Quote: I don't want to put too much pressure on him, but as we're getting more comfortable (and after he actually does move out of his apartment) I want to ask him to account for his time more.
Hmm...H must have read my mind...
H and I had gotten into a convo a few days back about how affairs start. I told him most are unintentional--usually with an opposite-gender friend or coworker. (He and roommate used to work together.) And that then the pair starts talking more and more, and then the spouse starts telling the friend about all the problems in the M or complaints about the other S. And, that brings about a sense of intimacy with the two, and the PA develops at some point down the road after an emotional connection has been established--usually with the spouse being baffled, thinking it "just happened," and not seeing the steps leading up to it. H was pretty quiet, then said "So that's why you were so worried about [roomate]."
I'm not sure if that's why, but lately, H has been making a point of telling me his whereabouts and what went on that day, and really explaining his interactions with roommate. I realize that, at this point, interactions are still necessary... I'm still uncomfortable with it, but he has told me nothing ever happened between them. And, again, this should all be over soon...
He called me at work to tell me he was driving roommate to the dentist, that she was getting her wisdom teeth pulled, and would be drugged. He was very, very quick to point out that she had called everyone else she knew and had waited until the last minute to ask him when there was no one else--and that it was kind of like not letting someone drive drunk. H said he knew I would be bothered, but he also thought that I, of course, wouldn't want anyone driving impaired. Which is all true... Of course I was bothered, but again, just being silly--he told me everything that was going to happen, was trying to reassure me, so why rant and rave? Doesn't help. She's going away soon, very soon. He's already trying to do what I asked him to.
He also apologized for not being able to cook me chicken like he had planned to. H had wanted to have it ready for me when I got home. (How sweet is that...? ) I told him it was okay. He sounded really bothered by it, but I told him it really was no big deal, I knew he didn't have time since he needed to leave to go get her. He sounded very relieved--like he was really bothered he wouldn't be able to cook for me. He did tell me he would try to come by later, and maybe cook me dinner.
I did notice that he kept referring to roommate as "someone," not using a gender or a name. I think he's doing this to placate me. It's weird, it kind of bugs me (maybe reminds me of how we allude to the woman he had PA with). But, then again, I do react more strongly when he calls her by name. I guess there really is no way for him to win. Probably he picked the lesser of two evils...
H also mentioned he had left me a message while I was away from my desk. I asked if it was sappy, and said "not realy"--sounded pretty hesitant. Told me he had flooded my toilet. Ah, well. My fault. I had a bad headache yesterday, and never got a plunger. I knew it was clogged. I told him it was no big deal, I wasn't mad or anything.
H had brought over laundry to do at my place, but didn't have time since he had to leave soon. So I offered to wash it for him. While I was sorting through the colors (okay, with H, it's piles of "black" and "gray" ), I ran across a female shirt in the mix. I only took a second look at it because I wasn't sure what it was, or I might have missed it altogether. It actually really bothered me. Of course, it belongs to roommate. He had just brought the hamper over, and I know he keeps it in the bathroom. But seeing was like a whole new pain. I just sort of stared at it on the floor for awhile. I couldn't bring myself to wash it. (I know, kind of petty.) I didn't want to just leave it in the hamper, and mix it with the clean clothes. So I finally put it in a plastic bag, and then put it back in the hamper.
My first instinct had actually been to call H and just call H and give him the third degree...but again, no point. This is one of the things that can be just let go. It's not something that, really, means anything. It's just bothersome because it's an in-the-face reminder that she's still there.
When I mentioned earlier that I was moving in 2 1/2 weeks to the new place, H said he was moving then, too (basically, end of the month). He said he was getting impatient for all of this to be over, and I said that I was too. I cannot wait for roommate to be gone...
I listened to the message after I got home. Poor guy actually sounded like he was going to cry at the end of it. He said he was sorry, hoped I wasn't mad, he had just been "stupid" and forgotten the toilet was blocked, there was water all over the floor, and hoped I forgave him. (Sheesh, it was a toilet, no big deal!) I left him a vmail in response, since I knew he was home eating, and told him it was okay, it was really my fault for not taking care of the toilet yesterday, of course I forgave him, and of course I wasn't mad at him.
Does it sound to anybody else like this guy is incredibly eager to please?? I had forgotten how sensitive to stuff like that he was during the first few stages of our R. I remember one time, he accidentally knocked over a small china lamp my late grandmother had given me, and he was reduced to complete tears.
Over the last year, I've just been so grumpy...I think it was a combination of the fact that I couldn't find a job after I graduated, and that I was continually having my sleep interrupted by him coming home in the middle of the night from work. I didn't realize that I was taking it on him--it certainly was unintentional. This is just another example of how H's prick (=defensive) side comes out when he feels attacked.
I see it with his family--they can't understand why he doesn't want to be around them sometimes. But when they're too ctritical, push too hard...H backs off. I'm almost beginning to think there's still some hurt child hiding inside of my H, and that kid is still running away from anything that he sees as attacking him.
This also got me to thinking of something H said a few months back. Right after his brother's got back from Kuwait, and he was felling really shut out because they were mad at him over the whole sitch with me. I was just sitting at the table listening to him, and he was outside stress-smoking. He told me that that was always one of the things he loved about me--how I would just listen to him. At the time, I didn't think much of it, but I'm really seeing the relevance of it now. I think over the last few months, forcing myself to go back to just validating and listening, I was (without realizing it) changing myself back toward the person he fell in love with.
Hi Nevanna - I'm so impressed with how you are handling H, you just rock!
Quote: He told me that that was always one of the things he loved about me--how I would just listen to him. At the time, I didn't think much of it, but I'm really seeing the relevance of it now. I think over the last few months, forcing myself to go back to just validating and listening, I was (without realizing it) changing myself back toward the person he fell in love with.
This is so powerful. NG and I need to remember what we were like 21 yrs ago, ouch Slowly
Quote: NG and I need to remember what we were like 21 yrs ago
Geeze, this was only about 4 years ago, and I'm still having a hard time with it. One of the things I've been trying to do is remember how I felt, and what my mindset towards H was, and see if that helps. I don't want to be exactly the same...but I want to remember what worked with H and what didn't, and then build a new, improved me from that!
Hi Nevanna, wanted to drop by to check on you...I don't know that I have a thing to add, it sounds to me like your H is very much wanting to please you, and you are doing so well with your incredible insights. It's so hard to let go of some of this stuff, isnt it? You were nice to not trash the room mates' shirt....my temper might have gotten the best of me if I came across it.
I have to say I think you're steaming down the right track by trying to remember how you guys were when you were new and building a "new and improved" version of you on that foundation. Theres a lot of wisdom for us all to take to heart in that approach!
Thanks so much for your support and insight in my sitch!!!
H had mentioned he might try to make it back in time to go with me to the gym. So I waited until around 6:30 before I decided I would just go by myself. I mean, it was the dentist, and if he hadn't called me at that point, he was probably hung up with something else. Part of my problem is, a lot of times, I used to just wait on my H. My life revolved too much around him. So, I decided I wanted to go then because I had stuff to do later. And I wanted to do weights instead of waiting for him another day because it would throw off my schedule for the week. Small 180, but a good one for me.
I missed him. It was strangely lonely doing weight training without him around. (Funny, since we've only done it a few times.) But it was still a decent workout, and definately needed. By the end, I was really wanting to cut out early so maybe I could see H sooner. But I kept telling myself I had no idea what his plans were, and I needed to quit hinging everything I did on what he does. Not healthy. So I did a complete workout.
I left the gym around 8:30pm, and of course H had called while I was working out. I must have just missed him, because his message said he was going to the gym alone. He emphasized alone...like it made him kind of sad. Also kind of amusing, now that I think about it, because roommate used to want H to train her at the gym. So I left him a message saying I was just returning his call, and would see him later.
H called me back less than 30 minutes later, said he was stressed out, couldn't do a workout. Apparantally, when he was driving roommate back from the dentist, she was calling all kinds of people to try to get money to get her prescription filled. They haven't paid the rent yet. (It's the 9th!) He was pretty convinced listening to her that she didn't have the money. He told me he couldn't finish his workout, was going to go tell her he needed the money for the rent tomorrow, that it would probably start an argument, and then he would be over at my place.
I was working on the stupid clogged toilet when H called me. (Personal ringtones.) I wanted to answer the phone pretty badly--I have a bad habit of jumping up whenever he calls--but...eeeewww, I was in the middle of plunging a toilet. And I had worked out at the gym...and I wanted to finish this and get a shower before I did anything else. So I just let it ring.
After I got out of the shower (I had almost thought he would be there by then) I checked my vmail. H just asked me to call him back. Although, looking at the time of the call, he should have been there any minute. I returned his call, but he must have been already talking with someone else, so I just let it go.
He came in just a few minutes later, looking pretty stressed. He asked if I was still hungry, and I said I didn't have time for the chicken wings, it was my bedtime. He said it would only take 10 minutes--and obviously he really wanted to do this for me. I wanted to go bed, but I told him to go ahead. He must have been really stressed out, because every time I tried to wander away (to get out of my robe, to finish drying my hair, to put in a DVD he had just asked me to put in) he would ask me to come back over and talk to him. I also think he was eager to show off his cooking technique. Clearly he was more than fishing for compliments here.
He told me he was frustrated with roommate, she had only ever paid him on time once--when she moved in. I validated, told him he could legally kick her out (her name's not on the lease), that she wasn't doing what she was supposed to be doing. He had also gotten a landline for her to use in his name--apparantally, she didn't have the credit--and she hasn't paid that in two months. He said he was getting tired of her attitude, that he just wanted to tell her to get lost, and just drop her completely. He said it hurt him that the two people he had really liked (male and female work friends) just a few months ago had turned out to be not worth it. I told him I was sorry, that must hurt.
H also told me that roommate was getting weird on him. Hmmm...this sounds familiar...he described a certain "best friend" turned short-lived PA during first sep the same way when we reconciled that time. Matter of fact, pretty much every single thing he's said about roommate he said about that "best friend." Makes me nervous about what else he might have to tell me....but that's crazymaking. Gotta keep it out of my head.
So H told me about a couple of incidents he's witnessed about roommate just flying off the handle and going all crazy. One was last night, one the phone, while he was driving her home. Roommate had called her mom, and then the cell had some reception problems, and she made some comment about it being "stupid." Roommate's mom, clearly misunderstanding, said "You don't have to call me stupid." (The volume on the cell is pretty loud.) Well, roommate just flew off, starting sreaming and ranting. Really weirded H out.
Another one he told me about, a couple of months back, involved roommate and a male friend of hers. Roommate's male friend broke up with his gf, a bad break, I guess. So roommate called up male friend's x-gf (H was in the apartment when she made the call) and started making up lies, saying she had slept with the male friend on a certain day, and they had done all of this stuff. H is sure she was lieing--because he had been with her the entire time mentioned, so there was no way it had happened.
H told me he was concerned that she might do something to his stuff. I told H, if he was worried, he should just bring the cats over to my place the next day. He said he would most likely do that.
I knew this girl was a creep. I had a feeling about her from the beginning, some weird vibe. And it wasn't just because she was a female who liked hanging around my H. There are plenty of women I have no problem with. (Although I do have an admitted jealous streak.) But something about her just seemed wrong to me from the very beginning.
I'm beginning to notice that, a lot of times, the reason my H hangs out with people is because at that point, that person or crowd isn't being judgemental or critical in the slightest. I think that's what his stupid thing with roommate was all about--he told me once she had "completely accepted him." He pulls away from people when they get too judgemental (like he's pulled back from his family right now) and gets closer to them when they are more accepting of him (like he's getting closer to me since I've perfected my validating skills).
I can't wait until he's moved. This whole thing just reeks of some sort of weird psuedo-relationship breakup.
H asked me to lay on the couch with him while he watched TV. I used to fall asleep all the time on him, and he told me he missed this. It was late, waaay past my bedtime, but he looked like he really needed it, so I did. I remember drifting off, H watching Friends on DVD (yes, my H is a huge fan of Friends...), him reaching to touch my cheek. It was the episode where Ross and Rachel hook up (the first time ) in the museum. And it was making him feel pretty emotional, I think.
H's phone rang while we were watching TV. I told him he could go in the bedroom and close the door if he didn't want to go outside because it was humid. He said thanks, he appreciated my understanding about this. (I used to get irritated with him, pretty badly.) After he was done, he told me a friend needed an apartment, and he was considering letting the guy stay there, since it would help with the whole breaking the lease thing. (H is more forthcoming with his phone convos now that I offer to let him have his privacy...I don't think he even realizes he's doing this...)
Obviously, that's complicated. Roommate is already leaving. H wouldn't be staying there. He asked my opinion. I said I would be hesitant--asked him how well he knew the guy. He said fairly well, but he was more concerned with who else might live there or come over there. Especially since H wouldn't be there, and he's legally responsible for whatever happens. I told him there are very, very few people I would trust to do that. He seemed thoughtful, asked me if he should ask roommate. I told him that was a bad idea. I was thinking because she's already being forced out...sounds like a bad place to go with a convo with her. But what I really noticed how easily he agreed. How easy it was for me to steer him away from her. Kind of scary.
Much later, H was guiding me to the bedroom. Something akin to me sleepwalking. We used to go through this ritual all the time...me falling asleep on the couch to be close to him, and him putting me in bed. He laughed because I had set it up to sleep on the floor--my back was killing from the whole fixing the toilet thing, and my bed is just way too soft.
There are times I have managed to DB when I was half asleep. Usually this was when H called me, so I had to physically do something (answering the phone), which would, to some degree, wake me up. But I must have been, oh, 90% asleep. That state where you can hear what is going on around you, you can feel some sensation, but you're not exactly able to move/talk.
H was upset. I think his walls are crumbling, and that's why he has been so overly sensitive the last several days. I wish I could say I did a good job validating...but I was mostly asleep. But he was a wreck. Kept going on about how he couldn't believe how bad he had hurt me, how he couldn't believe this mess he was in. He kept saying the same basic thing, over and over--how he felt so bad for hurting me the way he did. I think I was saying "I understand" or "it's okay." Not the best responses...but hey...I was asleep.
Usually I just remind him of how bad he felt, that he was only trying to take care of himself, and that helps. Well, didn't manage that this time.
H said he was going to go to his place, pack all his stuff, borrow his brother's truck, and put it all in his mom's garage today until he could afford storage.
I think he came in and out of the room a few times before he left. I know he took a shower in there somewhere. I also think he may have laid down and taken a short nap with me before he left.
At one point, H had his head on my shoulder, and was massaging my back. He said something about he was pampering me because he wanted me to feel (emotionally) better. H also said he couldn't stop crying. Which...goes to show you how thoroughly gone I was, because I hadn't even noticed it. I remember thinking I told him it was okay, he just needed to get it all out, and he would feel better the next day. I hope I actually managed to say that.
I'm confused on when he actually did leave. I think he came back in again a few times. Not sure. Needless to say...man...did I have a hard time getting up this morning. Not good. I have a hard time waking up if I didn't have sufficient sleep--it's nearly impossible for me. I think I could use a good nap.
Weird pattern I've noticed with H. The nicer I am to him, the more insecure he gets--and, I think, the less worthy he feels of being with me. (He's alluded to that thought several times.) I had thought he was feeling a lot more self-confident in the last couple of years. Actually, I still think that's true. But I'm also fairly certain that this whole stress of us seperating/reconciling has eroded his sense of security with me. I know it has had the same effect on me.
Or...maybe...it's just that the nicer I am to him...the more he can let his guard down/open up/allow himself to feel all of those fears for the first time in a long time. That might actually makes more sense.
H had left that plastic bag with the female (roommate's, I think) shirt on my couch. Ick. I just left it there. Not sure why he took it out of the hamper, but he did. Maybe thought it was mine, I don't know.
I thought of a couple of other things once I did get up this morning. The sliding door to the W/D has, basically, busted. The first thought it my head was that it wasn't broken until H started spending the night--it must have been him pulling to hard or something on it. Then I caught myself. WTF??? What a stupid thing to be thinking! I realized I had done this a lot the last year. Hm. No wonder he wanted away from me. I'm so flippin' passive-agressive it's not funny. Got to watch myself with it...
I need to think of a way to get him more involved in picking up the little messes without being mean like I was before. I mean, he leaves stuff everywhere every time he comes over--dishes, flour from cooking, etc. And it just drives me batty. I feel like I'm constantly following him, picking up/straightening after him. I'm sure this is where a lot of my resentment comes from. I think maybe I need to be more clear on what I do and don't mind doing around the house. It might be that he really just doesn't know.
I'm going to try to call H later on, after I think he might be awake--maybe while I'm out on lunch. I want to tell him I miss him, make sure he's feeling better today.
Quote: it sounds to me like your H is very much wanting to please you
I think so, too. He's naturally got a people-pleasing personality (he's a bartender), but I think, on top if it, the guilt is getting to him. Which, on the one hand, makes me feel better, because it means he accepts responsibility for his part--but, on the other, I don't want him to hurt. I just want to work throught it, and get on with our lives. And have some babies...
Quote: It's so hard to let go of some of this stuff, isnt it?
Yeah, it is. I almost think it's human nature to hold a grudge. I'm sure my anger comes throught pretty clearly at times. But I'm releasing here more than anywhere else. Don't want to punish H anymore--I think he's doing that on his own, without me making things worse.
Quote: You were nice to not trash the room mates' shirt....my temper might have gotten the best of me if I came across it.
Oh, it crossed my mind. I thought it might have been fun to, oh, burn it or rip it shreds. I went through a phase where I did that with stuff from "best friend" (I can't ever seem to bring myself to say xOW...makes it too real...), and in the end, I think it actually fueled my anger. Learning from my own mistakes.
I'm not sure that I have a special insight...I've just spent more time in the last two months being introspective than I have in my entire life. It's been, ironically, a very good experience for me. In the end, I'm thinking the personal rewards and the things I've learned are going to be more valuable than all the heartache. Pain is temporary. What I'm doing are life changes.
H just called me--clearly just woke up. Asked if I had called earlier, wasn't sure if that was a dream. I said no, and he sounded disappointed. I told him I had been going to call him, but I wanted to wait until later, since I wanted to make sure he'd had enough sleep. He said he had slept some at my place before he left, and I said I sort of remember that.
He asked again if I had liked his chicken. (He's really proud of it...) I told him of course I had. We talked about how the hot sauce I picked up had upset his stomach--and mine, too. He said the chicken usually tasted even better, but I didn't have any garlic salt and the sauce I decided to try hadn't been very good.
H told me something else roommate had done. I swear, this girl is such a creep...I'm refraining from the "I told you so" that's swimming around in my head. I knew she would hang herself, given enough time. H told me she actually took a bunch of his quarters out of the bowl he keeps in the kitchen. $20 or $30 worth, he thought, from looking at it. He said he didn't mind her taking some for a soda or to do laundry, but this bugged him.
I validated, said that was a violation, told him at least he was already changing the situation, and maybe he could hide the change bowl. He said it bugged him because he collected the change as his "treat" money--for a DVD or a dinner out or something, that when it built up enough, he got something nice. (Isn't that a nice idea?) That he didn't care if she needed some for an emergency, but this was over the line (since he's fairly certain she used it to fill her pain killers).
He then told me it ticked him off that she didn't budget properly. (Hm. Used to be a complaint I made about H. Not that I found this enjoyable by any means, just an interesting aspect.) That now he owed a late fee on the rent, and he was going to make her pay for it--that when she gets paid on Friday, he was going to insist she go to the bank and cash it immediately and hand over the money so he can pay rent.
He told me how much he appreciated me bailing him out a month ago. I told him he caught me at a time when I had a little extra cash (from selling my car). He asked what I did with the remainder, and I said I paid off a credit card that I hated. That I had thought of maybe saving it, but I just wanted that card gone.
H also told me that he felt bad because he knew he owed me money. Some still from the rent money I had given him, and some for his half of the cell phone bill. That he wanted to pay me, but couldn't since roommate wasn't paying him her part of things. That it ticked him off her irresponsibility makes him look bad--with me, and is messing up his credit. He said at least I was understanding.
H then commented he had woken up in a good mood, and was now irritated. I told him it was okay, he clearly needed to vent. That he could come see me, and that would help him feel better, since we had lunch plans. He said he would be over here soon.
That's okay. He's just really stressed out right now. I feel like, at this point, I'm making up for all the times he felt like I cut him off emotionally.
For example, right now, how good would it feel to you to have your H's undivided attention? Him holding your hand and making you feel good? None of the WAH BS that's going on right now. I bet you wouldn't be able to get enough of that right now. I think that's how my H feels. I'm just trying to help him feel secure again.
It's sort of like letting the gas tank run too low--the yellow light comes on, and you have to put twice as much gas in the car versus if you had just put gas in it when it was only half empty. Make sense?
) I told him it was okay. He sounded really bothered by it, but I told him it really was no big deal, I knew he didn't have time since he needed to leave to go get her. He sounded very relieved--like he was really bothered he wouldn't be able to cook for me. He did tell me he would try to come by later, and maybe cook me dinner.
Probably he picked the lesser of two evils...
Ah, well. My fault. I had a bad headache yesterday, and never got a plunger. I knew it was clogged. I told him it was no big deal, I wasn't mad or anything.
He said he was sorry, hoped I wasn't mad, he had just been "stupid" and forgotten the toilet was blocked, there was water all over the floor, and hoped I forgave him. (Sheesh, it was a toilet, no big deal!) I left him a vmail in response, since I knew he was home eating, and told him it was okay, it was really my fault for not taking care of the toilet yesterday, of course I forgave him, and of course I wasn't mad at him.