I would be very careful with paying a retainer fee. I would visit at least 3 more lawyers with free consults. You should be able to pay with cash for 1 hour consults after that.
You can also go to your local court and watch some D proceedings. You can see lawyers in action and listen.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I would be very careful with paying a retainer fee. I would visit at least 3 more lawyers with free consults. You should be able to pay with cash for 1 hour consults after that.
You can also go to your local court and watch some D proceedings. You can see lawyers in action and listen.
Ayep...
In addition to...
If you consult, she won't be able to use them against you....
For now though, I'm still not sure why you are doing the legwork for something that you do not want....
I agree with DNJ, do not sign anything without a lawyer looking at the information. When they are sitting on the fence and hoping that you'll take the reins and do the heavy lifting, they will ask for the moon. They just don't care if you have to be on the street corner with a tin cup just as long as they get everything they ask for. They think that the divorce decree is the answer to "freedom". They think the grass is greener on the other side, but it's not. Happiness comes from within and not from external "stuff".
We are a "divorce busting" forum and we do not advocate divorcing right out the gate. We try to work with the posters and help guide them through the process of separation and the ups and downs you will face along the way. We are here to listen and offer advice and sometimes posters have questions on how to navigate a divorce, i.e., as to what to do and not do. Ultimately, it is your decision as to whether you want to move forward and do the paperwork yourself, but seriously, if she wants the divorce, then she should be the one to do the work.
I would sit back, gather your information and be prepared if and when the time comes and you need to move forward. Start looking around for a good lawyer, one that will not be in a rush to the court house to file papers. That lawyer will need to work for you are the one that will tell him/her what you want to do...do not allow him/her to push you into something you are not ready to do. Gather information and then think about what you want to do.
No matter what happens, we are here to support you throughout your journey and we want you to know that you will be okay. Try to look at the situation as a business deal and make decisions with your brain and not your heart. Keep the focus on you and your family and live your life to the fullest the best you can at the moment.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
So even MWD says in her book not all marriages are meant to be saved. This is one of them. Your w has had multiple affairs, stays out all night after going to the bars and mocks and manipulates you. She is not a good person and you deserve so much better. If she wants out now and gives you a good deal take it. The heavy lifting BS just delays the process. Your objective is to get away from her as soon as possible. If and its a very big if she gets her $hit together you can revisit it in the future. 3 years from now I promise you that you will wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.
I agree with LH19. “Don’t do the legwork” can sometimes be bad advice.
Perhaps it stems from people who believe since the WAS or WS are the ones leaving, they should be punished by forcing them to do all the hard work and making it a marathon. But sometimes, it’s damaging to the LBS if things are dragged out.
What I do agree with, is don’t rush to divorce if you aren’t sure it’s appropriate. And don’t rush to it to teach them a lesson, or force their hand to decide either way.
But in a relationship like this, I’d encourage you to think about getting it done. I think, deep down, you know that this person is bad for you and the chances of having a happy, healthy relationship in the future are very slim. Would you perpetuate/extend your grief and pain by 1,2,3 or 5 years on a 5% chance (that’s generous) you might be able to make it work? I certainly wouldn’t! And as others say, if it’s meant to be, they’ll come back. Get the divorce done, protect your finances, draw a line in the sand and start again… if in 3 years they fall to their knees, admit some responsibility and beg for your forgiveness - well there’s nothing stopping you from re-marrying.
In some jurisdictions, divorce has advantages. In Australia, once 12 months have passed since the divorce decree was made final, they can’t apply for spousal maintenance (similar to alimony). If you’re just separated but not divorced, even if you have finance and custody orders in place, they can come after you at any time. Imagine her living with AP for five years, then she gets dumped, and suddenly hits you with more $$ claims.
Divorcing can put a line in the sand which protects you into the future.
It will also make you feel better. For me, an unexpected BD due to an affair and then mega court battle for finance and children (plus losing my job due COVID) made me feel like my life was spiralling completely out of my control. Filing for divorce was me saying aloud that I was no longer going to be treated like that, that I was drawing a line in the sand for our finances - and for the first time, I felt like I was gaining back a bit of control over my life.
Another good benefit was that I no longer had to hide her behaviour and choices from friends/family. It definitely was the catalyst that started my transition from Mr Nice Guy Syndrome to being a strong, independent man who knew what he was worth.
Also, these people are often desperate to disappear off with AP as soon as possible, and with a minimum of fuss. Sometimes, in such desperation to get out, they’ll take a cra**y deal. Drag it out a year or two, and you might find they’ll want to take more and more.
Was I 100% sure it was the right thing to do at the time? Definitely not. I don’t think any LBS would ever make the decision to file for divorce with 100% conviction. I was probably 80% sure by then that it was never go to work out, and despite the pressure of trying to keep the family together for my kids, 80% was more than enough.
Do I regret it? No way. I’d have done it sooner, except the law didn’t allow me to file until we’d been separated 12 months.
None of us can tell you what to do. Every situation is unique. I certainly wouldn’t encourage someone who isn’t ready to file for divorce. But you also need to look at it from the reverse sense… the fights, the arguments, the lies, the manipulation, the cheating, the sex with AP boundary… exactly what would be enough for you to say this can not be reconciled and my best future is without this person?
So even MWD says in her book not all marriages are meant to be saved. This is one of them. Your w has had multiple affairs, stays out all night after going to the bars and mocks and manipulates you. She is not a good person and you deserve so much better. If she wants out now and gives you a good deal take it. The heavy lifting BS just delays the process. Your objective is to get away from her as soon as possible. If and its a very big if she gets her $hit together you can revisit it in the future. 3 years from now I promise you that you will wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.
Yep, she does say that...
Sadly though, you don't get to make that choice for him....
I'm pretty sure that he typed into Google, " How to save my Marriage"
Not..." How to be Divorced and bitter..."
Truth is, even though every Marriage isn't meant to be saved, every Marriage deserves it's best shot before letting some random guy, who doesn't know both sides of the story make that call for it...
Just remember that you are posting on a Pro-Marriage forum LH..
DW's situation might very well end up at that point, and I support it either way it goes....
So even MWD says in her book not all marriages are meant to be saved. This is one of them. Your w has had multiple affairs, stays out all night after going to the bars and mocks and manipulates you. She is not a good person and you deserve so much better. If she wants out now and gives you a good deal take it. The heavy lifting BS just delays the process. Your objective is to get away from her as soon as possible. If and its a very big if she gets her $hit together you can revisit it in the future. 3 years from now I promise you that you will wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.
Yep, she does say that...
Sadly though, you don't get to make that choice for him....
I'm pretty sure that he typed into Google, " How to save my Marriage"
Not..." How to be Divorced and bitter..."
Truth is, even though every Marriage isn't meant to be saved, every Marriage deserves it's best shot before letting some random guy, who doesn't know both sides of the story make that call for it...
Just remember that you are posting on a Pro-Marriage forum LH..
DW's situation might very well end up at that point, and I support it either way it goes....
As long as it's his choice....
Of course its his decision just like a spider chooses to spin a web........
What IMO tends to be a disservice is advice to drag this misery out longer than it has to.......
I am Pro-marriage when two people respect one another
I think you need need to check yourself Mach1 and stay on your side of the street bro........
I appreciate all of the input here. I have spent the better part of the past week thinking of what exactly I want to do right now. There are a lot of variables at play, but I did decide that I want to fight to save my marriage. I know that there are a lot of things I cannot control. My wife may decide next week that she's going to complete the paperwork and file for D. I am comfortable with that. I know some people get D and then get back together, but based on the chaos D will create for my household, I don't believe that is not an option in my situation. So basically it's all or nothing in my mind, and I'm not ready to throw it away just yet. I am in no rush and I do not think potential pros (moving on quicker, better deal in D, etc) are things that I value right now.
One of my biggest concerns with D is that it will be a financial disaster based on things I have mentioned before (We have no option to keep our house, the house/rent/interest costs are so high we will both be living in places comparable to our first apartment when we were 19, we have 5 pets, I will have to pay spousal support for around 5 years and child support for 14, before school childcare when I have D4, etc.) I have checked with the online support calculators and it will be rough making that work in my location. I know I would still be able to get through it one way or another if I had to, but it is still a huge factor.
It may sound like financial concerns are the only reason that I don't want to go through with a D. It is not. My W has been a crazy, unpredictable roller coaster ride the past several months. But I know that she was not and likely will not always be this way. A similar situation happened before and she was able to pull herself back to normalcy eventually. It was a much shorter turnaround time than this time, but her sh!tty friend group, her AP, her crazy behaviors vanished for over a decade before they came back again this year. And I do understand my role in causing those things to creep back in. I am not at fault for her infidelity, that's on her. And she absolutely had a part in us getting to this point. But I also now understand my role in preventing a poor relationship, which is something I have not understood for the entirety of our R. If by some miracle we are able to make things work, I am confident that I've learned enough to avoid going through this again. If not, at least I have some tools to move forward with someone else.
I've spoken about her childhood trauma a little bit, and the therapist she's been seeing the past few weeks has been focusing on that trauma. Sounds like they believe she has trauma from our relationship as well, but that's another conversation. W doesn't talk to me about any specifics, but I truly believe her trauma has at least equal weight with this situation as my failures as a husband. And I believe I owe it to my family to let the therapy portion play out a little longer. As I said, I am not in a rush. When I take a step back and think about her actions, they don't seem to line up with someone who wants to throw everything away right now. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, maybe she's conflicted, maybe she's waiting for a better opportunity, I don't know. She could have moved out months ago when we had money saved up and she didn't. I'm pretty sure she could have moved in with AP, especially when I told her to leave. She didn't. Is it to spare herself the shame/guilt of moving on right away and being the one to end everything? I don't know. Many of her behaviors seem typical for all WW's, so maybe that is standard, I don't know. What I do know is that I am willing to wait things out at this time. Maybe that changes in a month, maybe not. I'll just take it a day at a time and see how it plays out.
Originally Posted by Kind18
exactly what would be enough for you to say this can not be reconciled and my best future is without this person?
I will spend time thinking about this question. I truly care about the vows I made when we got married. If my W wants a D, she knows what she has to do. I will obviously not wait forever, but at the beginning I gave myself 1 year. Right now it hasn't even been 6 months. Right now I don't know if my best future is with or without my wife. I've read here that many times the WW does not come back the same person, so maybe that question cannot be answered at this time. But while I work through that decision, I will focus on the things I've learned here, keep reading books (including DR again), re-read my threads as well as others, get a better grasp of boundaries and validation, keep setting personal goals, spend as much time as I can with the kids, and GAL as much as possible. If that is still not enough, I know I'll feel much better knowing that I did what I could.
Again, thank you all for providing your perspectives and advice. Even when it's conflicting, it is very helpful. It's tough leaning on friends/family for these situations because of the potential ramifications. Having opinions from people who have been through similar situations as I'm going through that do not affect my relationships with friends/family is a gift that I truly appreciate.
That's not playing fair....