Boundaries & My At Home MLC’er

[DnJ]

Hello T

Maybe it’s because it’s summer but it appears the forum is not as active as it used to be, based only on reading old posts that seemed to get a lot of responses. I hope everyone is ok.

Posts and responses do wax and wane. Yes, summer has folks otherwise occupied too, and there is a seemingly decreasing trend in active around here as well. Of course, this currents “trend” is kind of short and may just be more of a blip. Folks do feel otherwise, however, feelings a fact do not make.

Also, the MLC side of the board is a bit slower and laid back. MLC is a slow process and speedy actions and responses are seldom “needed” when dealing with the crisis person; just give ‘em a couple hours and they change their mind.

As for the LBS, yes we/I do read those I follow pretty much daily. And mostly respond in a timely manner. Current wedding did keep from here. My what a busy week!

It’s now been a week since H asked for the £4,000 and I stated in order for me to help him I need something important to me, to be added to the family bank account. H Monstered and left the room, saying he’s moving out the end of the month. (To be noted I never told him No. I asked for something I needed from him. As H is not speaking to me I don’t know if he perceived I said No or if it really is all about the bank account. That’s what I believe it to be based on how he grabbed his phone off me when I was scrolling in the account. But I don’t know for certain. If it is discussed again, if H brings it up for discussion, I will make sure to tell him I never said No.)

I would not bother ensuring you let him know you didn’t say no. H will believe and project upon you as he is going to, regardless of what you tell him or not.

Do stick with your boundary. However, focus upon the being added to the account and not on his need of 4000 bucks. Your boundary is about not having access to the family accounts. Something like:

While I am prevented from accessing the family accounts I cannot and will not decide upon financially helping you. I require the family fiscal information before I would lend or invest my money.

H is ignoring me. Not speaking to me. Not communicating. No dinner. No more pretend marriage. I am being punished for not giving him the money and for pointing out the elephant in the room, which is what is going on with our family money that you cannot pay your taxes?

Yep, H is giving you the silent treatment. Just like a petty teenager. All sullen and moody.

I take it you & others here have lived this way? For how long? Weeks? Months? YEARS? Please anyone that’s had to do this please post. I need your advice, support!

Nope. I did not have to live that way. No live in spouse. It was bomb drop, the. three hours later she was gone and living with OM. Complete shock to me, kids, parents, friends, her childcare customers, and so on.

That being said, I have an excellent viewpoint and understanding of what the LBS needed to, or perhaps should, do and goes through to get to the other side and heal from such destruction. My situation and wreckage was just incredibly fast is all. I have plenty of advice and suggestions, and you have my attention and support!

I don’t know if I’m ignoring him, being friendly if we cross paths? I take it I’m not to do anything at all for him.

The rules are not carved in stone. Look at it like this: Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.

You can attempt anything. If you get positive results, keep doing it. If you attempt something and it backfires, blows up, or whatever negative result, then leave that for a while. I’m not saying H will not come around to it, however for a good while he will not.

A solutions journal is suggested from MWD in her books as one tool for finding what is actually a positive or negative response - before you attempt things. A tool for helping to interpret those small steps being in the correct direction and therefore worthy of repetitive behaviour on our part, or in a less helpful direction and an indicator for one to temporarily cease certain behaviours. (Caveat, MLC is a different animal and the LBS’ behaviours have a much smaller affect.)

Like the 4000 dollars. You asked H to add you to the account and then you’d help him. And it didn’t work. Negotiating with a MLCer is not like dealing with other folks. Logic and reason and such are not what they are interested in. You will have little success swaying a person in an emotional crisis with sound logical reasoned arguments and explanations. In fact, both of those - arguments and explanations, - they do not want to hear. They have their fantasy view of their world and will expend incredible energies to maintain it.

Successful negotiating with a MLCer requires finesse. One cannot come at it head on; a sideways approach works better. Realize fighting begets fighting. It’s about finding what a MLCer truly wants when they really don’t know themselves. Also, a MLCer has a default to be argumentative and go counter to whatever is suggested. So, let them suggest the resolution; and if it is reasonable you kind of begrudgingly accept it. Remember, everything for them is emotional. They have to feel they are getting whatever it is they feel that want. Logic and reason have little to nothing to do with it.

Ignoring him, being friendly, etc. Yes, all the advice and “rules” will at first appear counterintuitive. Realize, as I stated before, everything suggested is first and foremost for you. You are the most important person in your situation.

Going dark, or no contact, or dim, etc are all strategies for your mental and emotional health. They are not to force or affect or manipulate the MLCer to see reason or wake up or some such. Do not seek or attempt to manipulate H’s journey. You do not want that responsibility or consequences upon you.

Now, as a bonus, the hard earned advice you receive does more than support and steer you towards you own whole and healed future; it provides your best chance at a reconciliation. To be clear dear friend, a chance, not a guarantee. The guarantee is that you will become healed and happy, since you control you and that is completely within your wheelhouse; a restored R is a bonus. No need to loose faith or hope either, the rarity of reconciliation/marriage 2.0 has plenty of factors playing into that.

I think it’s ok I asked him about golf. Maybe make a statement instead of question next time. That way he’s not required to respond, no pressure. “I hope golf went well for you today.”

Yep. Much like you would a moody teenager. H, a sullen teen, doesn’t want to respond to you. Or anyone. Lol. It pretty strange ain’t it?

Practicality:
Am I actually ignoring him? Or am I being kind when I come in to contact with him? I ask because I’ve been advised to do both. This questions may seem silly but this just isn’t how we do here. Or did! This is foreign. I don’t know how to be this other person. I used to just BE with my husband.

These questions are not silly! I am glad you ask. Do share what you are struggling with or what you would like help or further information about.

Be kind. Be compassionate. Be better, not bitter.

Detach.

Become.

Be you.

By the way, I get it. It takes a while for one to find their center, to define themselves.

He feared losing me. But then he found out that I knew and I didn’t leave him so my importance and esteem in his eyes decreased. I was willing to stay with him as he continued contact with his Limerence Object, his other woman who doesn’t care about him. He works with her, she’s on his team.

Yep. If the spouse knows you are on the shelf waiting, there is little reason or need for them to change course. And, that being said, the only person who’s course you can truly alter is your’s.

If I am standing for my marriage what choice did I have but to accept there isn’t anything I can do about his relationship with LO/OW? Now H doesn’t care about me. Everything is backwards now. I hate it so much. I do realise it’s MLC H I am dealing with. That’s who is hurting me.

You have plenty of choice!

You have wisely realized you cannot do anything directly to alter H and OW’s relationship. You focus on you, Gal, dress well, eat properly, remain active and fit, and so on. All for you! You stand for you!

An interesting lesson I learnt: Feelings are fleeting.

All emotions come from within. All of them! Yes, external forces and people can and do provide external stimulus and triggers, and other times those stimuli and triggers come from internally. Yet, the actual emotion and feeling always is crafted from within. So regarding our pain and hurt - we hurt ourselves. That viewpoint is most freeing and detaching.

H is not hurting you. You are hurting you.

Bare with me here.

H is not that powerful. He cannot control your emotions. True, his actions and words can trigger an emotional response within you. However, you are reinforcing that feeling; otherwise it would flit and extinguish.

We all reinforce our emotions. Happy, in love, joyful, etc, are great examples of one keeping their feelings alive. Plenty of time our emotions are self enforcing, we create feedback loops. This feedback is wonderful for positive emotions; and not so wonderful for those negative feelings. Breaking that feedback is what finding detachment is about.

Bank account:
When you say get access to all the marital assets. I don’t know how one does that. I can’t just go down to the bank by myself to ask to be added. H won’t add me. He doesn’t want his secrets exposed. The money he’s spent on OW, her family. I don’t think a court has the power to add me to a bank account. Once I get lawyers involved to do financial discoveries, disclose what’s happened to that bank account, H will retaliate. May start D proceedings. He won’t see me protecting myself. He’ll see me exposing him. He’s not being logical, like you said, it’s all emotional now. This is one of my fears, as you said, H knows my fears. I will go see a family law attorney week of 22nd. I need to know where I legally stand.

Good for you. Yes, talk to a lawyer and find out where you legally stand. If you can prove that those monies are martial assets, than a court would most likely grant you access. Of course your locale will have its own interpretation of your laws and situation.

If legally you do not have a right, or even if you do and could court force access, negotiating is an option. Seeking to discover what it is H wants, is fearful of, the “why” he is blocking things. Like I said, that takes some finesse.

I read about your W taking things from your home to the OM house. When was this in your story? Did you live with her, living as married or roommates for awhile before this happened? How did you react? Both in the moment and internally.

I’ve openly shared my entire story. It is closing in on thirty threads though, so it is quite a read.

J, my XW, although I mostly do not think of her as my ex wife or call her that (except for clarity here) since she is not mine. Using “my XW” inspires and reinforces attachment-like thoughts and tendencies, which inspire and craft similar feelings. Attachment vs detachment idea.

Also, J is a person. She is her own self. She’s not “my” anything. And if she were to ever come back towards my life, I want it to be because she wants to. And likewise for me.

One of the questions I pondered during my commutes is when does someone cease being your ex and just starts being them.

Anyhow, J started taking things over to OM’s house the day after BD. Her “shopping” lasted a few days. During that time, the kids were straight-armed blocked from hugs with her. J literally stepped over crying kids laying/sitting on the floor in her path. An astounding behaviour to witness from one who was such a loving Mom and who had just prepared Thanksgiving Day supper and played so many family games mere hours previously.

J and I never lived as roommates. We were married, in my and everyone else’s view, until her announcement and exodus during T-Day supper in front of kids and parents and me.

My initial reaction was utter shock and disbelief. After around a day or so into this, my world collapsed. The destruction and wreckage was horrendous. It was unbelievable!

That statement - unbelievable - was completely accurate, and not serving of me. One’s mind is always listening, and what one says, their mind will make reality. For reality only exists in the mind.

So, me seeing and speaking of how my situation is unbelievable kept it so. I purposefully, consciously, and consistently utilized “I was dumbfounded” rather than unbelievable. Dumbfounded is the correct word.

I had to detach, go through withdrawal, plenty of pain, and learn and grow. Like I said earlier about pain and hurt: I hurt me more than J did. Yes, what she did was incredible hurtful, yet I kept that pain alive. I also gave myself a break, a lot was heaped upon me in short order. Lol.

I pretty much never was angry. I experienced all stages of grief, though anger was brief and mild. Depression was the longest stage for me. Well, except for acceptance, though that is the last stage and where one lives, so for timeline and duration I’m only speaking to the four - denial, anger, bargaining, and depression.

Depression was pretty dark and encompassing for around a year. The depression then slowly faded away over the next year or so. In total around two years of depression. Although, one does not only experience one stage at a time.

As one heals and moves towards acceptance, more and more things move out of denial and reveal themselves. One then starts to process their feelings regarding that new item; grieving and finding acceptance of that item. Eventually one’s situation - the accumulation of individual items - is grieved and accepted.

To be clear, even years later, something may, or most likely will, come up and one will grieve it. Perfectly normal and healthy. And far quicker from having such a plethora of “things” previously accepted. My new stirrings from my son’s wedding were among such. Not debilitating, not derailing, not even all that painful, more a melancholy longing for what once was. Rather easily let go of and accepted. There was a bit of anger, a bit of emotional bargaining (lol, still such a strange thing), and not much (or any) depression. Living though what I did, getting to where I am, letting go my fear, there ain’t much that’s going to drag me down to those depths again.

I am struggling. Sad. Hurt. I have been regretting sending H that WhatsApp message. I went against my own rule to always sleep on emotionally driven texts, emails, phone calls before sending. I should not have brought up the past. His wounded ego can’t stand the reminders of what he’s done. Yes, everything I said was true but was it necessary to say?

It is a good idea to wait 24 to 48 (or more) hours before responding. Reacting emotionally oftentimes brings regrets. Even truthful statements may be better left unsaid, or said more eloquently and kinder.

I should have just said We both know adding me to the bank account is the right and sensible thing to do. I’ve gone back & forth at whether to apologise or not.

Let sleeping dogs lay. No need to apologizing for this.

And when you apology for things, clearly apology for what you are apologizing for. In this case, I think you are not sorry about the truth; you are sorry for hurting his feelings. A good validating and sincere statement is “I’m sorry you feel that way”. Validates the others feelings, and expresses you being sorry for how they feel. Recall, you are not all powerful and do not make anyone feel any which way or another. You only trigger and influence, and therefore it is quite a good thing to acknowledge their feelings and not take responsibility for them. Of course, continue to be responsible for things you do and say and the fallout and benefit from such.

These are my thoughts in my current mindset. … I am struggling to detach. Some days I’m better than others. I struggle to just live my life. I am working on a long application, not enjoying it. But it’s necessary for my future. I’ve not done much rise for myself besides reading, see bottom of post. This week has been bad emotionally. It’s not lost on me how normal my response would be if MLC we’re not involved. If we were a couple going through normal marital issues and I said to a therapist I am upset that my husband is ignoring me. I’m having trouble sleeping. I’m very sad. I’m worried. The therapist would say those are all normal responses. They wouldn’t say Why aren’t you detaching? I’m married. To have emotional responses to your spouses behaviour is normal. I’m not a freak. I’m just doing myself a disservice as I might be married but H doesn’t act like he is anymore. I know detaching is in my best interests. To preserve my emotional & physical health.

Having emotions and emotional responses is normal, married or not. Detachment is being able to experience those emotions without being dragged around by them.

Detachment and indifference often get mixed together. Personally, I like to keep them separate, for they are.

Detachment stops one from being uncontrollably dragged about by their emotions due to a trigger, event, or person. Uncontrollably. That’s the detachment part. Giving one control/influence over their emotions again. It’s regaining ownership over duration, strength, and somewhat what is triggered and felt.

Indifference is the muting or absence of emotions regarding a person, event, or trigger. This is a normal emotional stage. It does “feel” weird, truth be told. One is not used to not feeling things regarding their spouse. A caution regarding indifference is that it like all emotions (in this case lack thereof) is temporary/fleeting; feelings do return. Nature abhors a vacuum. During indifference, one’s other feelings will loom larger than they really are against the backdrop of the void of indifference. Stay the course and do not make rash leaps.

This quiet time when the antics and noise of our MLCer is basically nil, is a great time for our inner work. Finding those convictions and such. Becoming who we want to, and are meant to, be.

My H has been MLC since 2015. That’s when he told me he started to feel bad. (His words) I see the decline in him from the very event he reports was the tipping point. This essentially means I lived with H being MLC for 6 1/2 years, 3yrs Limerence before I knew. Life was easier then but he wasn’t himself. How much longer would his crisis been if we’d carried on that way? H had done secretive things along the way that I’d missed. Lies about going to work when he was taking OW and her extended family to a safari park, etc. Earlier this year finally taking the big leap of flying 5,000 miles to see OW to convince her to care for him (didn’t work, she blanked him), lying to me telling me he is going to to that country to work. His lies we’re found out and now we are on a different trajectory, a different path. This path is not as pretty as the other path. That path was fake but I didn’t know it. This path is reality and it is not fun! It’s fraught with uncertainty, pain, disillusionment, fear.

(((Hugs)))

Yes, the real path is not a lot of fun. Getting through the bog and mire to the other side is such a slog. Yet, we do make it. The uncertainty, pain, disillusionment, and fear all understood and accepted along the way. We emerge from our crucible a true gemstone!

Fear:
I am fearful that if H leaves he will never return to our home, our marriage. I am fearful if H does not leave he will stay stuck in his crisis. I am fearful I will find out things H has done financially that will devastate me.

Something you might find helpful:

Fear

Also this: I’m not going to pretend anything. Detaching when your spouse lives at home is hard. Reading through hundreds of posts here I saw this exact wording typed out - Detaching when your MLC spouse lives at home is very difficult - was posted SO many times by seasoned frequent posters here that have replied to my thread so I am justifiably backed up that this sh*t is hard! I’m working on detaching, letting go. I’m going to guess that the response I’m going to get to my question as to how H would likely react, feel of me being away will be ‘You need to not care how he reacts.’

It certainly is difficult. No doubts there.

It’s ok to care about his response or reaction. That shows your character. Who you are. Your grace and light. Live in the light!

However, detach and not be dragged by how H reacts is all. Stand for you. Live for you. Become you.

I text him & he’s like “Meh, whatever.” That’s the “ok” response - The MLC Script response: ‘Its all my wife’s fault that I am unhappy’ response. Or I don’t tell him at all and he still doesn’t care or he does and he wonders about me. Or he’s even more angry at me that I didn’t tell him. (Again I’m sure people will say Don’t even care what your H response is. Or isn’t!)

Not to be too nit picky, however it’s the details where the truth lay.

Your first part had predestined responses from posters as promoting “need not to care how he reacts”. Which is not true. That is about your response, and of course you care about your views.

The second part had you being sure we’d all again say “don’t even care what your H response is”. That is not the same as the first one. This is H’s response, not yours.

You definitely care about your response, and let go his.

I like clarity, as it is an excellent tool and strategy for detachment and many other parts of this journey. This last bit was a bit muddled is all, and hopefully some clarity helps sort out things and your feelings around it.

Do we not want our MLC spouse to wonder, worry? H did that before. Wonder. Worry. My D & SIL reported H would sit in the lounge in complete darkness waiting for me to come home at night. Racing around the house looking for me. Desperate. Wanting to make me dinner. This was April, May, June of this year. He’s cycled hard repeatedly since. He’s now displaying a different person. A much less worried and less interested in me persona. MLC 🙄

Yes, we would like to have our MLCer wonder and worry and such. However, that is not our goal. Not the path of the LBS. We cannot fix our MLCer spouse, because we didn’t break them. So, we leave them to God and His wise hands and His wise timeline. Our intentions, as well meaning they are, usually prolong things for the person in turmoil.

I’ve never had a roommate before. Do you tell your roommate if you are going to be gone the weekend? I know you tell your husband what you are doing.

What I want to present to H is a strong Theia right? I am moving forward. Putting me first. So is that conveyed through sending a text to say I’m away this weekend. Be back Monday. Or is it saying nothing at all?

From my view, you are healed enough and sending a text would not send you spinning. Therefore you do not require no contact for your sanity. So, be a respectful roommate and let him know your plans. Not down the last detail by any stretch, just a general where and when you’ll be. Enough that say he could find you if there was some emergency or such.

I am glad to see you got away for a bit of a trip. Good for you.

Sunday night I had a weird mental breakdown or break through, not sure what it was, but the floor came out of my world & I fell. I seriously wished I could just cease to exist. I missed my parents desperately and wanted to be where they are because I know it’s peace & love where they are. No more struggling. No more pain. No more rejection. No more trauma. Just love. A caring friend talked to me by PM. I eventually fell asleep. Monday when I woke I was still angry but was less emotional. I showered, put on my makeup & styled by hair, put on my cute holiday outfit, some lipstick & perfume. Then made sure I had everything & went down to breakfast. Each day the own/hosts chatted with me during breakfast. Lovely couple. I’d stay there again. Then we said our goodbyes and I set off, taking the costal route to the motorway, stopping for a bit at my favourite lookout by the sea where I talked to myself & God. I asked for help. To heal. To let H go. To be strong. To Go Dim, to not Pursue my H. To instinctively know what to do & say in every situation. To put myself first. To find Joy. And for my H to work through his MLC.

Yes, those breakthroughs are certainly interesting now when looking back. You explained it very well, the floor came out of my world. And yes, one falls. Then one gets up, dusts off, and moves forward again. Wiser and better. And that stronger and more healed, like you are praying to find.

God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is no. Sometimes we think it is no. Oftentimes, we just misread the blessing we get. To become strong and healed, one has to persevere and overcome. God always provides what we need, even when we don’t want or see it that way. And He never gives more than one can handle.

Also happening in my head and heart was a sense of I don’t care any more. Whatever he does he does. I have no control. I never did. I never will. He’s got to figure this out himself or be doomed to feeling as miserable as he does now until he dies. I felt both nothing and everything at once. Sadness and hope. It felt like a step forward.

A step towards indifference. And a few prayer answered, if I may be so bold.

I’m doing my best to piece this together. To prioritise me. If anyone has lived through similar please do post. This girl can use your experience & support.

Continue as you are. Keeping putting you back together, strengthening those parts you love and aspire to, and discarding those that do not serve you.

I have lived through similar. Very well I believe.

Live in the light and let God. For nothing you do will affect H, and yet everything you do will.

D