he realizes was unfair.

And he said he realizes that he's saddled me with the responsibility of doing exactly this for our entire marriage. He actually apologized for how he mishandled those situations.

He once again told me that he fears coming home and being here again, in this same predicament, 3 years in the future. (I can promise you all I won't do this again.... but he needs to feel this.) He mentioned he didn't know if he could ever love me again.

I asked him, "Why was I the girl you couldn't live without?" He said, "You mean the reason I decided you were the one I had to marry?"

I said, "Yes. Exactly that." He commented, "I thought you were pretty, smart and a lot of fun. We shared the same values and we both wanted the same thing from life. And I really loved your sense of humor."

Me: "What has changed?"

Silence for at least 2 minutes.

MW: "Hmmmmm. It appears that those reasons are still true."

He told me this round that he misses my parents and is feeling bad about not having their respect. He also knows his father isn't particularly a happy camper. I asked him why? He replied, "Well, if divorce would have resolved all HIS problems, he would have done it."

PIB, I took a page out of your book with my next statement:

"K, we've been living separately for almost 17 months. I don't see how much more this could affect us. I'm trying very hard to understand what more information you need from me to help you make a decision. At this point, it really isn't going to make much of a difference to me what you choose, but it IS important that you choose soon."

I let him hash this one out some more and I commented, "I'm glad you're talking to me. I have deliberately left you alone to sort this out, but it really appears that you still have no answers.

MW: "Bets, you've done everything through this mess so beautifully. I'm so sorry I hurt you."

Me: "If I've done everything so beautifully, why isn't this answer obvious? And I know you didn't intentionally do this to hurt me; I promise you that it hasn't been done in vain."

MW: "Wow. What a great question. You really ask the tough ones."

We then got into the nuts and bolts about my abandonment issues and how I was always the one who threatened to leave. I apologized for doing that, when he spoke up, this time with a little reserved anger, "Come to think of it, you DID threaten me all the time."

Me: "Yes, because it took me a very long time and some time with the C for me to see that I would either leave myself or make it so that you left me. If I had not grown, I would have continued to see your leaving as a reflection of my self worth--that is, I was unworthy. However, I now see that your leaving implied nothing of the sort."

MW: "Geez. How did you figure that out? That is amazing. Now that I look back, I see that all your boyfriends before me left. Hmmmmmm."

We discussed this in more detail before I sprung my big ones on him.

Me: "K, it sounds as though you are really scared. What scares you?"

MW: "Divorce scares me. And it's wrong. We have the girls and a disabled daughter to care for. But being in a loveless marriage also scares me to death."

We discussed this more in detail too. When he finally blurted out what he fears the most about me: "I'm afraid that you are going to judge me for the rest of my days for what I have done."

I paused and in between the tears (which I either let loose or choked back most of our one hour convo), I said, "I understand why you might be afraid of that. I cannot make any guarantees that I won't do something out of hurt. But I can tell you that it wouldn't be deliberate, and I really cannot afford to live in the past for another day. It's been very painful, but worthwhile, but I really need to share with you what I'm scared of the most: Living in limbo for the rest of my life. What we're talking about is commitment. And either you want to end up like Pat and Carla (his reconciled friends) or you want a divorce."

He finally told me that he'd head out on his motorcycle tomorrow and think. Yes, he forces himself to think when he's out on it... and Meredith, I'm afraid that I got your patent answer as well, when I asked him, "Where does this leave us?" He said, "I need to think. But I promise to answer you soon."



However, he did tell me before we hung up that he knows this topic is coming up frequently now and it must have closure.

Oh, and one interesting side note... he commented on sending me the flowers and asked me if I had kept them. I told him yes, they were gorgeous and I left them at work on my desk, so the cat didn't eat the grass and vomit. He chuckled and said, "It felt good sending them to you."

So it looks like I'm on this ride for a little while longer. I sure as heck hope the tunnel before the light is coming around the bend...

Betsey

[Heart2Heart]

(((((Betsey))))
Sorry to hear you had a tough day. I still feel too new to have any words o' wisdom, but I'm thinking of you and hope you get some answers soon.

And yes, you do ask the tough questions - the ones that make us think, and sometimes sweat, but the ones that after reflection you come to realize are beautiful gifts that help us grow & shine! And I want to thank you for that!

Hugs,
-H2H

[maya]

Linda,

I was planning on calling you for a chat tonight, but I opted to take out my misery on Mr. Wonderful. I will still call you (but not tonight)--tonight, you have been spared! Ooh, ooh. Can anybody get on your call list?

Nothing like crime and interior design to take my mind off of my life.Tell that to Martha Stewart!

I finally got the gonads to start asking the questions I knew would provoke him.
Has he not answered your letter?

One of them was if he really was hoping I would just get sick of this and file. He said, "I don't want that, but after almost 17 months I know you're not going to do that because you have changed. A LOT."
Betsey, I know your situation is different than most of ours in that, for a long time, he DID think YOU were going to leave. So that may have meant that he needed assurances from you in the beginning that you would not walk..but now I need to ask. Could it be that he is taking his time because he feels SO secure that you are here to stay? Have you ever gone on to give him the true sense that you are moving on? LRT and dark?

He figured out that what had not worked at home was also not serving him at all well at work. Great. This is a real plus and I think my H is getting this, too. But I have to ask. How is he addressing this? How does he plan to break his patterns?

And he shared with me the numerous similarities. All of them shared a theme of either doing everything himself (and resenting others for not being able to read his mind about what he wants) or how he sees himself lacking control.

He also told me he realizes how bad his conflict avoidance affected me and his coworkers. WOW!
.
He mentioned he didn't know if he could ever love me again.
But what des that MEAN? Look at his actions lately, are they the actions of someone who does not love?

He said, "You mean the reason I decided you were the one I had to marry?"
"I thought you were pretty, smart and a lot of fun. We shared the same values and we both wanted the same thing from life. And I really loved your sense of humor."

Me: "What has changed?"

Silence for at least 2 minutes.

MW: "Hmmmmm. It appears that those reasons are still true."
Handled expertly! Well done, Betsey.

Nothing to add except, I hope that he moves more quickly towards that light. I know their fear of making a mistake by coming back is huge. After all, it took them some time to get the courage to leave in the first place and now, well,can they ever be certain that coming back will work for them. And they really DO worry about causing us the same pain all over again. Bless their little alien hearts.

Betsey, I am going to try to VISUALIZE Mr Wonderful coming through your doors and calling out with certainty, "Honey? I'm home!"

mayafool
maya's thread

[CabanaBoy]

Udog,

My goodness, you are the hard hitting, no holds barred DBer aren't you? You gathered all your guns and went hunting big time, no holding back. I asked him, "Why was I the girl you couldn't live without?" He said, "You mean the reason I decided you were the one I had to marry?"

I said, "Yes. Exactly that." He commented, "I thought you were pretty, smart and a lot of fun. We shared the same values and we both wanted the same thing from life. And I really loved your sense of humor."

Me: "What has changed?"

Silence for at least 2 minutes.

MW: "Hmmmmm. It appears that those reasons are still true."


Man, not only did you not fold under his answers (I would have died hearing that) but you knocked him off his feet with your follow up questions. You even got the answer you knew where deep inside your H's soul.

Hats off to you Bets, you soooooooooo deserve this momment.

Berto

[slowly]

Betsey, Hi. I did the homework, and came over for what I thought would be a relaxing weekend visit. Wow. My heartbeat was picking up pace as I scrolled down your post.

I could smell the fear in Mr. W. Did not think it could happen to reasonably balanced folks (you chose him, right, so he must be OK). Struck a chord with me about some of NG's defensiveness. Sheesh.

My mum's favourite expression during difficult times is that one cannot make omelettes without breaking eggs, and that's why women are more in tune with reality. She may have a point.

Have a great Sunday, Betsey. You deserve only the best. Slowly

[KutieKat]

wow (been saying that all week)

well you finally did it. it was brewing for awhile, but i do believe that finally he can see now how very important this was

don't regret a single thing you did (i know you don't anyway) because this was a long time coming - you deserved every bit of the release - lots of things this week has built up to this, and you know my feelings that 'everything happens for a reason'

{{{betsey}}}

good things to remember - he NOTICES your changes - he feels good about doing good things for you - he LISTENED

ok, time for a mild whack

i really KNOW deep down that you are tired of this limbo land, but i just gotta give you something to think about - look how long it took you to get here and look what it TOOK for you to get here at this moment - you have had your counselors, your books, this board, your friends (on and off this db) and let's just take a look at what k had

um - gary

see the picture - betz - i am NOT saying anything except that he hasn't been priveledged to have the same help that you have had over the last 16 months - sure he hasn't availed himself of it either but it does seem that he is FINALLY starting to figure it out - finally willing to admit that he played a part in all this - he sees your changes and is finally realizing that they are real and probably thinks, how the hell did she do this???

so keep that in mind before you make a final decision - you deserve the world for all the changes you have made - but if not breaking up your family is truly the goal here then 'consider' a little more time

it seems to me bets, that since you have finally GOTTEN IT that you are not being patient enough for HIM to get it...just my opinion mind you and i would respect you whatever decision you make and be behind you 100%

ya know i luv ya