Sounds like my parents though at 83 my mom recently got over it.
Hah, good to know there is still hope for them…they are in the beginning of their 70’ties now…
Originally Posted by Elbereth
This statement shows the love you still have for him. So much. You want to be fair, have no conflict, be loving and supportive, and have a positive relationship especially for the kids. You are even taking some of the blame. It’s so admirable. It really is. But the hard truth is that what YOU want really doesn’t matter to him. There is no WE anymore. And it’s not your fault. You did the right things and tried. He left you. He’s leaving you. Why are you sharing in that ‘blame’ for what he didn’t do? I know it feels harsh and against your normal way, but LH19 is right, you need to stick to the I statements and “I” mindset. You can still do all the things you feel you need to do that allow yourself to heal, not get in the way of his healing, and work well together to ensure the kids are supported. But you are going to have to do it alone. And you have to do it for yourself regardless of what he does. You can’t control or influence what he does. All you can do is come to the table ready with your ‘part’ and hope he does the same. And your words also need to not include “we” or “us”, otherwise you are still trying to control what you can’t control. All you can say is what you plan to do or what expectations you have. There is no agreement to make. He already disregarded the agreement of your marriage. What makes you think you can make another one with someone with this mindset?
The ugly truth is that once you establish boundaries and show that you are no longer emotionally available to them (to lean on or manipulate), there will most likely be conflict. They are used to us putting their needs first, or caring what they want, or whatever. They will either fight back to keep things the way they were (that benefited them), or they will move on and get it from someone else. But if what they want is not emotionally healthy as a partner, it’s okay that they go get it elsewhere…because it is never going to be good enough for us in this current situation. Dropping the rope is another boundary of sorts. You are pretty much showing in your actions that you are no longer there for them. In all ways. In all ways except the bare minimum of business needed to support your kids. There will be conflict. Expect it. At least at first. Try to remember that this connection that you are holding onto right now is not one you want. It feels familiar, and it holds history, and there is still so much love in it in your heart. But its not something real. It’s not a connection with someone who loves you and cares about your needs. It’s a connection with someone that has shown you by their actions that they care only about their own needs.El
This has helped me enormously these past 2 days. It is not that I didn’t know what to do (when 3 years in you know what to do, but you forget to apply when you are sucked back in, which happened the past 10 weeks). They are a master in tricking us they are at the final end of their crisis, whilst in reality he has made a lot of progress but he still has a very long way to go. But I wanted to thank you to remind me what had to be done!
Originally Posted by Elbereth
Just like me, Eagle will take these suggested steps when she is comfortable and ready. El
And I finally am…
It all started on Wednesday with the walk we had together to finalize some things.
MLC H is a monster to the kids when it comes to their school results. This has taken huge proportions during his MLC. Due to the fact that he never did what he had to to in school, and was a huge rebellion, he projects everything he did wrong on them. (while this cannot be compared at all)
The kids are all smart, but like most teenagers they hate to study, so their grades are not fantastic. The problem is, in the last 10 weeks I have seen tremendous progress in his “new me”, but when his “bad me” comes out, it's a thousand times worse than it already was. Fortunately, the moments when you see G last much longer than the moments when you see MLC H, but I can't and may not allow this anymore. He really traumatizes the children and myself. This was the case 2 weeks ago, but the bomb also burst on Wednesday evening again.
El, you're right it's much easier to separate MLC H from H, this way it all makes more sense.
During the walk, MLC H started talking about S17 and its studies. (he is lacking commitment in his senior year and could lose it if he doesn’t change attitude towards learning) He wanted to impose an appropriate punishment, which I certainly followed, but a little later he actually wanted to take away almost his entire social life, so I said he went too far. He is very destructive with everything and I wanted to show him that you sometimes get a lot further with constructive things (and certainly life lessons).
Result: MONSTER came out big time
I then told him all the things I had originally written in my thread the beginning of this week, but then as you all proposed, in the “ME” or “I” form.
In the evening it escalated further when S14 had received a some bad school results. MLC H had an outburst, a rage which was really frightening, he involved all 3 of the kids again, telling them thing a F could never say to his children without consequences.
The kids are fed up with it, I’m fed up with it.
MLC H has to go. I will also cut all contact. Yesterday, after many messages from his part, I finally admitted to talk one last time. I had warned him that if he made one reproach I would leave immediately. And I also told him that I wasn't going to shut my mouth anymore, that I was going to honestly say my full thoughts, if he didn't want to hear it, then there would be no conversation. I'm doing this because I wanted to and because he made huge progress in his MLC. He know very well what is wrong with him, he simply doesn’t want to do much about it yet. I simply pushed the buttons one last time.
When I arrived, manipulation, he just wanted to talk about the children. That we have different opinions about the upbringing of the children and that this is where the problem lies. He knows that he has traumas from the past that he has to deal with and that he is fully engaged in, but he thinks that this has nothing to do with our relationship, with his way of parenting, with his work, etc. I just told him everything I wanted to say in a gentle manner. About the fact that everything is linked to each other. That he needs professional help for all his problems (alcohol, anger, sex, social, professional, etc)
I also told him that I no longer want contact, that I do not intervene in the relationship with the children anymore, that he is on his own as from today and that I don't want to see him anymore, the pain he has caused has left too many traces/tracks (don’t know how you say this in English). He replied then and said he didn’t want to be involved anymore in the education of the children and that I had to do it on my own then, I told him, OK, if that is what you want. This is your choice.
So we made the necessary arrangements: The contract for the house has been signed and the house will be put up for sale at the end of this month. MLC H will leave to go to ex-OW2 on Saturday to have some closing with her in a polite way if she doesn’t want him back. (he left there with a huge fight) He thought I should know because he wouldn't lie anymore about the fact he went to ex-OW2, I wished him good luck. Then he will go to a Yoga/meditation retreat for 1 week and then he will return to a rented house nearby our current home. The first weeks we agreed to have no contact at all, neither with me nor with the kids, after that only for matters that concern the children. He would then possibly want to start the custody arrangement as agreed in the D settlement (1 weekend every 2 weeks), we'll see how this progresses.
Kids currently don’t want to see him. Told them this is between you and your F. I’m here to guide you, not to take this difficult decision for you. You are all old enough.
The rate that he must pay monthly (maintenance money for the kids, which was already agreed) and half of the fixed costs for the current home were confirmed.
Now it Is my time. I've done everything in my power to be there for him but I don't want to do this anymore. I want to move on with my life and finally had the strength to have this confrontation and yes, it turned out in conflict but I managed to stand my ground. I know this is the only way with him, he is a master manipulator and no contact is the best option in this case.
And last but not least, he lost his job this week...He has partly manipulated it to achieve this but will probably have a serious impact again, but luckily this is no longer my problem.
FWIW, it looks like MLC H needed space and time, and took it. He monstered about the kids’ education and homework (yes, projection of his past), and now wants nothing to do with the kids’ education. Such confusion and flip flopping. I feel for the kids. Of course, they are fed up with it/him.
Well done standing your ground.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
They are a master in tricking us they are at the final end of their crisis, whilst in reality he has made a lot of progress but he still has a very long way to go.
So what made you think it was the end of the crisis? What progress has he made? When and of the crisis ends what do you think will happen?
I think that’s a great question LH. I do think MLC is real and that people can and sometimes do come out the other side of it. However, I do not think that coming out of it necessarily means they will want their former spouse and their “old life” back. In fact, I would venture a guess that most probably do not. I think this is one of the reasons we suggest to people that they move forward with making a new life for themselves regardless of what their WAS decides to do.
You’ve done all you can do for him Eagle. Now it IS your time to move forward. Sky’s the limit!! (((HUGS)))
You make a great point Dejavu. Think about Godzilla in the old movies walking through and destroying the cities. If he were to stop and think hmmmm maybe I shouldn’t have done that? How would he go about repairing those cities he destroyed. Odds are he would just walk back into the ocean and disappear underwater.
Eagle one of the DB mantras IMO that can get people stuck is believe nothing they say and half of what they do. Your Exh has been honest with you. Believe what he is telling you right now. Can how he feels change? Absolutely! IMO it isn’t going to be anytime soon.
Maybe start to think if you want to stand or move forward. DNJ is a great example of a stander who leads a fulfilling life. If you want to move forward heal and then start dating again Dejavu is a great example to follow. There are lots of different ways to go about your life but right now IMO you need strong boundaries with your exh. Remember the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again expecting a different result.
Just remember that no matter what you are going to be fine.
So what made you think it was the end of the crisis? What progress has he made? When and of the crisis ends what do you think will happen?
LH, I'm 3 years in now with an MLC'er who has been living @ home for about 2 years in total. Believe me, there are huge differences, but at the end, it doesn't matter anymore now.
What will happen when he is out, I would hope he could be a good F again for his children, and to be able to act in a normal way towards me, don't we all want that at the end?
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I do think MLC is real and that people can and sometimes do come out the other side of it. However, I do not think that coming out of it necessarily means they will want their former spouse and their “old life” back. In fact, I would venture a guess that most probably do not. I think this is one of the reasons we suggest to people that they move forward with making a new life for themselves regardless of what their WAS decides to do.
You’ve done all you can do for him Eagle. Now it IS your time to move forward. Sky’s the limit!! (((HUGS)))
Deja, Thanks! I know that most spouses don't necessarily want their old life back and TBH, if he even wanted it back, I'm doubting now if I would still want a second life with him.
As said above, my biggest concern are the children and for them I would wish a normal F, that's all.
Yes, I have done all I could. Most important now is getting my ducks in a row, we'll see it from there.
Originally Posted by LH19
Maybe start to think if you want to stand or move forward. DNJ is a great example of a stander who leads a fulfilling life. If you want to move forward heal and then start dating again Dejavu is a great example to follow. There are lots of different ways to go about your life but right now IMO you need strong boundaries with your exh. Remember the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again expecting a different result.
Just remember that no matter what you are going to be fine.
Definitely true. I know I will be OK. Thanks.
I believe I have made clear boundaries now, as per my feedback above, wouldn't you think? I off course need to stick to them now...
In the end the biggest difference between DnJ and DejaVu is the fact that DeJaVu would not want her ExH back and is dating, DnJ is not.
The answer in regards to my future will reveal itself in the months/years to come. I honestly wouldn't know, time will tell. My work now is making sure I follow the advice and simply move forward making a new life for myself.
Need some advice on the agreed boundaries I made with MLC H last week. We agreed he would not have contact for a few weeks with the kids or with me.
He also told the kids explicitely the night before he left he would not interfere anymore with their education since he can’t coop with it and he even deleted the school app from his mobile.
As expected he started sending texts again to each of them separately today. Asking how they are doing, how school results are. (Their is the guilt again I suspect…)
Do I intervene, or is this not a boundary I can come in between? Kids have answered briefly since they feel they need to do this as a form of respect.
If he is reaching out to your children with a sincere interest on how they are doing and asking about their grades this is what you want. This is 100 percent what he should be doing. As long as he is not attacking them with their responses then you should stay out of it. I can’t tell you how many women I have gone out on dates with who’s ex’s don’t even know what schools their kids go to or grades they are in.
Kudos to your kids for responding out of respect. Remember that though he is breaking up the family he is still their father.
I get the sense that you struggle with boundaries so feel free to run your boundaries by the board.
