Need advice: wife of 10 years wants out

[PeterB]

I don't think he's forgiven me for the SSM either, fully-- we haven't really explored that together in therapy yet, and I think he needs to own his part of why our M was the way it was before the A too. Lots of work in front of us still, IMHO.

It indeed is. Knowing my W, she will never agree to her part, nor apologize for anything. So it will be tough either side of D. But I will of course choose a difficult journey towards HEA rather than D.

I know exactly what you mean about the difference between the PA part in the past and in the present or future. We were in a similar situation, where my H hadn't actually seen the woman for several months when he told me the full truth (that it was a PA; previously he had insisted it was only an EA). I felt that i could forgive him eventually for what had happened in the past but not if it happened again; previously, he could tell himself whatever he wanted about things I didn't know not hurting me, or this idea he had that I didn't/wouldn't really care because I didn't love him that way anymore, etc.-- but for him to go out and sleep with her again knowing how much it would hurt me was a totally different thing that I didn't think I could forgive.

Amazing similarity here. My W would also have to consider the impact on our special needs son that would come from a renewed PA, which both of us know would lead to total animosity. So, if she does take that step then to me it means that she did not think about our son at all.

I feel that if he'd been able to just break it off with her and completely stop cold turkey once he made the decision to stay, it would be easier for me to trust and forgive him, but I do think an A is like a drug and it took him months to finally end it and stop all the lying and finally truly recommit to the M and end his A.

A is definitely a drug that makes you completely lose logical thought. My W flipped in one day (I know because she was affectionate over the phone the previous day and it was genuine). And then it took about 10 more days to come to her decision to abandon whatever we have built for a post-D promise that does not appear to have legs (I think so for various reasons that I have not covered yet). She is trying to build those legs btw but the fantastical nature of how she thinks the post-D future will pan out is just mind-boggling.

It is 100% true that you can't R with someone until the AP is completely out of the picture, your spouse wants to be there, and is committed to the M. That can't happen if they are still in contact at all with the AP and even after it ends it will take time for them to get mentally back in the game (if they even do).

This is so true. In my sitch, I think just the fact that she might have to recommit without even properly pursuing R with OM, as he is long distance, can make her not recommit. She could think *now* that she will in the future repent not trying harder with OM so let me try that and not recommit *now*. Interesting psychological sitch.

And above all-- their head space and commitment to the M, wanting back in, wanting out, total confusion, whatever--that is all their work and you can't control any of it. So that is why I am really urging you to continue the process of letting go of the illusion of control and refocusing that energy on yourself and what matters to you.

Forgiveness is such a great tool isn't it. It is the most effective method we have at our disposal to get past hard matters. Best thing is that every individual has full control over their own actions of forgiveness. Thanks for bringing up the notion of forgiving yourself for your own choices when the choices are inconsistent with past convictions. I think I can already apply that to some past situations in our MR.

One last thought to throw out there-- I do think that there are differences when the WS does not actually leave, though they are threatening to, or carrying on an A.
...
Peter, you might want to read some of the situations of others who were in IHS. This might be why both Steve and I are harping on boundaries vs. control. When you live with someone, that gets tested daily and you have to be both ultra conscious of your own boundaries and whether or not they're being tested or crossed, and self-aware enough to always be checking to see if you're truly drawing boundaries to protect yourself or using the language of boundaries to try to manipulate your spouse's behavior.

@may22, this is such a huge challenge. I get put into difficult situations daily. Handling those without fighting or appearing controlling is why I ask so many questions of a tactical nature in this forum. I think living together also increases her urge to bring up her pov again and again (I don't mind her doing that btw). I was out for a day on Fri for a GAL activity, and she sent me a few long messages that were painful even though I am trying to detach (because of the revisionism). She is actively creating negatives in even overwhelmingly positive experiences and that is hard to digest. My handling is getting better, however.

She keeps calling my efforts fake and forced. Clearly it is not that, because I am genuinely feeling happy about myself and about what I am doing. Several members have called it for what it is - typical WAS behavior because these efforts go against their narrative. But she brings it up again and again. Should I just not respond to it but let the chat continue? Or should I set a boundary here that if she says that again then I will not participate in that chat? Should I let her know when I am exiting that it is because I don't have to hear myself getting called fake repeatedly?

What is IHS btw? Did not see it in the abbreviation page.

I think putting that ultimatum out there will just push them away, or cause them to lie. Much better to follow Steve's path of GAL, PMA, and focusing on yourself and detachment. Unless you really don't want to be married to a cheater-- and then your path should be to figure out how to best protect yourself and your kids in a D.

Agree. I am not going to give ultimatums or even ask her to live separately. Will handle things as they come (from her own decisions).