The only real help you need to make it clear, solid, boundaries and being hard-core about what you want and need. People respond to that. Being an emotional chameleon, "trying" to be detached doesn't work. Set boundaries, set ultimatums. This is hard, but, it helps avoid all the back and forth. Does she want to be married to you or not? Thus far she said she wants a separation or a divorce. Act on that. If you want something else, state it. You can say, "If you want to work on this marriage, fine, if you don't, I have some decisions to make in the next few weeks." Strength and clarity are attractive.
The longer this drags on, the weaker your position becomes. You will compromise, make yourself smaller, meet her needs and then she'll walk all over you. Don't wait for her to act. Time to take control back.
In my experience, unless you are a complete jerk, changing yourself, becoming your "best" self, doing 180's don't really last. Eventually you will revert to who you basically are. I've seen it on these boards before - intense personal change that lasts for 12, 18 or 24 mos and then you slip back. Sorry to say this, but it's inevitable. The divorce gets busted and then, 2 yrs later they are back on the boards and the marriage is toast. Personal change is super hard. If you're wife doesn't like who you are, might as well end it sooner than later. Again, if you're a real jerk and need serious help, get it. If you're just a normal guy, you aren't going to turn into superman. You can't save this marriage alone. Two people need to compromise and work at it. You will hear in the forums that 180's and being solution oriented are really just emergency measures to get their attention. GAL is for your own sanity. The real hard work of repairing a marriage is 50/50 and In the end, she has to want the marriage as much as you do.
I have made positive change and I’m growing. I have been tempted at times to change into Something I’m not out of insecurity and feeling rejected. Like to try and be like what I think she’s looking for and found in OM.
But I know that is the wrong path. I need to be the best version of me for me. And if that’s not good enough for her or any woman in particular then maybe we are not a match. This positive growth is In a real sense helped by being separated from W. I have freedom to live a lifestyle that is healthy in a wholistic sense for me. And that is something I want to continue with or without her.
The only real help you need to make it clear, solid, boundaries and being hard-core about what you want and need. People respond to that. Being an emotional chameleon, "trying" to be detached doesn't work. Set boundaries, set ultimatums. This is hard, but, it helps avoid all the back and forth. Does she want to be married to you or not? Thus far she said she wants a separation or a divorce. Act on that. If you want something else, state it. You can say, "If you want to work on this marriage, fine, if you don't, I have some decisions to make in the next few weeks." Strength and clarity are attractive.
The longer this drags on, the weaker your position becomes. You will compromise, make yourself smaller, meet her needs and then she'll walk all over you. Don't wait for her to act. Time to take control back.
In my experience, unless you are a complete jerk, changing yourself, becoming your "best" self, doing 180's don't really last. Eventually you will revert to who you basically are. I've seen it on these boards before - intense personal change that lasts for 12, 18 or 24 mos and then you slip back. Sorry to say this, but it's inevitable. The divorce gets busted and then, 2 yrs later they are back on the boards and the marriage is toast. Personal change is super hard. If you're wife doesn't like who you are, might as well end it sooner than later. Again, if you're a real jerk and need serious help, get it. If you're just a normal guy, you aren't going to turn into superman. You can't save this marriage alone. Two people need to compromise and work at it. You will hear in the forums that 180's and being solution oriented are really just emergency measures to get their attention. GAL is for your own sanity. The real hard work of repairing a marriage is 50/50 and In the end, she has to want the marriage as much as you do.
^Wise words from LH. I'd re-read this a few times and really ponder it if I were you.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
Definitive clear solid boundaries and being hardcore about what I want and need are what I have not been doing and I am not good at these things up until this point. So these are the real changes I need to make in order to change myself for the better and shift relationship dynamics and thereby potentially leave situations or relationships that don’t fit.
This “relationship” with W doesn’t fit for me as it stands.
“Being an emotional chameleon, "trying" to be detached doesn't work. Set boundaries, set ultimatums. This is hard, but, it helps avoid all the back and forth.”
It is hard but harder to take is the back and forth. W says she doesn’t want to be married in words and all her actions but she says she doesn’t want divorce is scared of it. I’m not scared of divorce anymore or at least not of being single. I’m worried about what will happen to her but I know I’ll be ok and imagining it brings some relief if I’m being honest with myself.
I am very open to us both working together on our marriage but she is not there.
“The longer this drags on, the weaker your position becomes. You will compromise, make yourself smaller, meet her needs and then she'll walk all over you. Don't wait for her to act. Time to take control back.”
This is true. It’s time. I need to take control back.
It is hard but harder to take is the back and forth. W says she doesn’t want to be married in words and all her actions but she says she doesn’t want divorce is scared of it.
Don't be fooled -- you being emotionally invested in her is an insurance policy and nothing else. If things go horribly wrong with her affair partners and outside interests, she can always come back to her comfortable marriage.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I’m worried about what will happen to her
What do you think will happen to her?
Originally Posted by Rockon
I am very open to us both working together on our marriage but she is not there.
This unfortunately if it happens will be waaaaayyyyyy down the line.
In my experience, unless you are a complete jerk, changing yourself, becoming your "best" self, doing 180's don't really last. Eventually you will revert to who you basically are. I've seen it on these boards before - intense personal change that lasts for 12, 18 or 24 mos and then you slip back. Sorry to say this, but it's inevitable. The divorce gets busted and then, 2 yrs later they are back on the boards and the marriage is toast. Personal change is super hard. If you're wife doesn't like who you are, might as well end it sooner than later. Again, if you're a real jerk and need serious help, get it. If you're just a normal guy, you aren't going to turn into superman. You can't save this marriage alone. Two people need to compromise and work at it. You will hear in the forums that 180's and being solution oriented are really just emergency measures to get their attention. GAL is for your own sanity. The real hard work of repairing a marriage is 50/50 and In the end, she has to want the marriage as much as you do.
IMO...That is because the changes are made with the sole intention of just getting their marriage back.
All of that needs to be done with the intent of doing it ONLY for yourself. Because YOU don't like those things about you.
You cannot be authentic, with someone else's playbook.
Real change takes courage in the face of adversity, and you have to be willing to make the changes based on just purely being your authentic self. No lies, No BS...just who you are at your core.
Change only for her or the marriage ?
Yea, better save your password for here.
While I like your list above, they are all things that only becoming your true self can change.
A lot of those guys up there LH, came here and made a half a$$ attempt at DBing just so that they could relieve their guilt over their crappy behavioral patterns.
"Well, I did the DB thing and it didn't work out, so now I can revert back to being a controlling, insensitive, manipulative asshat, and this doesn't work at all"
DBing , done right, can change a person to their core, and realize the potential within...
Regardless the outcome of the marriage...
We all arrived here with a certain set of tools in our toolbox, and we did the best we could with the tools that we had to work with. DBing is about upgrading our tools, so that we don't make the same mistakes again. While you don't need a $500 drill to build a birdhouse, you certainly can't drill through concrete with a screwdriver. Try them all out, and see what works for you...
You have the time, use it to take inventory, and see if you can build for your future.
Ok this is concrete and I think you men can help me and poke holes where I am not hitting the mark.
Earn and gain respect: 1. Be decisive. Don’t ask permission (except of course respect boundaries consent rights etc). Act get it done. Make a plan and do it well. 2. Stop begging or pleading. Don’t offer or accept cheap efforts at intimacy or being second fiddle. 3. Be confident 4. Have some strong friends and be a strong friend. 5. Don’t show off or be childish. 6. Take responsibility and be accountable. 7. Don’t try to nice a woman into liking you. 8. Have goals. Plot a course, prepare well, navigate effectively and invite a woman into that. 9. Respond don’t react. Be emotionally safe. 10. Stand up for yourself. Show people how to treat you.
This is off the top of my head. Please provide input and even examples from your growth if you like.
Maybe this will help more....and this is what worked for me...
1-Am I able to listen to others without judgement 2-Am I honest 3-Do I show kindness 4-Do I show compassion 5-Am I able to lead without being controlling 6-Am I able to inspire others to reach their goals 7-Am I strong while having the ability to be vulnerable 8-Am I able to encourage without manipulating 9-Do I show empathy without being condescending 10-Am I ready to give all of that above, without the expectation of receiving it in return
Bonus track...
11-IF my spouse were to want to work on this marriage today, AM I READY , so that I am NOT right back here in 6 months...
IF you are able to show those things consistently, every day, it becomes a part of who you are, and until you know that, how can you be anything for anyone else ?
Ok this is concrete and I think you men can help me and poke holes where I am not hitting the mark.
Earn and gain respect: 1. Be decisive. Don’t ask permission (except of course respect boundaries consent rights etc). Act get it done. Make a plan and do it well. 2. Stop begging or pleading. Don’t offer or accept cheap efforts at intimacy or being second fiddle. 3. Be confident 4. Have some strong friends and be a strong friend. 5. Don’t show off or be childish. 6. Take responsibility and be accountable. 7. Don’t try to nice a woman into liking you. 8. Have goals. Plot a course, prepare well, navigate effectively and invite a woman into that. 9. Respond don’t react. Be emotionally safe. 10. Stand up for yourself. Show people how to treat you.
This is off the top of my head. Please provide input and even examples from your growth if you like.
You earned my respect by answering a direct question to you. You earned my respect by putting effort into thinking about the question. You earned my respect by listing out 10 items.
So your list is your foundation. One layer of the onion. As you move through this, you can improve your behavior and interactions to align with this.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
This list describes me and who I have worked hard to be in my marriage, life, work, relationships.
I want to be this man.
Points 5 and 7 have been particular points that I have found difficult because I have resorted to control out of fear and am trying to not be that way anymore.
Point 10 is difficult because of pain and rejection.
Bonus point answer is “YES” but I do not yet have any evidence for W’s intention to do this.
