it makes you feel discouraged from trusting people.
After my divorce from my own narcissistic cheating ex, I realized that I didn’t notice the red flags precisely because I DIDN’T grow up with any family dysfunction. I’d had no idea I should be on the lookout for this stuff.
It’s one reason why it’s useful to read up on narcissism and on sociopathy. We want to see the red flags and pay attention to them in future dating. That doesn’t mean we can’t trust again, but we need to give our trust to people who are worthy of it.
Thanks, Kml. Interestingly I also did not grow up with any family dysfunction. Of course my parents argued, but there was nothing major and they always made up in the end, so I don't know how to deal with issues of broken trust in a marriage or things like separation and divorce. My life experience simply did not prepare me for this.
I do hope, however, that now my son sees the current 'dysfunction' in his family he will be able to take all the necessary lessons to be more resilient in his interactions and relationships in the future.
Any suggestions on a good reading on narcissism and sociopathy? I will probably start a reading list to fill my mat leave with
Steve, I found various polls and estimates on what percent of employees steal, which seems to vary based on sector and type of theft (e.g., food vs. cash). The California Restuarant Association estimates 75%, the American Polygraph Association estimates 50%, the FBI estimates 70%, and the Justice Department estimates 30%. Us "Never Steal" types ARE a minority.
Wow, this data makes me sad, but I guess even if an employee 'forgot to return' some stationery from the office it could also be counted as 'stealing'? This may be why there is a large variety in the percentage.
As far as trusting people, I am one of those that prescribes to trust being something that is earned. I do not bestow trust on others blindly, or without seeing if I can trust them. Unfortunately, most people are not trustworthy. And trusting people too quickly, or without seeing if they are trustworthy, is a recipe for getting burned.
I think I should see trust as something that is earned as well. In hindsight I have given my H trust despite his misbehavior in the past and this has left me burned. Like a fool I just neglected my gut feeling. I know better now not to do the same mistake.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
This goes to show that 85% of people are basically untrustworthy. The numbers can be argued, but the principle cannot be. The fact is that unfortunately we live in a world where you cannot trust MOST people. I can count on one hand the number of people I've met in life that I can truly trust.
Damn this is a disconcerting fact. Yes, I agree, I can count only few people in life I can really trust. Even less now H is untrustworthy.
Another quick update. H told me one morning when he picked up son that he is depressed and feels so down he finds it hard to even get out of bed. I know he has depression, bipolar, etc and I did think he is starting to be in one of his lows from how miserable he looks.
I hope I'm not being mean for thinking he got what he deserved. I know depression is hard and I'm sorry for being insensitive for all of you out there still struggling with depression, but in my particular situation, I feel a bit justified. When he left, I told him that he looks depressed and needs to go back to his doctor. He refused and denied being depressed. H kept saying that the anti depressants don't do anything and he never has time to do the therapies (yeah right, as if not being on drugs has helped at all).
Again, I know I am still technically his wife, but is it bad to think I cannot do anything about this? I told him I'm sorry that he is depressed and I could see that he was. I even went as far as telling him to go to our normal GP clinic and seeing the mental health specialist there, but I feel like it is not my responsibility anymore. It's not my fault he left and became depressed when his AP and life is not what he imagined it to be. I know either way, H (I'm sure his AP too) will blame me for putting pressure with the pregnancy and having to take care of my son as the cause of his depression.
One of my friends even told me to ignore him, that it is for his AP to take care of and he should be whining to her instead. I am completely happy with things being how they are at the moment, but I'm not sure if I should worry about his depression now, especially when it comes to him being depressed around my son.
The book The Sociopath Next Door is a good read and short.
As for his depression - yes, I’d be cautious about your son’s time with him. Maybe you can just offer to him that he can skip or have shorter visitations with son 3 right now when he’s so depressed?
And now that he’s arranged the baby furniture - don’t ask him for other help. Who is there who can come stay with you when the baby comes?
it makes you feel discouraged from trusting people.
After my divorce from my own narcissistic cheating ex, I realized that I didn’t notice the red flags precisely because I DIDN’T grow up with any family dysfunction. I’d had no idea I should be on the lookout for this stuff.
It’s one reason why it’s useful to read up on narcissism and on sociopathy. We want to see the red flags and pay attention to them in future dating. That doesn’t mean we can’t trust again, but we need to give our trust to people who are worthy of it.
Thanks, Kml. Interestingly I also did not grow up with any family dysfunction. Of course my parents argued, but there was nothing major and they always made up in the end, so I don't know how to deal with issues of broken trust in a marriage or things like separation and divorce. My life experience simply did not prepare me for this.
I do hope, however, that now my son sees the current 'dysfunction' in his family he will be able to take all the necessary lessons to be more resilient in his interactions and relationships in the future.
Any suggestions on a good reading on narcissism and sociopathy? I will probably start a reading list to fill my mat leave with
My suggestion would be to find books about how you move forward. Leave the psychology of STBXH behind. Lots of LBSs obsess about the shortcomings of the WAS and it really is a bit misguided in my opinion. My reading was almost exclusively how to be a better person and husband rather than trying to figure out my WW. Of course, for perspective, this was my second go around, the first situation in my MR I was more focused on her than I should have been. Probably in the 2nd too! But much much less so.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
As far as trusting people, I am one of those that prescribes to trust being something that is earned. I do not bestow trust on others blindly, or without seeing if I can trust them. Unfortunately, most people are not trustworthy. And trusting people too quickly, or without seeing if they are trustworthy, is a recipe for getting burned.
I think I should see trust as something that is earned as well. In hindsight I have given my H trust despite his misbehavior in the past and this has left me burned. Like a fool I just neglected my gut feeling. I know better now not to do the same mistake.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
This goes to show that 85% of people are basically untrustworthy. The numbers can be argued, but the principle cannot be. The fact is that unfortunately we live in a world where you cannot trust MOST people. I can count on one hand the number of people I've met in life that I can truly trust.
Damn this is a disconcerting fact. Yes, I agree, I can count only few people in life I can really trust. Even less now H is untrustworthy.
Yes it is a sad fact that most people are not scrupulous just because it is the right thing to do. Travelers %s also probably are more related to criminal stealing. But there are also a lot of people that will happily cheat on their taxes, etc. I had a coworker that would have never even thought of stealing something from a store or things like that. But he was happy to lie to insurance company in order to get lower rates because "insurance companies are evil!". SMH
As far as your H and trusting him. Remember, the biggest predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I found it very helpful when a long-time friend of both mine and my husband’s pointed out to me after our divorce that my ex was a narcissist. Suddenly all the pieces fell into place and it made sense of my entire 24 year marriage. While I agree that it can be a mistake to diagnose a spouse solely based only on their behavior during a midlife crisis, sometimes there were issues present long before. Understanding something like narcissism is important to making better dating choices in the future.
I found it very helpful when a long-time friend of both mine and my husband’s pointed out to me after our divorce that my ex was a narcissist. Suddenly all the pieces fell into place and it made sense of my entire 24 year marriage. While I agree that it can be a mistake to diagnose a spouse solely based only on their behavior during a midlife crisis, sometimes there were issues present long before. Understanding something like narcissism is important to making better dating choices in the future.
Don't disagree, and for AnnKay there will be time for that. My concern for her right now is focusing so much on her husband. Even if he is a narcissist or depressed, it really changes nothing for her now and the things she should be doing. And, in my opinion, it risks her still having too much focus on him.
There will be plenty of time in the future, after divorce OR reconciliation, to learn about personality disorders and how to spot red flags for the future. There is certainly power in that. This Johnny Depp trial has been a lesson in that!
Last edited by SteveLW; 04/28/2202:53 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
True. And I think, AnnKay, while I understand you wanting to facilitate him bonding with his new baby, you need to look after yourself first. Let OW worry about him and his depression. Turn to friends and family for help, and get ALL the help you need - but from people other than H. Don’t rely on H for ANYTHING.
You really need someone to stay with you the first few weeks, someone who can cook and do laundry and entertain your 3 year old. Set things up so that you are well taken care of without needing H for anything.
