I definitely understand why she might not believe the changes. She told me at one point that I had become the perfect husband. I didn't know what to say other than to stick around and I'll be "the perfect husband" for the rest of our lives together.
My d13 is a big reason I'm trying so hard to make this work, plus I still love her and truly want to make it work. I hate the thought of my 13-year-old going through what may be to come. It's exactly as you said, I've swallowed a lot of my pride to try and make this work. In the end, if it doesn't, I can at least tell myself and my kids that I did everything I could.
I still bounce back and forth between blaming myself and being super angry for what she did. I don't show my anger, but it's there. That's something I need to work on as well. I've tried the whole forgiveness is for me not her thing, easier said than done.
LH19, I understand what you are saying. That's exactly how it went with us, mostly. I always tried to communicate with her about my needs and things with our relationship that I felt needed work. She on the other hand never communicated. She did exactly as you said and let things build up over the years until she reached the "I need to leave point".
I know it takes time, hopefully she sticks around long enough to see that my changes are real. A big issue for me though is that she hasn't made any changes. Maybe in time she will if she believes what she sees in me is real. She needs counseling, not just for us but for her. I can't control that, and I don't mention it anymore.
I think it is my fault because of the way I reacted. The changes I need to see- a willingness to communicate, at some point to seem sincerely sorry for what she's done and finding a new job would go a long way towards helping me trust her. She has said she's sorry but only when I mentioned that she had never said it. Seemed forced. Maybe it was forced, maybe she just doesn't want to deal with the quilt. I don't know but it's hard to trust someone that can't even apologize.
Been reading along here with the "play at home" version...
First off, welcome to the best, worst place to find yourself in...
Secondly, I agree with most of the stuff the guys have posted to you, taking a stand, doing your thing, making this about you.....
I also want you to understand that YOU have more control over this than you think that you do..
The forgiveness question is a hard one. Most guys say that they draw a line in the sand when the question is posed to them about what they would do if their spouse was to have an affair. Hell, most people in general stand in a crowd with that rhetorical question and answer that they would boot their ass to the curb....
Yet we never quite know what we are capable of until we find ourselves in the thick of it....
I will say though, IF you cannot forgive her, even if you learn of a PA, then you might as well just pull the plug. YOUR forgiveness is your key out of hell....for her, and especially for yourself....
Is she F'ing someone else ? Who knows, nobody except 2 people know that for sure, and you aren't one of them..nor is anyone here...
Does it really matter to you ? Is it a deal breaker for you ??
You need to know that.....
A lot of what I've read seems to be about you trying to "fix" the situation, and to make things better.
Men are fixers, that's what we do. If something is broken, we want to fix it.
I can tell you that no matter how hard you try, you cannot fix this, or her. It won't work that way.
It didn't break overnight, and it won't resolve overnight...the harder that you fight that, the more you are stopping the natural flow of things....
You have 25 years worth of anger and resentment, from BOTH sides of this that are coming into play, and you BOTH are going to have to work through all of that before anything can change. And it's better to be in your own head, rather than hers.....
By the time that most of us found ourselves here, the marriage that you know is dead and gone. Fighting for it is a futile waste of time.
And I am NOT saying that you cannot have a productive, loving marriage again with your current spouse, just that anything in the future will have to be an entirely new relationship with her. And that CAN happen...
However, on the other side of this....
YOU will hopefully be different...
SHE will hopefully be different...
And you will never want to try to drive that square peg into a round hole....
You might want to stop trying to control the situation by changing her or telling her that she is wrong.
You need to understand that her version of the story will vary greatly from your version of events, and you need to accept that you see this relationship in totally different perspectives.
And that, that is okay for now. Your "truths" will not match, and no matter how hard you try...her truth is hers...
You need to ask yourself how long did she carry this marriage on her back ? And now you've suddenly decided that you want to be different, and make changes....
Surely, those changes are only to get your way...right ??
She is fighting for herself, and you are fighting to "get your way".....get used to that being her mindset.
Of course she doesn't believe your changes....
Would you if the tables were turned ???
Did you make them because you are tired of being that person for yourself ? Or only so that she will notice them and come back into the relationship ?
Whatever changes that you make had better be for you and you only. You are the one that has to look at yourself in the mirror at night, and the reflection that you see needs to be real, and honest.
Changing only to get your way is manipulation and control at it finest.
Time and consistent actions are the only thing that may change her mind....
Remember this also....
You are never gonna talk your way out of something that you acted your way into.....
Just be sure of the "whys" of DBing....
Most of the advice has been geared towards leaving her....
So let me ask you this....
Why ARE you DBing ??
WHY are you choosing to stand ???
Is it truly love ??
Is it guilt ??
Is it obligation ??
What do all of those things really mean to you ? Deep down ?
Ask yourself those question. The answers will drive your stand, and your behaviors in the direction that you want to go in.
Find out who you really are when the lights are turned off at the end of the day....
That's the guy that you have to live with, to Parent with, to be a Son for, be a Husband with....
Would you want to be in a relationship with yourself ??
Anywoo......
Keep posting, ask questions.....
Things won't always be this way...that's the only promise I can make you....
Nothing has to happen today, or change today.
Don't ring any bells that can't be un-rung...
Find your peace Mike.....that is your best place to be....
I don't know but it's hard to trust someone that can't even apologize.
I hear you Mike but unfortunately she is not sorry.
The three biggest things she's dealing with right now are fear and uncertainty about the future, guilt for what she's doing to you and your children, and anger and resentment over your role in pushing her to this point.
Everything you do right now is going to make her either more resentful, or less resentful.
If you increase her guilt, by blaming, shaming, or making her responsible for your emotional state, she's going to resent you more.
If you pursue her, argue with her, or try to convince her to work with you on the marriage, she's going to resent you for not letting her go and not giving her the space she wants.
If you immediately address all her historic complaints, she's going to resent the fact that you didn't do it sooner, and things had to get this bad for you to take action.
If you give her space, it’s going to make her less resentful.
If you live your own life, and are happy and joyful for your own sake, it’s going to make her less resentful.
If you are respectful in your communications with her, but not intimate, it’s going to make her less resentful.
*Eventually* she will burn through that big pile of resentment.
*Eventually* she will process her anger at you and it will dissipate.
UNTIL she goes through both of those processes, she will not see you as anything other than she believes you to be based on her prior training.
Mike, I found May's and Steve's threads for you. These are successful reconciliation stories from people who had partners in active affairs, found enough empathy/validation vs. gal/boundaries to reconcile, and forged stronger relationships with their partners within 1-3yrs. Studying those who achieved the same outcome you wish for is wise. Your situation is promising.
I've said in the past I would not forgive a cheater, yet here I am trying too. Maybe I'm lying to myself and if she actually admits to it, I'll be done. I can't honestly say at this point. I'm standing because I do still love her. I really have only tried to fix myself. In the beginning she wasn't sure she wanted to try and luckily, I discovered some resources online that helped me not push her away even more. I honestly made changes because I was already unhappy with myself before this happened, I suppose it gave me the kick in the ass I needed. At first, I did try to make the health/physical changes to try and win her back. I eventually realized that was stupid. I decided to try and be the best me, for my kids and myself. What has been confusing for me is that she came back and said she wanted to fix things. I stop using the things I heard learned from MWD and thought she would/should work with me. I took her at her word when in reality she wasn't being completely honest. I wasted a lot of time doing the wrong things after working hard to do the right things. That is why I've started rereading the books and will start putting the info to use again. My biggest struggle is that she is working with the guy, and I can't stop thinking about them having sex again. I know that is my problem and I need to figure it out, I can't expect anything from her right now. Since she moved back home she made it clear that she has no desire to have sex. I take it as she has no desire for me, she obviously desired him despite her saying otherwise. It messes with my mind. We have had sex fairly regularly though and she has actually instigated it numerous times. I try not to instigate it, but I do ask sometimes. She is usually receptive. Unfortunately for me, at least right now, I still have the same libido I had as a younger man and it's a challenge when your spouse has such low desire. I have also always been the more affectionate partner. I like to hold hands, cuddle on the sofa, etc. I've always been the one to kiss her for no reason throughout the day. I have always wished she was more like that, but it just isn't her.
The thing about me changing is, I wasn't as bad as she made it out to be. A lot of it was her rewriting history. My biggest problem was that I had/have bouts of laziness, especially in the winter. I tend to get depressed and just lay around. I have always done most of the cooking and my share of housework. She has done the majority of the laundry. I always take the kids to dr, dentist, sports practices, etc. I've not been perfect, but I've not useless either. I have never yelled at her, rarely have I even raised my voice to her during all this mess. I used to be a homebody. Once we had our first daughter I lost any desire to go out to bars, etc. She liked to go out more than I did. She complained that I didn't always want to go out with her friends, but she usually didn't want to go out with mine. Plenty of room for improvement for sure and I'm working on it.
I try to give her space. I have frequently suggested she go out with her two best friends. Problem is when she told them about the affair and that she was going to leave me, they told her she was screwing up and that I deserved to be given a chance. She hasn't wanted much to do with them since. I keep in contact with them, we have all been friend since before we were married. It's funny because they love her so much yet they keep telling me I should leave her.
