I also struggle with some of the wisdom of hard-liners on this site compared to what you espouse. For instance, it wouldn't be an alpha move to realize that W may be struggling with her MLC. I don't even know if she's "struggling" at the moment - she seems happy with the replay phase, new fake boobs, and going out like a college kid (last night at least).
Alpha males are intelligent, confident, and successful. They usually make great leaders, and prefer and seek positions of power. A sigma male has similar traits, with being more a loner and having a less dominating leadership style, they lead without exerting authority. And they stay outside the social hierarchy.
For me, someone successful usually has a good capacity for noticing others, and a high decree of emotional intelligence (compassion and empathy). And great leaders, lead from the back of the pack. They put their best fighters at the front, while they stay in the back to ensure the pace won’t lose anyone, and to help those who struggle. In my view, noticing and realizing W’s struggles would be a most sigma (alpha-ish) trait.
The other half of that mindset, is the confidence to let go and move forward. This action phase seems to get the most attention and encouragement, with the underlying compassion being overlooked or put aside. Yet, the underpinnings of why, need to be understood for one to find their way, and embrace it.
For what it’s worth, W is going to appear like her life is going great. Happy with her new life and behaviours, new augmentations, new friends, etc. She will expend tremendous energies maintaining her fantasy/reality. She has to. Yet, in the still darkness of night, when she is still and at rest, her demons will come out, and she will struggle.
Originally Posted by Doug54
…remaining under the same roof provided the best chance at working things out. However, this doesn't provide a chance for people to see whether or not they miss their partner.
“Missing their partner” is more an emotional thing than a physical thing. The idea is letting them feel what it is like to lose you. Not see what it is like.
Kind, cordial, being a roommate, and so on. All good ideas. However, no one strategy or method works in every situation or even within one situation. One of the great strengths of this board is the various viewpoints from all kinds of different situations. At times, most times, you will focus on you, detach, be more a roommate. At other times, you will offer or partake in family activities - like getting a Christmas tree for example. And other times it’s a hard line approach. In house separation can allow time and space, and yet still allow some connection. IHS is difficult, and if done well I believe will yield one’s best chance.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks for the words of wisdom, DnJ. Your advice and insight are like a salve soothing a burn. Admittedly, I backslid a little and snooped around recently. I saw that W had paid for some online sex course thing and confronted her about it. Definitely not adhering to DB principles, obviously. She gave some excuse about how it was recommended to her, female empowerment, blah blah.
I know snooping around isn't generally recommended, but didn't SteveLW say "trust but verify"?
Here is a brief recap of my situation:
-August 2019: stepdaughter goes away to college. W cries on the drive home after we move her in. In hindsight, I'm wondering if this was a kickoff point for W's MLC.
-March 2020: Covid. Everyone is home. I don't necessarily remember more stress in our particular household, but there seems to be plenty of literature about Covid / lockdowns straining relationships.
-November 2021: W asks me to help fix her laptop and flies across the kitchen to grab it away when a Facebook Messenger window pops up. Everything happened too quickly for me to read anything. Lots of arguing about it that day.
-December 2021: we take a trip as a couple right before New Year's. Everything seems fine.
-February-ish to March/April 2022: W seems to be growing distant and starts seeing a counselor in March. This turned out to be largely an attempt at painting me as a bad husband / "narcissist" and more or less legitimizing her EA and possibly PA. The "bomb drop" came in the form of me pressing her about what was going on. There was a reference to how it might just be a phase she was going through and she didn't "feel the same" towards me. (insert eye roll emoji)
-May to July 2022: probably the height of "going through the motions" in the household. There were still bedroom relations but almost all talk was limited to kid-related stuff. We do three ill-advised joint counseling sessions and a "keeping up appearances" summer trip with the kids. Before this past week, the last time I snooped around was I believe the end of July.
-August to November 2022: I try to apply DB principles and adopt that mindset for the most part. No snooping around, which I feel helps my mental state, but in doing so, I guess I was burying my head in the sand. W pulls back on going to her counselor and no talk of divorce or splitting up. Some ups and downs in there, I'm sure (going by memory here). I largely stabilize at work with not thinking about the marriage situation all the time.
-December 2022: Mostly a good month. W seems a little less guarded with her phone and even shows me a few things on it, lets son play on it. Probably a mirage. W increases non-sexual touch at bedtime (in addition to sexual touch at times)- back scratches, etc. which had been absent for quite a while. General conversation is almost about normal. We talk about things other than just the kids. W goes to get breast augmentation procedure, texting me often and "after" photos. W vents about my parents increasingly, a frequent source of conflict. I try to validate but once or twice make an offhand comment like "Why do you care about them so much? It's not going to matter before too long" (a reference to splitting up).
-Late December: discover the sex site online course thing. Open separate bank account the next day. See that W had messaged her counselor about it, venting. Also in there:
W: "I feel guilty and awful now, I mean, it is because of things I'm doing" Counselor: "Don't know what to tell you about that" W: "It's all jealousy and wants to punish me" W: "But he'll go along just fine without a care in the world and then suddenly decides to fixate on me doing something. Nothing has changed, he just decides to get obsessive."
(No further reply from counselor). That reference to me "going along just fine" is obviously where I'm trying to DB and not act controlling. So anyway - extremely long-winded recap of where not snooping might get you - obliviousness.
Thanks for the recap. It helps me keep your sitch from blending with everyones.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I know snooping around isn't generally recommended, but didn't SteveLW say "trust but verify"?
Most people can't emotionally handle what they find, that is why once you know what is going on, stop.
It then comes down to a trust issue and all the deception. Most do not address it correctly. Either over react emotionally or put their head in the sand.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Hi Doug54, I relate to a lot of aspects of your sitch. All I can say is, you're not alone.
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For instance, it wouldn't be an alpha move to realize that W may be struggling with her MLC. I don't even know if she's "struggling" at the moment - she seems happy with the replay phase, new fake boobs, and going out like a college kid (last night at least).
Happy people don't go around making huge changes, withdrawing from their families, trying to escape their lives. She might feel good in the moment when she's getting her fix, but I would be very surprised if she isn't actually struggling deep (or not-so-deep) down.
I say this because my H recently admitted to me multiple times that he's really, really unhappy. This after claiming that his life has been so much better without me in it. One of the first things he told me about a month into our separation was that he's way happier and enjoys his job (he'd complained about his job a lot before). But last week, he told me that he actually isn't happy with his job—he feels like he's just going through the motions, and he's applying for a new one in a different country! And then he followed up with a really self-pitying, stream-of-conscious text about how things aren't easy for him and he's just trying to get by.
He kicked me out of his life, hit a new fitness milestone, and is having an affair. But he still isn't happy.
I also agree with LH that she's throwing you under the bus in the text with the counselor. She's blaming you for her problems.
By the way, I also recently found out some troubling information (my H's affairs) through an anti-DB method. I didn't snoop though, I steered an interaction towards an R talk. I understand the many reasons why not having R talks are the #1 rule of DBing: among others, it will likely become highly charged, pushing your spouse even further away, and your spouse will probably not be 100% honest and/or give unsatisfying answers because they are likely confused themselves. All of this is incredibly painful for the LBS.
But in the end, I think my anti-DBing move actually served my ultimate DB goal of taking my power back and maintaining my sanity. Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely traumatized by H's confession of the affairs. But I nevertheless appreciate knowing what's going on. And I prefer to have gotten the info from him rather than from someone else, which was bound to happen eventually. I am also relieved, in a way, to know that I wasn't crazy to harbor suspicions.
I admit that I am totally itching to know more about the extent of my H's infidelity, but at least for now, the healthiest choice for me is just to leave it here, just process the knowledge of the existence of the infidelity without torturing myself with details.
So I guess the point is, it's all about how you react to the information. I really see the wisdom R2C and LH19's advice re: 1) stop snooping once you know what is going on and 2) either ignore and GAL or confront and be firm about consequences. What reaction(s) will best serve your goals?
I can relate too. WW said she was unhappy at BD - she just wanted adventure joy and passion. Left me and family and long time deep solid friends and went wild. At ONE point shortly after she said she was happy. Then since very unhappy, life is so hard, so much stress etc.
