Need advice: wife of 10 years wants out

[PeterB]

Read this:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2051316#Post2051316


What RobX says is what your attitude should be. I am not saying you should say those words to her at this point in time.

There are also some good posts in that thread. Might be a good idea to read through that thread.

Thanks for this thread. It's really helpful. I love this forum.

[PeterB]

PeterB, Is it possible you expected to be treated better based on how much you did around the house and cared for your son which led to you building up resentment towards her? The often recommended book around here is No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert A. Glover.

Damn, you & @Traveler just put it across in a stark way. There was indeed an expectation that she would notice, see the value of it and treat me better. Lack of that led to heavy resentment inside me. She claims sometimes that she doe see value and then in the next statement completely dismiss and even belittle my efforts, often saying that my son does not need it. Just fyi, two of his medical interventionists have a very different take on me - they call me a 'genius' and a 'superdad' - exact words. I am not bragging given that our son has a long way to go and almost all of the credit goes to him but what they say does make me a bit happy and it is at odds with what my wife thinks. Anyway, none of these matter now. If the R gets saved then perhaps she will see through one day.

It is very likely that her counsellor and friend are validating or even encouraging the affair. How do I deal with this headwind?

You can't. She's going to do what she wants to do and talk to and get validation from those she seeks out, and you can't control it. You have to put that completely out of your mind and start moving in the opposite direction.

Thanks for the reality check. Any thoughts on what does it takes for a WAW to get over the affair drug? I should remind that the affair is long distance at this time.

There's no way to estimate a time. But likely longer than you think. Right now you're hoping the affair will end in three months and then she'll come back. Perhaps you read online the average affair lasts 3-6 months, and you're thinking things will be back to normal by the Summer. (At least I did). Nope. Time to start wrapping your head around the phrase "this is a marathon, not a sprint."

This is getting clearer and clearer. Thanks.

She even tells me to stop trying so hard for her

This is incredibly common in sitches around here. As I bent over backward to be perfect after BD my ExW told me how well I was doing (as if I really was a lousy H before).

Lol, seems to be a darn script. Any pitfalls I should look out for? She started saying some things about her thoughts last night and I didn't respond at all.

Do you think she genuinely thinks I am trying to impress her or is it a defensive thought?

Who knows. Don't spend time trying to figure out what she thinks.

Trying to get there. Oddly liberating. I also realized yesterday that I actually don't understand most of what she says about this sitch. Even if I try to understand, the likely outcome will be that I MISundersand.

Peter you can't make her do anything. She knows a D will affect your son. Right now she doesn't care.

Ding, ding, ding. Either that, or she's convinced herself her leaving "to be happy" will actually be better for your kid. (because it's in her own self-interest)

Wtf! How did you see this so well? On the BD day, she told me exactly that - D will benefit him 'tremendously'. I told her she is out of her mind. She told me she does not talk about our son to her IC at all. That is very convenient for her as well as her IC .

This is great. A strong stance with an even keeled response. Right now you're scared about your marriage and family and acting out of fear, passively letting things happen to you. What if you flipped the switch and started taking an active stance on where you wanted your life to go and acted out of strength? What if you act as if YOU are the catch and you're going to be fine, maybe even happier, regardless of she decides? Perhaps she would start wondering if she were making a big mistake.

Lovely words. I am trying to reflect on my own self worth. I am terribly worried for my son, I'll admit that and somewhat worried about the possibility of future R failures. But in this sitch, I have no doubts about my value. Quite confident of that. I have also admitted by own mistakes and that has given me closure and confidence. So yeah I am going to model myself as being a catch rather than a catcher. Thanks again, for the clarity.

Think hard about my comment above. How can you take a position of strength and actively decide how this is going to go? Instead of asking "what will happen if she...", start thinking what YOU'RE going to do about YOUR life. Reclaim the power. Get in the mindset of she's crazy to be doing this and she's going to lose out on the best thing that ever happened to her. Start feeling like you're the prize and your strong and you're going to have an incredible life either way. I know it's hard at first but really think about this and really try to implement it. The sooner you do the better you'll be.

Amazing words. She will tell me - "I am thinking of going to XXX for a few days, is it okay?". I am inclined to answer - 'do whatever you want'.

[PeterB]

Hi Peter, I wanted to chime in on a few things.

My husband also had a long-distance A. I think that the limerence stage of a long-distance A lasts a lot longer than if they have the opportunity to see each other frequently. My H's affair lasted about two years, followed by about nine months of stopping and then starting talking to her again, then another six months of moping around feeling sorry for himself before I feel like he really rededicated himself to our M. So yes, a marathon, not a sprint.

Wow you have had quite a journey. Did your H have full sexual relationship with the OW? If yes, how did you cope with it? Knowing my W, I am pretty sure she thinks she is in love with her OM. Do you think there is a pattern among WAS in EA/PA that they will keep A going even after showing that they are actually trying to get back into a R with LBS (trying to get best of both worlds while using both AP and LBS).

My advice to you is first of all, spend some time really thinking about what *you* want and what matters to you. What are you okay with, and what aren't you okay with? ...
...
and decide where your boundaries are, what your core values are and how to align your life with your values, and what you need in your life to be healthy and happy.

Does love ever figure anywhere in this equation? Does love ever remain if a spouse cheats on the other? I think going GAL/LR and liberating oneself is great but there seems to be a fundamental contradiction within the goal of LR and the debris of a betrayal.

Next, you need to stop worrying about what she's doing and thinking and just LET IT ALL GO. Some of the things you've said about your wife make you sound kind of controlling, like how to stop her from talking to her IC who you perceive to be threatening to your M, how to make her be more considerate about your son, etc. You control you. That's it. If she decides she wants to end the A and reconcile with you, that is a choice she will need to make on her own, not because you coerced her into it. Just let go and focus on yourself and your son.

This can't be repeated enough - thanks. Btw, I have never wanted her to stop talking to her IC. Soon after BD I did tell her a few times that he is destroying our marriage. I have a friend in his 50s whose wife divorced him. During a fight she revealed to him that her counsellor encouraged her to actively go out and have extramarital affairs - told her to have one-night stands and see how it feels. And she did. So I know what they are capable of. At this time though, I couldn't care less about her counsellor.

As others have said, same with spending time parsing through things she says to you-- it means nothing. She probably is torn and conflicted. That's her job to worry about, not yours.

At times she does directly bring up conflicts in her mind. I avoid responding to them. Is there any such situation where I should tell her something like - "thats your job to worry about, not mine"

I know how you feel because I've been there-- spouse still living in the house, says they want out but not going anywhere, in a long distance affair. In some ways I think this situation is harder because you have to see them every day so you have to be DBing all the time-- no real breaks. They're not making the decision so either you have to either make it for them by kicking them out or moving out yourself, or you can wait it out. It's HARD.

I am not going to move out - hell no. Should I at some point ask her to move out? For example, if I find out that she is soon going to restart PA (that would be the time when she decides to visit the place where OM lives).

Finally, re: respect-- if you respect yourself, people will either respect you back or you won't give a flying F if they don't. Trying to parse out actions that will result in your wife respecting you more is just focusing on her again. Stop trying to do things that are aimed at manipulating her into doing or feeling a certain way. Again-- you have to let go and focus on yourself, not on her. Also, I just have to say-- PEOPLE can't be in healthy relationships with PEOPLE they don't respect. I don't think this is a woman needs to respect a man kind of thing. That feels gross. Partners need to respect each other, period.

Thanks. The state where LBS's actions are never meant to have an effect on the WAS is a special state of being for sure .

[LH19]

Do you think there is a pattern among WAS in EA/PA that they will keep A going even after showing that they are actually trying to get back into a R with LBS (trying to get best of both worlds while using both AP and LBS).

If the A is still going on she is not trying to reconcile. Only going through the motions for whatever ulterior motive she has at the moment.

Does love ever figure anywhere in this equation? Does love ever remain if a spouse cheats on the other?

Love is a choice so yeah it can especially if there is remorse on the cheaters part.

I think going GAL/LR and liberating oneself is great but there seems to be a fundamental contradiction within the goal of LR and the debris of a betrayal.

Can you explain more what you mean here?

This can't be repeated enough - thanks. Btw, I have never wanted her to stop talking to her IC. Soon after BD I did tell her a few times that he is destroying our marriage. I have a friend in his 50s whose wife divorced him. During a fight she revealed to him that her counsellor encouraged her to actively go out and have extramarital affairs - told her to have one-night stands and see how it feels. And she did. So I know what they are capable of. At this time though, I couldn't care less about her counsellor.

Many LBS think a WS going to counseling is good team. Most ICs validate the LBS's narrative to keep their business.

At times she does directly bring up conflicts in her mind. I avoid responding to them. Is there any such situation where I should tell her something like - "thats your job to worry about, not mine"

No! Validate. I understand you feel conflicted.

I am not going to move out - hell no. Should I at some point ask her to move out? For example, if I find out that she is soon going to restart PA (that would be the time when she decides to visit the place where OM lives).

You can ask her to move out but legally she doesn't have to go anywhere. Speak to a lawyer to find out your rights in your area.

[BL42]

PeterB,

My wife took this to the next level. She would install a messaging app when it was safe, message with the OM, and then not only delete the messages, but then uninstalled the messaging app that was used. Do not underestimate the lengths a cheating spouse will go to in order to hide their activities.

Wow. Is your story documented somewhere? How are things going now?

You can read through any poster's situation:
1) Navigate to the user's profile by clicking on their screenname or "View Profile" in the drop down
2) Click on the linked number of "Total Posts"
3) Click on "Threads Created".

For example, here are links to threads created commenters on your sitch:
Threads Created by SteveLW
Threads Created by BL42
Threads Created by LH19
Threads Created by May22
Threads Created by Ready2Change
Threads Created by Traveler
Threads Created by Kind18
Threads Created by ovrrnbw

[BL42]

I see a thread called "boundaries". Are you suggesting I read that?

Yes, definitely read that. Boundaries aren't to control her, rather they're to protect you. If she crosses one of your boundaries you take action to protect yourself. As an example, you may not find it acceptable for her to yell and swear at you (boundary). You can't stop her from yelling and swearing, but you can hang up the phone or walk out of the room if she does (enforcement of boundary).

Should I tell her that if she PAs then I will divorce her (she does not know that I know about OM)?

You don't have to tell her, you can just do it. Action over words. IF you do choose to tell her, than you should stick to it, or we will learn you won't enforce your boundaries.

Fyi: little over a month ago she asked me during one of the discussions - what if I want to have sex with other men? She followed it up with a modesty reclamation by saying that she does not like men and that she is 'extremely' choosy with men. I promptly replied that she should file a divorce asap and then sleep with whoever.

That seems like a pretty good response to me. Quick, decisive and strong. But...remember action over words. Don't let her walk all over you.

[BL42]

Damn, you & @Traveler just put it across in a stark way. There was indeed an expectation that she would notice, see the value of it and treat me better. Lack of that led to heavy resentment inside me. She claims sometimes that she doe see value and then in the next statement completely dismiss and even belittle my efforts, often saying that my son does not need it. Just fyi, two of his medical interventionists have a very different take on me - they call me a 'genius' and a 'superdad' - exact words. I am not bragging given that our son has a long way to go and almost all of the credit goes to him but what they say does make me a bit happy and it is at odds with what my wife thinks. Anyway, none of these matter now. If the R gets saved then perhaps she will see through one day.

Covert contracts can lead to resentment which can build up and cause major problems over time. Work on this aspect of your personality. Learn to be more direction and upfront with your needs. You can be a fantastic father but also be treating your W poorly due to resentment.

She started saying some things about her thoughts last night and I didn't respond at all.

Read the validation thread. Learn to listen, understand and validate her feelings.

If the A is still going on she is not trying to reconcile. Only going through the motions for whatever ulterior motive she has at the moment.

^Yep. If she's having an active affair she's acting like an addict - don't even try to get her to reconile - just work on yourself and be there for your son.

At times she does directly bring up conflicts in her mind. I avoid responding to them. Is there any such situation where I should tell her something like - "thats your job to worry about, not mine"

No! Validate. I understand you feel conflicted.

Right. Your comment comes off as passive aggressive. Learn to validate her feelings/emotions without sounding judgmental.

I am not going to move out - hell no. Should I at some point ask her to move out? For example, if I find out that she is soon going to restart PA (that would be the time when she decides to visit the place where OM lives).

You can ask her to move out but legally she doesn't have to go anywhere. Speak to a lawyer to find out your rights in your area.

You can't control her or make her move out. You can only focus on and improve yourself and your life.

[Traveler]

If you have a boundary that if she sleeps with other men then you will divorce her then you divorce her.

I see a thread called "boundaries". Are you suggesting I read that? Should I tell her that if she PAs then I will divorce her (she does not know that I know about OM)?

No, a boundary controls you. Boundaries are action. A boundary is hanging up when someone yells at you on the phone, or divorcing when someone cheats on you. You don't have to personally adopt either of those boundaries.

What you're describing is talking--threats, ultimatums--with the goal of controlling her. A common indicator of whether it's a boundary or something else is that need to announce it. The boundary thread is good. Read up!

She started saying some things about her thoughts last night and I didn't respond at all.

As BL points out, validation can help you make progress. Talking about her feelings to you is a much better place to be than her giving up on saying anything towards you. I'll applaud biting your tongue when you weren't sure what to say. That at least doesn't move you backwards!

[PeterB]

Many LBS think a WS going to counseling is good team. Most ICs validate the LBS's narrative to keep their business.

I did not get a good feeling about her IC from the start (more than a year ago) when she did not even tell me what she wanted to see IC for. Otoh, when I had an IC in the past, I discussed quite a bit with her. I still trusted her and did not see any reason to inquire further. But she slowly started changing in strange ways (like getting increasingly snappy at me and marked increase in disregard too). After BD, she told me that her counsellor helped her get over me. It's quite possible that she was actively using him to get over me.

At times she does directly bring up conflicts in her mind. I avoid responding to them. Is there any such situation where I should tell her something like - "thats your job to worry about, not mine"

No! Validate. I understand you feel conflicted.

Got it.

Two days ago, she suddenly asked me,
- "Are all your changes going to be permanent?".

Few hours later she initiated a chat where she started talking about why she decided to D. During that she asked me,
- "Are you changing for me or for yourself?"

What am I to make of these two questions, and how should I answer? I went a bit evasive and not sure if I did a good job answering them. But I have a feeling she will pop these questions again.

[PeterB]

For example, here are links to threads created commenters on your sitch:
Threads Created by SteveLW
Threads Created by BL42
Threads Created by LH19
Threads Created by May22
Threads Created by Ready2Change
Threads Created by Traveler
Threads Created by Kind18
Threads Created by ovrrnbw

Thanks for the tip. Starting to read them.