Newbie and needing help please

[DnJ]

I always say in my work that relapses are a good thing as we can learn from them.

Yes!

I had a lovely 4 mile walk with a friend last night and D has persuaded me to take her on a girlie shopping trip today. I also plan on visiting IKEA (big chain Swedish furniture and accessories store). I've decided when he moves out then I'm going to redecorate our living room so it feels cosy, different and somewhere I want to be.

Also - Yes!!

Enjoy shopping with D.



By the way, I took down most of my photos of W and boxed them away. It helped.

D

[Ready2Change]

I've decided when he moves out then I'm going to redecorate our living room so it feels cosy, different and somewhere I want to be.

Why wait?

[MA1970]

What a whirlwind of a day. I've been doing quite well with detachment, walking every day and managing to eat a little. I had a talk with H today & yet again, I realise that I'm not following the DB rules. I just seem to get sucked in so quickly. I found myself mildly flirting and then giving him reassurances. I thought (very wrongly) that this was a sign that he was reconnecting with me. I went for a 7 Mile walk feeling positive & came back to him going out. When he'd gone D(16) said he had talked to her & basically admitted that he had been with OW on Friday, where they had gone (possibly with her 2 children) to a local place of scenery, on Saturday night he went to a music gig with her and today he is round at her’s as we speak. I have absolutely no words! He is still saying he is looking for a flat and won't take advantage whilst he is living with us but it's like he is deliberately going out of his way to be hurtful. I realise I've got a long way to go with the DB, it felt so nice though to have a bit of our old relationship back. On the positive side, when I do DB, it seems to be effective. He is constantly asking where I'm going and who I am with. I'm keeping up the air of mystery & trying to be as unavailable as I can.

[Kind18]

Every time you have a R discussion with him and show him you’re still keen to work things out - it’s another nail in the coffin of your marriage.

You need to seek some IC on why you keep doing this when you know it’s not the right thing to do. You seem to regret all your talks soon after, and you discover he was off with OM again and you feel like crap.

Why keep doing it? An over-riding principle of DBing is to stop doing things which haven’t worked and try something different.

Time to start acting with your brain, not your emotions.

I guarantee every time you have an interaction with him regarding your relationship he is getting further away and less likely to reconcile.

His brain:
1. I’m having an affair. What if it doesn’t work out, will MA1970 still be there to catch the pieces if this turns to sh*t?
2. I’ll ask her, check and see how strong my monkey branch is.
3. Starts relationship talk where MA1970 pleads and begs and flirts.
4. Wow, that branch is rock solid. I can go back whenever I like.
5. Also, she still wants me even when I’m treating her like dirt. That’s so pathetic and desperate.
6. I’m not attracted to someone with such low self respect.
7. I’ll should definitely move on and keep going with OW.

This is what is happening in his brain, and you keep re-inforcing it.

Time to change the script.

[MA1970]

Kind18 - I get that you're right. This wasn't an R conversation, in fact it was me asking him to leave but you are correct in that I am seeing my pattern too late & your pointers (whilst delivering some harsh realities) are helpful. He really is stalling on leaving & I get so anxious on a night when he's with her. I'm OK during the day & am engaging with others and moving towards my goals but when I'm in bed with my thoughts, it's hard. I practice mindfulness but always difficult when thoughts are coming through like a bullet train. I'll keep learning and trying to break these patterns

[DnJ]

Hello M

He is still saying he is looking for a flat and won't take advantage whilst he is living with us but it's like he is deliberately going out of his way to be hurtful.

WAS become master manipulators. Living such a duplicitous life twists one up. There is a reason adultery/affair is a sin.

When he'd gone D(16) said he had talked to her & basically admitted that he had been with OW on Friday, where they had gone (possibly with her 2 children) to a local place of scenery, on Saturday night he went to a music gig with her and today he is round at her’s as we speak.

I’d suspect H wants you to be the bad guy and kick him out. Simultaneously he is trying to normalize his actions to you all. Manipulate you and the kids into thinking this is ok.

I realize that I'm not following the DB rules.

Stop relationship talks.

Until H ends seeing her he will use R talks as fuel against himself. To prove he is a bad person and not worthy. The OW will soothe his self-inflected pains. Don’t play along. Don’t add fuel to it.

…any pearls of wisdom, particularly about how I get him out of the house are welcomed!

Treat him like a roommate. Be kind and cordial. And be a roommate.

Did you ever live with a roommate in your younger years? Did you worry if they went out? Did you ask questions of them like where and why? No, of course not. That’s where you need to get to. Focus on you and the kids. GAL. Let H go.

H needs to feel the loss to maybe reconsider what he is doing. That’s DB.

it felt so nice though to have a bit of our old relationship back.

Yes, it will. For a moment. Then reality will crash back in, and you will feel horrible all over again. Please don’t repeat this cycle too much.

Withdrawal is pretty tough. Really tough! I know!!

On the positive side, when I do DB, it seems to be effective.

It certainly can be. You moving forward on the path, saves you, and gives you the best chance at saving your marriage.

And yes, H is watching you and noticing. Stay strong and stay on course. (((Hugs)))

D

[MA1970]

Thanks DnJ, I like the room mate analogy. Today is an OK day. She'd a tear this morning but been good the rest of the day & have managed a chicken sandwich. Off for a walk later.

I'm not sure I've got the following right at all so please let me know how I could have handled it differently. H earns less than me & I have always subsidised his part in bills, mortgage & child related costs. He doesn't actually earn a lot less than me and over the years, I have built up costs on cards so have very little disposable income. I have managed this by working extra. I'm waiting for H to move out but I'm not sure he'll actually go due to cost. I spoke to him previously and said if he couldn't go then we needed to re look at his financial contribution. As I'm reading what I'm saying, I can see this maybe comes across as a threat but it wasn't said or meant like that. It's just that if he stays, I need the financial arrangement to be equal so we both have money to pursue our lives. If he goes my mum and dad have said they will help me out. When I gave him a breakdown of all the household costs today, he was shocked and immediately said I can't afford that, it will leave me with hardly anything. I said I know it’s difficult but I want this to be amicable and fair and walked out. He's come to me a couple of times since saying how stressed he is, he's taken this week off sick because of the stress and he's not eating much (that makes two of us). I can feel myself getting sucked in to protecting him again. If Im honest, part of the money thing was because I don't want him to have his cake and eat it. If he moves out, he won't be able to sustain the lifestyle he's shown OW he has. I'm back to rambling! I know I've not quite got this right so could do with some advice on next steps. Thanks as ever.

[DnJ]

Hello M

First off, see a lawyer to know where you stand financially. For example, if H were to move out, is he liable for the mortgage and bills, or not? And what about the other martial debt (cards and such)? If so, I’d expect it would be prorated according to reported income levels of the two of you. That being said, the mortgage I could see H requiring to pay a portion - if he is listed on the ownership documents. The monthly household bills, I’d think he’d not be responsible for since he isn’t living there. Of course, the kids live there, and he is responsible for a portion of their care and costs, which includes those aforementioned bills.

Once you know the legal default position of your locale on these matters, you can negotiate from there. It becomes a whole lot easier. Remember, business side.

Of course, the business side is not completely devoid of emotional influence and visa versa. So ensure you purposefully step back and really study something before agreeing.

please let me know how I could have handled it differently.

Certainly. I’ll share some observation and thoughts with what you’ve detailed.

H earns less than me & I have always subsidised his part in bills, mortgage & child related costs. He doesn't actually earn a lot less than me and over the years, I have built up costs on cards so have very little disposable income. I have managed this by working extra.

Excellent. You have a good handle of your financial situation. You being the one who usually (always?) looked after things leaves H a bit lost and befuddled of what is owned/owed and the costs of living and things.

I'm waiting for H to move out but I'm not sure he'll actually go due to cost.

If H wants to leave he will find a way.

For you, don’t wait for him. That doesn’t mean kick him out. I mean stop watching and waiting for him to decide. DB this. Remove your focus from H. Live your life. Look after the house and kids. And let H figure out what it is he is going to do, while still holding him accountable. He doesn’t get a free ride. Don’t be a doormat.

I spoke to him previously and said if he couldn't go then we needed to re look at his financial contribution. As I'm reading what I'm saying, I can see this maybe comes across as a threat but it wasn't said or meant like that.

An interesting thing is the use of the word “but”. This is not because of this topic, just a good opportunity methinks.

“But” usually is utilized as a justification for whatever proceeded it. Folks justifying some action they know or feel is not quite right but it happened anyhow.

If you are not threatening him, even unintentionally, why wait for him to decide to remain? He is currently living there. Has been for quite some time. So, revisit his and your financial contributions to the common expenses. Unless you are (were?) ok with things as they were.

In other words, why now?

If you two have separate finances, and have all along, you should have a periodic visiting of your financial health and each person’s share. I’m guessing that is not the case.

If you are serious about tweaking the contributions: Since this topic is broached with H already, sit down and do it. No blame or because of affair or possible moving out. Just to organize your finances. Otherwise, you are just rocking the boat.

When I gave him a breakdown of all the household costs today, he was shocked and immediately said I can't afford that, it will leave me with hardly anything. I said I know it’s difficult but I want this to be amicable and fair and walked out.

Yep, I’m sure that was quite eye opening for him.

You should not have said anything regarding his difficulty in his financial responsibilities. Let him own and feel his decisions. Do not be his Mom. Let him figure out how to pay for the upheaval he is after. Good for not getting dragged into a conversation with him.

Consider “but” from the above quote. Think of why you said it that way.

He's come to me a couple of times since saying how stressed he is, he's taken this week off sick because of the stress and he's not eating much (that makes two of us).

Do not show or tell him how much it is affecting you. No commiserating. Let him feel what he does.

People do not often rethink their life. They will almost certainly take the path of least resistance. It usually takes a whole lot of pain to give one enough reason to look inward. Look at us LBS, lots of pain and suffering, and in truth we’d never have looked inward if things just kept going along like they were. People usually need to hit rock bottom before they commit to a life change.

I can feel myself getting sucked in to protecting him again.

Yep, I got that sense as I was reading your post. Glad you see it.

If Im honest, part of the money thing was because I don't want him to have his cake and eat it.

I am very happy you said this. To me this thought was jumping off the page as I was reading your post as well. I actually said, “good for you” when I read your sentence. Lol. Seeing honestly is so very helpful for one’s growth.

This harkens to the bit about “but”. Right?

If he moves out, he won't be able to sustain the lifestyle he's shown OW he has.

Most likely true. And not your concern, nor the reason for taking any action. You want H to be with you because he wants to, not because he can’t afford not to.

Remember, money is just business. Bills and kids.

It's just that if he stays, I need the financial arrangement to be equal so we both have money to pursue our lives.

If he stays or goes, you need the financial resources to look after you, the house, the bills, and the kids.

To that end, you do not need to finances his affair. End the cake eating.

See a L and ensure what is what before making arrangements.

You have a spreadsheet detailing the living expenses. I think you two have separate accounts as well. Get his portion of the expenses sorted out, and let him do what he will with the rest of his income.

Approach this as business, for it is.

And realize, none of this precludes the possibility of reconciling.

D

[MA1970]

Morning DnJ, I found your words really helpful last night & they gave me a bit to think about. I have my first session of IC today and I'm looking forward to this.

First off, see a lawyer to know where you stand financially. For example, if H were to move out, is he liable for the mortgage and bills, or not? And what about the other martial debt (cards and such)? If so, I’d expect it would be prorated according to reported income levels of the two of you. That being said, the mortgage I could see H requiring to pay a portion - if he is listed on the ownership documents. The monthly household bills, I’d think he’d not be responsible for since he isn’t living there. Of course, the kids live there, and he is responsible for a portion of their care and costs, which includes those aforementioned bills.

This is really useful. I know you've mentioned it before & I just thought that H has always been such a good man that we can sort something that works for both of us. I also thought it feels like it's making it more definite and likely to happen. I am starting to see things differently now.

An interesting thing is the use of the word “but”. This is not because of this topic, just a good opportunity methinks.

“But” usually is utilized as a justification for whatever proceeded it. Folks justifying some action they know or feel is not quite right but it happened anyhow.

If you are not threatening him, even unintentionally, why wait for him to decide to remain? He is currently living there. Has been for quite some time. So, revisit his and your financial contributions to the common expenses. Unless you are (were?) ok with things as they were.

In other words, why now?

If you two have separate finances, and have all along, you should have a periodic visiting of your financial health and each person’s share. I’m guessing that is not the case.

If you are serious about tweaking the contributions: Since this topic is broached with H already, sit down and do it. No blame or because of affair or possible moving out. Just to organize your finances. Otherwise, you are just rocking the boat.

I've broached this now because we get paid in 1 week and also he's said there is a flat coming on to the lettings list in March. I don't really believe this so wanted to get our house finances in order. I am terrified he will be seeing this as me being vindictive and this will bias his thinking negatively towards me. However, I am also starting to realise that if that is the case, then I can't influence his mind. He needs to do him and I need to do me!

Interestingly, he put a wash on and tidied the kitchen for the first time since he admitted to the affair last night. Don't know what that is about. Possibly another manipulation following the finance talk.

[BL42]

First off, see a lawyer to know where you stand financially.

This is really useful. I know you've mentioned it before & I just thought that H has always been such a good man that we can sort something that works for both of us. I also thought it feels like it's making it more definite and likely to happen. I am starting to see things differently now.

Do not rely on H being "such a good man". Absolutely consult a lawyer to see where you stand. These things often take a turn for the worse as time goes on. Know your rights. It doesn't mean you or he has to pursue any action, but knowledge equals power.

I am terrified he will be seeing this as me being vindictive and this will bias his thinking negatively towards me. However, I am also starting to realise that if that is the case, then I can't influence his mind. He needs to do him and I need to do me!

He is already having an affair. He is already wanting a divorce. Think of it like the worse has already happened. Stop walking on glass; It's time to drop your fear about exactly what words to say or what to do. Instead stand up for yourself and do what's best for you and the kids.

Interestingly, he put a wash on and tidied the kitchen for the first time since he admitted to the affair last night. Don't know what that is about. Possibly another manipulation following the finance talk.

My W did tons of yardwork the month she left. Why would you do that right before you walk out? Who knows...doesn't always make sense.