Living with WAW 3

[Kind18]

Personally, I think it sounds like she’s desperate to get out quickly so she can legitimise her affair.

That could seriously work for you to get a great custody and finance deal.

I would take it to your lawyer, and get them to help you draft what you want. Custody, finance, alimony, child support - the whole works - tipped heavily in your favour, but not so much so that a judge would throw it out. You need to have every minor detail locked away so she can’t come back at you in the future.

But then go to her, tell her you are happy to talk about it, and tell her what you want. If you go to mediation or take your lawyer along, it’s less likely you’ll get a good deal.

And be prepared to negotiate. If you’re stuck on one minor thing (like $5-10k, or Christmas Day kids arrangements)… remember that if you can’t strike and agreement and it goes to lawyers and court, everyone loses. A $10k extra offer at the end (essentially a bribe that looks attractive to a cheat who wants short term cash to spend with affair partner) that gets the deal over the line is a fraction of what it would cost if you can’t agree between yourselves.

Yup, you’re spot on here. I think this is why I struggle the few times we do get in conversations about important things. I end up saying things I don’t want to say, or saying things I don’t remember. W doesn’t forget anything.

You know how you can avoid saying something you regret? Don’t engage! We’ve been saying it for a while. “I haven’t thought about that yet. I’m off to watch a baseball game. We got great seats!” And then walk out the house in new clothes, with great aftershave, with a huge smile on your face.

I think you should do some reading about and practising of mindfulness. The primal fight or flight part of your brain has far too much control over your behaviour atm, as it does with most LBS. Get to work on moving what you say/think/do being controlled by the frontal cortex, the measured, common sense, higher level part of the human brain.

Unless you’re being chased by a bear in the woods, the amygdala driven behaviour/words/fear is generally very destructive.

And book a holiday. So next time she says about going on a holiday as friends you can say “sorry, but I’ve already booked in a road trip with the guys!”

[Traveler]

we did agree on several months ago was that we are going to live here until D18 graduates as if we are separated and we could move on with our lives with other people if we choose. It was a clear boundary that YOU set and we agreed on.

You still have control over my mind and I am going to trauma therapy to fix that and going to join some support groups to help me get through the hell I have been living the majority of my life. I give my love 100% in every relationship I have and you chose to not take it for years, even when I begged for you to go to therapy with me.

She wants a divorce, I don’t as of yet, but I don’t get to control that.

She wants what she wrote above. It sounds like she would prefer divorce now but is negotiable on when divorce happens. What does DW17 want? The ship has sailed on being a happy couple anytime soon and she loves someone else. Q1 - Do you want to D now while she's somewhat motivated, Q2 - Do you want to live with STBXW/D18 until D18 graduates?

Be intentional. If you want to divorce, act now while she's motivated and likely to agree to more. Consult with an attorney about what you would get in court. Draft a proposal. Consider her dream divorce terms. She wants to live together until D18 graduates. She'd prefer a divorce now. Consider a proposal where you offer both and 40% less spousal and 20% less child support than is customary. The alternative is to do nothing and she gets her dream and you get no value from it. I guess as a guy earning at least 50% more than my ex and not paying child or spousal support I got a killing in my divorce relative to the average person here. As in business, offer what matters to them and charge for it.

If you will continue living together for D18's sake, consider IC for you to accept she's moved on for now, and consider MC for co-parenting (not reconciliation). Animosity while living under the same roof is not in the best interests of D18, nor of the D4 you're going to be co-parenting together for the next couple of decades. Do what you can to improve your interactions.

[Mach1]

Today I finally looked over the paperwork. A lot of things are not complete. No financial info, no description of who gets what, she didn’t fill out her portion of the child support worksheet, she checked that she needs spousal support, but did not select whether the court will decide or the dollar amount she is requesting, the parenting plan does not work for me, and several minor mistakes. She hasn’t said it, but I think her plan is for us to sit down and work through it together. I told her I’d respond in 1-2 weeks. I have a few people I’d like to get advice from and I have to speak with the L still, but it seems like she is attempting to get me to do the leg work with this, which I’ve been told not to do. She spent a total of about an hour on it. I spent more time than that today looking into things. I’ve got some time to decide how I want to respond to her, but I wasn’t served these papers, and they aren’t complete. Should I just give her the applicable financial information and let her complete it? Should I just accept the situation and get on with it? She wants a divorce, I don’t as of yet, but I don’t get to control that.

This isn't something that you want is it ??

I would assume that it isn't...

If it isn't, then why are you willing to work toward it ?



Like the others have said, this is a business transaction as of now.... and what will become a series of negotiations.


Not something that you want to do, something that you have to do. So why work so hard for it...



All you have to do is ....


Item 1 - no

Item 2 -yes

Item 3 - yes

Item 4 - no

And so on....


She wants this so bad, let her do the work for it....

That way you aren't trying to control anything, you are just saying what is acceptable for you.


I would also advise you to make 3 lists....

Things that you won't budge on...

Things that you are willing to negotiate a little on...

And things that you are willing to give away....


When in question, you can refer to your list without hesitation during the emotional part of mediations.....

All of your decisions should be made with the rational part of your brain now...



You want to "act" rather than "RE-act"..

[Ready2Change]

“I haven’t thought about that yet. I’m off to watch a baseball game. We got great seats!” And then walk out the house in new clothes, with great aftershave, with a huge smile on your face.

How many times have you done this? It should be at least 12 times by now. Especially the new clothes, with great aftershave, with a huge smile on your face. You should be out shopping for new clothes at least once a week. New style. Dress your age.

[BL42]

What's going on DW? How was your 3-day weekend?

[DW17]

It's been a few days since I posted. I usually post from work but was busy yesterday and didn't go today (D4 is sick). I'll add more when I get a chance, but the weekend was busy and interesting. I went to a movie with D18 and S19, went to a bday party with friends which was a lot of fun, took D4 to a trampoline park, took the doug on a long walk with the girls, ran 7 miles outside to prep for my 10k and overall had a great weekend.

I had a good talk with my sister that helped my mindset moving forward. She said, as you guys have also, that I need to figure out of I want D or not and of I do then proceed with it. If I don't then I need to make sure my actions reflect that (no more mistakes, validating, empathy, and flush OM and what W is up to out of my brain for the time being). She said if I'm not sure yet, then proceed as if I want to stay together so I don't mess up the opportunity. This is all stuff you guys have told me, but hearing it in person from my sister helped. My mindset has been improved I think for the past several days.

W was spinning most of the weekend. She skipped with yesterday due to anxiety. I think she get up with AP Friday night, Sunday and Monday. Friday was her night out/come home the next morning routine, Sunday she went to a beach about 45 minutes away without the kids and Sunday she supposedly went on a hike. I didn't ask anything, didn't react and for some reason didn't really get mad. I just kind of let it go. I slept well all weekend too.

She was as angry as I've seen her a few days ago, but I could tell she was just grasping for something to be mad about. I reacted well to it, even as she said she applied four an apartment and won't be paying bills anymore if she gets it. I just smiled as she walked downstairs. I'll elaborate tomorrow from work tomorrow.

I contacted a L and have a bunch of paperwork to send to him. I'm a little nervous about it. Haven't paid the retainer yet and I probably won't have everything to him until Saturday.

W's cousin who lives a few hours away is picking her up for a bday weekend away from here. It's W's bday Thursday. So I have that kids and house all weekend. I'm assuming W is going out Friday and her cousin picks her up Saturday. Sunday I'm taking D4 and D18 to a family gathering. So another busy week ahead while I still contemplate exactly what I want from this. It's tough. There's a lot to give up if we D and I don't think I'm quote there yet. So I'll try and move forward as if I want to stay together, and I'll adjust if needed.

I hope everyone else had a great weekend, especially any veterans out there.

[DnJ]

Hello DW

I contacted a L and have a bunch of paperwork to send to him. I'm a little nervous about it. Haven't paid the retainer yet and I probably won't have everything to him until Saturday.

Good for you.

This is just gathering information, you don’t need to act on it. And information is power. I suspect your nervousness will abate some once you get more answers.

I had a good talk with my sister that helped my mindset moving forward. She said, as you guys have also, that I need to figure out of I want D or not and of I do then proceed with it. If I don't then I need to make sure my actions reflect that (no more mistakes, validating, empathy, and flush OM and what W is up to out of my brain for the time being). She said if I'm not sure yet, then proceed as if I want to stay together so I don't mess up the opportunity. This is all stuff you guys have told me, but hearing it in person from my sister helped. My mindset has been improved I think for the past several days.

Good.

Remember not taking action, not forcing things, is doing something.

Moving forward is about one’s mindset. And we all require a certain amount of understanding and knowledge before we can/will let go. I’d say you are gaining some good insight and clarity, and talking with your L will surely enhance that. I’d keep on the path, IMHO.

I altered this a bit:

So I'll try and move forward, as if I want to stay together, and I'll adjust if needed.

Do, or do not. There is no try.

Going at something with a try attitude is different than a do attitude. Try, equally allows a succeed or fail outcome. Do, predicts a success outcome; that’s the expected outcome. Yes, we can fail at things we do. However, we “do” things we control, so just dust off and do again.

It’s a little wording change, with huge internal influence. Your mind is always listening. Crafting and creating what you ask it to. Speak/think well.

I didn't ask anything, didn't react and for some reason didn't really get mad. I just kind of let it go. I slept well all weekend too.

There is much peace from indifference. One let’s go, and becomes indifferent. It’s a strange landscape. Other feelings will appear and loom much larger in contrast against the void of emotions that were once so prevalent. Ensure you do not make hasty emotional decisions in this temporary landscape. Indifferent will, and does, unwind. Feelings do return. Thankfully with far less associated pain. (For those who do the inner work.)

The time of indifference is an excellent opportunity to discover one’s core self. With the emotional noise muted, one is free to delve into themselves and find their convictions and beliefs. These tenets are slow to change and make excellent headings for life’s journey and choices. Strengthen values that serve, craft that which you aspire to, and discard or alter those that do not serve.


We all start out standing. We stand for our marriage and our spouse. It’s the default position. Especially when we are so hurt.

Standing really starts once one is healed enough to stand down.

Find your convictions. No hasty choices.

Stand for you.

D

[DW17]

Just re-read my last post, or at least tried to. Sorry for all the typos, I was messaging from my phone.

This is just gathering information, you don’t need to act on it. And information is power. I suspect your nervousness will abate some once you get more answers

My nervousness stems from a few things. In order to get the info I want from the L, I have to pay the retainer fee. This is something I can't really hide from W. I got a separate card to put it on, but I feel like one way or another she'll find out. And we both said we'd try and do this without them. So it feels like something I can't hide if I do it. I don't know. I'm just having reservations about it, especially since I haven't responded to W about the D papers. She will have to be the one to push that issue forward though. She wants to D, I don't at this time, I will not take that guilt off her shoulders by moving it forward.

To elaborate on W's weekend, Friday night I told her that I was going to my aunt's house Sunday for a little get together. W said I could not take D4 because she does not want her around my family, except for my sister. She said D4 will not have people in and out of her life and she needs to be protected. I previously did not understand where W was coming from with this, but I'm pretty sure it stems from her childhood of neglect, bouncing from house to house and not feeling loved. My family has not been around much for the 4 years we've had D4. I did not do a good enough job of maintaining relationships with them, and neither did they. Birthdays, Christmas, and even our adoption day have not always been acknowledged by them for D4. I explained that my relationships with them are something I have struggled with in the past and I understand that I have to confront them about the things that I have concerns with rather than avoiding conflict, especially if it involves my family. W was still upset, and even said she wouldn't sign a parenting plan if it didn't say that D4 couldn't be around them (What? lol). Then Monday night she said after thinking about it, it was okay if I took D4 there as long as I kept her safe. I validated her concerns about my family and their intermittent relationships with us and said I would protect D4 from that.

Since Monday, things have been pretty good. D4 has been sick the past 2 days, so I've been at home with her. I think W taking a mental health day Monday helped her out, as I could tell she was not in a good state of mind. W commented this morning that I've been in a good mood this week and joked that she never knows what mood I will be in each day. I know this is because of my struggle with understanding detachment, not knowing what to ignore, what to respond to, etc. She was correct that one day I'd ignore her and then I'd be friendly. I feel I have a little better understanding right now. I am not responding to calls and only texts about the kids/business stuff. She has tried calling a few times the past few days. At home I do not initiate interaction, but don't completely ignore it either. She asked about getting matching Xmas pajamas soon (a tradition we usually do). We'll see how the rest of the week goes. I'm trying to stay positive and focus on myself and the kids.

The unknown of the D paperwork s@cks. W jokingly mentioned it this morning by saying she hopes that I sign them for her bday. Then she apologized for being mean. Speaking of which, her bday is tomorrow. I'm not sure how to handle that exactly. My bday last month, she stopped by the bar I was at with friends for an awkward 30 minutes or so. That was the entirety of her involvement. No happy bday, no gifts, but the thing that hurt was that she didn't even come upstairs when the kids were doing the cake. I'm not getting a gift, but it feels pretty petty to not even say happy bday. Maybe I'll just leave it at that, and she can figure out whatever she wants regarding cake/kids/etc. D18 has a soccer banquet tomorrow night anyway, but I'm just curious how others have handled these situations.

[DnJ]

My nervousness stems from a few things. In order to get the info I want from the L, I have to pay the retainer fee.

Shop around. Plenty of lawyers offer a free consultation. Or just hire one for an hour and see what your rights are. Have you financial info ready and just go see.

This is something I can't really hide from W. I got a separate card to put it on, but I feel like one way or another she'll find out.

Pay cash. It’s quiet. No paper trail.

I got a separate card to put it on, but I feel like one way or another she'll find out. And we both said we'd try and do this without them. So it feels like something I can't hide if I do it. I don't know. I'm just having reservations about it, especially since I haven't responded to W about the D papers.

The unknown of the D paperwork s@cks. W jokingly mentioned it this morning by saying she hopes that I sign them for her bday. Then she apologized for being mean.

You are worried about her finding out, and she is making light of a pending divorce by hoping you’ll sign as a birthday present. And from the scattered and disorganized settlement she proposed, yes I guess she’d be happy if you signed. (Don’t sign! BTW )

Do your thing and seek legal counsel. Let the chips fall where they do.

I’m pretty sure your L will shake his head at her proposal.

She will have to be the one to push that issue forward though. She wants to D, I don't at this time, I will not take that guilt off her shoulders by moving it forward.

Good. Let her do the heavy lifting. You don’t block anything, and you don’t overly facilitate anything either.

Just gather your information and be ready if/when you need it.

D

[LH19]

W jokingly mentioned it this morning by saying she hopes that I sign them for her bday.

What a %$#*! Some day you will look back and wonder what you were thinking being with this woman. You deserve better! D her and get on with your life.