Wolfman moving forward 4

[Wolfman]

LH I think I am doing the best that I can. I think her expectations are unrealistic. As far as the baby thing, i love having a baby. This time I just feel more relaxed with him and really enjoying every second I get with the little man. He just started walking so the real fun has begun.

Traveler I was not aware of the different ways a therapist can treat their patients. I am definitely learning with the therapist we are seeing. So far she seems really good. Let me also clarify something. The therapist telling gf to go to dinner, she was telling gf to go for herself. That she needs breaks in life. It really has nothing to do with siding with me. I even told gf, if she has too much to do, it’s fine we don’t have to go. The therapist really recommended that we go.

BL I do feel like I am doing 110%. One of the issues is she doesn’t believe in putting the baby in the play pen, even if it’s just 15 minutes to get some of her stuff done. When gf works on occasion, I put the little guy in there to clean up dishes and unload dishwasher and straighten up the kitchen a little. But she refuses to do that. She said she feels bad about putting him in there. The play pen teaches the baby independence, how to play, creativity. I just want to be clear, I am not recommending the baby be in there for 30 minutes or more. But 10 minutes her or there is good for him. Yet she won’t. Then complains she has no time to get things done. When I am home she does not come home to a mess, at all.

Maybe you’re misinterpreting her struggles as something you must fix.

You think you need to do more dishes, more feeding, more cleaning, more organising to make her life easier and easier. You keep doing more and more, and she still seems unhappy.

Maybe the problem here is that you are trying to fix. Maybe she is just struggling and wants someone to understand.

Perhaps if you come home and she says there’s too many dishes, or she needs to study, or she doesn’t have enough time, you could just listen.

“That sounds really tough.”
“I can’t imagine how hard it is for you trying to study and be a full time Mum.”
“You must be exhausted.”
“At least I get to go to work out of the house. You must feel trapped here - it’s either studying or being Mum 24/7.”
“Part of you must desperately need a break.”

She wants her struggles to be heard and seen by you, not fixed. The evidence is right in front of you - because you keep doing more, but she’s still no happier.

Don’t use phrases like:
“Well I can do more dishes”
“Why don’t we get a cleaner”
“Perhaps you should defer your study until baby is older”
“If we just do x, then y should be easier”
“Why don’t you…”

Men are amazing because we fix. We are also absolutely terrible, because all we do is try to fix. She just wants to be heard.

She does say things like she feels trapped in the house. Also, at least I get to go to work and socialize with other adults. Just so you know, I do tell her it must be difficult studying and taking care of the baby. I say to her, you must be so tired trying to do both. So I try and do both, understand and help. But it’s not enough. She wants more and more and more. Honestly it’s starting to feel what I experienced in my marriage. My ex kept complaining she needs help. Before we got divorced, I was taking care of all the bills, cleaning, food shopping, picking kids up from school, helping them with their homework, lawn, pool, cars. She just had to keep track of the kids schedules and when I put my foot down finally, and said I need help, can you just keep track of their schedules, it became I don’t care about the kids. This is where I can use some advice. How do I say enough is enough without this turning into a fight? I don’t want to argue but in the same respect I need help. Now I am doing most of the cooking, when gf use to do all of it. I help with everything. I need help financially and a situation came up I would like to share. I create a separate post for what happened yesterday.

[Wolfman]

Here is the situation. The other day in therapy we talked about finances. One of the things we spoke about with the therapist was how my regular salary is not enough. That every month I either dip a little into savings or break even. My money very slowly goes down. My second job, when I close a deal that brings my accounts back up. My second job is not consistent at all. Thank god for it, otherwise we would be in trouble. Anyway, we spoke about that, therapist gave us an assignment about bringing our finances to the table that we both agreed on.
Here is the situation. I have a deal coming up on my second job. My gf knows I have this deal coming up. She asked for me to double the amount of money I give her for the month. She wants it just for one month. Not for anything in particular, just to put into her savings. I was very nice about it, I said we talked about this in therapy, this is what keeps us afloat for the next few months. She said its not fair that I have this job and I can make extra money. That she only has a set amount and she cant make extra money. I said I understand that must be frustrating. I said if any extra bills come up, let me know and I will take care of it. She kept with, her savings is starting to go down (which is funny because she just bought a $200 jacket and the baby $70 jacket) and how does she get to replenish it? I said I understand that this is not easy for you, not being able to buy what you want. The conversation ended with her being annoyed with me. It really bothers me, that she sees me as a paycheck sometimes. I pay all the bills in the house, I pay her cell phone and car insurance. She literally has no expenses. She does work part time and I give her money every month. I feel she needs to do a better job managing her money then. The extra money I made is going to go to those bills the next couple of months, not some vacation, or clothes for me or expensive restaurants. Literally its for the mortgage, utilities, cell phone. Trust me I shop around and bargain with everyone. I have my bills as low as I possibly could. I'm just really bothered by it. Oh let me share this. She gets food stamps too, so food is covered. Then last night, she was at the super market. She asked if there was anything I needed. i said just a box of the protein cookies (that she eats too). She gets home and I forgot how we got on the subject but started to talk about food bills. She said your cookies are expensive $18 and she isn't buying them next time. If I want them for me to buy them myself. That really bothered me. So, very calmly I said is that really nice to say? You asked me if i wanted something, something that you eat too. She then jumped in and said, you know I only get a certain amount on food stamps. I said I understand I was only asking for one thing. Am I not allowed to eat. She said you are but if we use all the money on food stamps then she has to use her money. (Just for here, thats why I give her extra money every month, to spend on whatever). I asked how would you feel if you asked for a certain food and said, use your money? She just stared at me. I said that wouldn't make you feel good. Thats how you made me feel. I said that is how you show someone love? Of course she went back to me not agreeing giving her that extra money, and how its not fair. ugh I explained has there ever been a time when you asked for money for groceries because we went over the stamps and I said no? She said no. I said then whats the problem if I want one extra thing that you eat too? The conversation ended with her mad at me for telling her that what she said didn't make me feel loved. More and more I feel like its about what I can do for her all the time. I am reaching my breaking point. I will bring this up with the therapist, see what she will say to us.

[LH19]

Oh boy you guys sound like an old married couple. Like I said somehow you accumulated 20 years of resentment in 3 years. My guess is that every time you robotically validate her you she wants to punch you in the face.

So Wolf it is obvious you want a "traditional" woman and she is not one. Also, it looks like you never dealt appropriately with your NGS. I think you are going to dig down and decide what you are willing to live with moving forward. After you figure it out an direct honest conversation needs to be had on what your expectations are moving forward. From that you can negotiate terms you can both live with or you terminate the relationship moving forward.

I have to be honest your life sounds terrible that you are doing the majority of the final supporting and house work and are getting no sex and can't even get the cookies you enjoy.

I do not envy you my friend.

[Traveler]

Then last night, she was at the supermarket. She asked if there was anything I needed. i said just a box of the protein cookies (that she eats too). She gets home and I forgot how we got on the subject but started to talk about food bills.

You don't remember who brought it up--okay.

She said your cookies are expensive $18 and she isn't buying them next time. If I want them for me to buy them myself. That really bothered me.

I get her refusing to buy one of your fave foods to cut costs would be frustrating. I love cherry tomatoes and I'd be hurt if that's the first thing my partner cut from our food budget.

So, very calmly I said is that really nice to say?

Wolf, how do I say this? Your communication style is patronizing. You're not her daddy and have no authority to judge the rightness of her behavior, so don't try to "correct" her like a child. Instead of masking your emotions ("That really bothered me--very calmly I said"), try straight up expressing how her behavior made you feel. "I feel hurt that you want to cut out my fave food." This isn't PC-speak, it's a remarkable shift, expressing how her actions make you feel rather than judging the rightness of her actions. Most of us grew up talking like you do, Wolf, so I can relate. It was a journey to learn to lead with, "I feel.." Show some of that hurt, maybe subduing them one level to start e.g. "Really bothered" -> "Bothered".

She then jumped in and said, you know I only get a certain amount on food stamps. I said I understand I was only asking for one thing.

"I understand.. (but).. only.." It sounds like you do not understand and you showed that by minimizing her concerns. If you don't understand, ask curious questions to clarify. "Thanks for making room for them today. It means alot to me! I get our food budget is tight. Is there something else we can trim to fit this in as a regular thing? Those cookies are overpriced but so good, a guilty pleasure after my double shifts and you seem to like them, too."

I asked how would you feel if you asked for a certain food and said, use your money? She just stared at me. I said that wouldn't make you feel good.

You conclude your lesson by telling her how she feels / would feel.

Thats how you made me feel.

Finally! Lead with that next time. Although, maybe "I feel X when you do Y" instead of "You make me feel X"--taking back some control over your own emotional state.

I said that is how you show someone love?

The lesson wasn't done yet.

---

I know I side-stepped your difference of opinion--whether your budget has enough money to afford protein cookies. That's the easy part--it costs $18 to solve. The cost of this exchange on your feelings and her feeling was higher. Maybe a therapy session or dinner out! I hope you can begin IC on your right-fighting soon. It pervades so much of your life, Wolf. It's a shame because you are also a guy who cares and is trying really hard to make things work. I bet she sees that side of you too, and it's partly why she hasn't run off and demanded her share of alimony/child support. Keep working at it!

[Dawn70]

I agree with T that your communication style comes across as patronizing, Wolf, and I’m a complete stranger reading about it in your own version of the story, not experiencing it in real life, which tells me that it is likely even more patronizing in person. So, how do you fix that? STOP telling her how she feels or how something is supposed to make her feel. You should absolutely tell her how things she says and does make you feel but that’s as far as you should go. Don’t follow that up by telling her how that same thing would make her feel. I also agree with LH that your stilted validation probably just makes it worse. I’d want to punch you if you kept telling me how I was supposed to feel about something.

I still think you don’t listen enough. You are listening to reply instead of listening to understand and then give a thoughtful and helpful reply. In fact, I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if the running dialogue in your head was telling you “if she says this, I’m going to say that” the whole time she’s talking so you are planning your rebuttal instead of really trying to understand.

LH said y’all sound like an old married couple. I thought you sounded more like children. I know you’ve said before she is younger than you but it sounds like you both communicate on a much younger level than your actual ages.

I feel bad for both of you, Wolf. Yeah, you seem to be doing the lion’s share here. Hopefully the therapist can help you work through some things.

[LH19]

Oh yeah and on a side note it’s nice to know my American tax dollars can be spent on food stamps for a family that can afford surprise trips to S. America. Thanks Joe Biden!

[Ginger1]

Oh yeah and on a side note it’s nice to know my American tax dollars can be spent on food stamps for a family that can afford surprise trips to S. America. Thanks Joe Biden!

1) I’m pretty sure food stamps have been around WAY before joe Biden

2) they aren’t married and she is minimally employed. She likely has Medicaid too .

Now if they were married, she wouldn’t be getting food stamps.

If they split tomorrow, she would certainly need those food stamps.

Also, anyone buying protein cookies for $18 and vacationing in South America is not exactly hard up. And a jacket for an adult at $200 and one for a baby that will grow out of it in 5 min for $70 on food stamps is a little aggravating. I make over 6 figures and I buy my coats from Costco because that isn’t in my budget.

Aside from that, definitely sounds like you are trying to “teach” your “child” something.

[DonH]

Oh yeah and on a side note it’s nice to know my American tax dollars can be spent on food stamps for a family that can afford surprise trips to S. America. Thanks Joe Biden!

OMG I was thinking pretty much the exact same thing! To be honest though I’m pretty sure you, I and many others here have been supplementing these poor money management decisions for longer than Brandon has been in the Oval Office. It’s certainly gotten worse with all the free money, Covid stimulus, college tuition forgiveness and the rest, but it’s been out of control for too long. Even Clinton wanted work not welfare.

Also, anyone buying protein cookies for $18 and vacationing in South America is not exactly hard up. And a jacket for an adult at $200 and one for a baby that will grow out of it in 5 min for $70 on food stamps is a little aggravating.

I’m fine with giving a TEMPORARY hand to those truly in need - but as Ginger points out, when the “need” is $200 toddler coats, vacations and even $18 snacks….

[Dawn70]

I don’t usually get into politics online because I’m not going to change anyone’s mind nor are they going to change mine, but the whole welfare system is not solely on Biden’s shoulders. This problem has been going on for YEARS. He didn’t create it.

Having said all that, as G pointed out, likely Wolf’s income doesn’t figure into the mix so it is only his gf’s minimal part-time income that is the basis of the food stamps. But yeah, like G said, my husband and I earn a lower middle class income in a cheap southern state and I can’t go buy a fancy expensive jacket. I’ve been wearing the same coat for 4 years now and it is one I bought on sale from Walmart online and paid less than $10 for. My husband wears his dad’s old hand me down Carhartt coat. So, I can’t help but be frustrated that someone pays $70 for a toddler coat while being supported by her partner and my tax dollars.

[Traveler]

Any updates?