Running out of steam!

[COG]

Alright, now I need some input. I just had a conversation with W that is concerning to me. While we have been enjoying our relatively new found freindship over the past few months, physical intimacy still eludes us. She loves our friendship and enjoys our fun times together but becomes very uncomfortable with anything beyond friendship.

I explained that I was growing tired of waiting for her feelings to change (3 years now). She has so many interests other than our marriage. Between kids, her workouts, friends, and other functions, she goes non-stop. She has the busiest life of anyone I have ever seen and our marriage gets low billing. I am just stuffed into one of her compartments.

I kept my tone honest, and friendly. We started to discuss D. I admitted that I am running out of steam. That my feelings for her were diminishing because they were not being nurtured or appreciated. After some time she said that she is ready to D but has just been too afraid to admit it. Also she reminded me that she had told me that on two other occasions in the past year. She also said that she just does'nt have the energy or desire to go further with the R. Then a few moments later she tells me that we have such a great friendship that we could build on. That she loves and cares about me. That D is so final it's hard to go there. She starts thinking about how difficult life will be with us and the kids(4). But she's growing tired of limbo too.

As far as I know she still does not have an OM. I believe she does'nt, but she has many close male friends. I am getting very tired of always being there for her, when her heart is not in it. It's getting very old to just wait and hope that her feelings change. I'm ready for action. I suggested that we try romance for a time period and if it does'nt work then we will have tried everything and should give up without guilt. She is going to think about it but I am reasonably sure her answer will be, "I just can't go there right now".

I met a nice young lady over the weekend and realize how exciting a new affair would be. I am also realistic about how complicated my life could become when I go down that road. Would her kids and my kids get along? Would she turn out to be a nightmare? If I start another relationship, would my W all off a sudden find her feelings? This really sucks! Our life would be so easy if W would just not be so [censored] selfish.

Is divorce as scary as I think it is? Should I give up? Should I press my W to "fake it until she makes it"? Which one of us is more stupid? Sometimes I feel like such a sucker. I am tired of limbo!

venting,

COG

[Tim2point0]

COG, aside from talking and being friendly, what have you and your W tried? Have you been in counselling? What books have you read? What books has SHE read? What did you do to implement what you read, and what was the result? Have the two of you just been trying to "muddle through" on your own, or have you sought help, and what kind?

I guess I'm wondering what kinds of "steam" have been applied so far?

[COG]

Tim,

Thanks for your response. I've read a stack of books, Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough", Smalley's "Save Your Marriage Before It's Too Late", Michele's "Divorce Remedy", "The Purpose Driven Life", The Bible to name a few. My W has read a book on dealing with kids during divorce, and one on spiritual matters. She has done a four week bible study. She's not much on studying and researching. I have gone on several Christian mens retreat weekends, and gone through the 13 week "Divorce Care" support group program.

We have gone through the Retrouvaille program for marriage reconciliation. We did counseling together for a short time, and individually (same counselor) for almost three years. We both burned out on counseling about six months ago.

We have been separated for two years, four kids ages 6-11. We have tried dating but she is not comfortable with anything beyond friendship.

We go on vacations, weekend trips, etc. together as a family and have very fun times, but we have not gone on a weekend alone together for over three years. I have asked many times but she has not accepted.

Last year we went to Disney World as a family. At the request of our counselor we got adjoining rooms, kids in one, us in the other. We slept together and cuddled four nights. We were sexual one night. She seemed comfortable with it until we got home and she said the sex was great but it was uncomfortable for her because the feelings were'nt there. She has'nt wanted to try anything except just waiting for her feelings to change since then. She has lots of enthusiasm for kids, friends, her house, strangers, just about anything but the M.

Started DBing about two months ago. I have done 180's on calling her, telling her ILY, crying, begging and bringing up the R. It helped our friendship immensely. We are both very busy and tired right now. For 4 years now I have been ready and willing to do whatever it takes to make our M work. I was not the perfect H but I was willing to take stock and change from the moment she told me she was'nt happy. It seems like it was too little to late. Once her love died it was dead for good. No matter what I've done her feelings just don't seem to come.

She does'nt beleive the "love is a decision" theory. She wants the feelings to be there first, before she moves forward. No matter how many studies have been done she just will not beleive it. She claims she has tried it and it has'nt worked. Oh, did I mention that she is very stubborn and will defend her position to the bitter end. I already know how to handle that. I just agree with most of her observations about how uncomfortable and feelingless our M was and is. The more I agree, the less she defends her position. This from a person who regularly praised me as being the greatest husband. She used to be so thankful that she had me to share life with. She had me on a pedistal.

Our friendship has improved dramatically, especially during the past few months since DBing. She is comfortable allowing me to touch her gently, kiss her cheek, and hugs are great. That is a great improvement over two years ago. I am happy we have made such progress but I am tired of being so low on her list of priorities. I have asked and asked to be given higher billing but she just can't seem to come through. There are too many other things in her life that are more important.

I am normally very positive and upbeat but today I feel very run down by all this. I can't seem to get through to her. Unfortunately it will probably take a D, and further chaos for her to realize the opportunity she is passing up.

This really sucks! I am a decent Christian, involved father, successful businessman, healthy body, outgoing, fun loving, responsible guy. This has been a nightmare but I have grown and matured through it all. I am a much better human being for it. I have learned to be supportive, humble, patient, and serving. I want to hold on, but I am tired of rejection. I want a D but I don't look forward to that life either. My kids are doing great but they feel torn and don't want us to D. We've been separated for a long time but they still hope we will be back together. Last week I felt like I could hang on a long time, today I am tired and doubtful. Help! I've fallen and I can't get up.

More Venting,

COG

[Tim2point0]

Wow, I'm sorry, COG, but I have no idea what to say. I do think it is far more difficult dealing with these issues while separated, so my heart goes out to you. I think you already realize that ultimately you and your W will each have to make your own choices, and that you cannot have much influence over the choices your W has made or will make. It looks to me like you have done a lot of really positive things, some of which have had some good effects, but it's hard to judge whether it's all been enough to save your M. Only you can answer that, and I think the answer is already within you. You just have to look deeply and listen closely to yourself to discover it. It's not likely to be an easy answer, unfortunately. Sorry I can't offer much in the way of input, but I have no experience with your type of sitch at all. I can say, however, that whatever happens, you are a survivor, and you will use it as a growth experience, and you will ultimately triumph...

[COG]

Tim,

Thanks for your reply. Our breakup just seems such a waste. There was a time when marriages stayed together unless one of the spouses was really terrible. Our current society is centered on selfish consumption. We all want to be served, and don't care to sacrifice. We have it way too good. Unfortunately, there is less and less perceived need for marriage. What good is marriage when you can easily change bedfellows and families like changing your underwear? I'm still hoping for the best, hanging in there, but I am becoming more and more synical.

Thanks,

COG

[SuitedUp]

Hi COG,

I can see why you are contemplating getting out. You have been very patient and doing many good things.

The only thing I am struggling to pick up in your posts is where you are trying to emotionally connect with your W. The everyday romancing and flirting which is integrated in everyday initmate life between H & W. Not the "one off" occassions that make one big impression but are quickly forgotten because seldomly are they ever followed up, but the little things that happen day to day.

I don't know if you are familiar with the Love Bank concept and the 10 emotional needs so I'll post the link anyways.

Also, in Venus and Mars book, there is a 101 tips on scoring points with the opposite sex. I found alot of value in these on a daily and ongoing basis.

If you haven't heard about these before, perhaps they are few stones that you to turn over and see if anything underneath moves.

Suit

[COG]

Suit,

Thanks for your response. I will check out the ten emotional needs. We have a wonderful freindship right now. We both realize and appreciate how special it is. We have great conversations, enjoy kids sports and activities together, and easily pay compliments to each other. While our R is not where I want it to be, we continue making baby steps. I'm going to hang in there a little longer!

COG

[SuitedUp]

COG,

It's great to hear all those positives. It takes DBing a little while to kick in properly and I can see that you are off to a great start.

As far as giving compliments goes, I was listening to an Anthony Robbins CD on relationships and there was a section on giving compliments. He believes that while saying something like "you great in that dress" is a resonable compliment, a much more effective way of phrasing it is "You know what I just LOVE about you is the way you pick out dresses that highlight your beauty, that dress looks great on you". Just thought I'd share that with you.

Suit

[COG]

Suit,

Thanks for the encouragement! I will try a little Anthony Robbins type compliments and see if I find any cheese. My best to you.

COG

[COG]

Suit,

I read your first post in 03. How is your sitch now? Have you given an update post recently that you can refer me to. Hearing other's progress, or lack thereof, is a help.

Thanks,

COG