She is stating that she wants to have weekly meals, common birthdays, and general fun time with the kids at the park. Common rituals.
As a family.
I said no. We are no longer that sort of family, we now do our own thing. Our own rituals. Maybe monthly, maybe only special occasions. The reason I say this is that she is toxic, manipulative, and possibly a narc. It's in my best interest to minimise contact as much as possible.
Early in the week she throw stuff off the table and kicked some bags out of anger. Most likely because she just got a letter from my L. The kids came out running to me upset. I called her out and said it could be considered domestic violence. Because I didn't see it, she saying it didn't happen, it's not DV, and all the other things you can imagine. I know D11 saw it, because she was upset when it happened. But I believe W manipulated her because D11 is now saying she didn't see it. S8 is quite honest and said this is what happened, but it's not something I can pursue further. It doesn't bother me, it's just another thing to gaslight me about. My point was made, I'm going to call her out on that sort of behavior.
I had a great chat with a friend who is divorced and my L. I realise now the manipulation and excuses STBXW will make in order to reduce my access to children. I feel confident I have a good plan and I can always end mediation with let me check with my L.
She is stating that she wants to have weekly meals, common birthdays, and general fun time with the kids at the park. Common rituals. I said no. We are no longer that sort of family, we now do our own thing. Our own rituals. Maybe monthly, maybe only special occasions.
"No, that doesn't work for me."
Originally Posted by tt180
Early in the week she throw stuff off the table and kicked some bags out of anger. Most likely because she just got a letter from my L. The kids came out running to me upset. I called her out and said it could be considered domestic violence.
Originally Posted by tt180
S8 is quite honest and said this is what happened, but it's not something I can pursue further. My point was made, I'm going to call her out on that sort of behavior.
My XW *was* abusive and I won primary custody for a decade. If you feel domestic violence is occurring: (a) Call the police to document the incident even if you can't prove it. You say you and your son said similar things--that has weight! Especially if it happens again. (b) record your son's or any other witnesses' testimony while it's fresh, (c) whatever you do DON'T move out--that isn't best for your littlest one when you could delay the D to protect her and get more custody. If you don't feel domestic violence is occurring then I'd suggest stop criticizing her. Ratcheting up her anger towards you won't lead to the best possible settlement, co-parenting relationship, or parenting behaviors.
I don't criticize her for obvious reasons, but I had to call that one out. It's not the first time she's done it, maybe only 3 times in 13 years. I did hear the bang, so I know something happened. She's just gaslighting me on the details, a host of many items attempting to rile me up.
There are so many factors for moving out besides the Parenting Plan, especially if mediation goes poorly. But if the results are good, I want to, I need to get away for emotional reasons. But yeah, only if the agreement is sound. I go on an overseas vacation with the two older kids in three weeks, so I don't expect any movement until late next month. The trip was planned pre BD, and I have a travel concent letter from her. A welcome respite.
Traveler, another reminder I talk too much. I love that line, it doesn't work for me. I admit I'm a bit fragile the last few days. Not really DBing, not overtly angry, but saying too much, whilst true, but gets her off. I was going out, but I gave up my evening for her because she wanted to see a friend who was moving interstate, and today was the last day to see her. It's some goodwill for what has been a tough week.
At the end of the day, I think we're both stressed and nervous about mediation. She said to me that using a lawyer for financial settlement is a waste of time because she isn't qualified in Family Law. Apparently STBXW didn't check her bio, 20 years experienced! She then tried to explain that her lawyer will demand that she won't send documents because they were already sent to me (*cough* BS). It's quite amusing. I just answer, "send all documents and questions to my lawyer."
The L is contacting STBXW because her view of financial settlement isn't realistic. I've a month of back on forth on stupid nuances of Family Law. It shut her up.
With the upcoming Parenting Plan, she's angry at so many things. At the request of the mediator we emailed family statements, and I called her out that "sharing common rituals" is not on the table; we are separated. Of course I get the response that "I don't want that either, shared birthdays only under duress, after you accused me of DV, I struggle to see our shared humanity."
After Parenting Plan, I'm out of the house. I've been repeatedly told that it doesn't affect any sort of rights.
tough, just keep the L engaged. Sounds like you got a good one. Glad to hear that after the PP you can move out and not have it affect anything. Sounds like you've got a plan here.
I think unfortunately she'll continue to ramp up the nastiness. I think the history between the two of you will be hard for her to let go of as she thinks she can continue to throw hissy fits to get you to do what she'd prefer. Great job on sticking to your guns.
So how is GAL going?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Traveler, another reminder I talk too much. I love that line, it doesn't work for me. I admit I'm a bit fragile the last few days. Not really DBing, not overtly angry, but saying too much, whilst true, but gets her off.
I hear you. It's easy for me to identify good retorts--from the comfort of my chair, with a La Croix in my hand, looking at the sunny garden in my backyard. The less you say in the moment ("Yes or no questions get yes or no answers"), the more time you give yourself to decide what you want after calming down and thinking through the situation.
Originally Posted by tt180
Maybe monthly, maybe only special occasions.
I see. For me, the answer to this was, "No". My XW and I do things together on occasion, but I like that it's voluntary and no parenting agreement forces us to. Christmas typically involves "Christmas Eve" at one home and "Christmas Day" at the other home. Each home gets a bit of it! The kids get two trees and two sets of presents. I could see wanting a combined one if one of you, say, visits extended family for Christmas and that trip is important to your kids. Whatever works for you!
The less you say in the moment ("Yes or no questions get yes or no answers"), the more time you give yourself to decide what you want after calming down and thinking through the situation.
"I am not sure" "I will let you know when I have decided" "That does not work for me" "I need time to think about that" "I like it that way" "I prefer ..." "I will send you an email" "I will text you" "My lawyer will contact you" "I am thinking" "I am busy" "I have something I have to take care of" "I decided..."
Those are right off the top of my head. Wrap your head around those kind of statements.
Even in good relationships, simple and direct works.
Woman "I don't know..what to wear..should I wear jeans or a dress" Man:"Wear the black sexy dress"
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
GAL is pretty good. Out with friends, exercise, time with kids. I force it even if I don't really have plans. Sometimes it's hard because of kids duties, but I'm fine with GAL. This weekend I got more time coming.
Had a good mediation session. I got good advice from my L on phrases to use, good advice from a mate on using time-outs, and because STBXW is transparent, I pre-empted the mediator with "some concerns": bad mouthing my parenting, not agreeing to 50/50, and possibly manipulating D11. It was amazing to see the mediator navigate the emotion and counter her excuses. You could see the anger on her face when we got her to consider one of my parenting proposals after the mediator solved all her objections. Her reality distortion field was on full display with twisting of facts, accusations on me, triangulation... And all my "concerns" did come out as expected. STBXW left after time was up, not even wanting to organise a follow-up session. I had a good chat aftwards, and said I learnt alot on her approach. I said I love the line "what would it take." I know that mediation is supposed to be impartial, but the one I got is an expert in Family Custody. She went so far as to point out that on of STBXW's proposals wasn't fair to the kids.
Interestingly, at one point in the session, STBXW said the environment in our house is toxic and that I need to move out. The mediator asked me:
Is it toxic? I said Nope.
What do you think of her proposal? Don't like it.
What can you offer? She initiated separation, she can move out. (2 second pause) Or lock in a solid parental plan, and I'll move out.
Couldn't help but feel a bit smug there. Of course, lots of excuses on why she can't afford to move out, but the mediator reminded her this isn't a financial discussion.
Anyway, it's nice to finally be in control and see things moving in a path that's right for me. I'm not expecting everything to go my way, she's going to be hard work for the next 20 years. But feeling as upbeat as ever.
It's hard to tell whether you're just venting here in the forum, or if that attitude is being overtly directed at STBXW. Hopefully it's the former. Just my perception but at times you can come across in your posts as a bit arrogant or smug about the situation. I completely get the emotions around the divorce, but make an effort not to allow that to seep into your interactions with her. You want to be calm cool and collected, treating her politely like a cashier, not creating any additional anger or negative feelings. Sure, she may have them anyway due to the situation or built up resentment, but ensure you're not making digs digs at her which will cause more. Even if you don't want to R, less bickering and anger will make the meditation/D process easier and less expensive, and will be better for the kids over the years.
Originally Posted by Traveler
"No, that doesn't work for me."
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
"I am not sure" "I will let you know when I have decided" "That does not work for me" "I need time to think about that" "I like it that way" "I prefer ..." "I will send you an email" "I will text you" "My lawyer will contact you" "I am thinking" "I am busy" "I have something I have to take care of" "I decided..."
Traveler & Ready2Change gave you some great options. Read these over and practice them.
Originally Posted by toughtimes180
I just answer, "send all documents and questions to my lawyer."
Great answer!
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Woman "I don't know..what to wear..should I wear jeans or a dress" Man:"Wear the black sexy dress"
Originally Posted by toughtimes180
One day, I'll get that dress question!
I too look forward to this type of interaction in the future!
Originally Posted by toughtimes180
Had a good mediation session.
Glad the mediation session went well. Sounds like you were well-informed by L, stood up for your rights, and will get an equitable outcome. Stay strong in this regard.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
Venting for sure. In RL, I'm not so confident and don't have an outlet to speak freely like here. No way I'd get away with saying what I say here. Calling out her behaviour is always met with resistance, I only do so if it's particularly bad since it takes resolve to not escalate.
FWIW, I don't make digs at STBXW, I just managed to get away with one today where I felt the circumstance was safe to do so. And yeah, a bit cheeky. I think I'm too open with her. I discussed on email pre-mediation points, and I made the mistake to respond to her point about family time by saying I didn't want family time together. She vented a bit today about it. The mediator pointed out that might be the case now, but maybe not in the future. Privately with the mediator I said it's a boundary issue, and I need to move on without her interfering. I said it would be something like right to refusal. Sure keep the option open, but I'm not obliged to accept. I know my W, any control she can get, she will take. However I feel STBXW is really seeing the reality of separation.
Speaking like this is a way for me to stay positive. Have a look at my earlier posts, lots of uncertainty and worry about her. I'd Iike to think I've faked it to the point that I am actually in a better place. Wasn't the case a month ago, I couldn't sleep or eat.
Anyway, it's still going to be a long hard journey, it won't always go my way, or be easy.
