Lh- I at am the limit for anymore OM shenanigans. If she starts up with om1 again or finds #2 I’m done. No discussion, I’m out. I let her know that when she came home. I have also set a date for this limbo bs to end. 4/2/23 will be 1 year from BD. If nothing has changed I will have to decide if I’m willing to stay the course.
This is great. Except that you need to change that last sentence. if 4/2/23 is the drop dead date, then you need to have a clear action ahead of you. "If nothing has changed (what?) I will have to decide if I'm willing to stay the course." Wishy-washy.
Here was how mine looked and I put it right in my signature. "I have decided to give her 1 year from BD. If on 12/23/2018 she isn't fully committed back to the marriage, I will go file for D myself!"
See the difference. Clear expectation (she being committed back to the marriage in totality) then clear action (I would go file for D myself).
You're right, I would need to be more clear. I guess at this point I'm not committed to that so I am being wishy washy. I hate to think about it because in the end I do want it to work. It seems like if an entire year passes and she isn't ready to commit, she never will be. I know 1 year is just an arbitrary length of time, but if a year isn't enough time what is? Maybe at that point me wanting out will be what lights a fire under her azz. Don't know, just rambling.
Mike, you need to decide what the drop dead date looks like? For me it was that I was willing to live in limbo for 1 year to give her a chance to make her decision. But that I was unwilling to live in limbo beyond that so I would make the decision for her. It sounds to me like you are trying to use the drop dead date to motivate her. That is bad because it has expectations attached to it.
The drop dead date is for you. Not her. You shouldn't even tell her about the drop dead date. For all of the reasons that I gave you about ultimatums being bad. She'll appease it, she won't really be committed back, etc. Obviously, you have time to decide this. I highly encourage having one. Limbo in an in-home separation is a terrible place to be. So having a date where you will take action to end limbo is a good thing. But you have to decide for you how long that is. For me it was 1 year. For you it might be 1 1/2 years or two years. Think about it though, because otherwise you could be waiting a lifetime. Life is too short to let these things go on into perpetuity.
Last edited by SteveLW; 12/14/2202:03 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Of course I have changed. If I was the same guy as I was prior to BD I would have never stuck it out.
Tell us a little about how you changed. What is different about you after 6 months?
Originally Posted by MikeP
I treat her as if she didn't do any of this crap 99.9% of the time.
What does tha look like?
Originally Posted by MikeP
I've changed my lazy behaviors and how I interact with W.
How do you interact with her now as opposed to how you used to?
Originally Posted by MikeP
Please elaborate on how this has nothing to do with W or the om.
Affairs are acts of anger -- she has built up a ton of resentment toward you, and since she's avoidant, she hasn't given voice to any of it or worked any of it through. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, or that you deserve her resentment, it could be completely irrational, but the point is that it exists.
Once people have affairs, they *initially* feel guilty and will beat themselves up about it, but eventually self-protection takes over and they refuse to believe that they are bad people.
So if she's not a bad person, then the reason she did a bad thing must have been because *you* drove her to it, you made her do it, and therefore *you* are the bad person and she is the victim.
Once she gets there, she'll seek any evidence to reinforce her viewpoint and will reject anything that contradicts it. That's why she will vilify you and nothing you do will be good. You simply can't win because she's an expert at confirmation bias at this point.
Virtually no one gets any real remorse -- the wayward spouse will feel sorry for themselves for "how you made them feel" about the affair, but they won't really feel remorse for their actions because they convince themselves that they were justified and that you were to blame.
Limbo in an in-home separation is a terrible place to be. So having a date where you will take action to end limbo is a good thing. But you have to decide for you how long that is. For me it was 1 year. For you it might be 1 1/2 years or two years. Think about it though, because otherwise you could be waiting a lifetime. Life is too short to let these things go on into perpetuity.
Originally Posted by MikeP
Of course I have changed. If I was the same guy as I was prior to BD I would have never stuck it out. I treat her as if she didn't do any of this crap 99.9% of the time. I've changed my lazy behaviors and how I interact with W. Please elaborate on how this has nothing to do with W or the om. How I interact with others? My behavior? You make it sound as if I'm some giant a-hole, treating everyone badly. Maybe I'm just not understanding your point.
For me, these 2 things go together a bit....
Being in Limbo is your choice. It's always been your choice and will continue to be your choice until you choose differently..
Because you are still trying to fix and apply the rules of a marriage to your decisions.
You are still waiting for her to guide you through this, and are basing your choices on what she thinks, sees, feels, touches, smells....
And although you have scratched the surface of what is real, you are only just beginning to see yourself outside of your vows.
Mike, if she were to come to you today with a total commitment to the marriage, how long until things fell apart again because you haven't forgiven, or moved past the past few months ?
So let me ask you some "hard" questions...
What does true love really mean to you ??
Not the Hollywood bullsh!t "soulmate" description either, nor something you read somewhere...
What does it mean to you to look at her and love her regardless of what's going on around you right now. ???
What does it look like to realize that she isn't doing anything to you. She is doing this for herself.
Understanding that she has spent YEARS being everything for everyone else except herself, and she has zero clue who the heck she is right now.
What does it mean to stand by her while she finds out ?
What does it mean to honor your vows, even if you are the only one living them ??
What would it look like to forgive her for everything that has happened ??
What would it look like for you to forgive yourself for everything that has happened ??
I get asked how I made it through living two and a half years in Limbo, with live-in MLCer....
And my answer is this....
I didn't live in Limbo ....
I chose to spend 2.5 years learning the answers to those questions, and was so busy in my own head that I didn't have time to focus on what was wrong....
I was learning what could be right...
I was learning that she had carried our marriage on her back for years, and it was my turn to carry it for a while until we each had our answers....
Limbo is a state of mind, where you stop living your life while waiting on another person to figure out your fate....
It's your choice to live in limbo, or to start answering those questions.
Because I Agree with R2C....
You haven't grown all that much yet...
Although the potential is there....and we see it. Hence the push...
R2....didn't mean to speak for ya there....
I had actually been thinking about the same thing for a couple days now..
Lh- I at am the limit for anymore OM shenanigans. If she starts up with om1 again or finds #2 I’m done. No discussion, I’m out. I let her know that when she came home. I have also set a date for this limbo bs to end. 4/2/23 will be 1 year from BD. If nothing has changed I will have to decide if I’m willing to stay the course.
This is great. Except that you need to change that last sentence. if 4/2/23 is the drop dead date, then you need to have a clear action ahead of you. "If nothing has changed (what?) I will have to decide if I'm willing to stay the course." Wishy-washy.
Here was how mine looked and I put it right in my signature. "I have decided to give her 1 year from BD. If on 12/23/2018 she isn't fully committed back to the marriage, I will go file for D myself!"
See the difference. Clear expectation (she being committed back to the marriage in totality) then clear action (I would go file for D myself).
You're right, I would need to be more clear. I guess at this point I'm not committed to that so I am being wishy washy. I hate to think about it because in the end I do want it to work. It seems like if an entire year passes and she isn't ready to commit, she never will be. I know 1 year is just an arbitrary length of time, but if a year isn't enough time what is? Maybe at that point me wanting out will be what lights a fire under her azz. Don't know, just rambling.
Mike, you need to decide what the drop dead date looks like? For me it was that I was willing to live in limbo for 1 year to give her a chance to make her decision. But that I was unwilling to live in limbo beyond that so I would make the decision for her. It sounds to me like you are trying to use the drop dead date to motivate her. That is bad because it has expectations attached to it.
The drop dead date is for you. Not her. You shouldn't even tell her about the drop dead date. For all of the reasons that I gave you about ultimatums being bad. She'll appease it, she won't really be committed back, etc. Obviously, you have time to decide this. I highly encourage having one. Limbo in an in-home separation is a terrible place to be. So having a date where you will take action to end limbo is a good thing. But you have to decide for you how long that is. For me it was 1 year. For you it might be 1 1/2 years or two years. Think about it though, because otherwise you could be waiting a lifetime. Life is too short to let these things go on into perpetuity.
Definitely not telling her about it. I may have been unclear on that, sorry if I was. I'm thinking about it for myself and how long I think I can continue with limbo. Maybe 1 year, maybe longer. Life is definitely too short and I'm about to start a new chapter (retirement) next month. I've looked forward to this time for too long to not enjoy it now. Thanks.
I guess at this point I'm not committed to that so I am being wishy washy. I hate to think about it because in the end I do want it to work. It seems like if an entire year passes and she isn't ready to commit, she never will be. I know 1 year is just an arbitrary length of time, but if a year isn't enough time what is? Maybe at that point me wanting out will be what lights a fire under her azz.
You are not committed to that end, so do not go down that road.
Yes, things feel bleak. An entire year of no movement means what? Or how much more time would be needed? Maybe I’ll just light a fire under her a bit and she’ll wake up. You are talking to your ever-listening mind, and it is crafting your reality.
Mike, stand for you. Live for your values and convictions.
Limbo can be a horrible torment. A purgatory like state. However, when one chooses limbo. Ah, things change.
A choice, a commitment, to that path turns it from a tormenting intolerable limbo into much better. Choice relieves the intolerable-ness. After all, one chose it.
The limbo-ness also disappears. One lives their life and values. Realize your entire life is not on hold, not in a state of limbo. Perhaps one part is less, or far less, than you’d like. That does not paint your entire existence.
Ending this with an arbitrary date will not change much. Limbo, like lonely, follows a person. One can live alone and not be lonely. And, one can be in a group setting and be utterly lonely. Limbo is a state of mind, more than a circumstance once you embrace your ability to choose and/or realize the choice you’ve made.
I get how it feels wishy washy. Realize doing nothing is doing something. Taking action will certainly feel powerful. Yet, standing strong, being a stanchion, that lighthouse, does show fortitude, strength, and commitment.
I absolutely agree with the others that limbo is a terrible place. And yes, a drop dead date, a date to end limbo, would be for you and not shared with W. Thing is, in my opinion, that date is today, and the mechanism for ending limbo is different.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I'll try an address LH and Mach at the same time here. Me from 6 months ago- I didn't try to see things from her point of view, everything was black and white. This ties into what Mach said, I'm trying very hard to understand that she didn't do this "to" me. It happened for a variety of reasons and a lot of those reasons were my fault. When we do have R talks, which are not happening now but used to, I don't just beat her over the head with "you cheated" or "you hurt me" etc. I have said that a few times in the beginning when she would act like I should just get over it. I don't now. I treat her kindly, the way I want to be treated. Probably the main difference in our interactions is that I'm not as impatient, I try and look at situations through her eyes, I'm not short with her when she annoys me or doesn't understand something I'm trying to explain. I am an impatient person. I'm aware of it and changing. I'm also working on my negativity, which I have mentioned before. I think she may be operating in reverse with the guilt/anger dynamic. She seemed angry/resentful in the beginning. Now she doesn't seem angry at all.
Mach I get what you mean about applying rules of marriage to this and that it doesn't work. I'm trying not to, I really am. After 25+ years following those rules, it's difficult. As long as she spends everyday working around and with the om I'm going to struggle, not going to lie. It almost feels pointless to continue sometimes. I feel she won't come back to me if she's with him everyday. My problem, I know. I try to act as if she isn't interested in him anymore, doesn't work very well.
I'm not sure how long we would last if she recommitted today. I don't honestly know that she will ever be willing to do anything beyond wanting to forget and move on. That won't work. I tell myself I have forgiven the affair. I still get angry if I think about it but trying to understand why it happened allows me to forgive her. True love- Being a compassionate ear when needed. Wanting to spend time together, just being- not necessarily doing anything. Wanting to do things for each other, that we know the other appreciates, not feeling obligated to. When I think of her I smile, it makes me happy. Growing old together, happily, and watching our children begin lives of their own. In the past I could picture her smiling eyes if I was having a crap day and that could turn it around. She was always such a happy person and she made me a better, happier person when I was around her. Is that love? It feels like it to me. I never bought in to the Hollywood bs either. I do understand her losing her sense of self, I guess I struggle to understand how she dealt with it (affair) and how she is currently dealing with it. I have felt the same way over the years and didn't react that way so I have a hard time accepting it I suppose. Everyone is different. That's part of me trying to be less black and white about everything, not always succeeding obviously. Maybe my lack of understanding is because I still worry about her and the om instead of just focusing on me and letting it go. It's hard to think it's about how she's feeling if I think she still wants to be with him. I know the om is a symptom of her problem and not the cause of my problems, it sure feels like it though. Maybe I need to remind myself of our vows. Especially the in sickness and health, for better or for worse parts. In a sense you could say this is a sickness and definitely is for worse. I should look at it that way going forward.
I haven't grown as much as I need too. I have changed. For the better. My biggest problem isn't growth or change though, in my opinion. I struggle with feeling hopeless. A lot. I feel like I'm on this rollercoaster that everyone talks about and when it ends, I will be standing there alone. Thanks for the hard questions. I haven't really put that amount of effort into thinking before now.
For the record, I come on here and vent about things in my head. I don't tell these things to W. I vent here to avoid that. Thanks everyone.
I guess at this point I'm not committed to that so I am being wishy washy. I hate to think about it because in the end I do want it to work. It seems like if an entire year passes and she isn't ready to commit, she never will be. I know 1 year is just an arbitrary length of time, but if a year isn't enough time what is? Maybe at that point me wanting out will be what lights a fire under her azz.
You are not committed to that end, so do not go down that road.
Yes, things feel bleak. An entire year of no movement means what? Or how much more time would be needed? Maybe I’ll just light a fire under her a bit and she’ll wake up. You are talking to your ever-listening mind, and it is crafting your reality.
Mike, stand for you. Live for your values and convictions.
Limbo can be a horrible torment. A purgatory like state. However, when one chooses limbo. Ah, things change.
A choice, a commitment, to that path turns it from a tormenting intolerable limbo into much better. Choice relieves the intolerable-ness. After all, one chose it.
The limbo-ness also disappears. One lives their life and values. Realize your entire life is not on hold, not in a state of limbo. Perhaps one part is less, or far less, than you’d like. That does not paint your entire existence.
Ending this with an arbitrary date will not change much. Limbo, like lonely, follows a person. One can live alone and not be lonely. And, one can be in a group setting and be utterly lonely. Limbo is a state of mind, more than a circumstance once you embrace your ability to choose and/or realize the choice you’ve made.
I get how it feels wishy washy. Realize doing nothing is doing something. Taking action will certainly feel powerful. Yet, standing strong, being a stanchion, that lighthouse, does show fortitude, strength, and commitment.
I absolutely agree with the others that limbo is a terrible place. And yes, a drop dead date, a date to end limbo, would be for you and not shared with W. Thing is, in my opinion, that date is today, and the mechanism for ending limbo is different.
D
Lonely does follow a person. I was lonely long before BD and even more so now. To be honest, setting a drop dead date doesn't make me feel strong at all. It feels like giving up. Others may feel strong for doing it, I can understand that, but it would feel like giving up to me. I was thinking about the Lighthouse story last night. I want to be that Lighthouse. Not doing so well at it right now. Thanks for the words of encouragement.
I haven't grown as much as I need too. I have changed. For the better. My biggest problem isn't growth or change though, in my opinion. I struggle with feeling hopeless. A lot. I feel like I'm on this rollercoaster that everyone talks about and when it ends, I will be standing there alone. Thanks for the hard questions. I haven't really put that amount of effort into thinking before now.
I really liked your answers, and I will prolly come back to them after I "hear" them....
I haven't grown as much as I need too. I have changed. For the better. My biggest problem isn't growth or change though, in my opinion. I struggle with feeling hopeless. A lot. I feel like I'm on this rollercoaster that everyone talks about and when it ends, I will be standing there alone. Thanks for the hard questions. I haven't really put that amount of effort into thinking before now.
I really liked your answers, and I will prolly come back to them after I "hear" them....
I just wanted to ask this....
Why would you say, that you feel hopeless ?
Funny you should ask. Your last post really got me thinking. I just ran out to get lunch. I was thinking about it while driving. I think maybe I feel hopeless because I am being self centered and only thinking about me. Being the victim, which I despise. Not even fully aware that I'm doing it. I read all these other stories and most of them don't have the fairy tale happy ending. So I'm just having a pity party in my head for poor me. My W told me something a while back when I mentioned her unwillingness to "try" to work on things. She said everyday she wakes up and is still at home, with me feels like a win. She sees that as trying. At the time, I didn't say it to her, I thought that was a bs answer. So yes, I have more growing to do. These infrequent moments of clarity are nice. I wish there were more of them.
