T - We don't know if Josh's relationship is toxic. It's displaying Toxic traits NOW as all marriages do when they are falling apart. Rewriting of history happens on both sides of the fence. Only time will settle the muddy waters of emotions... but sadly most don't last here long enough for us to truly help them.
Exactly it is clear he doesn't want the marriage to end. Tell me CW how telling him his wife deserves to go out and find good sex is empathetic.
Did you also notice the similarity that in both of these instances...multiple vets agreed with him and both of you disregarded/ defended against MOST of the feedback.
To me, disagreeing isn't an excuse to launch into personal, ad hominem attacks. I journal here to offer and receive support, to share and receive different perspectives. I prefer empathetic advice. I accept 2x4s. I muted LH when he referred to kml and my behavior as "borderline psychopathic." Past ICs have pointed out my tolerance for bad behavior is lower when other people are involved, that if I wouldn't accept a behavior towards a friend or my kids, I shouldn't accept it towards me.
Spouses that want to cheat don’t necessarily need their wives or husbands to give them an excuse. Cheaters make up their own excuses for their infidelity. And yes, even really good spouses get cheated on.
Affairs are typically acts of anger -- he had built up a ton of resentment toward you, and since he's an avoidant, he hadn't given voice to any of it or worked any of it through. I'm not saying that you deserved his resentment, it could be completely irrational, but the point is that it exists. People typically leave relationships for 1 of 2 reasons. Loss of attraction or they do not see a happy future together.
LH, What you say may be right for the average case but this is clearly not a "typical" case since her exH slept with someone else the night before his wedding.
I also find that sometimes your message gets lost because the conversation devolves into an argument such as what happened with T and KML above. Perhaps you can recognize when this happens and employ your active listening and validation skills instead? You make a lot of good points and I would hate for your messages to be lost because of the delivery.
What you say may be right for the average case but this is clearly not a "typical" case since her exH slept with someone else the night before his wedding.
No I agree with the wedding night affair. I was talking more about his third affair when he left for good. I am sticking to my statements as I have done a lot of research on the subject.
Originally Posted by MLCxH
I also find that sometimes your message gets lost because the conversation devolves into an argument such as what happened with T and KML above. Perhaps you can recognize when this happens and employ your active listening and validation skills instead? You make a lot of good points and I would hate for your messages to be lost because of the delivery.
I agree. I have to do better on my delivery. I attend to attack when provoked or annoyed. Message accepted and understood. Bet my exw would back that statement lol.
MLCxH I don't believe most affairs arise out of anger, or any of the other things LH quoted. DIVORCES may arise out of those - because that's what healthy people do if they are unhappy in their marriage and don't think they can fix it - they get divorced. They don't cheat. But choosing to take your dissatisfaction (or anger, or whatever) and have an AFFAIR, and lie to your spouse's face (which LH did by omission for 14 years after he had an affair which he did not disclose to his wife until 14 years after it happened, depriving her of agency in her own life and her own decisions and likely poisoning the marriage in subtle ways long before she finally cheated on him) is a serious character defect at the very least. Sometimes (as in my ex's case) it's an indicator of a dark triad personality disorder as well.
I know many excellent people, here and elsewhere, who did nothing to deserve their spouses cheating except to be a little too trusting. Some cheaters plead to be taken back when their cheating is discovered, because they had no intention of leaving the marriage, they just wanted a little strange on the side.
In a calm demeanor I will say it should be pointed out it was an EA and I never once indicated I was not a flawed human being. I could say my ex is a narcissist and the only thing I did I wrong was fart to loud. No I own my part in the downfall of the marriage. Affairs are symptoms of underlying problems. Those are the facts and they can not be refuted.
What you say may be right for the average case but this is clearly not a "typical" case since her exH slept with someone else the night before his wedding.
No I agree with the wedding night affair. I was talking more about his third affair when he left for good. I am sticking to my statements as I have done a lot of research on the subject.
Statistical research focuses on the mean and median not the outliers.
Having sex with someone else the night before your wedding is usually an indicator of psychological problems. In many such cases, the person finds a reason to be unhappy (aka justify the affair) despite the best efforts of their spouse.
Originally Posted by kml
MLCxH I don't believe most affairs arise out of anger, or any of the other things LH quoted.
I agree with what you are trying to say. Technically, an argument can indeed be made that anger and unhappiness are what lead to affairs in many cases. However, a person can be unhappy or angry despite the best efforts of their spouse. In many cases it may have nothing to do with the spouse and the person just rewrites history to project the cause of anger/unhappiness onto their spouse.
Originally Posted by kml
Sometimes (as in my ex's case) it's an indicator of a dark triad personality disorder as well.
I know many excellent people, here and elsewhere, who did nothing to deserve their spouses cheating except to be a little too trusting.
Correct. How many times have we seen advice being given on this forum that the problems of a WAS are theirs alone and there is not much the LBS can do except focus on their healing?
Originally Posted by LH19
Affairs are symptoms of underlying problems. Those are the facts and they can not be refuted.
Yes, but it can be a problem with the person having the affair with the spouse having only a minor part to play, if at all.
I agree and if you read my post I do say it can be completely irrational but it still exists. Most marriages collapse due to contributions on both sides. Some more then others but a lot stems from unmet needs and expectations. The question becomes what we’re the expectations and where they clearly communicated?
